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The nice way to explain to someone how to play


ikinai

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Tell them in a calm and friendly tone, and then when you're done, say "But you already knew that didn't you". Then, unless they ask for more information, drop the subject entirely. What they do with that information is up to them. You cannot control what other people do.

 

I suspect this is going to turn into another 20 page thread with people disputing you becase some think what they are saying isn't an option becase they are playing Spreadsheet Wars and the math tells them so.

 

I completely agree with you up to the last statement " you already knew that " i don't think that is entirely necessary. Just give them the info in a polite manner and then drop it .

Edited by _NovaBlast_
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I play how i play, played for nearly 3 years, have pretty much everything at 55 and geared, and every now and then someone will go aggro for something so minor i just LOL at them and if they fight back just meet them with fire, most ppl are nice enough, but ppl that call you out and get mad over tiny things, just feel free to yell back :)
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.....being nice is certainly not saying something so obnoxiously, incredibly patronizing as "but you knew that already, didn't you?" Not only that, but it implies that someone is purposefully making mistakes.

 

Explain things nicely, that's great, that's awesome, but that phrase isn't nice. Hell, using that phrase alone would probably just give me another anxiety spike and want the whole thing to be over asap so i can get away from whoever used it, it's so bad :|

 

Like... seriously. It's patronizing and stealth accusing to the extreme, please do not.

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The phrase "But you already knew that didn't you" is for their benefit, so they don't have to admit that they're not playing the right way. If they did or didn't know what you've told them already, they can just shrug it off and say "Yeah I did know that" without feeling stupid. I fail to see how that phrase is in any way patronizing.

 

No, it's patronizing. If you thought they already knew it, you wouldn't be explaining. They know that. The phrase at the end is an insult. If you can't see it, it's because you don't want to. But you've probably never listened to someone explain anything to you anyway. But just in case I'm wrong, let me explain:

 

They will start feeling stupid the second you start pontificating about how to play 'the right way.' They will figure out instantly that you think they are doing it wrong. No matter whose fault it really was that things went pear-shaped, you decided to single out one player with your patronizing guidance, and they know exactly what you are doing. They also probably don't appreciate it, and telling them they already knew that after you held up the group to explain it all again? No, that's not nice. It's not helpful.

 

If you really feel the need to stop and tell people 'how to do things the right way,' just say so. "Hey, I have an idea on how we could do this better. Mind if we take a quick break so I can explain?" That would be nice. That way works just fine. Note the complete lack of arrogance in the suggestion, it's just an idea. Note how that phrase gives people the opportunity to listen and participate, rather than holding them hostage to your preaching. Note how that question gives people the chance to make their own suggestions as well, just in case your 'right way' turns out not to be the best way after all.

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That sounds incredibly patronizing. But you already knew that didn't you.

 

Agreed, I would definitely never say that to someone. When someone asks questions I always just explain it matter-of-factly like an encyclopedia. Example:

 

Person: "How do I use this lightsaber crystal?"

Me: "Press ctrl+right click on your lightsaber and then right click the crystal you want to put in."

 

Polite, helpful, not patronizing.

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If someone is doing something wrong and it is getting you killed or costing you money tell them to stop what they are doing in the "group" chat

 

Be specific and to the point- "don't break my cc" "stay out of the red circle" "pick an ac" "upgrade your level 15 whites"

If there is still a problem you can give a bit of an elaboration in a whisper; if the player responds to this - great- if not then try to accomplish your own goal around the other players incompetence and if it really becomes an issue (the player starts getting defensive and acts out) then just drop and do something else

Edited by Daxy
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Somebody came here and posted the nice way because they got their feelings hurt, but this is the land of feeling hurt sharks so if they bite you for trying dont feel hurt its what they do. I usually just whisper the person and quietly explain the problem.
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No I wouldn't be explaining it if they already knew it. I'd only be explaining it if I thought they didn't know it...

 

There is no arrogance in my suggestion. Badgering people and demanding they play your way is arrogant. Telling someone once how they can improve their gameplay in a simple PM and then never bringing up the subject again is not arrogant. If anything, the way you would force the whole group to "take a quick break to explain" is "holding the entire group hostage to your preaching".

 

Wrong. You're kind of a hard case, aren't you? Here people have explained, very nicely, why your little coda is patronizing, how it is, though no one has yet used the term, obnoxious. But here you are defending your phrase as if your life depended on it. Several people here have told you they think the phrase is patronizing. At this point it doesn't really matter what you think about it. If this many people report to you that it is, it's time to rethink your position instead of dig in your heels. You don't get to dictate to others what using a phrase means. They already know, and it is at variance with what you would like it to be.

 

But you already knew that, didn't you?

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Tell them in a calm and friendly tone, and then when you're done, say "But you already knew that didn't you". Then, unless they ask for more information, drop the subject entirely. What they do with that information is up to them. You cannot control what other people do.

 

Yeah, that always works well.

 

This morning I ran a KDY PUG. From the first pull, our "all knowing" tank kept screaming at me for heals. Mid run he pulls too many mobs and the party wipes miserably. After regrouping, our tank starts his rant about my not healing. My response:

 

- I'm a sniper

- I HAVE NO HEALS

- But you already knew that, right?

 

Mr. super tank called me a noob and immediately ragequit.

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I usually whisper them first to save them from the embarrassment of being called out in front of the group. Then see where it goes from there.

 

this.

 

I've yet to have any issues with "if you don't mind me giving you a bit of advice?" whisper. most of the times, I get "sure" and sometimes I get "no" or no response at all. I tend not to push it and depending on how painful they are to play with - just put them on ignore.

 

the pencil pusher in me is under no obligation to play with people who don't care about the rest of the group when they chose to play in ways detrimental to the group, yet group anyways.

 

P.S. I agree with those that say "you already knew that" is patronizing as hell.

Edited by Jeweledleah
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Noone has explained why it's patronizing, they just said it was patronizing. You people are a lost cause. All you can do is nit-pick about the negatives.

 

The way you're using that phrase is patronizing because of the tone you're using. As I said in the OP, you need a calm and friendly tone. But of course, you have to concentrate on the negatives.

 

Ok, I'll take a stab at this.

 

It's patronising because you know that they didn't know it. And they know they didn't know it. Because if they knew it, you wouldn't be pointing out what they were doing wrong in the first place.

 

So, in front of the group (because this would only happen in group content, unless you go around telling people randomly what they're doing wrong, and that's a whole different ballgame), you single them out and tell them what they're doing wrong.

And then at the end you leave them with the option of either publicly admitting they didn't know this already (thus further showing how "dumb" they were) or saying that they DID know this already but chose do do things wrong on purpose. Furthermore, the phrase itself takes the stance that you think they knew this already but did it on purpose, thus not being simply uninformed but actually malicious.

 

It's a no-win situation for them and you are forcing them into that situation.

 

But since you can't see how this is patronising, I'm willing to bet that most people see you as a know-it-all or besserwisser that likes to point out what others do wrong and generally treat others as children.

Of course, if you are that, then you wouldn't know that in the first place since you view the world as right and wrong and you are always right.

Edited by OddballEasyEight
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No, it's patronizing. If you thought they already knew it, you wouldn't be explaining. They know that. The phrase at the end is an insult. If you can't see it, it's because you don't want to. But you've probably never listened to someone explain anything to you anyway. But just in case I'm wrong, let me explain:

 

They will start feeling stupid the second you start pontificating about how to play 'the right way.' They will figure out instantly that you think they are doing it wrong. No matter whose fault it really was that things went pear-shaped, you decided to single out one player with your patronizing guidance, and they know exactly what you are doing. They also probably don't appreciate it, and telling them they already knew that after you held up the group to explain it all again? No, that's not nice. It's not helpful.

 

If you really feel the need to stop and tell people 'how to do things the right way,' just say so. "Hey, I have an idea on how we could do this better. Mind if we take a quick break so I can explain?" That would be nice. That way works just fine. Note the complete lack of arrogance in the suggestion, it's just an idea. Note how that phrase gives people the opportunity to listen and participate, rather than holding them hostage to your preaching. Note how that question gives people the chance to make their own suggestions as well, just in case your 'right way' turns out not to be the best way after all.

 

OMG!

 

Can you please be my permanent group content partner?

 

:)

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"you already knew that, didn't you" - is patronizing.

 

why? you have already been told why, but maybe you need to be explained more than once.

 

if someone already knew something, they would have been doing that. there are two implications two your phrase. either they know and are deliberately being bad and that's what you are telling them. or they DIDN't in fact know that and you are adding insult to injury by claiming that they should have know that and you shouldn't even have to explain it to them.

 

funny thing is, just changing your phrasing slightly to "you may know this already" removes a great deal of patronizing from your tone. since you keep on stressing how important tone is. but honestly? not only adding that is unnecessary, it actualy makes things worse by making people less likely to listen to your advice.

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Saying they already knew it in no way implies that they should have already known it. And adding insult to injury? What injury? You're implying that someone should feel injured because they don't have the information that you do? Don't be a dick.

 

Saying "But you already knew that" gives the impression to the player that you're just reminding him of whatever gameplay aspect you're talking about (because you trust that he already knows it), and thus the player doesn't have to feel like you're cramming advice down his throat. I don't know why or how many different ways I have to explain this.

 

 

 

That's his problem, not yours.

 

wow... just... I have no words other than wow at how utterly myopic you are. well.. I do have other adjectives I could use but I'm not going to. because.. wow...

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That's his problem, not yours.

 

Except it becomes mine when these kind of mistake causes a group wipes... Well normally a group can get away with one of that kind. Two if the two others are skilled and well overgeared. When there is three problems in the same group.. either you solo the content without comp or just /leave. So it is true that it isn't my problem, because when it actually becomes my problem I have at least one or two other problem on my hands....

 

I still disagree with you on the final part. Sure being polite always help when you try to help a player get better and aren't venting frustration on them because you already explained the fight twice and they ignored the simple instructions you gave. But the last part can be taken relatively well.. Or be extremely insulting depending on the player.

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Yes it does depend on the player, but the player's reaction shouldn't be of any concern to you. This thread isn't about dealing with reactions. Whether or not they are genuinely having trouble or just trolling the group, the onus is on you to remain courteous and respectful. Let them know if there is anyway they can improve upon what they're doing in a calm and respectful manner, keeping in mind how the player could react to the words you are saying, and then drop the subject entirely.

 

At this point you've done all you can do. It's now entirely up to the player what he does with your attempt to help, and as I said in the OP, you cannot control the actions of other people.The player can either take your advice onboard, brush it aside, or become belligerent, and reacting to a belligerent player just leads to trouble. Pressing the matter doesn't help anyone either. If the player didn't accept your advice the first time, they won't accept your advice the next five times. Therefore dropping the subject would be the most prudent thing to do.

 

Although I quoted your post Ryuku-sama, I have faith that you already understand all of this.

 

I understand your point. It wasn't that complicate. It is better to pass along some advice. If it is done without the usual snark there is a better chance someone will listen.

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You're a complete idiot.

 

Player 1 is having a bit of trouble with his rotation.

Player 2 PM's him and says "Hey if you do this, it will help your damage. But you already knew that didn't you."

Player 1 says "Heh heh yeah, I just forgot"

Player 2 never brings it up again unless Player 1 asks.

 

Unless you think giving any advice at all is patronizing.

 

Well, A; You calling me an idiot shows what a lovely person you are and B; how about if you see someone having a bit of trouble with his rotation, instead of immediately treating him like a moron by being condasending (because, yes, that phrase is condasending whether you think so or not), you whisper him and ask "I notice you had some trouble with your rotation, would mind if I gave a few suggestions?" instead?

 

And yes, running around telling others how to play the game (note that the difference between what you said and what I said, is that I didn't tell the player what to do, I asked him if he wanted help) is pretty patronizing.

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