GrandLordMenace Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 It's a work in progress, the current version is being edited on the Ebon Hawk Forums. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7539858#post7539858 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cs_zoltan Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 You mean there's more to it than using MS and FD on cd? MY WHOLE LIFE IS A LIE :eek: Seriously though, nice guide ^^ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) You mean there's more to it than using MS and FD on cd? MY WHOLE LIFE IS A LIE :eek: Seriously though, nice guide ^^ yes there is, though you just listed 90% - 95% of the spec Edited October 16, 2014 by GrandLordMenace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
alkhattabi Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 i dont get this *Master Strike / Ravage (clip at 2.7 ALA PVE style, refer to dulfy guide) + Blade Storm / Force Scream OR dispatch / Vicious Throw *Master Strike / Ravage *Dispatch / Vicious Throw *Overhead Slash / Impale *Blade Storm / Force Scream OR Plasma Brand *Force Push to reset leap and begin anew. Ravage+FS then ravage ? Force scream or shatter ? i thought it was shatter>impale and only use force scream when you have 2 stacks and Ravage >Blade storm am still new and this is kinda confusing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_Past Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 I skimmed it earlier. Most of it looks good. I will provide some feedback this weekend. I could also contribute towards the guide, if you wish. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veSev Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 So I think we need to get all the guide writers together for the guardian and just do a "mega" guide for 3.0 for all specs both pvp and pve. Sound good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_Past Posted October 16, 2014 Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) So I think we need to get all the guide writers together for the guardian and just do a "mega" guide for 3.0 for all specs both pvp and pve. Sound good? For PVP it might take a little while, at least for the advanced tactics. From the looks of it a LOT is changing throughout the systems and classes. This changes how you might approach new CDs, abilities, etc. Edited October 16, 2014 by Andrew_Past Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 (edited) So I think we need to get all the guide writers together for the guardian and just do a "mega" guide for 3.0 for all specs both pvp and pve. Sound good? But... I liked being the only guide writer left... WHY ARE YOU ALL COMING BACK! JK, I will be writing the guide for dulfy when 3.0 drops, sadly I'll be out of the country for a few weeks after the 3.0 drop but I aim on finishing that one. I do need some help developing this Andrew before I actually post it on my dulfy guide and by extension these forums, I do have a todo list of testing that I need to accomplish: Confirm that a PVP saber reflect cap doesn't exist in PVP (KBN said this once and I haven't gotten around to having a sniper ambush me mid saber reflect, if so it would significantly revise my PVP strategy.) I also do want to get some more awareness on the Tank Gear in DPS type build, at least for regs. It's quite viable in regs due to the benefits in Blade Barrier and Focused Defense, as long as you use a shield. If you could whack people with it for a while and tell me what you think Andrew, that would be great. Same goes for everyone. I don't want to make a superguide per se, but if we could get a thread stickied with all the "Current" guides that are being written, that would be phenomenal. Also if we could find out how to change forum thread titles, I don't want my guide saying updated for 2.8 forever. A superguide in theory is a good idea but in practice there may be a little too much conflicting information, I'd rather just have a pile of links that can be found all in one place. Edited October 16, 2014 by GrandLordMenace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted October 16, 2014 Author Share Posted October 16, 2014 i dont get this *Master Strike / Ravage (clip at 2.7 ALA PVE style, refer to dulfy guide) + Blade Storm / Force Scream OR dispatch / Vicious Throw *Master Strike / Ravage *Dispatch / Vicious Throw *Overhead Slash / Impale *Blade Storm / Force Scream OR Plasma Brand *Force Push to reset leap and begin anew. Ravage+FS then ravage ? Force scream or shatter ? i thought it was shatter>impale and only use force scream when you have 2 stacks and Ravage >Blade storm am still new and this is kinda confusing This is the opener right after your leap. It is a rough priority. Very many things are interchangeable depending on where in the leap you are. The problem with Master Strike is that skilled players can knock it out after unremitting, and in select situations you may need to use a different ability. Plasma Brand and Blade Storm share a priority in this situation because Plasma Brand is fully elemental so it breaches most tank defenses. Remember, this all depends on what is off CD. the OPTIMAL opener is a force leap, master strike, Blade storm or dispatch, depending on timing, and how good you are at clipping, but this is PVP. Not everything is cut and dry, things can be off CD and on CD. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_Past Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 For the tank gear, DPS spec, do you want all tank gear, or some tank and some dps? Either way, I can try it out this weekend a little bit. Not sure about the Saber Reflect. I actually use Saber Reflect in a few different ways though. When against ranged I use it mostly as an offensive burst CD by combining it with MS when you see/know a powerful attack/channel is coming. It's hilarious when used on SoS or ambush. About Force Leap, you most certainly do NOT want to always use it as an opener/on CD. It's situational. When against a lot of range, use ST while closing the distance on foot and save leap for when you need it. If you're facerolling, you don't need to do this. Just go for max damage at this point. Also, if you have toons on Harb, Pot5, or Shadowlands, we could try to test Saber Reflect or bounce ideas off each other. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) For the tank gear, DPS spec, do you want all tank gear, or some tank and some dps? Either way, I can try it out this weekend a little bit. Not sure about the Saber Reflect. I actually use Saber Reflect in a few different ways though. When against ranged I use it mostly as an offensive burst CD by combining it with MS when you see/know a powerful attack/channel is coming. It's hilarious when used on SoS or ambush. About Force Leap, you most certainly do NOT want to always use it as an opener/on CD. It's situational. When against a lot of range, use ST while closing the distance on foot and save leap for when you need it. If you're facerolling, you don't need to do this. Just go for max damage at this point. Also, if you have toons on Harb, Pot5, or Shadowlands, we could try to test Saber Reflect or bounce ideas off each other. 4pc DPS set bonus, essentially full DPS gear, just pop DPS mods into a shield. Specwise, spec into whatever you want in the defense tree, I spec up the mainstat talent in vig then ignore the accuracy talent, then get 3% force crit in Focus so that focused defense critz moarrrr. You can even wear a Reactive Warding tanking relic if you so desire, but the theory is that if you're going to run full endurance anyway, why not wear DPS gear instead for the small increase in mit from blade barrier and an incredibly more powerful Focused Defense, AND you still have full access to all the other DCDs. Edited October 17, 2014 by GrandLordMenace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veSev Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 A superguide in theory is a good idea but in practice there may be a little too much conflicting information, I'd rather just have a pile of links that can be found all in one place. I was thinking more along the lines of working on it together in 3.0 rather than just creating our own and throwing them in a forum post together. Think it would be cool to have a combined effort by a lot of the top guardian/juggernaut players for all specs to help create an entire guide to the class is all, but either way I'll be putting together an update for mine come 3.0, maybe earlier if I'm lucky. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) I was thinking more along the lines of working on it together in 3.0 rather than just creating our own and throwing them in a forum post together. Think it would be cool to have a combined effort by a lot of the top guardian/juggernaut players for all specs to help create an entire guide to the class is all, but either way I'll be putting together an update for mine come 3.0, maybe earlier if I'm lucky. Yeah it does seem like a novel idea. I thought about it in the past few hours and would be open to it, especially since I won't be able to have a 100% finished guide by the time I leave the country for 2 weeks a month after 3.0 drops. If we could have a working prototype within a few days after 3.0 drops it would be great. But how would we begin to manage it? Edit it? The forums aren't exactly open to the idea of multiple people collaborating on one project. Edited October 17, 2014 by GrandLordMenace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_Past Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yeah it does seem like a novel idea. I thought about it in the past few hours and would be open to it, especially since I won't be able to have a 100% finished guide by the time I leave the country for 2 weeks a month after 3.0 drops. If we could have a working prototype within a few days after 3.0 drops it would be great. But how would we begin to manage it? Edit it? The forums aren't exactly open to the idea of multiple people collaborating on one project. Probably a singular contact that controls it, but have some sort of shared google doc. I'll be extremely busy with work come 3.0, but can organize it if no one else can. At minimum, I will help with the PVP Vigilance section at the very least. Btw, I will definitely be interested in what the PVE guys have to say about rotations and stat priorities. While I always adapt rotations to PVP situations, I still try to know the "optimal" rotations, even if they're not usually practical in PVP against an opponent paying attention to you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veSev Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Yeah what Andrew said, I was thinking a Google Doc instead of just a forum post. That way multiple people, of which is determined before hand, can edit it. If you guys are up for it then I'll get in touch with a few more PVE guys to see if they would be interested. The one soft spot we have is tanks. While I know how to tank, I don't tank often enough to understand nuances of fights to lower my DTPS. If you guys know a good MT Guardian, you should reach out to them. As far as rotations are concerned Andrew, I dont actually have a defined rotation in my PVE guide because the spec is so open to interpretation that really any rotation, so long as your sticking to the priority of keeping DoTs on CD and using MS with more than 3 secs left of DoT CD, can provide the necessary damage to do well in SM/HM. NiM is more about prioritizing your burst since the majority of fights this tier are high mobility. But either way, if you would like to see my rotation, and there is a pattern, you can visit my guide and scroll down to the video links. I consider it optimal, but I know a few of the top PVE guardian guys have different variations. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=754734 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) Yeah what Andrew said, I was thinking a Google Doc instead of just a forum post. That way multiple people, of which is determined before hand, can edit it. If you guys are up for it then I'll get in touch with a few more PVE guys to see if they would be interested. The one soft spot we have is tanks. While I know how to tank, I don't tank often enough to understand nuances of fights to lower my DTPS. If you guys know a good MT Guardian, you should reach out to them. As far as rotations are concerned Andrew, I dont actually have a defined rotation in my PVE guide because the spec is so open to interpretation that really any rotation, so long as your sticking to the priority of keeping DoTs on CD and using MS with more than 3 secs left of DoT CD, can provide the necessary damage to do well in SM/HM. NiM is more about prioritizing your burst since the majority of fights this tier are high mobility. But either way, if you would like to see my rotation, and there is a pattern, you can visit my guide and scroll down to the video links. I consider it optimal, but I know a few of the top PVE guardian guys have different variations. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=754734 Agree. My rotation is more scripted (barely) but honestly, it's all the same flavor. Bar a few minor variations that are more RNG related more than anything (Crits and all) there's no real difference. Vig is one of those specs where once you get the general idea, the rest is up to the person. It's not like the old Combat Spec where it was all about learning how to manage the RNG etc. I WOULD volunteer to manage it but I would hate to have 2 entire weeks so soon after launch where I can't reach it and update it sadly. Edited October 17, 2014 by GrandLordMenace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veSev Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) I WOULD volunteer to manage it but I would hate to have 2 entire weeks so soon after launch where I can't reach it and update it sadly. No rush, I mean we have six weeks til drop and waiting to see who the magical individuals that get invites are, hopefully someone active here will. So we have time to get a list of people who want to be involved, those who will edit, etc. before anything has to be put on paper. And being gone for a few weeks wont be an issue if we have multiple edit sources and knowledgeable people, so I wouldn't be concerned about that. Anyways, I don't want to fill up your guide with posts about something else lol. Good guide. Even though I dont PvP regularly anymore, I can understand a lot of the concepts discussed. Edited October 17, 2014 by veSev Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 (edited) No rush, I mean we have six weeks til drop and waiting to see who the magical individuals that get invites are, hopefully someone active here will. So we have time to get a list of people who want to be involved, those who will edit, etc. before anything has to be put on paper. And being gone for a few weeks wont be an issue if we have multiple edit sources and knowledgeable people, so I wouldn't be concerned about that. Anyways, I don't want to fill up your guide with posts about something else lol. Good guide. Even though I dont PvP regularly anymore, I can understand a lot of the concepts discussed. As far as I'm concerned, everyone who was going to be picked, has already been picked. The LAuncher was updated to support 3.0 today, so I'm fairly sure testing has begun. I am assuming that if you haven't gotten one yet, you won't be getting one. This is saddening, I had hoped a Vigilance or Vengeance expert would have been selected. All the top parsers for every spec and class should've gotten an invite to test 3.0, especially without an open PTS. Then again maybe they haven't chosen people yet. I'm still FIRMLY of the opinion that they should do an OPEN PTS for Disciplines only (Not for any other content.) Give us infinite commendations, credits, and augmentation kits and let us fool around with the specs at will. Edited October 17, 2014 by GrandLordMenace Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
veSev Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 As far as I'm concerned, everyone who was going to be picked, has already been picked. The LAuncher was updated to support 3.0 today, so I'm fairly sure testing has begun. I am assuming that if you haven't gotten one yet, you won't be getting one. This is saddening, I had hoped a Vigilance or Vengeance expert would have been selected. All the top parsers for every spec and class should've gotten an invite to test 3.0, especially without an open PTS. Then again maybe they haven't chosen people yet. I'm still FIRMLY of the opinion that they should do an OPEN PTS for Disciplines only (Not for any other content.) Give us infinite commendations, credits, and augmentation kits and let us fool around with the specs at will. While I agree that the PTS should be open, I understand the not wanting to get the story out before hand. Is there a way to make it solely Disciplines on the PTS? Probably, but are they going to spend the time to set up that specific build for PTS? I doubt they even considered it. That's a lot, well not sure on the effort level, of time to sink into something that really only a few would truly test it is was just Disciplines. Either way, I kind of figured that was what the patch was about this week, but I doubt that they would announcing and send invites in under a week. I'm sure they are still generating lists of players they want in for testing, so I'd imagine we wont see anything invite wise until a month til 3.0. Just a guess though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GrandLordMenace Posted October 17, 2014 Author Share Posted October 17, 2014 While I agree that the PTS should be open, I understand the not wanting to get the story out before hand. Is there a way to make it solely Disciplines on the PTS? Probably, but are they going to spend the time to set up that specific build for PTS? I doubt they even considered it. That's a lot, well not sure on the effort level, of time to sink into something that really only a few would truly test it is was just Disciplines. Either way, I kind of figured that was what the patch was about this week, but I doubt that they would announcing and send invites in under a week. I'm sure they are still generating lists of players they want in for testing, so I'd imagine we wont see anything invite wise until a month til 3.0. Just a guess though. Well the testing is under NDA so even if one of us got an invite, we wouldn't be able to discuss it. I'm fairly sure that testing has already begun, they should invite all the class reps and guidewriters to the closed PTS though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andrew_Past Posted October 17, 2014 Share Posted October 17, 2014 Well the testing is under NDA so even if one of us got an invite, we wouldn't be able to discuss it. I'm fairly sure that testing has already begun, they should invite all the class reps and guidewriters to the closed PTS though. i wouldn't complain about that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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