12xXP Ruins the Game For Lower Level Casual Players

[Meraxos]

My wife and I came back to SWTOR a couple of months ago and were enjoying the game until we foolishly pre-ordered the new expansion and watched the 12xXP totally change the nature of the game.

 

We were enjoying ourselves just trying out multiple characters, leveling slowly and doing a variety of things, flashpoints, heroics, datacrons, most quests in each zone, a bit of warzones etc. I could foresee us staying subscribed for a couple of years while we enjoyed the content and slowly leveled up.

 

I can see how the 12xXP would seem wonderful to old time players who have a few max level characters and want one or two others without much effort. But for casual players and newer players it basically ruins the game experience when SWTOR is compressed down to nothing but class quests. And, to tell you the truth, the class quests are better when they are encountered in small doses while doing other questing. When the storylines are taken in large chunks one starts to see how weak most of them are.

 

Most players can't see any perspective except the one that benefits themselves. So I can predict the responses that this will get. Don't pre-order, wait it out, cancel and resubscribe etc etc. The trouble is that the game has been fundamentally changed by the mad rush to max level. Zones are empty, there is no chatter, nobody is grouping for heroics, the low-level crafting market is hosed. Most players heard the siren call of an easy run to max level and they are off to the races. At 55 they may well find that the game was at it's best at the lower levels until the low levels were gutted.

 

The end result is that instead of staying subscribed for years my wife already left and went back to other MMOs and I just unsubscribed. I may as well play Skyrim because it's a better solo game than the SWTOR solo class-quest game.

 

I'll finish by mentioning my daughter who always loved Star Wars. She played SWTOR and really like it. She played a Juggernaut and liked to tank. She played mostly with friends but also random groups. Over time most of her friends quit playing but she kept on tanking. Until 55 that is. At 55 she encountered so many miserable, judgmental, elitist jerks that she quit. The point is that for a great many casual and low-stress players max level is not the beginning of the real fun, it's the end.

[Jduensing]

I love the endgame, it has an actual mmo-ey feel.

But i love the crawl to the endgame more. The story, the sense of accomplishment when after two months I've finally finished my story. It's great. And I have seen the 12x XP ruin the game on the way to 55, so I more than see your point. However complaining about pre ordering like it was bioware's fault almost is childish. Immersing myself in stories i never would have had time for has been great for me, and crafting has fixed all the gearing issues people complain about for me. Those who don't like the change should just wait it out, or stop playing like you said, because from here on out the only real new content we see will be endgame.

[ZionHalcyon]

Threads like this one seem a bit silly to me, as one of the major critiques of the game when it first came out was how the pacing was really bad through the middle of the levelling experience, and the metrics showed more casuals preferred the condensed story style of Korriban and Dromund Kaas.

 

OP is entitled to his opinion, but him claiming to speak for casuals is laughable, when the metrics all show the opposite.

[Djiini]

For the LAST time, nobody forced you to pre-order at the point where it would grant 12x EXP.

 

I'd call myself casual, and I'd like to level six of the classes to 55 this way and then just have one to actually do all the sidequests--one of which I did before all this, a Sorc to 55.

Edited October 21, 2014 by Djiini

[Meraxos]

In my actual post I really only claim to speak for myself, my wife and my daughter. My post title generalizes but that's just the headline.

 

Perhaps we are not representative of other casuals at all. My daughter, in fact, has grown up on games since watching me playing Doom while bouncing on my knee as an infant. She is more of a hard-core gamer.

 

Perhaps most casuals are happy to zoom to 55 and we are unusual in enjoying a slow paced leveling process.

 

But even if we didn't personally use the 12xXP the game has changed. It used to be that you'd encounter players, do a couple of heroics with them and then see them again the next day or in the next zone. Now almost everybody you encounter is zooming ahead at turbo speed and zones are quiet and fairly deserted.

[Djiini]

12x EXP has absolutely nothing to do with that, though. I much prefer finding my own friends or guild mates to group with for difficult content than try to group with randoms. It's the entire reason I don't do Ops--way too many bads. I don't know if you have multiple computers in your household, but your family having played the game should solve that already....

[MagikFingerz]

1. Shouldn't have pre-ordered if you didn't want the XP boost.

 

2. Just don't do story mode until 3.0 hits and do all that other stuff you listed in the OP. Pretty sure that everything but planetary heroics are at business as usual (depending on your server).

Edited October 21, 2014 by MagikFingerz

[Heat-Wave]

Perhaps most casuals are happy to zoom to 55 and we are unusual in enjoying a slow paced leveling process.

 

But even if we didn't personally use the 12xXP the game has changed. It used to be that you'd encounter players, do a couple of heroics with them and then see them again the next day or in the next zone. Now almost everybody you encounter is zooming ahead at turbo speed and zones are quiet and fairly deserted.

 

Not at all, I loved the pace of leveling... The first four times... Then sorta the next four times... Now, meh...

 

The real problem is that you missed the party. You say you were away from the game for awhile, that is the problem. Most of us were not, so we have all done those heroics and FP a hundred times and are sick of them.

 

New players do come in, but I suspect not enough of them. Once 3.0 drops and 12x XP is over, I think you'll see some new players come due to the Exp Pack and some return to normal for awhile, but it will never be like it was two years ago.

[tmblake]

I personally am very very very VERY happy with the 12x XP. There were simply NOT enough players at 55 to fuel the level 55 content. This 12x xp event has helped that by boosting a bunch of new characters to max level, providing more players for the group finder.

[Pscyon]

There's something I've always been wondering and maybe you can answer it Meraxos. You say your wife allready left the game and now you've unsubscribed too, basically because of the experience boost. Fair enough. But why are you "quitting" rather than merely taking a break? 1st December the buff will be gone as I understand it and you'd be free to level at your own pace again. Is it not possible for you, or indeed anyone who makes these "I'm quitting the game!" threads, to merely come back when whatever bugs you is no longer an issue?

 

Personally I play several MMORPGs and other non-online games too and whenever I have no more desire to play a particular one I just unceremoniously stop until the mood hits me again. I don't understand why it has to be "I love this game! I'm playing it forever!" or "This game now sucks. Goodbye forever!"

[Heat-Wave]

My wife and I came back to SWTOR a couple of months ago and were enjoying the game until we foolishly pre-ordered the new expansion and watched the 12xXP totally change the nature of the game.

 

We were enjoying ourselves just trying out multiple characters, leveling slowly and doing a variety of things, flashpoints, heroics, datacrons, most quests in each zone, a bit of warzones etc. I could foresee us staying subscribed for a couple of years while we enjoyed the content and slowly leveled up..

 

I just want to call this part out...

 

What you really want is the experience of the past few years, but starting now.

 

I'm sorry, but that ship has sailed. Had you done this two years ago, you would have gotten exactly what you wanted. This is not a static game, there are not large numbers of new players anymore to do all that with, and F2P changed it quite a bit as well.

 

The class stories are over, the detailed flashpoints are over, the rich and detailed planets are over, the nice mix of missions in those planets are over.

 

What you see is what you get, but most of us have done it all over and over. You haven't, so you'll have to find a group of people who want what you want, it perhaps can be done, but it would have been easier two years ago.

 

Going forward this will be a much more MMO feeling game with lots of group content and end game content, the lvl 1- to 50 experience is more or less set in stone, but few are doing that anymore.

[ZavienUK]

It's funny isn't it, I've always said I wished there was a way to just run through the class story in one go. As much as I enjoy all the other aspects of the game I always felt having to do the class story piecemeal between levelling diluted the class story experience, and ultimately prevented me from seeing all the stories. Needless to say I love this 12xXP event. I guess the thing to learn here is people are different, and giving people options is a good thing - quite simply a way to toggle off the extra xp is required for those who feel like the OP.

[PavSalco]

"Regular" casuals don't have time and patience for a slow paced leveling process. They have other stuff to do or other games to play. Before XP bonus many people that I saw on the planets quitted before 40 lvl.

 

Heroics and flashpoints after 30 lvl were already skipped by players. It has nothing to do with XP bonus.

 

The leveling process was actually the most hated aspect of this game by those casuals. It was hated by solo players that wanted to play it like Kotor and not being "forced" to play the group content. All they desired was to experience the class missions without spending days on side quests. This is what they got now.

 

My two IRL friends quitted before 30 lvl because they were fed up with slow leveling and they didn't plan to spend two or three months to get only one character to 50 lvl. The decreased XP is horrendous for f2p players.

 

Conclusion: you're not a casual. Casuals don't immerse into the world of the game and don't have time for every aspect of it

Edited October 21, 2014 by PavSalco

[Sirce]

Here is ANOTHER thing you can do to avoid the x12 XP bonus. Don't do class mission for a while, focus on planetary quests, flashpoints, try out a new class, etc. All this will be gone by December 2nd, a little over a month. Your experience being "wrecked" by this is only temporary.

 

Even then, if you wanted to take your time to get to end-game, WHY PRE-ORDER AT ALL???

 

Sorry, your "complaint" is not valid and you're having buyer's regret for not thinking through what your purchase really mean. Bioware did not ruin your gaming experience by misleading you, you misled yourself.

 

Threads like these, I'm glad it'll be gone in December but sadly, only to replace "WHY DID I COMPLAIN!!! I WANT INSTANT 55 NOW SO I CAN PLAY SoR NOW!"

 

Enjoy what you bought now before you regret complaining about it now, later.

[AlixMV]

There is also nothing in 12x XP stopping someone from continuing on as they were and taking things slowly, doing side missions, Heroics, Flashpoints, etc. It's not like you have 12x XP and are locked out of doing anything else.

 

The only difference 12x class mission XP brings to the equation is that you'll likely hit a point where you don't receive any XP from those other missions. But that doesn't prevent people from doing them anyway.

Edited October 21, 2014 by AlixMV

[Reno_Tarshil]

There is also nothing in 12x XP stopping someone from continuing on as they were and taking things slowly, doing side missions, Heroics, Flashpoints, etc. It's not like you have 12x XP and are locked out of doing anything else.

 

The only difference 12x class mission XP brings to the equation is that you'll likely hit a point where you don't receive any XP from those other missions. But that doesn't prevent people from doing them anyway.

 

End of thread.

[Cernow]

Personally I'm loving the 12x bonus. But I totally understand that for others it's not something they want, perhaps not on all their characters, or perhaps not on any characters. Yet they would still like to support the game by pre-ordering.

 

Every time there is some kind of xp bonus the same issue comes up again and again. It amazes me that they cannot put a TOGGLE on these xp bonuses so they are optional. It's a PR shot in the foot every single time.

[Vhaegrant]

My wife and I came back to SWTOR a couple of months ago and were enjoying the game until we foolishly pre-ordered the new expansion and watched the 12xXP totally change the nature of the game.

 

We were enjoying ourselves just trying out multiple characters, leveling slowly and doing a variety of things, flashpoints, heroics, datacrons, most quests in each zone, a bit of warzones etc. I could foresee us staying subscribed for a couple of years while we enjoyed the content and slowly leveled up.

 

I can see how the 12xXP would seem wonderful to old time players who have a few max level characters and want one or two others without much effort. But for casual players and newer players it basically ruins the game experience when SWTOR is compressed down to nothing but class quests. And, to tell you the truth, the class quests are better when they are encountered in small doses while doing other questing. When the storylines are taken in large chunks one starts to see how weak most of them are.

 

Most players can't see any perspective except the one that benefits themselves. So I can predict the responses that this will get. Don't pre-order, wait it out, cancel and resubscribe etc etc. The trouble is that the game has been fundamentally changed by the mad rush to max level. Zones are empty, there is no chatter, nobody is grouping for heroics, the low-level crafting market is hosed. Most players heard the siren call of an easy run to max level and they are off to the races. At 55 they may well find that the game was at it's best at the lower levels until the low levels were gutted.

 

The end result is that instead of staying subscribed for years my wife already left and went back to other MMOs and I just unsubscribed. I may as well play Skyrim because it's a better solo game than the SWTOR solo class-quest game.

 

I'll finish by mentioning my daughter who always loved Star Wars. She played SWTOR and really like it. She played a Juggernaut and liked to tank. She played mostly with friends but also random groups. Over time most of her friends quit playing but she kept on tanking. Until 55 that is. At 55 she encountered so many miserable, judgmental, elitist jerks that she quit. The point is that for a great many casual and low-stress players max level is not the beginning of the real fun, it's the end.

 

What server were you on?

On the Red Eclipse the low level worlds are just as packed with preferred and free to play players as they ever were, not to mention the many players that have yet to pre-order the new expansion. I have seen no real change to player dynamics in grouping other than quicker Group Finder queues as some old players return to the game to check things out and have a warm up before the expansion.

 

If you weren't in a social friendly guild the levelling experience was always a hit and miss affair, from launch all the way through the server merges to the state of the game today. Some players just have more time to play and can consume the game far quicker. I've grouped with many a player in low level areas when I was levelling up, friend them and watch them accelerate through the levels and then depart to pastures new... and that was before any xp boosts.

 

You can't really set down limits on other players, or expect them to play the game as you want to. The only aspect you can control is how you play the game.

 

Just because there is a x12 xp boost doesn't mean 'You' have to abandon all other quests other than your class ones. It was already hard enough not to overlevel an area if you were taking time to complete the side quests, had rest xp and were using the xp boosts. And you know what happens when you over level... the xp reward virtually disappears (+6xp per quest), the brakes are put on further levelling until you hit the next planet. But it doesn't mean you have to ignore them, you still get the credit rewards, you get the equipment/ coms reward. You can keep a little challenge there by not equipping with the best gear or not summoning your companion. You don't have to abandon any content.

 

As to crafting... I would have thought if you were a canny crafter (or can just farm for green/blue drops on an alt) the GTN would never have been healthier as there is a definite equipment gap if you only stick to the Class quests (and don't have the luxury of lots of alts for the large presence buff).

[Djiini]

Every time there is some kind of xp bonus the same issue comes up again and again. It amazes me that they cannot put a TOGGLE on these xp bonuses so they are optional. It's a PR shot in the foot every single time.

 

While it would make sense for otherwise mandatory bonuses, such as Double EXP Weeks, there's no point to put a toggle on this one because--hey, don't turn it on at all by pre-ordering early!

 

I'm pretty sure pre-ordering doesn't 'support the game' any more than just buying it later?

Edited October 21, 2014 by Djiini

[Meraxos]

I just want to call this part out...

 

What you really want is the experience of the past few years, but starting now.

 

I'm sorry, but that ship has sailed. Had you done this two years ago, you would have gotten exactly what you wanted. This is not a static game, there are not large numbers of new players anymore to do all that with, and F2P changed it quite a bit as well.

 

The class stories are over, the detailed flashpoints are over, the rich and detailed planets are over, the nice mix of missions in those planets are over.

 

What you see is what you get, but most of us have done it all over and over. You haven't, so you'll have to find a group of people who want what you want, it perhaps can be done, but it would have been easier two years ago.

 

Going forward this will be a much more MMO feeling game with lots of group content and end game content, the lvl 1- to 50 experience is more or less set in stone, but few are doing that anymore.

 

This was a very well reasoned reply and I thank you for it. I think you are right - what I want is the leveling experience of the SWTOR of the past. But that ship has sailed over the horizon and out of sight. The game has been radically changed by FTP and the Cartel Market and Strongholds and boosted XP and the changing expectations of newer players.

 

Also I think I was judging the game pre-boost by the 1-25 leveling experience which seems to be the richest experience. Since the 12xXP went active I've leveled a few characters into the 40s and the mid-level content seems much duller in general. So I guess I can see why people would just want to zoom past it.

 

I'm always happy to have people show me a different perspective. In the end there may be no place for me in SWTOR. But not because the game has failed. Rather because I'm looking for an old school MMO experience that doesn't really exist any more. I was just fooled into thinking I had found it in SWTOR when I was leveling my guys from 1-30 before the 12xXP took effect.

[Cernow]

While it would make sense for otherwise mandatory bonuses, such as Double EXP Weeks, there's no point to put a toggle on this one because--hey, don't turn it on at all by pre-ordering early!

 

I'm pretty sure pre-ordering doesn't 'support the game' any more than just buying it later?

 

Well, if you want the 7 days early access to SoR, then you need to pre-order by November 2nd. Which means you'd have a full month of mandatory 12x xps before the expansion launches. What if you don't want the bonus, but do want the early access? Then the "don't preorder if you don't want the bonus" argument doesn't hold water.

 

So, whilst the majority of players (myself included) may think 12x xps is a fantastic thing, there's others who don't. Others who might not pre-order, might avoid subscribing for a month before the expansion etc etc. Why risk alienating those customers all because the devs can't be bothered to put in a toggle?

[HelinCarnate]

Not sure what server you are on but on JC I am seeing people advertising for heroics all the time and people joining them. And if you insist on doing all the side quests, by the end of the planet you end up being horribly over leveled and all the quests are grey. Now with the 12x xp the exact same thing happens, only a little earlier on. Not a big deal.