Please introduce dual spec ASAP

[ImperialSun]

@ imperialsun

 

Edited for ease of response

 

1)If you cant see how dual speccing cheapens the game experience,

2)makes a mockery of the class system, negates the need for expertise trees,

3)causes issues for loot rolls and means classes have next to no group dependency on each other in addition to fostering an elitist us/them divide within the community

 

 

1) subjective - alot of others find it improves their game experience because they can experience the game from more angles

 

2) subjective - the tree system is meant to give classes flexibility in what role they can preform, if a rigid structure was meant to be in place, games wouldnt have skill trees.

 

3) never had a problem with it in wow, people were very nice the vast majority of the time in, even the pug cross realm lfd groups, about asking to roll for off spec if no one else needed. The fact is, people were doing this LONG before dual spec was introduced, way back in the vanilla days. The community will establish unspoken rules for this sort of thing. At the moment, I've usually had people ask if they can roll for companions.

 

Oh the occasional ninja is there, but they are there regardless of dual specs.

 

No more subjective than any of the reasons put forward for implementing it.

 

Driz

Edited December 29, 2011 by ImperialSun

[Granyala]

u'll be claiming they will patch it in any day now, even after they say its not going to happen.

 

Newsflash: They already said it will come, they just don't know when.

[Thor_Doomhammer]

Not arguing against this btw (don't really care either way), but I'm leveling a healing Operative (mid 30's atm for context), and am just not having the issues questing as a healer that people seem to be describing. I haven't once been in a position where I've wished I could have a DPS spec, in fact, using companions effectivly I've found it easier going than DPS builds on other classes I've tried out and have been able to solo most 2 man heroic quests (and a couple of 4 mans). Are other healing spec'd classes just not as well balanced for solo play or something?

[Rheinland]

The whole thing is subjective opinions.

 

We know the intent of the developers is to add dual spec at a later point or at least it was the intent at the time of that Q & A. We also know that they dont intend to add a LFD tool anytime soon. They stated that its not out of the question later down the line.

[ImperialSun]

Newsflash: They already said it will come, they just don't know when.

 

No again...they said its something they would like to add after launch.

 

I am sure there is a list as long as your arm of stuff they would like to add after launch.

 

That is not the same as saying It is definitely be added after launch....

 

Driz

[Truga]

2) subjective - the tree system is meant to give classes flexibility in what role they can preform, if a rigid structure was meant to be in place, games wouldnt have skill trees.

 

In my experience, skill trees were put into games so you could build your own character, and so that even in one class, there would be multiple classes. Later on, we got reskilling and respecing, which made the entire thing a joke. Might as well allow what guild wars allows then...

 

Oh and:

"Dual specs could well come at some point in the future - it's been discussed for sure."

 

 

This doesn't seem like a definitive answer to me, and this is a day old.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Truga

[ImperialSun]

In my experience, skill trees were put into games so you could build your own character, and so that even in one class, there would be multiple classes. Later on, we got reskilling and respecing, which made the entire thing a joke. Might as well allow what guild wars allows then...

 

Oh and:

"Dual specs could well come at some point in the future - it's been discussed for sure."

 

 

This doesn't seem like a definitive answer to me, and this is a day old.

 

Oh look, someone else who takes the comment on face value without trying to spin it to suit his agena....how refreshing

 

Driz

[Basiliscus]

In my experience, skill trees were put into games so you could build your own character, and so that even in one class, there would be multiple classes. Later on, we got reskilling and respecing, which made the entire thing a joke. Might as well allow what guild wars allows then...

 

WoW was my first game with a skill tree, and it always allowed respeccing, with a 50g cap.

 

Before that was Anarchy online, Which eventually allowed limited respeccing because they changed so many skills (leveling granted you skill points vs flat stat increases so where you put your skills meant everything) that some builds were massively nerfed.

 

But it was fairly clear how certain classes were meant to be built because their key skills were green meaning they were the easiest to raise and cost the fewest points.

[Granyala]

No again...they said its something they would like to add after launch.

 

I am sure there is a list as long as your arm of stuff they would like to add after launch.

 

That is not the same as saying It is definitely be added after launch....

 

Driz

 

 

Well you believe what you want, just don't get all emo when they do implement it.

 

I still wonder how deluded you old school guys are that you're still unable to see that an "Everquest punish yourself™" clone won't be successful in this day and age. People have changed. The audience DEVs want to reach is far broader than back in the day, as a consequence: Games have to adapt and have to be way more user friendly then before.

 

Life is change, deal with it buddy. Will help you in more areas than just playing games.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Granyala

[Ravery]

I always leveled as healer in ffxi, WoW, Warhammer, and AoC.

Less questing and doing a hole lot of dungeons to level was for me the way to level up as healer.

But SWTOR is not about grinding, but aboud the story. (and wat a great story it is as Conselar)

So i do less flashpoints and quest more, it would be great to level and do the story in a more dps spec, and still be able to change to healer if i want to do flashpoints.

Edited December 29, 2011 by Ravery

[Granyala]

(and wat a great story it is as Conselar)

 

Nice sarcasm.... *shield* ... *shield* .... *zZzZzZz*

[AlpsStranger]

Oh look, someone else who takes the comment on face value without trying to spin it to suit his agena....how refreshing

 

Driz

 

That doesn't shake my confidence in the long term one bit, but it does make me wonder how long it will take.

 

I remain 100% certain that these so-called "ez-mode" features are coming eventually.

 

I will, however, do the honest thing and remove the older quote from my signature.

[Truga]

WoW was my first game with a skill tree, and it always allowed respeccing, with a 50g cap.

 

Before that was Anarchy online, Which eventually allowed limited respeccing because they changed so many skills (leveling granted you skill points vs flat stat increases so where you put your skills meant everything) that some builds were massively nerfed.

 

But it was fairly clear how certain classes were meant to be built because their key skills were green meaning they were the easiest to raise and cost the fewest points.

 

And that's all fine and dandy. What I'm saying is, if you allow dual spec, you might as well just simply do what Guild Wars did. Over there, as long as you were in a safe area (i.e. town), you could flip around your skills and attributes all you wanted.

 

Guild Wars was a hugely different game, that focused primarily on competitive pvp, rather than pve though. I still think in a pve game, having no easy respecing will make characters in parties more diverse. With dual spec, you can keep a cookie cutter spec always handy.

[ImperialSun]

Well you believe what you want, just don't get all emo when they do implement it.

 

I still wonder how deluded you old school guys are that you're still unable to see that an "Everquest punish yourself™" clone won't be successful in this day and age. People have changed. The audience DEVs want to reach is far broader than back in the day, as a consequence: Games have to adapt and have to be way more user friendly then before.

 

Life is change, deal with it buddy. Will help you in more areas than just playing games.

 

Dont seem to remember saying the game should punish...

 

All I am saying is the game should not give you access all temps / classes at the same time with an instant switching ability that has no cost or effort associated with it.

 

What you want is a MMORPG with all the faceroll simplicity of COD...that is adapting too far imo.

 

You guys already have the ability to respec at any time...you just dont like the conditions associated with doing so....thats the bottom line. You want the options without any of the cost or limitations that the game design requires.

 

Like I said, self entitled and nothing more.

 

Driz

[Granyala]

I still think in a pve game, having no easy respecing will make characters in parties more diverse.

 

Oh yeah loots of class combinations constantly typing "LF Tank" in LFG chats... hooraay diversity!

 

With dual spec, you can keep a cookie cutter spec always handy.

 

W/o Dual spec you still just use your cookie cutter spec because everything else gets flamed by the community. Especially if content does get harder than "zomg tank'n'spank".

Edited December 29, 2011 by Granyala

[Basiliscus]

And that's all fine and dandy. What I'm saying is, if you allow dual spec, you might as well just simply do what Guild Wars did. Over there, as long as you were in a safe area (i.e. town), you could flip around your skills and attributes all you wanted.

 

Guild Wars was a hugely different game, that focused primarily on competitive pvp, rather than pve though. I still think in a pve game, having no easy respecing will make characters in parties more diverse. With dual spec, you can keep a cookie cutter spec always handy.

 

Oh, I'm certainly not against the idea, i prefer some kind of structure myself, but if it gives more people options to have fun, and makes groups easier to put together, then sweet.

[Rheinland]

currently respecs are in game for a fee allowing you to swap if need be.

 

Dual spec would more than likely be for a credit sink. Respecing would still have a fee. At this point in development we havent seen anything on theorycrafting for making any cookie cutter specs. This means more respecs as people try to figure out what fits there play style the best.

 

The amount spent would problably stay aroud the same.

[ImperialSun]

Oh yeah loots of class combinations constantly typing "LF Tank" in LFG chats... hooraay diversity!

 

W/o Dual spec you still just use your cookie cutter spec because everything else gets flamed by the community. Especially if content does get harder than "zomg tank'n'spank".

 

1. Your opinion, others disagree, including BW which is why they have said no to LFD.

 

 

2. Thats a problem with elitism in the community. It is not a reason for dual spec imo.

 

Driz

Edited December 29, 2011 by ImperialSun

[Rheinland]

Thats a problem with elitism in the community. It is not a reason for dual spec imo.

 

Driz

 

So the community is already failing then?

[MackumDog]

Please dont introduce it.

 

Please dont dumb this game down into one uber type player wins everything, if a player wants to raid, then let them create a good raid char, if they want to pvp then let them create a good pvp char. but for godsake lets not have average wanna be everything chars because people want everything in lazy mode.

[Granyala]

What you want is a MMORPG with all the faceroll simplicity of COD...that is adapting too far imo.

 

Sorry, I honestly never played "CoD" It's a Shooter if i'm not mistaken, is it?

 

You guys already have the ability to respec at any time...you just dont like the conditions associated with doing so....thats the bottom line. You want the options without any of the cost or limitations that the game design requires.

 

I don't know. I'm a healer. I don't respec. Sure sometimes I wish I could, but I don't waste moneyto respec for questing. o_O

 

Thats a problem with elitism in the community.

 

Give it time. The game is still new. Elitism will be here too soon enough. LoL It's already here... see above

Edited December 29, 2011 by Granyala

[AlpsStranger]

Please dont dumb this game down into one uber type player wins everything, if a player wants to raid, then let them create a good raid char, if they want to pvp then let them create a good pvp char.

 

So levelling two characters is "harder" than levelling one? It requires more intelligence? How So?

 

I wasn't aware that intelligence corresponded with the ability to perform repetitive tasks. I always assumed that's what automotive production robots were for. I guess you learn something new every day.

[ImperialSun]

So the community is already failing then?

 

No I dont consider for one second that the community would force people to use cookie cutter specs or face ridicule.

 

I was simply stating that if they were the case it would be a community issue, not a reason to demand dual spec.

 

Driz

[Truga]

Oh yeah loots of class combinations constantly typing "LF Tank" in LFG chats... hooraay diversity!

If there's a lack of tanks now, there will be a lack of tanks with dual spec. If someone wants to play DPS, they'll play DPS. Much like that argument about ninja looters staying ninja looters even without reason, or nubs being nubs, with or without dps meters.

W/o Dual spec you still just use your cookie cutter spec because everything else gets flamed by the community. Especially if content does get harder than "zomg tank'n'spank".

I personally play with people that use specs they enjoy playing, and I've never had problems in any game, even when content did get harder than "zomg tank'n'spank". In fact, I haven't even heard of this term before coming to this game. Even with dual spec, I probably won't have a cookie cutter setup, because most cookie cutter setups play like crap in my experience.

[GabrielKD]

I support the idea of dual spec.

For example to have a setup for Commando Battle Medic, and Commando Damage.

I wish to heal and/or tank, but not be a pain to solo stuff when i don't feel like grouping.