Please introduce dual spec ASAP

[zandadoum]

I seriously have to wonder why people think dual spec will fix the healer problem, when in the Other Game, dual spec, an automated LFD tool and outright bribery didn't even come close.

i see it this way:

i don't mind playing any of the 3 (tank, heal, dps) and my main character will always be the highest level and better geared.

if i am able to switch to the proper specc when needed easily and relatively cheap, i will be able to help out other, i will be able to meet new people and i will be able to improve my char even further.

 

remember: we're not asking to be able to change adv. class. we're asking to improve what can be done already: respeccing within your adv. class.

 

i don't get why people is against this, when it's already possible.

 

i'd like to list the specifications of a "proper" dual specc system, so people understands better:

 

- only respeccing within your adv. class (already possible)

- anywhere, with a casting time, out of combat and if you like, a creasonable credit cost (gets too expensive right now)

- every specc should have it's own set of configurations: -quickbars, hotkeys, and possibly a place to store/automatically switch to, secondary set of gear

 

so, you see, except point 3, the difference between what's currently possible and what we propose, is not that much different and i don't really know why there is so much hate against it.

my guess it that the haters are people who never played any other MMO before, beyond what was available to them playing alone or sometimes in casual small groups.

anyone who has been doing groups/raids for some time will agree on this feature. even roleplayers end up agreeing for the sake of utility.

[Xzulld]

I seriously have to wonder why people think dual spec will fix the healer problem, when in the Other Game, dual spec, an automated LFD tool and outright bribery didn't even come close.

 

If dual spec is implemented, BioWare will essentially wash their hands of any problems with tank/healer leveling, as well as tank/healer ops scaling and effectively tell people to spec DPS if they don't like it.

 

Surely you are kidding. Queue times went down drastically. The problem has been lessened each time they made it easier to fill multiple roles.

 

Sure a % of the population did not make use of the features, but many did. I know I use it, I will swap to tank spec, or heal spec on my various characters to get quick instances.

 

It also gets used nearly every single raid I run becuase ultimately new content is challenging and having someone versatile with gear for the second spec makes life easy as a raid leader. No longer do I have to sit someone just becuase a fight needs more deeps, or more healing or an extra tank.

[Khamil]

The decision to change specs should cost you something, and the only real currency we have is time.

 

If you want to save 2 specs for the sake of convenience, fine. But you should still need to report to a Skill Mentor to swap them out.

 

I dont think anyone mind that it cost something to swap spec, but it should be fast.

My time is valuable to me, and your time is likely valuable to you. I dislike if my valuable time is spent by you getting your *** to the skill mentor when you need to respec for heal.

I want you to do a 10 sec channeled skill to swap tree, mkay?

Give convenience, sure make it bleed us for a little cash(just not excessively as it seems to be already) but realize it is already considered a problem by many as this 113 page thread in 4 days shows us.

[zandadoum]

Well, if they implement dual spec (and I understand they are actually planning on doing it), I will shake my head at Bioware's short-sightedness and continue to play the game.

short-sightedness in the MMO industry is not doing what the majority of your customer base wants.

even those who don't use the forums and never heard of the feature, will be very happy and welcome it when it's out.

If they implement a WoW-style LFG tool, instead of merely, say, tweaking and making more obvious the LFG options that SWTOR already has, then I will watch that destroy the server communities that are just beginning to grow in SWTOR like it destroyed the already established server communities that existed in WoW when the LFG Tool got introduced there. Whether I'll quit at that stage really depends on a lot of other factors.

i don't know what you guys hate so much about the LFG tool from wow.

what is that "destroying server community" you're all talking about?

i've played wow for 2-3 years on several servers before that cross-server tool was implemented (and i still play) and i was sick of queues because there was too much alliance and few horde, i was sick of being ganked by the same 2 guys 24/7, i was sick of seeing the same people on battlegrounds (and no community there as you could not talk to opposite faction anyways)

where was the real community? in /1 chats on main citys (and the /1 was shared across all cities, unlike here were you are totally ALONE on a planet) in your guild, on the wow server forums...

 

nothing of changed when cross server battlegrounds and LFG was implemented, except the queues improved A LOT. "au contraire": i met new nice people from other servers thx to that

 

so, i don't really understand on what planet all those people live that hate the current LFG system. maybe they haven't played so many years like me... maybe their server was just super-freaking-awesome... i don't know...

 

currently i am on a SWTOR server that was opened on release. it started light and now is standard. i am around 15 levels higher than the average player and i feel quite loney i must say. and don't even start me on heroics or flashpoints... i gave up on that quite a while ago. will focus on it when lvl50.

i'd love to have a consolidated LFG tool. be it at least server only or if possible cross server. but the current /who really sucks monsterballs.

 

a common /1 general chat for all main cities and/or planets would be nice too.

Edited December 29, 2011 by zandadoum

[Airinya]

Surely you are kidding. Queue times went down drastically. The problem has been lessened each time they made it easier to fill multiple roles.

 

Sure a % of the population did not make use of the features, but many did. I know I use it, I will swap to tank spec, or heal spec on my various characters to get quick instances.

 

It also gets used nearly every single raid I run becuase ultimately new content is challenging and having someone versatile with gear for the second spec makes life easy as a raid leader. No longer do I have to sit someone just becuase a fight needs more deeps, or more healing or an extra tank.

 

You know what's funny. So many people have poked holes in your horrible "logical" argument it's not even funny, but you refuse to recognize it. You have a more well written version of "zomg zomg I needz dual specz!!!"

 

You're like the child on the playground who is the last one to get tagged but you sit there and go "nuh-uh!!!!" so you don't have to be the one who is "it."

 

Also, if you're so sure they're going to implement dual spec then why are you even here rambling on about it? Shut up and go wait for it to happen and "prove the rest of us wrong."

[Sendrel]

The decision to change specs should cost you something...

 

Why? I still don't see the reasoning for this argument. Beyond a fee to unlock a second (or multiple) specs, I'm just not convinced that there needs to be a punitive aspect to swapping specs.

[LordSoulgrinder]

Dual Spec is a must.

[Airinya]

short-sightedness in the MMO industry is not doing what the majority of your customer base wants.

even those who don't use the forums and never heard of the feature, will be very happy and welcome it when it's out.

 

i don't know what you guys hate so much about the LFG tool from wow.

what is that "destroying server community" you're all talking about?

i've played wow for 3 years on several servers before that cross-server tool was implemented and i was sick of queues because there was too much alliance and few horde, i was sick of being ganked by the same 2 guys 24/7, i was sick of seeing the same people on battlegrounds (and no community there as you could not talk to opposite faction anyways)

where was the real community? in /1 chats on main citys (and the /1 was shared across all cities, unlike here were you are totally ALONE on a planet) in your guild, on the wow server forums...

 

nothing of changed when cross server battlegrounds and LFG was implemented, except the queues improved A LOT. "au contraire": i met new nice people from other servers thx to that

 

so, i don't really understand on what planet all those people live that hate the current LFG system. maybe they haven't played so many years like me... maybe their server was just super-freaking-awesome... i don't know...

 

currently i am on a SWTOR server that was opened on release. it started light and now is standard. i am around 15 levels higher than the average player and i feel quite loney i must say. and don't even start me on heroics or flashpoints... i gave up on that quite a while ago. will focus on it when lvl50.

i'd love to have a consolidated LFG tool. be it at least server only or if possible cross server. but the current /who really sucks monsterballs.

 

a common /1 general chat for all main cities and/or planets would be nice too.

 

I don't understand what planet you're living on that you think the WoW LFG tool worked. DPS in the WoW lfg tool still had to be in queue for about 30 minutes before they'd get a group. DPS that were idiots and had dual spec would get an insta group as a tank or a healer and then get booted because they didn't know what they hell they were doing.

 

The way you present yourself is a PERFECT example of why I don't want a LFD or dual spec system. When I can say in a chat channel, "LF1M Healer for [insert flashpoint here]" and I get a tell from someone who writes or presents themselves like you I wait for the next message.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Airinya

[Khamil]

Apologies. It was an idea that I introduced in another thread (and since I've seen others poke at it here and there - whether I was first or they thought it up on their own, I don't know) that a character would have a PvP, Heroic, and PvE spec. Just like in a Dual Spec setup, whenever you get a new talent point, you'd place it where you want to in each build... But the actual spec wouldn't "Activate" until you walked into the corresponding area.

 

So, for example, when you walk into a heroic area, your heroic spec would click into gear, complete with hotkey swapping and such that WoW was known for. Queue into PvP? Swaps out when you get there. Then, when you head into a PvE area it swaps back.

 

It is ambitious, and a lot more complicated than a Dual Spec system - I understand that. But, I believe it to be better.

 

Whatever works, right?

 

I think you failed to understand the idea of dualspec. Dualspec is to prevent swapping from spec to spec all the time you swap between solo mode and group mode. In solo you probably want dps, in groups you may be dps too, or you are the lucky huy who get to play healer. Without a dualspec syste, - would you love to pay the cost at skill mentor on your 150ieth swap for 1.5mill credits? Yes?

(number pulled out of my *** but likely closer to the mark than we'd like to think)

One setting for each type of area you venture into make absolutely no sense as it doesnt permit you to fill a role that the group needs, it only allow you to enter the role you thought you'd need in that setting.

Well, it make little sense to me.

[Sendrel]

I don't understand what planet you're living on that you think the WoW LFG tool worked. DPS in the WoW lfg tool still had to be in queue for about 30 minutes before they'd get a group. DPS that were idiots and had dual spec would get an insta group as a tank or a healer and then get booted because they didn't know what they hell they were doing.

 

WoW's LFG tool worked exactly as advertised. Its pretty obvious you never played prior to it being implemented if you think 30 minutes is a hella long wait for a dungeon run to get going as DPS.

 

Which isn't to say that WoW's implementation of cross server was flawless. It had some issues, but queue times weren't one of them.

[Englefield]

Hyperbole.

 

 

So far this thread would make a great lesson plan on fallacious, hyperbolic and rhetorical language usage.

 

 

I hope you see the irony in your own words.

 

There's also a bit too much use of Shift+f7

[zandadoum]

I don't understand what planet you're living on that you think the WoW LFG tool worked. DPS in the WoW lfg tool still had to be in queue for about 30 minutes before they'd get a group. DPS that were idiots and had dual spec would get an insta group as a tank or a healer and then get booted because they didn't know what they hell they were doing.

i have 30min. too as dps, it's still better than 2h. queue without cross server and it's still better than not grouping at all because, ya know, there is no healer.

 

so the guy that just joined your group is a douche, you vote kick him and another one comes in inmediately. or did you forget that running groups have priority in the queue? the problem is... what exactly?

The way you present yourself is a PERFECT example of why I don't want a LFD or dual spec system. When I can say in a chat channel, "LF1M Healer for [insert flashpoint here]" and I get a tell from someone who writes or presents themselves like you I wait for the next message.

judge the persons by what they do, not what they say. if you dont like the way someone talks /ignore but maybe he's still an awesome healer. or average, but good enough for what you're doing. better than zero healer anyways.

 

and now that you mention /1 LF1M ... that doesn't work on low populated servers, it doesn't work when you play at a different hour than the rest of your timezone (hello to all those who work by night and play during the mornings) and it certainly doesn't work in swtor, unless you want to be stuck in the damn imperial fleet without moving a inch. (in wow you could at least go to different cities if you wanted to use /1)

 

doing missions, exploring planets or whatever and at the same time being in the queue for a flashpoint (queue system is already half implemented: see warzone) is much better than sitting in the ugly fleet station where you can't even sit on the chairs while you wait to something to happen. oh, btw, on my server, on imperial fleet. max players present = 35. and most of them LFG Black talon... not quite my level i must say.

[Elblai]

I think you failed to understand the idea of dualspec.

I understand just fine. I wasn't trying to imitate Dual Spec, was trying to propose an alternative. It's not meant to do what Dual Spec does. It's meant to be a middle ground between the people that want and those that do not.

 

Dualspec is to prevent swapping from spec to spec all the time

... Now I do wonder who is misunderstanding... I'm pretty sure this is exactly what Dual Spec facilitates...

 

you swap between solo mode and group mode. In solo you probably want dps, in groups you may be dps too, or you are the lucky huy who get to play healer.

This isn't the DUal Spec I keep hearing people clammer for - but I like it! I think this is a great idea!

 

Without a dualspec syste, - would you love to pay the cost at skill mentor on your 150ieth swap for 1.5mill credits? Yes? (number pulled out of my *** but likely closer to the mark than we'd like to think)

I wasn't trying to talk of respec costs... Didn't touch that... Don't want to touch that. Not a part of my consideration because it's a separate suggestion.

 

One setting for each type of area you venture into make absolutely no sense as it doesnt permit you to fill a role that the group needs, it only allow you to enter the role you thought you'd need in that setting.

Well, it make little sense to me.

That's a design philosophy difference. If I understand you correctly, your philosophy says that you would rather find a group, and then fill whatever role is missing. Cool. What is currently supported is being a role, and then finding a group that needs that role. Just as cool. Only difference is the method. End result should be the same: You, in a group as a role you enjoy.

[Englefield]

To be fair this...

 

Argument from tradition: .....

 

...has been your sole argument, so it's not good form to criticise someone else for it.

[Zmidponk]

i don't know what you guys hate so much about the LFG tool from wow.

what is that "destroying server community" you're all talking about?

 

The community that was destroyed was the one where where, yes, OK, it often took longer than post LFG to get a group together, but, even on random PUGs, you usually got a good crack going, and often came across the same folks again and again, and doing the instance was generally a nice experience where you actually got some genuine social interaction. Post LFG, this became an experience where you were randomly slammed into a group with utter strangers where no-one was interested in anything bar speeding through the instance as quickly as possible, so it was the norm that you went through in almost complete silence, except for the odd arsehole who decided to lambast the group with comments about how **** they were, how awesome he was, usually followed shortly thereafter by him rage-quitting the group after he died for the fourth time, which, of course, was down to how we were all utterly crap, not, for example, him deciding to pull half the instance whilst the healer is at zero mana.

[Lethality]

I dont think anyone mind that it cost something to swap spec, but it should be fast.

My time is valuable to me, and your time is likely valuable to you. I dislike if my valuable time is spent by you getting your *** to the skill mentor when you need to respec for heal.

I want you to do a 10 sec channeled skill to swap tree, mkay?

Give convenience, sure make it bleed us for a little cash(just not excessively as it seems to be already) but realize it is already considered a problem by many as this 113 page thread in 4 days shows us.

 

Cash/credits is not currency. Your time is currency, and as illustrated by your remarks, you don't want to waste it.

 

So guess what? The quickest way to keep moving is to not re-spec at all. No time wasted whatsoever. Everyone will make due with what they have and the spec will find a way to succeed, because it costs time to do otherwise.

 

Especially at the launch of a new game, there is no need for this. They want people to play their role and class, not switch on and off like a pair of pants. Maybe when the game is more mature a few years down the road it might make sense.

 

Right now, no one is losing anything. Unless you've cleared the Eternity Vault on Nightmare Mode, there's no room for complaining. It's all been done without dual specs.

[Lethality]

Why? I still don't see the reasoning for this argument. Beyond a fee to unlock a second (or multiple) specs, I'm just not convinced that there needs to be a punitive aspect to swapping specs.

 

Because if there's a cost to it (especially time), it will deter people from doing it. Which I believe is BioWare's desired outcome - make the class/role mean something instead of diminishing it with the push of a button to swap it out.

 

Be glad the flexibility to swap specs is there at all... demanding that it travel with you is ridiculous.

[zandadoum]

The community that was destroyed was the one where where, yes, OK, it often took longer than post LFG to get a group together, but, even on random PUGs, you usually got a good crack going, and often came across the same folks again and again, and doing the instance was generally a nice experience where you actually got some genuine social interaction. Post LFG, this became an experience where you were randomly slammed into a group with utter strangers where no-one was interested in anything bar speeding through the instance as quickly as possible, so it was the norm that you went through in almost complete silence, except for the odd arsehole who decided to lambast the group with comments about how **** they were, how awesome he was, usually followed shortly thereafter by him rage-quitting the group after he died for the fourth time, which, of course, was down to how we were all utterly crap, not, for example, him deciding to pull half the instance whilst the healer is at zero mana.

you guys must have playued a different wow than i have

 

last time i checked (yesterday) the LFG tool is totally OPTIONAL

you can:

 

1) make a group with your friends/guildies/server people before joining the queue

2) don't join the queue at all and walk all the way to the instance

 

besides... in cataclysm, you had to actually go there and discover the instance before you could enter it. meaning you would probably do it with known closeby people for the first time and get that genuine feeling.

everything after that is epipc/token farming anyways, so who cares? and as said: you could still do it with traditional means.

 

so, really. i don't see how the LFG tool destroyed communities. imo, it is an absurd ranting. i have used it since it exists 5 times a day minimum and i have had zero problems with it. granted, you get some douches, but you just kick them and problem solved. you get a new guy instantly. and i have met real nice people from other servers. some of whom are now in my swtor guild.

[zandadoum]

Because if there's a cost to it (especially time), it will deter people from doing it. Which I believe is BioWare's desired outcome - make the class/role mean something instead of diminishing it with the push of a button to swap it out.

 

Be glad the flexibility to swap specs is there at all... demanding that it travel with you is ridiculous.

 

even mass effect 2 allowed respecc (after some patch or DLC, can't remember exactly now)

just FYI

[Sendrel]

Because if there's a cost to it (especially time), it will deter people from doing it. Which I believe is BioWare's desired outcome - make the class/role mean something instead of diminishing it with the push of a button to swap it out.

 

I get that you think BW is trying to slow down the pace of respecs, what I'm unsure of is why you think that's a good idea. The 'make the class/role mean something' argument is pretty weak given that you're free to respec at all. If they were truly going for a more standardized class/role system, they wouldn't allow you to respec even once.

 

So given that we're allowed to respec at all and the 'meaningful choices' argument isn't a valid response, why is it ok for the process to be tedious?

[Beratac]

Noo to dual spec...no its not needed.. Jedi/sith...lol right...jedi/smuggler...what a joke.. Leave it the way it is

[zandadoum]

Noo to dual spec...no its not needed.. Jedi/sith...lol right...jedi/smuggler...what a joke.. Leave it the way it is

 

you're either trolling, or didn't read ANYTHING in this post before replying, or you're really really stupid.

[FerrusPA]

you're either trolling, or didn't read ANYTHING in this post before replying, or you're really really stupid.

 

I vote "All of the above".

[uruz]

Dual Spec within your Advanced Class - sure, no problem - that's a feature which is currently available in the game right now. If I don't want to be an operative spec'd healer, then I can respec as to an up close stealth assassin or a ranged DOT dealer. 1st time is free while additional respecs become more costly.

 

Dual Spec of your Advanced Class [ie: being able to change from Sniper to Operative] - HELL NO. You made a permanent choice of an Advanced Class - it's your own fault if you failed to pay attention to the descriptions/skill trees before choosing.

 

I can see dual spec [within you AC] beneficial as a time saver for filling groups or that spot in raid in case the healer/tank drops and that's about it.

 

Unlike other MMO's - you're not gimped if you have a healing or tank spec - you have a companion that compliments your Advanced Class. My operative healer has no problems tearing through the game content and can solo quite a lot of the heroic 2 and any heroic 4 that doesn't require me to kill anything.

[silverdanta]

It will be in the game I would bet 2 months max. They are working on the actual concept, 2 months sounds about right for it to go through alpha/beta/test servers etc.