Nov_fr Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I still don't get why developpers always make changes that badly alter PvE experience for PvP reasons, especially when it is so easy to fix: If a cleaned DoT belong to a player, CD is set to 12s. If a cleaned DoT belong to a MOB, CD is set to 4s, as usual. The same logic can be applied to interrupts. That way, PvE players are happy, PvP players are happy too. With current plans of blindly increasing CDs, developpers just make PvE players unhappy. And PvP haters, will hate PvP even more. Not speaking it requires more work to alter old content because of thoses useless changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LyraineAlei Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 That... Doesn't sound that bad of a solution. Wish I knew programming to know if it would be difficult/easy to implement. But I like that solution. I rarely use my interrupt because of the long cooldown anyway, and I should use it more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipwright Posted November 1, 2014 Share Posted November 1, 2014 I still don't get why developpers always make changes that badly alter PvE experience for PvP reasons, especially when it is so easy to fix: If a cleaned DoT belong to a player, CD is set to 12s. If a cleaned DoT belong to a MOB, CD is set to 4s, as usual. The same logic can be applied to interrupts. That way, PvE players are happy, PvP players are happy too. With current plans of blindly increasing CDs, developpers just make PvE players unhappy. And PvP haters, will hate PvP even more. Not speaking it requires more work to alter old content because of thoses useless changes. I agree and yet I seriously doubt they will do this. The CD increase really turns me off. The interrupt CD increase is gonna make pve messy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sentientomega Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) Too right, BW's mutilating swtor to death by upping the CD on interrupts, ESPECIALLY without increasing the lockout for NPCs' interrupted ability. Edited November 9, 2014 by sentientomega Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JumperPenn Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I'm sure it is just easier to make sweeping changes than to make then work on way on players or in pvp especially as the game ages/grows. I agree with you and I generally hate how pvp keeps forcing changes to pve that almost always suck for pve. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tachenko_Yuri Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 That... Doesn't sound that bad of a solution. Wish I knew programming to know if it would be difficult/easy to implement. But I like that solution. I rarely use my interrupt because of the long cooldown anyway, and I should use it more. Commander zaoron, bothrium beast, and draxus's corrupter adds like this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cyrusramsey Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 /signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 If a cleaned DoT belong to a player, CD is set to 12s. If a cleaned DoT belong to a MOB, CD is set to 4s, as usual. And what happens if I am in a Open World fight and I have both a dot from a player and a dot from a mob on me? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shipwright Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 Too right, BW's mutilating swtor to death by upping the CD on interrupts, ESPECIALLY without increasing the lockout for NPCs' interrupted ability. I agree and yet doubt they will do this. Are they going to adjust every npc that has these "must interrupt" abilities so they cannot just cast until it goes off? I don't think so. Interrupts are so integral; this change is mind boggling. The claim is that they feel players are just interrupting everything and they want to make you choose what you interrupt? What??? As it is now, I must choose what to interrupt. So now we are basically required to eat Terminate, Ambush, Ravage, Nightmare....and a whole list of other heavy hitters? I was not really too upset about the DPS loss players will get in 3.0, but double increase on interrupts CD and slower killing because of less dps....I can see myself just deciding not do some things as I am not a masochist. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DawnAskham Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 (edited) I agree and yet doubt they will do this. Are they going to adjust every npc that has these "must interrupt" abilities so they cannot just cast until it goes off? I don't think so. Interrupts are so integral; this change is mind boggling. The claim is that they feel players are just interrupting everything and they want to make you choose what you interrupt? What??? As it is now, I must choose what to interrupt. So now we are basically required to eat Terminate, Ambush, Ravage, Nightmare....and a whole list of other heavy hitters? I was not really too upset about the DPS loss players will get in 3.0, but double increase on interrupts CD and slower killing because of less dps....I can see myself just deciding not do some things as I am not a masochist. To be fair, we really don't know what their design model going forward will look like nor what changes, if any, they will push through against old content. On one hand, they have done things like increase the cool down for interrupts with comments saying they want players to choose which abilities to interrupt along with stating they are reducing power because players do too much damage. On the other, they have used words like 'slog' to describe current leveling content, and then stated they were going to adjust all of that content such that mobs died faster. If I had to guess, I think they will handle the old leveling content through blanket nerfs that effectively make it a joke, make minimal adjustments to current level 55 content to keep some or all of it reasonably relevant at 60, and create new content with their new ability designs in mind. Post 55, I'd expect to see few mobs that spam heavy ability after heavy ability in solo content (in group it is a valid design principle to force groups to coordinate interrupt rotations). I would expect to see mob that have both heavy abilities and a 'meh' filler type abilities that will require players to prioritize and interrupt the correct ability, with the timers on the mob's ability use lining up with the new interrupt ability cool downs. Even so, I feel this change along with some of the others (tank taunts) being done for 'PVP reasons" is annoying and that PVP specific changes should have been made to certain abilities rather than these sledge hammer to the entire game type changes. Edited November 9, 2014 by DawnAskham Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BobFredJohn Posted November 9, 2014 Share Posted November 9, 2014 I haven't heard about this but, from what OP is saying sounds like I wont be happy. As it is I find it annoying when enemies throw out multiple dots (the adds during beast of vodal kresh in atheiss spring to mind, who cause dots when they hit and sometimes hit more than 1 person) then people complain they don't all get cleanse (due to my CD). Increasing cleanse CD is ridiculous. As for interrupt CD increase....The main reason I chose watchman spec for my sent was it offered interrupt CD reduction to 6 seconds, meaning I no longer had to rely on pugs to interrupt the important stuff, with my sent I can do most of it myself . Please don't take that away, I really don't want to go back to relying on other people to know what they are doing.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CmdrShpd Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 To be fair, we really don't know what their design model going forward will look like nor what changes, if any, they will push through against old content. On one hand, they have done things like increase the cool down for interrupts with comments saying they want players to choose which abilities to interrupt along with stating they are reducing power because players do too much damage. On the other, they have used words like 'slog' to describe current leveling content, and then stated they were going to adjust all of that content such that mobs died faster. If I had to guess, I think they will handle the old leveling content through blanket nerfs that effectively make it a joke, make minimal adjustments to current level 55 content to keep some or all of it reasonably relevant at 60, and create new content with their new ability designs in mind. Post 55, I'd expect to see few mobs that spam heavy ability after heavy ability in solo content (in group it is a valid design principle to force groups to coordinate interrupt rotations). I would expect to see mob that have both heavy abilities and a 'meh' filler type abilities that will require players to prioritize and interrupt the correct ability, with the timers on the mob's ability use lining up with the new interrupt ability cool downs. Even so, I feel this change along with some of the others (tank taunts) being done for 'PVP reasons" is annoying and that PVP specific changes should have been made to certain abilities rather than these sledge hammer to the entire game type changes. Like you, I presume that BW will be making some across-the-board changes that will prevent the increased cooldowns on cleanses and interrupts from become game-breaking in various situations. That said, I would be very interested in hearing more about what these changes specifically are...before 3.0 comes out! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KyaniteD Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 They want us to die more often and spend more credits on repairs, which already increase with item rating, anyway. But seriously, I wonder how much more I'll be willing to take. More story is appealing in the short run, but the announced changes that affect the long run don't make me excited at all. Even now people already have trouble with the interrupt-heavy story bosses. Putting interrupt on an extended CD might make it even worse. I'm not concerned about new content being balanced to the changes, I'm more concerned how it will affect existing content that was designed around the current/original set of abilities. Also in groups, particularly pugs, interrupts are hard to coordinate, so that often enough interrupts of 2 or 3 people go on CD interrupting the same ability. With increased CD the loss of crucial interrupts is even worse. (It would help if Interrupts would only work when there is something to interrupt. That would only make the first successful interrupt go on CD and save the interrupts of the rest of the group for the next round.) Of course it could all turn out to be for the better, but I won't believe until I see it. If this is really yet another change aiming at improving PvP at the expense of PvE, maybe it's time for me to take the hint. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordarn Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 (edited) PvP is the deciding factor for anything in the game: meaning pvpers will whine about something because its "OP" so the devs change it and it totally botches pve so the pvers whine about it, but the devs do nothing so the pvers just learn to work around it. Edited November 10, 2014 by Cordarn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 PvP is the deciding factor for anything in the game: meaning pvpers will whine about something because its "OP" so the devs change it and it totally botches pve so the pvers whine about it, but the devs do nothing so the pvers just learn to work around it. This the single most one-sided and biased comment I have ever seen. I can start making a rather long list of things that where changed for PvE, starting with Orbital Strike nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Transairion Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 This the single most one-sided and biased comment I have ever seen. I can start making a rather long list of things that where changed for PvE, starting with Orbital Strike nerf. Let me just say 3.0 is shaping up to have a lot of changes that "benefit" PvP a whole lot more than PvE. Basically all the Commando changes in the cards right now, such as Hammer Shot not being able to heal and "more mobility" (not even an issue in PvE), removal of AOE heals (which they added in 2.0, didn't they?) to gain a single target.... you're insane if you think this helps me as a PvEr. It honestly doesn't help PvPers much either, since Commando's are still going to be cannonfodder regardless due to horrible stealth detection and defensive cooldowns. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cordarn Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 This the single most one-sided and biased comment I have ever seen. I can start making a rather long list of things that where changed for PvE, starting with Orbital Strike nerf. Go ahead, make the list for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt-Snake Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I still don't get why developpers always make changes that badly alter PvE experience for PvP reasons, especially when it is so easy to fix: If a cleaned DoT belong to a player, CD is set to 12s. If a cleaned DoT belong to a MOB, CD is set to 4s, as usual. The same logic can be applied to interrupts. That way, PvE players are happy, PvP players are happy too. With current plans of blindly increasing CDs, developpers just make PvE players unhappy. And PvP haters, will hate PvP even more. Not speaking it requires more work to alter old content because of thoses useless changes. /Signed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LordArtemis Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 I am a bit disappointed to see the interrupts have longer cooldowns...i always felt they were too long to begin with. But, using grenades could fill the gap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaronV Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 its a good idea, but sadly bioware developers have made clear time and again that they will NOT seperate pvp & pve behaviour. If only they would do that we wouldnt have so much idiotic class changes that negatively affect pve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaronV Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 BTW I wanted to point out that sorcs/sages have had 12s CDs for quite a long time now and are able to get by fine, though the 4s CDs of classes like operatives are so convenient... At the end of the day I don't know how big a deal it will be. Guess we will know soon enough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaronV Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 Like you, I presume that BW will be making some across-the-board changes that will prevent the increased cooldowns on cleanses and interrupts from become game-breaking in various situations. That said, I would be very interested in hearing more about what these changes specifically are...before 3.0 comes out! I expect they will. The question remains why do they want to go through so much trouble? If only they would separate pvp & pve combat design it would be much simpler in the long run. If they implement the cleanse changes without rebalancing, Nefra NiM would be impossible without every player having a self cleanse; and most ops will be very much harder as they would have to have very strict interrupt queues with almost no room for error. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryuku-sama Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 BTW I wanted to point out that sorcs/sages have had 12s CDs for quite a long time now and are able to get by fine, though the 4s CDs of classes like operatives are so convenient... At the end of the day I don't know how big a deal it will be. Guess we will know soon enough 12s is good. 8s is perfect. 6s is even better (and only AP PT and Anni Mara have 6s interrupts). 24s interrupt is just plainly crazy. With how many way every ranged classes have to avoid interrupts while under pressure.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SaceDelora Posted November 10, 2014 Share Posted November 10, 2014 By increasing the cooldown they also decrease the frequency of cleanse being needed in raids. I'm totally fine with that on like a Nightmare Nefra fight, there are that many fewer cleanses needed now, due to the increase in cooldown. Would have been nice to have gotten a mass dispel though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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