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Took long break - What happened to 8 vs 8 ranked?


Lhancelot

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That's my question. I quit when 50 was cap level, and I recall we did 8 vs. 8 ranked warzones and it worked fine. Why did they remove those, and make it this 4 vs. 4, arena style pvp?

 

4 vs. 4 is ok if you are in the mood, but doesn't it get old repeating small death matches over and over? At least with the 8 vs. 8 warzones more strategy is needed and I know I don't get quite as bored recycling these larger warzones.

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That's my question. I quit when 50 was cap level, and I recall we did 8 vs. 8 ranked warzones and it worked fine. Why did they remove those, and make it this 4 vs. 4, arena style pvp?

 

4 vs. 4 is ok if you are in the mood, but doesn't it get old repeating small death matches over and over? At least with the 8 vs. 8 warzones more strategy is needed and I know I don't get quite as bored recycling these larger warzones.

 

Because those who make decisions about PvP in this game are morons.

 

/end

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While I do agree that arenas get much more repetitive than 8v8's, I find that arenas is the best way to determine individual skill. And isn't ranked supposed to be the best of the best competing each other?

 

>best way to determine individual skill

>team game

 

good how?

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Another boneheaded BW/EA decision that baffles me.....the 8 v 8 worked fine, everything was in place, not much work to do for BW except season rewards. Baffling to remove content for no reason when the player base is constantly asking for more. It also would have given ranked people an option if they didn't like arena's. Another bad decision that further butchered the player base..... pushed a lot of competitive and skilled pvper's away from the game that have never come back. Le sigh....
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Still shows each individuals skill for their respective roles like dps, tank etc.

 

no it wont actually determine the player skill in team environment , like chess elo that is 1 vs 1

in the solo ranked (team based) your success are highly determine by your team mate, if your team mates using all pve gear then you can be sure you lose or afkers

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While I do agree that arenas get much more repetitive than 8v8's, I find that arenas is the best way to determine individual skill. And isn't ranked supposed to be the best of the best competing each other?

 

LOL too funny cause when your stuck against 4 dps juggs takes real skill to win. I mean how many commandos you see que??? Not more then assassins. Yes you are right at one point but not all. It does bring out skill but for those not playing the mainstream class.

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LOL too funny cause when your stuck against 4 dps juggs takes real skill to win. I mean how many commandos you see que??? Not more then assassins. Yes you are right at one point but not all. It does bring out skill but for those not playing the mainstream class.

 

This. I'll agree that 4v4 ranked is more of a showcase of an individuals particular skill because there are less people involved and overall there is no objective aside from your skill with regards to beating your opponent in your respective role. That said, it's still a team effort, so where your individual skill is of value, 4v4s are terrible because they're much more susceptible to the metagame. Which means because they're so small, you must run the FOTM composition to be competitive. You still saw this in 8v8, but because they were more objective based, cetain classes worked better in certain War Zones and because you couldn't decide which War Zone you got, you saw people running different comps which was nice and refreshing.

 

The problem with 8v8 was that there was never a reward or rank system implemented for it, this made people not want to queue for 8v8 ranked and it made it difficult for people that did want to queue for 8v8 ranked to find others that would join the queue with them. This resulted in very little participation throughout many of the servers in the game. So BioWare took this as 8v8 was too difficult and too big for the players to find participants and they implemented 4v4 ranked and removed 8v8 ranked entirely.

 

BioWare has stated that they don't have any current intentions on bringing back 8v8 ranked, which is a shame, because it was much funner and far less exclusive. Coordinating with 7 other players > coordinating with 3 other players IMO. Besides, I like team objectives and goals for PVP, so 8v8 was more fun for me in general. 4v4 is also fun, but it's something that I would rather do competitively on occasion rather than be forced to do it all the time if I want to get some rank and prestige, know what I mean?

 

That said, implementing ranked 4v4 and ranked 8v8 would split the PVP community up a lot more, making it difficult for those who prefer arenas and those that prefer war zones to be on the same page, especially since the PVP community isn't large enough anymore to do both. Which means it has to be one or the other and right now it's 4v4, because the reasoning behind it is that organizing 4v4 ranked is much easier than organizing 8v8 ranked and that, for the most part, is true.

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This.

The problem with 8v8 was that there was never a reward or rank system implemented for it, this made people not want to queue for 8v8 ranked and it made it difficult for people that did want to queue for 8v8 ranked to find others that would join the queue with them. This resulted in very little participation throughout many of the servers in the game. So BioWare took this as 8v8 was too difficult and too big for the players to find participants and they implemented 4v4 ranked and removed 8v8 ranked entirely.

 

I don't remember what server I was on long ago, but it was a PVP server, and 8 vs 8 ranked always popped. Never had trouble getting people to participate in it.

BioWare has stated that they don't have any current intentions on bringing back 8v8 ranked, which is a shame, because it was much funner and far less exclusive. Coordinating with 7 other players > coordinating with 3 other players IMO. Besides, I like team objectives and goals for PVP, so 8v8 was more fun for me in general. 4v4 is also fun, but it's something that I would rather do competitively on occasion rather than be forced to do it all the time if I want to get some rank and prestige, know what I mean?

 

This is exactly my thought on this... I rather do 4 vs 4 when in the mood, but 8 vs 8 is more fun for me.

That said, implementing ranked 4v4 and ranked 8v8 would split the PVP community up a lot more, making it difficult for those who prefer arenas and those that prefer war zones to be on the same page, especially since the PVP community isn't large enough anymore to do both. Which means it has to be one or the other and right now it's 4v4, because the reasoning behind it is that organizing 4v4 ranked is much easier than organizing 8v8 ranked and that, for the most part, is true.

 

^ Makes me sad. :(

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They worked "fine". Unless you left like literally right after 8v8 ranked came out, they weren't working fine. The top guilds (that didn't leave when ranked was delayed in the first place) wrecked people for awhile and left after a month and pops started dying down to just when guilds organized to get games going. Every warzone had a problem (Hutball clicking macros, ACW whoever captures side first wins, NC 30 min matches with no South cap, VS first door stalemates).

 

There was no support or updating from BW and so ranked stayed in pre-season until they were removed. So everyone stopped trying.

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They worked "fine". Unless you left like literally right after 8v8 ranked came out, they weren't working fine. The top guilds (that didn't leave when ranked was delayed in the first place) wrecked people for awhile and left after a month and pops started dying down to just when guilds organized to get games going. Every warzone had a problem (Hutball clicking macros, ACW whoever captures side first wins, NC 30 min matches with no South cap, VS first door stalemates).

 

There was no support or updating from BW and so ranked stayed in pre-season until they were removed. So everyone stopped trying.

 

I posted this in another thread...

 

Also, the balancing in this game isn't highly conducive to building a community like that. It's been a DPS race for a long time now, and with TTK/CC/HP being out of ratio it's not as if it's a simple fix.

 

As much as players claim to have wanted Ranked to work, they didn't. I get it.. Smash was a high damage spec. Vigilance was no slouch though, and neither was Combat but teams would have rather taken the 3 button easymode specs and it really narrowed down the kind of players that were interested in playing with a team. If you hated playing smash more than you enjoyed playing with a team it was a no brainer: Don't play with a team.

 

Not many teams were willing to see what they could do with other specs. Players that didn't understand how to play them properly branded them as weak and other players followed like sheep. There was no variety, no true competition even when Ranked was at it's most popular. The entire community was waiting for the next FOTM to drop so they could swap to that.

 

That's not competitive at all, that's lazy.

 

While I may be specifically referring to Warzones, the same holds true for Arenas.

 

Laziness sqaushed the competitive scene here a long time ago; Laziness by the developers, laziness by the players.

 

Apathy continues to hold it down; Apathy from the developers, apathy from the players.

 

Players had a heavy hand in the exit and death of Ranked Warzones.

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I posted this in another thread...

 

 

 

Players had a heavy hand in the exit and death of Ranked Warzones.

 

Ranked was dying long before Smash got buffed in 1.4. I would squarely put the blame for ranked not being successful on ranked getting delayed from 1.2 to 1.3. Almost every competitive guild moved to another game at that time. We were lucky enough to see some come back, but they were gone by the time 1.4 rolled around and those who were left merged together to get the few PvP guilds that were running ranked. And then we had Rage/Bubblestun/CC change that drove a number of players away as well.

 

I won't say the community was amazing, but it certianly wasn't the primary reason for the downfall of ranked, just a catalyst for expediting it's demise.

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Players had a heavy hand in the exit and death of Ranked Warzones.

 

Somewhat I guess, but this was after many months of attrition from a failing PvP end game mechanic, which is a direct result to your post. I think if they had introduced Ranked 8's when they were supposed too, we might have seen a better "player response". People tend to forget, during the time of 8's, we had tons of awful things going on (bubble stuns, respecs in WZ's, some AC's totally outperforming others, /stuck, etc), so I think players adapted as best as they could. I'd say about 2-3 months in, was when the attrition hit its highest peak; guilds merged, lot of good players unsubbed, peeps flipped factions to roll with what was left of the remaining "elite peeps", servers merges, etc., which literally ties into what you are saying.

 

A small percentage of peeps went in with what they knew worked, and other specs, classes, comps, strats, etc was hardly tried (totally agree here). This again, points to the ultimate failure of the Dev team. No seasons to switch it up, no match-making system, no fixes to outstanding game breaking issues inside 8's and just a general we don't give 2 chits about Ranked. When the games management doesn't care, players tend to follow suit, thus the massive (and I mean massive) decline in players from August 2012 to December 2012. EA/BW lost their chance to retain a solid PvP base during the 1.2 fiasco, when they pulled Ranked 8's 24 hours before 1.2 went live. It was during that time we saw the beginning of the 'decline" of PvP, and it only got worse. I don't think this rests on the players at all, and the blame should fully be aimed at EA/BW because honestly they did a craptastic job. Gabe failed, period.

Edited by Pistols
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Ranked was dying long before Smash got buffed in 1.4. I would squarely put the blame for ranked not being successful on ranked getting delayed from 1.2 to 1.3. Almost every competitive guild moved to another game at that time. We were lucky enough to see some come back, but they were gone by the time 1.4 rolled around and those who were left merged together to get the few PvP guilds that were running ranked. And then we had Rage/Bubblestun/CC change that drove a number of players away as well.

 

I won't say the community was amazing, but it certianly wasn't the primary reason for the downfall of ranked, just a catalyst for expediting it's demise.

 

I know I specifically referenced Smash, but I was referring to any spec that was viewed as favorably out of balance.

It was the easy way to win. Pretty soon it became about who could play those specs with less error. There was no variance. Prospective ranked players looked at the situation and asked themselves if they wanted to be relegated to playing that way (a very boring way, I might add). The answer was a resounding no.

 

As I said:

 

Laziness killed it, by both the players and the developers.

Apathy prevents it from returning, by both the players and developers.

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Which means it has to be one or the other and right now it's 4v4, because the reasoning behind it is that organizing 4v4 ranked is much easier than organizing 8v8 ranked and that, for the most part, is true.

 

The sad thing is? Many (not all, but many) of the folks that complained that getting 8 people together was hard, now say the exact same thing about 4.

 

Because the issue was never "finding 8 people," it was "finding 8 people who were already really good and not on someone else's team - OR 8 people who were willing to learn."

 

Now, that's not to say that I blame them - if you're starting from the bottom, how much learning are you going to do in matches where you're getting flattened so hard that it would be hard to call it an opportunity to practice much of anything? It really needed to launch WITH cross server, so those teams could learn playing each other, and rise to the limits of their individual skill potential with practice. But that's not what we got. :/

Edited by Gnoblesse
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