The Revenge of the Class Story ^_^

[ashikagaoda]

Hi Team SWTOR!

 

I have been thinking about some of the responses to my return to SWTOR thread over the last few days and some of the stuff I read across the web about the reluctance on the part of Bioware/EA to develop more Class Story for SWTOR.

 

Now, I wrote that I made the decision to resubscribe based on the news that Bioware was adding to the Class Story content after some years of neglect. It was the single most advertised feature of SWTOR. That it would KOTOR on into infinity and also be a great MMO experience too.

 

When SWTOR was first released it was an incredibly rich single player experience but not such a great MMO experience. Since then the development team has done an amazing job at strengthening the group experience of SWTOR in both PvP and PvE but the most defining trait of the game, Class Story, has suffered.

 

The main refrain I have read from both players and developers has along the lines of "Class story was great but... way at this point it is way too expensive and time consuming for the current development and Bioware/EA will never go for something like it again."

 

They are not wrong.

 

I am not here to argue with that statement. While the VO and cinematic cutscenes don't break the bank, as James Ohlen himself pointed out during a 2013 GDC talk: "Don't be scared about adding voice over and cool cinematic content," he advised his audience, "but do be careful about adding lots of choice with consequence because that adds to QA cost and development cost and makes it hard to design everything."

 

The writing, VO and cinematic cutscene costs are not insurmountable challenges but the complexity of designing, implementing and testing 8 separate class stories would be extremely demanding on the development team and costly.

 

But SWTOR was sold to us on the strength of dramatic Bioware-type storytelling. How do we find ourselves going back to the heart of what makes SWTOR a unique MMO? While looking up the ongoing issues surrounding Class Story I think stumbled across this recommendation:

 

Reddit post by CommunistLibertarian:

 

Alternatively, an effective means of bringing back "class stories" may be to give all the classes the same goal but to vary the means by which that mission is carried out.

 

For example - and this is just off-the-cuff - Act V starts with Darth Marr informing the Imperial player-character than his Isotope-5 research lab has been captured. The Warrior bashes in the front door - straightforward assault mission. The Inquisitor has to find and use a Rakata transporter to bypass outer security. The Agent uses a backdoor to sneak inside and assassinate the Republic commander. The Bounty Hunter slices local terminals to turn the base security against the Republic troops and then jet-packs onto the roof.

 

Ultimately, all four classes get their own flavor, but the overall plot can remain the same. That is, the story varies based on the class type and not based on past story choices...I think that would add some variety and flavor to the classes without requiring an excessive amount of additional work and/or finagling with past story-choices.

 

 

... And I mulled over his recommendation and realized that he'd hit on something... Watch the SWTOR - 'Deceived' Cinematic Trailer again:

 

STAR WARS™: The Old Republic™ - 'Deceived' Cinematic Trailer

 

What do you notice?

 

That's right. Several classes from the Empire, striving towards a shared goal of sacking the Jedi temple but with each class going about this goal in very different ways. It's ironic how closely the trailer captures the Reddit poster's recommendation; the Sith Warrior bashes in the door, the Bounty Hunter uses her technology to evade and destroy guards, etcetera.

 

This strategy could work. Bioware could build several mission areas shared among the various Class Stories and then allow the players to experience these missions from the unique prospective of their class. This reduces the pressure to generate 8 unique class stories, addressing in part some of the concerns James Ohlen and Co. have about the problem of ever expanding complexity with the original Class Stories.

 

I hope that Shadows of Revan is a step in this direction and eventually, to new entire chapters for the iconic Class Stories of SWTOR. If release SWTOR was a new hope, I want 2015 to be Revenge of the SWTOR and I still believe that story - and the continuation of Class Story will play an important part in this resurgence.

 

Go Team SWTOR! <3

Edited November 5, 2014 by ashikagaoda

[hadoken]

Interesting use of the term "ironic" though that's normal on forums I guess

[Jadescythe]

I think you are reading way too much into 1 class specific mission being added. You are setting your expectations high, just like people who got excited for the Ilum revamp or the Ranked Warzones improvements (removal).

 

I'm glad you're excited, but I'd suggest lowering your expectations drastically.

[ashikagaoda]

I think you are reading way too much into 1 class specific mission being added. You are setting your expectations high, just like people who got excited for the Ilum revamp or the Ranked Warzones improvements (removal).

 

I'm glad you're excited, but I'd suggest lowering your expectations drastically.

 

I hear what you're saying Jade. I haven't jumped the shark. I am well aware that we shouldn't be reading too much into the return of a Class Mission for each of the iconic classes. I just am hoping the development team will slowly strengthen the Class Story component of SWTOR.

 

The above post was just to illustrate how the development team might sidestep some of the challenges that come with implementing Class Story again. Another approach that might be worth checking would be to start offering additional Class Stories through the Cartel Market.

 

I am sure many thousands of SWTOR players would snap it up if reasonably priced. Players could then consume additional Class Story and pay for the development of even more Story moving forward. It would certainly be better money spent for me than on yet another Stronghold decoration or costume outfit.

Edited November 5, 2014 by ashikagaoda

[ashikagaoda]

Interesting use of the term "ironic" though that's normal on forums I guess

 

You got me there. Uncanny may have been better way of describing the connection between the Reddit post and the trailer. ^_^

[hadoken]

I think you are reading way too much into 1 class specific mission being added. You are setting your expectations high, just like people who got excited for the Ilum revamp or the Ranked Warzones improvements (removal).

 

I'm glad you're excited, but I'd suggest lowering your expectations drastically.

 

Yea I'm not even sold on the idea that this is a 'test case' for future improvements, but more of a bone to throw at people who want class story in the hopes it shuts them up

[ashikagaoda]

Yea I'm not even sold on the idea that this is a 'test case' for future improvements, but more of a bone to throw at people who want class story in the hopes it shuts them up

 

I disagree. I think that Class Mission packs would be a great (and substantial) addition to the Cartel Market. I can see that possibly happening in the future. A great bulk of the player base signed up for the KOTOR-like storytelling and I know that they would just snap that stuff up.

[Jadescythe]

I disagree. I think that Class Mission packs would be a great (and substantial) addition to the Cartel Market. I can see that possibly happening in the future. A great bulk of the player base signed up for the KOTOR-like storytelling and I know that they would just snap that stuff up.

 

You can't make anything that isn't cosmetic and not give it to subscribers for free without having a serious riot on your hands. Class stories, FPs, Warzones, Ops, etc. all have to be included or I would bet on at least 75% of the subscriber player base quitting.

[ashikagaoda]

You can't make anything that isn't cosmetic and not give it to subscribers for free without having a serious riot on your hands. Class stories, FPs, Warzones, Ops, etc. all have to be included or I would bet on at least 75% of the subscriber player base quitting.

 

You have a great point there. However, the Class Stories have always been crafted as an individual experience and I think that makes an important difference when it comes to offering them as 'optional' feature through the Cartel Market. FPs, Warzones and Operations have always been a group experience and I believe group content should be a part of the larger MMO experience and not locked off to players behind a paywall unless it was part of a major content expansion like RotHC or SoR.

 

I think I would be OK to buy Class Missions for my individual characters - if that would give Bioware the incentive to bring them back.

Edited November 5, 2014 by ashikagaoda

[hadoken]

I disagree. I think that Class Mission packs would be a great (and substantial) addition to the Cartel Market. I can see that possibly happening in the future. A great bulk of the player base signed up for the KOTOR-like storytelling and I know that they would just snap that stuff up.

 

You disagree with what? I was stating what I feel are the devs motivations for the one class story in the expac, nothing more. Whether we want more or not (and I personally do) is kind of irrelevant. They've been firm about 'no more class story' for years now. Them bending a tiny bit isn't a sign that they have any intention of doing a 180.

[Msonder]

I disagree. I think that Class Mission packs would be a great (and substantial) addition to the Cartel Market. I can see that possibly happening in the future. A great bulk of the player base signed up for the KOTOR-like storytelling and I know that they would just snap that stuff up.

 

Better idea is to put in in as part of an expansion and charge $20. Cash shops should only ever be for cosmetic stuff.

[ashikagaoda]

Better idea is to put in in as part of an expansion and charge $20. Cash shops should only ever be for cosmetic stuff.

 

I agree with you 100% about the cash shop just offering cosmetic items but the truth of the matter is that the SWTOR cash shop has branched out from costumes and decorations to a whole range of game influencing items such as new companions etcetera.

 

If Class Mission packs are what it takes to bring them back, I would be much more inclined to buy that than to get another pretty dress for my characters. If those expansions added a small chapter of Class Story for all the iconic classes then I would be willing to wait and pay the expansion price. Waiting for 1 or 2 Class Missions per 20 USD expansion would not be an ideal scenario.

 

Plus, if they start offering Class Missions through the Cartel Market, the developers can quickly gauge the market demand for that kind of content and continue offering Class Missions through the cash shop if there is a great demand for them or spend their resources elsewhere if the market rejects it.

[Galdos]

I agree with you 100% about the cash shop just offering cosmetic items but the truth of the matter is that the SWTOR cash shop has branched out from costumes and decorations to a whole range of game influencing items such as new companions etcetera.

 

If Class Mission packs are what it takes to bring them back, I would be much more inclined to buy that than to get another pretty dress for my characters. If those expansions added a small chapter of Class Story for all the iconic classes then I would be willing to wait and pay the expansion price. Waiting for 1 or 2 Class Missions per 20 USD expansion would not be an ideal scenario.

 

Plus, if they start offering Class Missions through the Cartel Market, the developers can quickly gauge the market demand for that kind of content and continue offering Class Missions through the cash shop if there is a great demand for them or spend their resources elsewhere if the market rejects it.

 

What the hell no. Thats awful. The ENTIRE SELLING POINT of the Old Republic was that they want to do something unique and focus heavily on story. They argued by making a game with a subscription they can make a game that keeps adding more content allowing. I mean I can barely even think of a good reply to this Im so horrified at the suggestion.

 

 

The Cosmetic Shop should be just cosmetic items. Period. End of story. Should not even be up for debate. Quality of life items are already a bad idea but people just dont find it worth arguring.

 

Class content should be saved for expansions. Im still annoyed Bioware decided to make Section X content you had to buy

[Essence_of_Light]

The minute they add class stories to the Cartel Market, is the minute I cancel my subscription.

 

I don't care what the reason, they should never add class stories to the cartel market, period.

Edited November 6, 2014 by Essence_of_Light

[ashikagaoda]

The ENTIRE SELLING POINT of the Old Republic was that they want to do something unique and focus heavily on story.

 

1) Yes. But because of the logistics and cost of developing Class Story they haven't touched it since release. By adding Class Stories to the Cartel Market, they would actually fund MORE Class Story with the extra revenue.

 

They argued by making a game with a subscription they can make a game that keeps adding more content allowing. I mean I can barely even think of a good reply to this Im so horrified at the suggestion.

 

2) Yes. But that was back in 2012 before the game went Free To Play and lost hundreds of thousands of subs. While they have updated the game, it is now 2014 and there has not been any talk of a substantial PvE expansion to the game (on the scale of a WoW expansion) and Class Story is always the FIRST to go on the chopping block when developing new content.

 

The Cosmetic Shop should be just cosmetic items. Period. End of story. Should not even be up for debate. Quality of life items are already a bad idea but people just dont find it worth arguring.

 

3) The Cosmetic Shop stopped being a Cosmetic Shop a long, long time ago. I would rather buy a Class Story than another stupid costume (<3 to everyone that loves costumes)

 

Class content should be saved for expansions. Im still annoyed Bioware decided to make Section X content you had to buy

 

4) See point 2.

 

Having that said, I wish the conditions where Bioware wouldn't think twice about adding additional Class Story to the game but sadly they haven't for a very long time. And please note that I do think Class Missions are separate from Class Chapters - and additional Chapters should only be offered through expansions as you suggested, not through the Cash Shop.

Edited November 6, 2014 by ashikagaoda

[ashikagaoda]

The minute they add class stories to the Cartel Market, is the minute I cancel my subscription.

 

I don't care what the reason, they should never add class stories to the cartel market, period.

 

Hey Essence! You're gold man, nothing but <3. Lot's of respect for your work on the New Player forum! I understand your reservations at the thought of adding Class Missions to the Cash Shop but I would happily take that option as opposed to simply having no Class Missions at all, ever again.

 

And again, I would support individual Class Missions on the Cash Shop as long as they are reasonably priced (again, to simply fund their development again) and not Chapters, which should be made available through digital expansions that could be charged at 20 USD a go.

[LeJarC]

I disagree. I think that Class Mission packs would be a great (and substantial) addition to the Cartel Market. I can see that possibly happening in the future. A great bulk of the player base signed up for the KOTOR-like storytelling and I know that they would just snap that stuff up.

They already tried that with the Encrypted datacubes, major fail and the response from the player base was downright poison...so not gonna happen

[ashikagaoda]

They already tried that with the Encrypted datacubes, major fail and the response from the player base was downright poison...so not gonna happen

 

That's what happens when you're a returning player, you miss out on a good chunk of an MMO's post release history! If that's true then that's very unfortunate. But from what I read up on the ED, it was mostly a waste of $. It a series of Quest Flagger that came with a short cutscene, that's not what I would call a Class Mission. In my mind, a Class Mission is a robust quest that helps advance your iconic character's lore in the setting of KOTOR.

 

I'm just pitching solutions over here, I would like Bioware to begin adding Class Mission/Story back to SWTOR but as long as Bioware cannot find a way to monetize Class Story again, it's not going to happen again for SWTOR. And to me, that's even more unfortunate than seeing CM's added to the CS, seeing as how this game was originally sold on the continuation of Bioware's KOTOR-like storytelling.

[hadoken]

I'm just pitching solutions over here

 

You should also probably realize all of this has been talked to death already and nothing has changed.

 

Well except this teaser of one class mission that none of us have actually seen yet.

[ashikagaoda]

You should also probably realize all of this has been talked to death already and nothing has changed.

 

Well except this teaser of one class mission that none of us have actually seen yet.

 

You are right hadoken. I'm sure it's been talked endlessly on these forums ever since Class Story development came to a grinding halt in the later parts of 2012. But the mere fact that it still gets brought up time and time again by loyal SWTOR veterans just goes to show that there is a good chunk of the player base that would lose their minds if Bioware began to support Class Story again.

 

Let's hope this Class Mission is a sign of better times for one of the strongest (and most neglected) features of SWTOR.

[Pathlight-]

The minute they add class stories to the Cartel Market, is the minute I cancel my subscription.

 

I don't care what the reason, they should never add class stories to the cartel market, period.

 

this.

[ashikagaoda]

this.

 

So between no more Class Stories or buying a Class Mission or two every now and then on the Cash Shop, you'd choose the former? I honestly don't get it. I would think anyway to return Class Story for the game would be a cause for celebration among a lot of SWTOR players.

[hadoken]

So between no more Class Stories or buying a Class Mission or two every now and then on the Cash Shop, you'd choose the former? I honestly don't get it. I would think anyway to return Class Story for the game would be a cause for celebration among a lot of SWTOR players.

 

You're not wrong that tons of people would pay for it. Look at the cartel packs, people have a ton of money they don't know what to do with