Please introduce dual spec ASAP

[Nicain]

This is just another reason i hate WoW. If you want WoW go play it and stop trying to ruin the great game we have here.

 

Pretty much. I'm tired of people wanting to modify this game to make it more like "WoW" or othe MMO's. Go play in panda land, I'd rather this game not become WoW, I'd rather it find it's own path as SW:TOR.

[Airinya]

Pretty much. I'm tired of people wanting to modify this game to make it more like "WoW" or othe MMO's. Go play in panda land, I'd rather this game not become WoW, I'd rather it find it's own path as SW:TOR.

 

/agreed (and I played WoW for many years)

[HailSithis]

A bit like saying Dual Spec is definitely required so that people can find a healer?

 

Like you said, logical fallacy is stupid.

 

Driz

 

 

I think a common thing being said is: "since more people will have healing and tank specs available, it should be easier to find healers and tanks". Which, seems somewhat reasonable, since if someone is able to fill more than one role, due to dual spec, role scarcity should go down as a result.

 

And, actually... this is true. We've witnessed this happen before in other games... HOWEVER, not to the extent suggested by some of the proponents.

 

What I've seen, is if someone prefers to play a certain role in a group, they won't usually be willing to leave their comfort zone in PuGs, and might wait until they find a group that they can play their preferred role in anyway.

- An example might be a Shadow Priest, who really would prefer not to switch to a Holy spec, since his gear isn't quite appropriate, and he's not good at it. So although he sees a group crying for a healer, he waits until he sees one that needs a DPS.

 

So yes. I agree with you, actually. I don't think dual spec is a magic bullet that fixes rarity of certain roles. Less popular roles will remain less popular after dual spec is implemented. But, the scarcity issue will still benefit a little, so it's still an argument in favor of dual spec...

[Xzulld]

/agreed (and I played WoW for many years)

 

Pretty much. I'm tired of people wanting to modify this game to make it more like "WoW" or othe MMO's. Go play in panda land, I'd rather this game not become WoW, I'd rather it find it's own path as SW:TOR.

 

 

Irrational responses to my post. Please reread my post, if you can actually do that and respond the facts that would be awesome. The facts are that wow and swtor share the same game environment of tightly tuned encounters as they meet specs which offer advantages for a given encounter.

 

Thanks.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Xzulld

[Truga]

I think allowing everyone who walked into a raid to complete and be useful every part isnt exactly a bad thing.

 

I agree, but not in this way. What DDO did to counter this is, 5 minutes after you start the first encounter of a raid, entrance closes. No-one goes in, after that.

[Airinya]

Irrational responses to my post. Please reread my post, if you can actually do that and respond the facts that would be awesome. The facts are that wow and swtor share the same game environment of tightly tuned encounters as they meet specs which offer advantages for a given encounter.

 

Thanks.

 

As your comments are all based on personal opinion, rather than fact, there is nothing "factual" argument to give back.

 

I play a heal spec imperial agent and it's just fine. Aside from the boosts you get to healing, including amount healed and crit chance, you also get additional healing abilities (such as the Kolto HoT).

 

The only reason WoW has bosses tuned so finely to multi-spec it because they introduced multi-spec in the first place. Unfortunately, since WoW has gone addon crazy, all boss encounters are tuned to people that actually use addons/multi-spec rather than just the game itself.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Airinya

[Dean_Corso]

Its not about wow or not wow. Its about talents which benefit different scenarios, and tightly tuned encounters.

 

Both of which this game share with wow.

 

ie, your post is nonsense.

 

If you have tightly tuned encounters, and talents that increase a given roles ability, you will have a need to place the correct spec in the correct quantities for each encounter.

 

Its a rule of the game environment, not the specific game. Wow and SWTOR share environments in the sense that they both have talent trees, they both have boss encounters which can include 1 or more tanks, and 1 or more healers for a given fight, but not necessarily the next boss in the instance.

 

All such environments require a balance of damage output, as it meets healer longevity and boss mechanics. This balance is what is meant by encounter tuning, and meeting those requirements is what I do as a raid leader. Its like a mechanic, you don't hate a given method, it just is what it is to achieve the goal of success. If you cant bring down a given boss then why even try? If you can by subbing someone out, then why not? If you could tweak the game to not need to sub that person out, then why not?

 

Actually all this above is mostly nonsense. The only valid argument i can see here is make more content where healers aren't a must have. Otherwise you just want a multipurpose character instead of just leveling a healer to play along with your existing character.... Lazy if you ask me.

[Phaedrynn]

Dual spec, like a (better) LFG tool, are things I care little about as neither will affect my game play in the least. I rolled a tank, and play as a tank. I level with guild mates who I have been friends with for quite some time and trust to know/play their class appropriately. I almost never group with anyone outside my guild (hard lessons learned), and if/when the rare occasion occurs that I do, I am very unforgiving when it comes to people knowing their class and have no problem booting someone after a couple pulls if they look shaky.

 

However, duel specs usually end up creating a large number of really bad tanks/healers. It is usually DPS that want into groups so they take a tank or healer second spec and, frankly, don't have a clue what they are doing because they never took the time to actually level in that spec and learn the mechanics properly.

 

As I said, neither of these really affect me, so I don't care one way or the other when it comes down to it. I just hope it is much lower on their priority list than fixing the large number of actual bugs (mainly UI issues) in the game now.

[Dothar]

No Duel Spec... F-ing retarded, you picked your character deal with it. OMG you have to deal with the life choice you made with your character. Now you have to deal with the choice by paying a butt load for it. Where has there every been a fork in the road you could just change over and over. LOL people have become so spoiled when it comes to MMOs lately.

 

NO LFG function... Make people shout for a group actively getting involved in making friends on the game. This has gone away with so many MMOs now a days. Everquest was the true social MMO because it actually required you to take a roll in finding and friending people to make groups instead of having a system that does it for you were you show up do something then leave.

 

MMOs are social games and should remain that way not automated. People have come so laxed with all the game doing all the social work for them.

[Basiliscus]

spamming lf1m tank, does not a friend make... Edited December 29, 2011 by Basiliscus

[Sendrel]

Likewise if BW do not implement dual speccing I do not believe the game will bleed subs.

 

Maybe. Maybe not.

 

What's pretty clear is that people like to customize things and that the ability to customize things can lead to player retention. From the UI, to character appearance, people love customization and that's all dual spec is - the ability to customize your character. Despite the bluster and derp present in threads like this. People like having options and, as a rule, will probably stay sub'd to a game longer if those options are available. Options are good, especially when they don't negatively impact your playstyle. At all.

[HailSithis]

I've read Dothar's last post at least 3 times now, and I'm STILL not sure if he's serious or not.

[Sendrel]

Have to agree on this, I could compromise on most aspects of dual speccing, but being able to switch instantly whilst in a instance or in combat is where I draw the line.

 

Why? Honestly curious why that's a deal breaker for anyone.

[Saber_Six]

Make class/role choices matter. No dual spec.

[Basiliscus]

Why? Honestly curious why that's a deal breaker for anyone.

 

well, in combat definitely could break encounters. Ok boss is doing super mega aoe phase, everyone switch to healer/tank mode! Phase done, switch back to normal!

[Okanitu]

Do not add Dual spec.

 

It simply will not work with as much synergy as it does in WoW.

 

 

In WoW you have what is it...8 or 10 DISTINCT classes? Sure, their roles blur a bit, but they are all seperate classes, spanning several different Main stats, armor types, weapon types, ect.

 

 

 

 

 

 

In SWTOR, you've got 4 classes on each side that then branch into a another class at 10. Leveling up those...there is practically NO difference in gearing a JC shadow versus a Sage. Lightsaber is the only difference.

 

 

Basically if we had dual spec, main spec Shadow's would be double-****ed in that not only would they be losing out in armor, but in weapons as well to their Sage counterparts, and visa-versa. This applies to the other classes as well.

 

 

Pick a role, and damned well stick to it.

 

Besides, I got sick and tired of idiots dual-speccing into heals/tanking that had NO idea what they were doing.

[Sendrel]

well, in combat definitely could break encounters. Ok boss is doing super mega aoe phase, everyone switch to healer/tank mode! Phase done, switch back to normal!

 

You're right, I should have been more specific. In combat is a no-no. But why out of combat during a flashpoint?

[Basiliscus]

Besides, I got sick and tired of idiots dual-speccing into heals/tanking that had NO idea what they were doing.

 

pst....I have a secret to tell you..>.> <.< ......they're going to do that anyway with normal respeccing once they find they can get a group easier.

 

also we are talking about dual specs WITHIN your AC, not AC swapping, like a shadow tank and shadow dps.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Basiliscus

[Sendrel]

Basically if we had dual spec, main spec Shadow's would be double-****ed in that not only would they be losing out in armor, but in weapons as well to their Sage counterparts, and visa-versa. This applies to the other classes as well.

 

I guess I'm not seeing the point. How is that any different than what would happen without dual spec? If gearing requirements are the same for Shadow and Sage, they'd still compete for gear with or without dual spec, no?

 

Besides, I got sick and tired of idiots dual-speccing into heals/tanking that had NO idea what they were doing.

 

People will still have no idea how to tank/heal in groups. The game is designed to be soloed for some ridiculously large percentage of the leveling experience. You don't learn how to heal and/or tank for groups solo.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Sendrel

[Airinya]

Make class/role choices matter. No dual spec.

 

Amen

[Xzulld]

As your comments are all based on personal opinion, rather than fact, there is nothing "factual" argument to give back.

 

I play a heal spec imperial agent and it's just fine. Aside from the boosts you get to healing, including amount healed and crit chance, you also get additional healing abilities (such as the Kolto HoT).

 

The only reason WoW has bosses tuned so finely to multi-spec it because they introduced multi-spec in the first place. Unfortunately, since WoW has gone addon crazy, all boss encounters are tuned to people that actually use addons/multi-spec rather than just the game itself.

 

Its not an opinion that talent trees increase a given roles ability to perform that role.

Its not an opinion that tightly tuned encounters require players to eek out every last ounce of performance from their characters.

Its not an opinion that some encounters require 2 tanks, and some do not, some encounters require more or less healers, and some encounters have strict dps requirements.

If you think these are opinions you have not explored the facts.

 

 

These are my premises, which are demonstrably true. My conclusion is that allowing easy respecs, or duel specs contribute to better Quality of life for people attempting the tightly tuned encounters. Confirmation of the accuracy of this conclusion has been seen in prior MMO's. The conclusion is demonstrably true.

 

This is sound logic with supporting evidence. Your post has done nothing to refute this. I would love for someone to line by line try to address this logical conclusion and provide detailed reasons why they disagree.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Xzulld

[Feynrod]

A full dual spec like in WoW isn't necessary. What could be done is allowing to "save" different talent layouts so that when you go to the skill mentor for respec you won't have to put all the points in manually again. I agree that cost shouldn't be prohibitive either. Basically it shouldn't come to a point when you're considering not to respec because you'd rather prefer to save the credits even though the respec would help your group and save time right away.

 

I don't think that it would impact immersion or "realism" of the gameplay since you can already respec... it's just that it takes several minutes instead of 1 min or so.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Feynrod

[Sendrel]

A full dual spec like in WoW isn't necessary. What could be done is allowing to "save" different talent layouts so that when you go to the skill mentor for respec you won't have to put all the points in manually again. I agree that cost shouldn't be prohibitive either. Basically it shouldn't come to a point when you're considering not to respec because you'd rather prefer to save the credits even though the respec would help your group and save time right away.

 

But at that point, why not go all the way and have a full dual spec system? The words 'necessary' and 'need' get thrown around a lot, but dual spec is more of a quality of life thing. Essentially, respecing every couple days with the current system is tedious. Tedium can serve a purpose, but I've yet to see anyone competently explain the need for tedium regarding respecing.

[Airinya]

Its not an opinion that talent trees increase a given roles ability to perform that role.

Its not an opinion that tightly tuned encounters require players to eek out every last ounce of performance from their characters.

Its not an opinion that some encounters require 2 tanks, and some do not, some encounters require more or less healers, and some encounters have strict dps requirements.

If you think these are opinions you have not explored the facts.

 

 

These are my premises, which are demonstrably true. My conclusion is that allowing easy respecs, or duel specs contribute to better Quality of life for people attempting the tightly tuned encounters. Confirmation of the accuracy of this conclusion has been seen in prior MMO's. The conclusion is demonstrably true.

 

This is sound logic with supporting evidence. Your post has done nothing to refute this.

 

Want to base your "facts" on the right game? This is SW:TOR, not WoW. Thanks.

[Saber_Six]

Its not an opinion that talent trees increase a given roles ability to perform that role.

Its not an opinion that tightly tuned encounters require players to eek out every last ounce of performance from their characters.

Its not an opinion that some encounters require 2 tanks, and some do not, some encounters require more or less healers, and some encounters have strict dps requirements.

If you think these are opinions you have not explored the facts.

 

 

These are my premises, which are demonstrably true. My conclusion is that allowing easy respecs, or duel specs contribute to better Quality of life for people attempting the tightly tuned encounters. Confirmation of the accuracy of this conclusion has been seen in prior MMO's. The conclusion is demonstrably true.

 

This is sound logic with supporting evidence. Your post has done nothing to refute this. I would love for someone to line by line try to address this logical conclusion and provide detailed reasons why they disagree.

 

You missed their point. WoW has encounters that require dual spec ability because WoW has dual spec ability.

 

For one espousing logic, you seem fairly intent on using the circular one.