Perhaps it is time to rethink armor and mods.....

[LordArtemis]

Here is a what if....what if they removed mods from all armor, all stats from all armor, and instead gave us slots on our character page that we could use to install mods and augments?

 

This way, all armor in the game would be one grade, and cosmetic (except for base stats and any set bonuses). Now you could have any look you wished, and even craftable armor would be viable again.

None of the mods would have to change. They could still stand as they are. There would simply be two or three slots in each body section to install them, and the ability to add a fourth slot for an augment. Naturally a slot would exist for relics and implants as well.

 

Perhaps base armor rating could be retained, with the mods you have installed boosting that base.

 

It would make changing your look much easier, which I believe would promote the purchase of more armor sets. It would also make non-moddable and craftable armor desirable again since they would simply be appearance shells as well, or simply have the base stats. The normal costs would apply. You would not be installing mods in armor, so switching out armor would not cost you. But you would still have to pay to install mods on the mod page.

 

If they were to do it the way I suggested, you would perhaps have something like this, where a second page on your character sheet would display the mods you have installed in each section. Ctri-right click on any box would bring up the standard window used now for that type of armor.

 

This would simply assign the mods to the armor/weapon/secondary/implant/earpiece slot instead of the actual armor itself. Lack of armor in that slot would disable the mods, but they would still be open for installation.

 

Otherwise everything else remains the same....tooltips, installation screens and the like. You simply use the box instead of the armor piece, and all armor has base stats as if it was empty. The stats from the mod page boost the natural armor stats, as if those are the mods installed in that armor piece.

 

The costs would still exist to remove mods from the mods page, as well as install kits.

 

So, essentially this would return to how it was in Beta when next to NOTHING was moddable. Essentially nothing would be moddable any longer, but a secondary character mod page would instead allow you to install mods in that location.

 

So that would make everything moddable in essence, like it was originally.

 

You should listen to the Unnamed STWOR podcast, there is something in it that you would like

 

Apparently it is something they are contemplating (but at least not in the way you described it).

 

Be warned, there are some heavy spoilers at the end, the stuff you want are right after the Q&A.

 

EDIT: Skip to 0:32:16

 

It has been mentioned there are some better alternatives to removing stats from armor. I would like to list some of them here.

 

1) Simpy remove the mod extraction credit cost, and add more craftable and CM gear.

2) Create an appearance character sheet where we can drop in armor that will be our "appearance set", like companion appearance kits. Add a toggle for those that do not want to participate.

 

Both would improve the ability to customize the appearance of your character without hurting those that depend on stats on gear.

 

What do you guys think?

Edited October 18, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Clarian]

I'd like that. With the current system, all the hassle and expense of switching mods decreases the desirability of having a wide variety of looks to switch between. And since the cash shop is largely based around cosmetic armor pieces, that's not good.

 

Even if, with the proposed system, there were a nominal credit sink involved with changing armor pieces and/or mods, I'd still like it better than the current one.

[darkov]

Because then they'd spend a lot of time and money adapting the system, which for BioWare, whilst giving a bit of goodwill to the players, actually makes the system worse for them.

 

It removes credit sink that comes from moving modifications around and makes their new armor sets less desirable because they aren't power, but cosmetic.

 

Simply isn't worth their time to do it.

[annabethchase]

So the inverse of an appearance tab. Yes, we've been proposing ideas of this sort since beta.

[CabelHarn]

If recent patches has shown anything they can give us new money sinks. I really doubt the mod moving is that big of a money sink because I expect many people are like me and just simply stick to one look because of the expense.

 

I would spend more money in the cartel market (i.e. Hoth outfit) if I didn't have that expense so it'd benefit them money making wise to do it.

 

But I agree with the dude above me, we've been suggesting something like this since beta. But hopefully with changes to the dev team maybe it's something they'd consider now. Might be harder than adding appearance tabs and less monetization though since they could charge for unlocking additional appearance tabs.

[Grayseven]

What makes this better than the current customization system? Would the credit cost to change armor equal the cost to rip mods out of armor?

 

How would augments work? Would you add a Mk-9 kit to the location instead of the armor? How would armor crits then work?

 

Where would the credit sink go?

[aeterno]

I don't think they'd ever do away with moddable gear, something has to drop in operations after all and rolling for an enhancement just doesn't sound as epic =P

 

I could see an appearance tab to just put an outfit "over" your gear. Which would be even better than what you're suggesting as you could use legacy sets to share the stats between alts with minimal hassle while being free to be visually unique at the same time.

[Deewe]

Goo idea for a new MMMO but it's not that different than appearance tab.

 

Then with your system it would give the devs more work as they'll have to rework mostly all drops.

 

For now the best and most convenient way would be to add a LotRo's like appearance tabs and wardrobe.

 

Credit sink is not of an issue either as they are way better ones than making players pay to swap gear. Actually ones that won't be felt as tedious.

 

Finally we all know it would make CM and crafting gear sales increase exponentially.

So it's puzzling why the producer didn't add it yet.

[znihilist]

Here is a what if....what if they removed mods from all armor, all stats from all armor, and instead gave us slots on our character page that we could use to install mods and augments.

 

This way, all armor in the game would be one grade, and cosmetic. Now you could have any look you wished, and even craftable armor would be viable again.

 

None of the mods would have to change. They could still stand as they are. There would simply be three slots in each body section to install them, and the ability to add a fourth slot for an augment.

 

Perhaps base armor rating could be retained, with the mods you have installed boosting that base.

 

What do you guys think?

 

You should listen to the Unnamed STWOR podcast, there is something in it that you would like

 

Apparently it is something they are contemplating (but at least not in the way you described it).

 

Be warned, there are some heavy spoilers at the end, the stuff you want are right after the Q&A.

Edited October 12, 2014 by znihilist

[Deewe]

You should listen to the Unnamed STWOR podcast, there is something in it that you would like

The audio is terrible especially for people not perfectly fluent in English

 

What event was that or is there a transcript?

[znihilist]

The audio is terrible especially for people not perfectly fluent in English

 

What event was that or is there a transcript?

 

This was the NY cantina event from few days ago, but again the part you want to listen to is after the Questions and Answers segment.

 

EDIT: Skip to 0:32:16

Edited October 12, 2014 by znihilist

[Max_Killjoy]

Regardless of the details, a complete separation between appearance and stat-boosting "gear" is something I've always wanted from MMOs.

[LordArtemis]

So the inverse of an appearance tab. Yes, we've been proposing ideas of this sort since beta.

 

I am one of those folks Annabeth.

[LordArtemis]

You should listen to the Unnamed STWOR podcast, there is something in it that you would like

 

Apparently it is something they are contemplating (but at least not in the way you described it).

 

Be warned, there are some heavy spoilers at the end, the stuff you want are right after the Q&A.

 

That is fantastic news. Thanks.

[Clarian]

EDIT: Skip to 0:32:16

That is indeed awesome news. I was surprised by how soon they said it might be coming. Here's hopin'...

 

Oh yeah, and: now I'm really glad that I've always made a practice of holding on to any greens and blues that I like the look of, even if the stats are useless...juuuust in case. I'm sure I'm not the only one who does that...

Edited October 12, 2014 by Clarian

[LordArtemis]

Fair questions Grayseven. Naturally it is subjective whether or not this is better, but I will give my own opinion.

 

What makes this better than the current customization system?

 

Well, for one it would make changing your look much easier, which I believe would promote the purchase of more armor sets. It would also make non-moddable and craftable armor desirable again since they would simply be appearance shells as well, or simply have the base stats.

 

Would the credit cost to change armor equal the cost to rip mods out of armor?

 

Yes, the normal costs would apply. You would not be installing mods in armor, so switching out armor would not cost you. But you would still have to pay to install mods on the mod page.

 

How would augments work? Would you add a Mk-9 kit to the location instead of the armor? How would armor crits then work?

 

The same way they do now. If they were to do it the way I suggested, you would perhaps have something like this, where a second page on your character sheet would display the mods you have installed in each section. Ctri-right click on any box would bring up the standard window used now for that type of armor.

 

So, generally the mod page exists as a visual representation of what you have in the way of mods installed, giving stats to the armor you place in the primary screen.

 

This would simply assign the mods to the armor/weapon/secondary/implant/earpiece slot instead of the actual armor itself. Lack of armor in that slot would disable the mods, but they would still be open for installation.

 

Otherwise everything else remains the same....tooltips, installation screens and the like. You simply use the box instead of the armor piece, and all armor has base stats as if it was empty. The stats from the mod page boost the natural armor stats, as if those are the mods installed in that armor piece.

 

Where would the credit sink go?

 

I would suggest the current credit sink, cost to remove mods from armor would no longer exist, but the costs would still exist to remove mods from the mods page.

 

So, essentially this would return to how it was in Beta when next to NOTHING was moddable. Essentially nothing would be moddable any longer, but a secondary character mod page would instead allow you to install mods in that location.

 

So that would make everything moddable in essence, like it was originally.

Edited October 12, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Alphasgimaone]

It would be far easier to make all gear moddable (even quest greens) and remove the cost of pulling mods.

[Kurin]

Changing armor is a desired and useful credit sink in the game. It needs to remain that way. Augmenting armor is expensive, and it should be, because it removes a reasonable number of credits from the economy. It also puts thousands of crafters to work making augment kits. And selling augment kits, which is a significant percentage of the total economy of trade in SWTOR.

 

Selfishly, I'd love there to be some form of appearance tab in the game, but it's a myopic viewpoint. What I'd like more than this, is a way to make cartel market gear legacy bound versus character bound. I would occasionally pay the cost to re-augment. I won't pay the cost to transfer 16 mods from 1 toon to another toon on a fairly regular basis, so that 2 of my alts can cool looking armor from the cartel market.

[LordArtemis]

It would be far easier to make all gear moddable (even quest greens) and remove the cost of pulling mods.

 

Actually, that would be an increased strain on the database. Removing moddability from individual equipment and placing it on single character screen instead would be the easier way to go, at least game wise. Naturally there would be more work involved.

 

Changing armor is a desired and useful credit sink in the game. It needs to remain that way. Augmenting armor is expensive, and it should be, because it removes a reasonable number of credits from the economy. It also puts thousands of crafters to work making augment kits. And selling augment kits, which is a significant percentage of the total economy of trade in SWTOR.

 

Selfishly, I'd love there to be some form of appearance tab in the game, but it's a myopic viewpoint. What I'd like more than this, is a way to make cartel market gear legacy bound versus character bound. I would occasionally pay the cost to re-augment. I won't pay the cost to transfer 16 mods from 1 toon to another toon on a fairly regular basis, so that 2 of my alts can cool looking armor from the cartel market.

 

This proposal does not remove the ability to change armor, only the constant credit sink from each individual piece if you strip the mods out. Also, augmenting is still in play, as you augment the slot instead of the individual pieces.

 

But yes, folks would not have to augment as often, nor would they have to pay to remove mods as often either.

[Alphasgimaone]

Also, I agree that, as a credit sink, armor modding is totally obsolete.

[znihilist]

Actually, that would be an increased strain on the database. Removing moddability from individual equipment and placing it on single character screen instead would be the easier way to go, at least game wise. Naturally there would be more work involved.

 

 

 

This proposal does not remove the ability to change armor, only the constant credit sink from each individual piece if you strip the mods out. Also, augmenting is still in play, as you augment the slot instead of the individual pieces.

 

But yes, folks would not have to augment as often, nor would they have to pay to remove mods as often either.

 

Actually now I think about it, they have to implement some sort of stat tabs, because if you want to wear PvP gear you will have to remove every single item to change...

[LordArtemis]

Actually now I think about it, they have to implement some sort of stat tabs, because if you want to wear PvP gear you will have to remove every single item to change...

 

Hmm, something to think about.

 

Just to summarize....

 

Right now you install mods in armor. When you do so, the base stats are boosted, and level/quality is increased. With this proposal, all armor and gear would be treated as if it is empty of mods....but instead of putting mods in each individual piece, you would install those mods on a separate screen. They would still apply to the gear you install in the slot.

 

So, the gear still acts like it is modded when it is dropped in the appropriate slot. The only difference is that removing the piece of gear does not take the mods with it...they remain in that slot waiting for the next piece of gear you drop into it.

 

When you drop the gear piece in that slot, it installs the mods that are installed in the slot. When you remove that gear piece, the mods are uninstalled from that gear piece. This process applies to every piece you drop into the slot.

Edited October 12, 2014 by LordArtemis

[Max_Killjoy]

That is indeed awesome news. I was surprised by how soon they said it might be coming. Here's hopin'...

 

Oh yeah, and: now I'm really glad that I've always made a practice of holding on to any greens and blues that I like the look of, even if the stats are useless...juuuust in case. I'm sure I'm not the only one who does that...

 

I have a few tucked away on a handful of characters...

[Andryah]

Here is a what if....what if they removed mods from all armor, all stats from all armor, and instead gave us slots on our character page that we could use to install mods and augments.

 

This way, all armor in the game would be one grade, and cosmetic. Now you could have any look you wished, and even craftable armor would be viable again.

 

None of the mods would have to change. They could still stand as they are. There would simply be three slots in each body section to install them, and the ability to add a fourth slot for an augment.

 

Perhaps base armor rating could be retained, with the mods you have installed boosting that base.

 

What do you guys think?

 

I don't think much of the idea to be honest.

 

This is the sort of thing that is defined and implemented EARLY in the development of an MMO, NOT 3 years after it launches. So, I disagree that it is time (or appropriate) to be rethinking armor and mods for SWTOR. The armor shells and mods approach of SWTOR has it's strengths and weaknesses (like all MMOs do), but in general I have found it to be both flexible and productive in applying appearance and stats to a character as it is right now.

 

The system you propose by the way, is how it is done in TSW. And honestly, it's underwhelming IMO.

 

At the macro level, I'm wondering why MMO players insist on constantly pulling ideas from some other MMO and presenting them as "time to do it this way" proposal in an MMOs general discussion forum. It makes zero sense to strive to make every MMO a clone of every other MMO. Personally, I enjoy the differences in design approach and philosophy presented by different MMOs.

[LordArtemis]

I don't think much of the idea to be honest.

 

This is the sort of thing that is defined and implemented EARLY in the development of an MMO, NOT 3 years after it launches. So, I disagree that it is time (or appropriate) to be rethinking armor and mods for SWTOR. The armor shells and mods approach of SWTOR has it's strengths and weaknesses (like all MMOs do), but in general I have found it to be both flexible and productive in applying appearance and stats to a character as it is right now.

 

The system you propose by the way, is how it is done in TSW. And honestly, it's underwhelming IMO.

 

At the macro level, I'm wondering why MMO players insist on constantly pulling ideas from some other MMO and presenting them as "time to do it this way" proposal in an MMOs general discussion forum. It makes zero sense to strive to make every MMO a clone of every other MMO. Personally, I enjoy the differences in design approach and philosophy presented by different MMOs.

 

Fair enough. Oh, and hello Andryah. Haven't seen you in a while. I believe this is also how it done in AO, at least it is similar.

 

Just a side note, the devs have already stated they are looking at removing mods from armor, separating the two in some way....the link is in my updated OP.

Edited October 12, 2014 by LordArtemis