The real reason World of Warcraft does better....(this is about Swtor)

[Malckiah]

I had played WOW for about 4 years and and stopped right before Swtor came out. I have been playing Swtor since before launch. There is no doubt that in every way Swtor is a much better game than wow.... The graphics are better, the questing and story lines are far superior, the fighting and combat is exponentially better than wow's, and really on every front Swtor wins...... except in population of players.

There is no doubt this is entirely because of Swtor poor marketing. I mean Star Wars has no lack of fan base. For some time now WOW has been preparing for their next expansion. And everyone knows it, eventhose who want nothing to do with it know about it. They advertise like crazy everywhere with high quality commercials and advertisement and top notch artwork. This is why they win. I can't stand wow, but they are smart.

Swtor on the other hand.... every time I mention Swtor to people, the majority of them have never heard of it. When they have a commercial... it usually sucks. When they advertise, its with a lower level artwork. When they do trailers (with the exception of the 2 CGI trailers prelaunch) ...they are low quality trailers that are not very exciting.

 

So why does this matter?..... Better advertising pulls more people. More people means more money coming in for better updates and upgrades to the future of this game.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Malckiah

[Oyranos]

why 2 similar topics? lol

 

If you check 2 lines bellow yours, there is the same topic...

[Malckiah]

why 2 similar topics? lol

 

If you check 2 lines bellow yours, there is the same topic...

 

lol....wow! That is funny... I had not even been on the forums and didn't see it. I just clicked on to add my thread without looking.

[Exiled-Phoenix]

Perhaps they are waiting on the new star wars movie to ride on the hype and pull new players in.

[Lotharofxev]

The graphics are better, the questing and story lines are far superior, the fighting and combat is exponentially better than wow's, and really on every front Swtor wins...

 

Let's say for a moment I agree with your assessment - then why does WoW pull in 6x the revenue of SWTOR?

[Anysao]

Let's say for a moment I agree with your assessment - then why does WoW pull in 6x the revenue of SWTOR?

Asia.

[Turajin]

For some time now WOW has been preparing for their next expansion. And everyone knows it, eventhose who want nothing to do with it know about it.

Everyone minus one...I haven't heard of a WoW expansion until you just brought it up in this post.

 

They advertise like crazy everywhere with high quality commercials and advertisement and top notch artwork.

Really? Where? The last time I saw a WoW comercial was when they had Mr.T, van Damme and Shattner do their "I am a whatever on WoW, what are you?" kind of ads, and that is something like, hmm... 3or 4 years ago? Way before SWTOR even started? Really, I mean it - I haven't seen a WoW ad in years.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Turajin

[Lotharofxev]

/\

 

1. It's not just about you.

 

2. Youtube, Facebook, television, they are advertising the expansion like crazy.

[Terro_Fett]

They do market like crazy, just not that much through traditional advertising. Yes there are commercials for Warlords of Draenor, but what they do is market like crazy through their brands. Wether your a Starcraft, Diablo, or WoW player, your always given incentive to bridge over and play their other franchises through goodies.

 

Why doesn't Bioware/EA do the same? Dragon Age: Inquisition is coming out, where is our free SWTOR pet, or empty armor set, etc from pre-ordering Dragon Age? Blizz does cross brand marketing all the time and its very successful.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Terro_Fett

[kittyluv]

Let's say for a moment I agree with your assessment - then why does WoW pull in 6x the revenue of SWTOR?

Its called a 'comfort zone.' And age.

Age Wow has a huge headstart on Stwor, not many people like to break the comfort zone, like wearing an old pair of shoes or jeans, they become your favorite, even when they start falling apart , its difficult to let go and put on the new ones. Mop was huge flop, and for me, simply was a taste of things to come, they are catering to a target group that I dont care to be a part of, people openly cheat and are never reprimanded for it, bot forums are full of people who recieved nothing more than a 72 hour ban. And I dont think Wow is doing as well as people think it is. Do you guys know what the population of a locked server is on wow? I do About 4000 people, how do I get that number, realm census, I did it on Illidan when it was locked, medium is under 1000, full about 1500-2000, low is very bad, usually under 100. To further their grand illusion of a healthy population, they had to implement cross realm zones, now Illidan WAS my home realm, if the game was doing so well, then why were we crossed with 23 other realms?

Now in an effort to drag out content, they removed flying from their new expansion, after marketing their new expansion's collector edition game with a gift of a 'flying mount.' And so many people so quick to put down other games on wow forums, they havent noticed that their beloved Wow is the ONLY game to sell a max level character for real life money, for a paltry 60$ you can bypass all content and speedrun right to the end

[Tsillah]

The real reason WoW does better than ANY MMO on the market was and still is the same and predates SWTOR.

 

WoW was the game that had the right kind of financial backing and commitment from a company like Blizzard at the right time. When WoW was released MMOs were still kinda new and certainly for the larger public and so people got on the bandwagon.

 

It was about the timing and the type of commitment behind it. EA will never provide such a commitment. It's just not how they work. NcSoft same story. They have had success in Asia and limited success here with Aion and GW but also nowhere near WoW and the list goes on.

 

SWTOR could've been bigger than it is though. If they hadn't made those horrible mistakes in the first year of launch and had listened more to what players wanted instead of thinking they knew what was going to work, they might've adapted more quickly.

 

Take the current situation. Next year the new Star Wars movie will come out. A company like Blizzard would've already started working that in the sense of getting ready and investing into that possible future of the game getting more popularity. By investing in it they would also help that future become real. My expectation from EA in this is however that they will invest just the minimum to at least give people the idea that they are preparing for it and first wait and see if the game gets more popular and then decide after that they want to invest more into the game. What happens then is that a lot of players will feel the game is stagnant and leave again. EA will probably be relieved they hadn't invested too much yet because "it would've been for nothing", not realising that they might've kept those customers if they had invested and before the movie comes out.

 

That's at least how I see the difference. BW made a game that I enjoy but I often feel the limits of EA budgets in the game itself and that is not always nice. As much as I don't like WoW, I did always think Blizzard at least has a better way of doing business than EA in that respect.

[Lotharofxev]

And I dont think Wow is doing as well as people think it is

 

Even Lord Artemis would disagree with that assessment.

 

For your perusal:

 

2013 - # 1 in market share (36%), 1 BILLION in revenues

 

Source: http://www.gamespot.com/articles/wow-was-the-top-subscription-mmo-in-2013-star-wars/1100-6421191/

 

2014 - # 4 in market share (11%) 728 Million in revenues.

 

Source: http://www.joystiq.com/2014/10/23/league-of-legends-tops-mmo-revenue-list-hearthstone-no-10/

 

However, there's this from another source:

 

WORLD OF WARCRAFT USER BASE GROWS AHEAD OF NOVEMBER EXPANSION

 

Combined with the official cancellation of the long-awaited Titan, which was expected to ascend to the MMO throne once World of Warcraft reached obscurity, Activision has been under pressure to release a next generation role-playing title. In anticipation of its fifth expansion, Warlords of Draenor, the publisher reported a 600,000 increase in its subscriber base, which is expected to reach 8.2 million by the end of the year. Meanwhile, the publisher is gearing up for the imminent release of Heroes of the Storm, challenging the current dominance of League of Legends (Riot Games/Tencent) and Dota2 (Valve) in the MOBA space.

 

http://www.superdataresearch.com/blog/us-digital-games-market/

[Kousa]

I want to start off by saying that I'm a diehard fan of SWTOR. I've been posting on this forum anticipating the game since around 2009 and I'm a proud owner of the Collector's Edition, which is currently sitting on a shelf behind me. But SWTOR isn't even close to a perfect game and I wouldn't call it a better game than WoW. SWTOR is currently lacking severely in several departments.

 

Such as:

 

1. Loading screens, loading screens and more loading screens. I understand that they are required but they make the world feel disconnected. World of Warcraft feels like a huge, open world and thats because loading screens only occur during continent transitions.

 

2. UI and no support for third-party modifications. World of Warcraft is known for it's extensive addon community with thousands of developers helping out to make the game a more enjoyable and streamlined experience. Even just small things such as AH addons improve the general quality of life in World of Warcraft. SWTOR on the other hand has no support for third party addons.

 

3. Lack of content. I haven't kept up to date with SWTOR but from my understanding it has been a year without any new PVE content. It's no way to treat a game standing on its last leg. And on release people finished the content within a few weeks with nothing holding them to the game. Many quality of life features such as a flashpoint finder wasn't available on release, something that had been cemented in the MMO market as a must have feature since its introduction in World of Warcraft during Wrath of the Lich King expansion, years before SWTOR released.

 

There are many reasons why World of Warcraft is a superior game. People shouldn't go around spouting opinions as if they were facts.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Kousa

[TravelersWay]

Actually, if you read the current holiday issue of PC Gamer, they have an article that kinda goes into some detail on why gained the popularity that it did.

 

The reason why no MMO has ever been able to surpass WoW is that Blizzard hit the market with the right design at the right time. If WoW were to be released at any other point of history, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

 

What most people fail to realize is that if you take WoW out of the equation, SWTOR has been the most popular MMO out on the market since the move to Free to Play. Currently I would say that only ESO might have a larger subscriber base at this point, but don't expect that to remain that way in the coming year.

 

There are many reasons why World of Warcraft is a superior game. People shouldn't go around spouting opinions as if they were facts.

Perhaps a hefty dose of your own advice is just what you need at the moment.

Edited November 9, 2014 by TravelersWay

[agamemnon-]

Everyone minus one...I haven't heard of a WoW expansion until you just brought it up in this post.

 

 

Really? Where? The last time I saw a WoW comercial was when they had Mr.T, van Damme and Shattner do their "I am a whatever on WoW, what are you?" kind of ads, and that is something like, hmm... 3or 4 years ago? Way before SWTOR even started? Really, I mean it - I haven't seen a WoW ad in years.

 

 

I'm just going to come out and say it; you're just being argumentative. The latest expansion has been advertised on TV, Facebook. YouTube, magazines, on demand cable, among other venues. You'd have to be a hermit living on Machu Pichu to have to heard of the latest expansion.

[Projawa]

WoW is still the biggest due to inertia. Like a big container ship.

 

And their presence in Asia. If you compare apples with apples, WoW isn't leaps and bounds above TOR in NA/EU.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Projawa

[Oyranos]

Where is " get 12 months of subscription in swtor and get dragon age 3 free" Blizz did that with diablo 3

 

That is why they kept so many customers for so long after the kung fu panda.

 

Another truth is... EA had 42% increasement in their revenue, now they eat sea food in hono looloo and dancing in their new porsche ... While, we....crying about it.

 

And maybe the mathematical fault of swtor revenue decreasent, translates in investing more quality content into the game... Because as many say, swtor didnt have actual content after oricon and if there is no money, there is no honey.

Edited November 9, 2014 by Oyranos

[Lord_of_Mu]

They do market like crazy, just not that much through traditional advertising. Yes there are commercials for Warlords of Draenor, but what they do is market like crazy through their brands. Wether your a Starcraft, Diablo, or WoW player, your always given incentive to bridge over and play their other franchises through goodies.

 

Why doesn't Bioware/EA do the same? Dragon Age: Inquisition is coming out, where is our free SWTOR pet, or empty armor set, etc from pre-ordering Dragon Age? Blizz does cross brand marketing all the time and its very successful.

 

It's a two way split with cross brand marketing. Don't take this as all out opposition. I'm all for the addition of perks, packs and other goodies being added to SWTOR and from SWTOR to other EA products. But with everything I'm sure some people would complain about how it's ruining Star Wars because some guy just ran past wearing N7 armor with his companion dressed like Flemeth.

 

Of course that would be a cool idea in itself..

[CmdrShpd]

It's a two way split with cross brand marketing. Don't take this as all out opposition. I'm all for the addition of perks, packs and other goodies being added to SWTOR and from SWTOR to other EA products. But with everything I'm sure some people would complain about how it's ruining Star Wars because some guy just ran past wearing N7 armor with his companion dressed like Flemeth.

 

Of course that would be a cool idea in itself..

 

I wonder (and this is pure speculation on my part) if Bioware/EA were forced to sign agreements with Lucas Arts preventing them from doing various cross-brand marketing and promotions that could conceivably dilute the "Star Wars Brand" when they acquired the rights to make SWTOR.

[Lord_of_Mu]

I wonder (and this is pure speculation on my part) if Bioware/EA were forced to sign agreements with Lucas Arts preventing them from doing various cross-brand marketing and promotions that could conceivably dilute the "Star Wars Brand" when they acquired the rights to make SWTOR.

 

That is entirely both possible and believable.

[Silverspar]

Let's say for a moment I agree with your assessment - then why does WoW pull in 6x the revenue of SWTOR?

 

Obviously you know little of the actual mentality of the MMO player. Waiting on cut scenes and exposition is not fun, especially when you know the quest is to go kill X rat mob type in the end. What kills SWTOR, is it's not really an MMO, it's a single player game with a few optional multiplayer features. This, sadly, is the problem with many modern MMOs, including modern WoW, where the addition of other players is now considered a distant option that doesn't even have to be thought about anymore.

 

Next, players stick with WoW because that's what everyone else does. Regardless of what you believe, people will stick around when people they know are playing that said game. Why do you think there are so many people that play COD when lots point to better games over COD? It isn't because of some mysterious better quality system, it's because more people play it thus people gravitate towards it.

[Jeweledleah]

Everyone minus one...I haven't heard of a WoW expansion until you just brought it up in this post.

 

 

Really? Where? The last time I saw a WoW comercial was when they had Mr.T, van Damme and Shattner do their "I am a whatever on WoW, what are you?" kind of ads, and that is something like, hmm... 3or 4 years ago? Way before SWTOR even started? Really, I mean it - I haven't seen a WoW ad in years.

 

SO during our daily talk mentioned WOD on Spike and couple of other channels. we don't have a TV at home but where he works they do and they are pretty regular right now.

 

now, don't quote me on that - but they may even do super bowl spots... still top of my head - Aubrey Plaza who basically plays herself in everything but parks and recreations is pretty popular - was even more so when they shot her commercial

 

now. I don't think advertising is the only reason. but it certainly does contribute. marketing is at least 50% of any business success.

 

edited to add.. I have already preordered DAI but if I haven't and was offered an ability to dress myself or one of my companions as Flemeth? that may have pushed me over into preorder all on its own

Edited November 10, 2014 by Jeweledleah

[Amantino]

People play WoW because it's a genuinly better game. I could just end my post there, but I'll back up my statement for you WoW-haters.

 

Like Kousa wrote earlier; Loading screens. Even on a SSD, they are slow. Engine in general is bad. Even on a high-end system, the game runs poorly. 16man raid, warzone, Ilum open world pvp - if you've tried it you know what I'm talking about.

 

No support for addons. Sure, the default UI customization is okay, but overall it lacks ways to track useful info, such as buffs, debuffs and proccs. And again like Kousa wrote, no Qualify of Life addons such as for GTN.

 

The argument regarding "Lack of content" I'm going to disagree on. WoW has had the same raid for the past year. I had several reasons for leaving SWTOR for WoW - lack of content was not one of them.

 

Something mentioned several times here, is that people stick to WoW because they are used to it, and because it has a larger udb. In some way this is true, but SWTOR once had a HUGE playerbase as well, and majority left the game because it simply wasn't good enough. I think this is just an excuse people are using to trick themselves.

 

And some other important features. Armory, cross-server and friends-list are things I'm going to mention here. But swtor has a friends list, you say? Barely. It's impossible to keep track of friends in that game.

 

And yes, SWTOR are beating WoW in some areas. Anything questing related, check. Leveling different classes for story lines - amazing. Only thing worth mentioning from WoW here are heirlooms and RAF - both things I think SWTOR should've copied. Why the birthright weapons doesn't scale with level is a mystery to me. But overall SWTOR wins by miles in this area. It's just such a shame it's far from enough.

 

And just for the record, I'm a SWTOR fanboy. I'm just realistic and not blind.

[Prototypemind]

Marketing is definitely a major factor. I have never touched WoW, but I paid attention to the new WoD commercials because I did enjoy WC III back in the day and the spots were entertaining. The only TOR advertising I see is Google Ads generated mess when I'm on other sites.

 

One year--2010 I believe--Pepsi decided not to advertise on TV before the Super Bowl, assuming that since everyone knows both Pepsi and Coke, people would pretty much buy what they were going to buy; Pepsi took a major hit that year, and Coke sales were way up because they advertised as normal. Everyone may know the MMO scene, but advertising helps. I have no desire to play a console MMO, but the commercials for Destiny made me want to take a look.

 

Perhaps what was mentioned earlier about Lucas Arts/Disney having some say in advertising makes sense. EA markets the hell out of pretty much anything they touch, including major TV spots, but I've never seen a TOR commercial on terrestrial media. It's more than a little strange.

[Jeweledleah]

WoW is unplayable without addons. default UI is awful - yes awful. to me that's a huge minus. and I say that as someone who plays WoW - having to go over my list every single time a patch is released hoping that its been updated, hoping developers are still working on it is just... to me more annoying than dealing with loading screens.

 

we ARE btw, getting a way to track buffs and debuffs in 3.0 some of the quality of life improvements are still not finished, but they are incoming and they are being added much MUCH faster than in WoW precisely because blizzard relies too much on addon makers (it took them what.. 6 years? 7 before they implemented in game raid frames that weren't useless?). and periodically realizing that "oops, we allowed something to be done that wasn't intended and then figuring out how to break said addons without breaking other stuff... and then breaking other stuff anyways.

 

cross server and cross realm zones is one of the reasons i don't play as regularly as I used to. it makes it less fun for me. if TOR ever implements cross server for anything other than instanced pvp? chances are i'll let my subscription lapse and only come back to experience content patches temporarily.

 

I find that friend's list with real ID is too intrusive, while old fashioned friends list works the same way as SWTOR, except due to cross realm it becomes effectively useless. its either real ID or nothing :/ at least in other games - account wide friends lists don't display your real life name you have on that account, but only your account handle. so while idea is nice, implementation leaves much to be desired IMO. GW2, Neverwinter and ESO to name a few - do that better. including options to play in offline status - aka hidden. something WoW doesn't offer.

 

I will concede armory. armory is a huge advantage. being able to acess your characters, AH, etc from outside of the game is a great feature.

 

that said... TOR had a fairly big player base, but they left for variety of reasons. one of them being - there's a glut of MMO's on a market and there's nothing really holding them in a game that's still finding its footing. when WoW was released - there wasn't much other MMO game in town - and none of casual variety. by the time competition started showing up? they were established firmly enough to gain a momentum of "I've been playing it for a while, I have friends here, characters I'm invested in, etc" hell - characters I've had since 2006 are one of the primary reasons I keep checking up on the game.

 

objectively. WoW while having advantages and doing some things VERY well (and say what you will - but that game aged very well and music is 100% awesome, they are also getting much MUCH better at in game cutscenes) - also has PLENTY of issues.