LightningGus Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 How are you any more or less 'disadvantaged' with or without dual spec? If all your options boil down to dps, you're always going to be dps no matter what. I'm not getting the comparison to a class that can heal or dps - how does that factor in at all? If anything, a class respecing to heals removes competition for your spot in a group. Not getting your point. A person who is currently specced healing is less likely to respec into DPS to fill an open spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandadoum Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 A person who is currently specced healing is less likely to respec into DPS to fill an open spot. and this would be a problem for you... how exactly? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 A person who is currently specced healing is less likely to respec into DPS to fill an open spot. Gotcha. How likely though do you really think it is that a person who's spec'd heals would need to respec dps to fill a spot? Would it happen? Sure, but probably not that often. I guess I'm just not seeing this as a deal breaker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightningGus Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 and this would be a problem for you... how exactly? Its not a problem if there isn't dual spec, if there is dual spec the healer could just swap into a dps spec and compete for the spot. An imperial agent sniper (which i believe can only dps correct me if I'm wrong) doesn't have the luxury of being able to swap specs and swap roles to fill open group positions easily. Its true that adding dual spec would not change this fact, but adding dual spec would allow for healers to swap to dps much more easily and compete with the sniper for the dps spot. That's the advantage dual spec would give classes with multiple roles over classes with only one role. I guess it makes sense in my head, but my thinking could be fallacious or I could be misunderstanding what you are arguing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sorenia Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Game desperately needs this very soon. Nobody wants to spec healing because they know they'll be stuck as that spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zmidponk Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 you guys must have playued a different wow than i have last time i checked (yesterday) the LFG tool is totally OPTIONAL you can: 1) make a group with your friends/guildies/server people before joining the queue Yeah, you kinda have to group with friends/guildies now if you actually want a fun time playing the instance, thus the server community has fragmented into smaller guild communities, and communities of RL friends. As for grouping with server people, how? Blizzard have systematically either removed or hamstrung the old tools used for grouping in favour of their LFG Tool. 2) don't join the queue at all and walk all the way to the instance Which would put you at the entrance to it, alone, sans group. And then what? besides... in cataclysm, you had to actually go there and discover the instance before you could enter it. meaning you would probably do it with known closeby people for the first time and get that genuine feeling. Reading between the lines, that was an attempt by Blizzard to undo some of the damage done by their LFG Tool, as this is what they thought would happen. In my experience, with the odd exception, it didn't, really. everything after that is epipc/token farming anyways, so who cares? Well, anyone who actually wants to have fun playing, even when 'epic/token farming', or have good social interaction in this massively multiplayer game. and as said: you could still do it with traditional means. Except you can't, or at least, not as easily as you could before, as Blizzard removed the tools used. so, really. i don't see how the LFG tool destroyed communities. imo, it is an absurd ranting. i have used it since it exists 5 times a day minimum and i have had zero problems with it. granted, you get some douches, but you just kick them and problem solved. you get a new guy instantly. and i have met real nice people from other servers. some of whom are now in my swtor guild. So, basically, you managed to actually get to know some people through WoW's LFG system, but, because they were on a different server, you had to move to an entirely different game before you could actually do anything like play with them on a regular basis. And you still don't see how WoW's LFG Tool was bad for the community there? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LightningGus Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Gotcha. How likely though do you really think it is that a person who's spec'd heals would need to respec dps to fill a spot? Would it happen? Sure, but probably not that often. I guess I'm just not seeing this as a deal breaker. It may not be a huge issue, but it may not be the only issue either. I just wanted to point out that dual spec will affect the over all community's dynamic to some degree. I can't say whether it would be for better or worse. It seems like some people think adding dual spec will have no consequences other than pure bliss to everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I guess it makes sense in my head, but my thinking could be fallacious or I could be misunderstanding what you are arguing. It makes sense, I just don't see it as being very likely. I was coming at it from the perspective of the healer. Why would I spec (or respec to) dps in order to get into a group, when staying with the healing spec would almost certainly get me into a group faster. I get your point, I just don't think (given past MMO history) that there will be a glut of 'LF1M need a deeps and gtg!' LFG spam that would necessitate healers respecing to dps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karcyon Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Please don't just ADD dual spec! Let us choose two speccs on the fly, like Rift. I don't want to run all the way to the fleet to change specs! This system was fantastic in rift! Not enough heal in an instance? Let the dps rogue or dps mage switch to bard/chloro etc. Perfect! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
karcyon Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Imagine you are a class that cannot spec into anything but DPS. If dual spec is implemented you now have a distinct disadvantage when it comes to trying to find a group compared to a class who can dual spec between healing and dps. That is only one way it could affect someone's gameplay. WHAT? The DPS that could also heal or tank would probably switch to Healer/Tank for an instance. That's one less DPS to compete with! Dual Spec would benefit a pure DPS the most! A Healer/Tank would not switch to DPS for an instance unless there is absolutely no DPS around! Edited December 30, 2011 by karcyon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zandadoum Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Yeah, you kinda have to group with friends/guildies now if you actually want a fun time playing the instance, thus the server community has fragmented into smaller guild communities, and communities of RL friends. As for grouping with server people, how? Blizzard have systematically either removed or hamstrung the old tools used for grouping in favour of their LFG Tool. dude the server communities where effed in the b long before the LFG system. what have you played, only last 6 month or what? what are you , in a 3man guild? Reading between the lines, that was an attempt by Blizzard to undo some of the damage done by their LFG Tool, as this is what they thought would happen. In my experience, with the odd exception, it didn't, really. what i do read between the lines is that you have no clue and you either have been extremely unlucky with your server/guild choice or you just suck at socializing. Except you can't, or at least, not as easily as you could before, as Blizzard removed the tools used. no they didn't. don't blame blizzard if you failed to have friends on your server/guild. my guild has around 60 players, very active and even if they can't come to an instance i can get a group with other people from the server. or, just use the LFG tool. i have fun playing with randoms, chatting about where they are from and stuff. if you can't do this, blame yourself, not blizzard So, basically, you managed to actually get to know some people through WoW's LFG system, but, because they were on a different server, you had to move to an entirely different game before you could actually do anything like play with them on a regular basis. And you still don't see how WoW's LFG Tool was bad for the community there? ever heard of MSN? GTALK? IRC? TWITTER? ... SOCIAL NETWORKS? oh and BTW, did you know that like for AGES already, you can add friends through battlenet and whisper them even when on a different server? no, you obviously didn't know, otherwise you wouldn't be talking all this nonsense CRAP you've been spitting out. Edited December 30, 2011 by zandadoum Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Scout Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Noone is talking about advanced class "switching". Why not? Why arbitrarily say switching roles is fine, but changing your role within your class is not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Scout Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 WoW's LFG tool worked exactly as advertised. Its pretty obvious you never played prior to it being implemented if you think 30 minutes is a hella long wait for a dungeon run to get going as DPS. Which isn't to say that WoW's implementation of cross server was flawless. It had some issues, but queue times weren't one of them. If so effective (dual spec) why was the LFD tool needed and even that had to be changed to be cross server? I mean, if a dual spec option is the answer, why do folks who want it generally also want the LDF/LFG feature? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalPrime Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 For one very important reason, it would solve the looking for healer problem. 1. Specing heals isn't enough of a boost to healing to justify it as your only spec. 2. You tend to spend 90% of the game soloing missions, and having only a heal spec slows the game down quite a bit. 3. Constantly respecing isn't really a viable option long term for many reasons. This game really could benefit from dual spec. Most classes can heal lol. Healers are everywhere... There is no need for DS in this game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DigitalPrime Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 If so effective (dual spec) why was the LFD tool needed and even that had to be changed to be cross server? I mean, if a dual spec option is the answer, why do folks who want it generally also want the LDF/LFG feature? Both systems are easy, instant gratification. So this should give you an answer to the type of player who wants these systems. LAZY! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 If so effective (dual spec) why was the LFD tool needed and even that had to be changed to be cross server? I mean, if a dual spec option is the answer, why do folks who want it generally also want the LDF/LFG feature? Because they're different tools that serve different functions? I feel like this might be a trick question. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sendrel Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Both systems are easy, instant gratification. So this should give you an answer to the type of player who wants these systems. LAZY! I'm cool with you characterizing me that way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deneeve Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Yes, please add dual spec. I would love to heal flashpoints and things, but I absolutely do not want to quest as a healer. It's tedious and very boring. But with no dual spec and expensive respec prices there is no way I'll be healing in flashpoints. No way. I'm going dps. So please, if you would like more healers in your game, please add dual spec. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bregah Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 I'm on board with this. And a group finder while we're at it. Yes to both of these. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
twisted_and_mean Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The reasons people give for not having dual spec make me wonder if they're trolling or just not particularly intelligent. Some players like being able to enjoy different aspects of the game (any combination of dps, tanking, and healing in either PvE or PvP) on the same character. No two of those roles are fully compatible in a single spec. Even same role PvE and PvP specs have differences, so you'll either be facing trade-offs for both or be suboptimal in one of them. So while you can call players wanting dual spec lazy, they can call you narrow-minded. Wonder how you like the sound of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 The reasons people give for not having dual spec make me wonder if they're trolling or just not particularly intelligent. Some players like being able to enjoy different aspects of the game (any combination of dps, tanking, and healing in either PvE or PvP) on the same character. No two of those roles are fully compatible in a single spec. Even same role PvE and PvP specs have differences, so you'll either be facing trade-offs for both or be suboptimal in one of them. So while you can call players wanting dual spec lazy, they can call you narrow-minded. Wonder how you like the sound of that. Except, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from changing specs now. All dual spec does is make it so that your character is everything whenever you want it to be...which is counter to the whole point of specs in the first place. I'm not saying that you should never be able to change your spec, but there is and should be a mechanism in place to prevent you from doing it at will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyBoy Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Except, there is absolutely nothing stopping you from changing specs now. All dual spec does is make it so that your character is everything whenever you want it to be...which is counter to the whole point of specs in the first place. I'm not saying that you should never be able to change your spec, but there is and should be a mechanism in place to prevent you from doing it at will. Hi level 50 player here who made a fortune off slicing before the nerf. I can effectively respec my character as much as I want RIGHT NOW. How does this effect you? Is your fun ruined now? Or does it not even matter whatsoever and has no effect on you but removes a level of tedium from me (i.e having to reorganize bars after every respec)? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jedi_Scout Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Because they're different tools that serve different functions? I feel like this might be a trick question. It seems both are advocated for to speed up grouping, the perceived lack of healers and tanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SlickDevlan Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 Hi level 50 player here who made a fortune off slicing before the nerf. I can effectively respec my character as much as I want RIGHT NOW. How does this effect you? Is your fun ruined now? Or does it not even matter whatsoever and has no effect on you but removes a level of tedium from me (i.e having to reorganize bars after every respec)? Ah yes, the "tedium" argument resurfaces. Has it ever occurred to any of you poor souls trapped in the "tedium" of respecs that the "tedium" is there for a reason? As I've already told so many other people here who say that "I can already respec as much as I want so what's difference?"...well, you're the one complaining about it so you tell me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HoneyBoy Posted December 30, 2011 Share Posted December 30, 2011 (edited) Ah yes, the "tedium" argument resurfaces. Has it ever occurred to any of you poor souls trapped in the "tedium" of respecs that the "tedium" is there for a reason? As I've already told so many other people here who say that "I can already respec as much as I want so what's difference?"...well, you're the one complaining about it so you tell me. Because tedium for the sake of tedium is good video game design right? Please explain to me exactly the reason it's there again, and how having to remanage my bars after every respec is a necessary and fun mechanic? Edited December 30, 2011 by HoneyBoy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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