Wow, going to fix Conquests?

[DarthTHC]

I watched them fall as far as 95k .... It is happening...

 

Interesting. It's nowhere near that low on my server. I'd probably buy a bunch at that price.

[Psychopyro]

Interesting. It's nowhere near that low on my server. I'd probably buy a bunch at that price.

 

I did, I blew a couple million.... sadly, no Sand Crawler... /wrist

[DarthTHC]

Unlike you, I really don't care why the hell they're doing it. I'm simply pointing out that the advantage crafting has right now is absolutely ludicrous!!!

 

OK, so it's not a P2W concern but that crafting is a more efficient method to gain points than others?

 

Does that consider the rest of the effort that goes into crafting (ignoring for the moment P2W) like obtaining materials the old-fashioned way (running gathering missions) and all the other, non-Conquest rewards that come from doing all the other activities that also happen to generate Conquest points?

 

I mean, crafting for points seems easy to me, but I've been a "professional" crafter in MMO's for over a decade. It should seem easy to me. It also seems pretty useless outside of the points. Neither I nor my guild needs any more Invasion Forces and they sure as heck aren't going to sell on GTN, right?

 

Not that getting points via Flash Points or Ops is hard, either, because I'm pretty good at those, too. But when I do those things, I also get commendations and a chance at gear that might improve a companion or alt.

 

Getting points via PvP, I think would also not be hard because we just have to participate, not win, and, hey, I can be a pylon all day. I suspect I would probably get other stuff for that, too, probably more if I won than lost. But I don't PvP so /shrug.

 

Shouldn't the "balance" we're striving for include all the aspects of the game and not focus solely on one piece of it?

[TUXs]

OK, so it's not a P2W concern but that crafting is a more efficient method to gain points than others?

 

Does that consider the rest of the effort that goes into crafting (ignoring for the moment P2W) like obtaining materials the old-fashioned way (running gathering missions) and all the other, non-Conquest rewards that come from doing all the other activities that also happen to generate Conquest points?

 

I mean, crafting for points seems easy to me, but I've been a "professional" crafter in MMO's for over a decade. It should seem easy to me. It also seems pretty useless outside of the points. Neither I nor my guild needs any more Invasion Forces and they sure as heck aren't going to sell on GTN, right?

 

Not that getting points via Flash Points or Ops is hard, either, because I'm pretty good at those, too. But when I do those things, I also get commendations and a chance at gear that might improve a companion or alt.

 

Getting points via PvP, I think would also not be hard because we just have to participate, not win, and, hey, I can be a pylon all day. I suspect I would probably get other stuff for that, too, probably more if I won than lost. But I don't PvP so /shrug.

 

Shouldn't the "balance" we're striving for include all the aspects of the game and not focus solely on one piece of it?

Ah, I get it, now you're just arguing to argue.

 

My contention, from the start, is that Bioware will not address crafting because it's very beneficial to them not to. I have called it P2W because it can most clearly be used to get an advantage in conquests. They've nerfed everything that even got close to competing with it, to oblivion. That speaks volumes to me. The cartel market benefits from crafting...they won't change that.

 

I challenge you to hit 35k in a week just PvPing. Time yourself and tell me how long it took you.

[DarthTHC]

Ah, I get it, now you're just arguing to argue.

 

My contention, from the start, is that Bioware will not address crafting because it's very beneficial to them not to. I have called it P2W because it can most clearly be used to get an advantage in conquests. They've nerfed everything that even got close to competing with it, to oblivion. That speaks volumes to me. The cartel market benefits from crafting...they won't change that.

 

I challenge you to hit 35k in a week just PvPing. Time yourself and tell me how long it took you.

 

It would take however long warzones took plus however long it took to pop them times however many I had to do based on the value of warzones for the conquest my guild picked this week divided by 35k. I'm going to guess a few hours? How long do war zones usually run for? But if it's all the same to you, I'll stay out of them because I don't PvP.

 

I could tell you how long it takes to get 35k via the PvE options... PvE, I do. The answer is, short enough that I can get there on 2 or 3 of my level 55 characters in a week, depending on what else I have going on that week.

 

Where are you going with that?

[robertthebard]

Effort? What are you talking about? Are you honestly suggesting that crafting takes any effort at all? You queue it up and log off!!! Running an Ops? That takes "effort". Maybe not for you if all you do is hook up with people who are putting effort into it, but it sure as hell takes effort from the guy who starts the group. It also requires you to be ATK to do an Ops/FP/Heroic, even if the damn thing is 45 levels below you...crafting is the P2W way to do conquests and the only one you can do while offline. How the hell do you call that "effort"?

 

Yep, because the mats and the credits to get them just grows on trees. Just out of curiosity, however, where does P2W come in? Can you just throw your wallet at guaranteed crafting mats now? Mostly, if I'm "P2W" crafting, it's the credits that I have to grind for, or the mats that I have to grind for gathering on planets. Both of which require me to be ATK, actually playing the game. Can I have 4 comps out gathering mats while I'm grinding out credits? Sure, but so can you, and so can anyone else that wants to do it. If I were going to take this approach to Conquest, I would spend my entire gaming time logging in and out between 14 alts, keeping comps busy either gathering, or crafting mats.

 

This is exactly why I've made my conquest goal exactly twice since it's inception: Firstly, it's largely irrelevant, and secondly, it's a real PITA to keep it going, so I just don't. So what happens if I win? Ooh, I get my name on a leaderboard, yeah, that's a life changing event right there. I have more important, to me, things to worry about, like 70 comps that aren't all at maxed affection, or maxed on gear, and 14 toons that aren't all sporting BiS gear yet either. The biggest expenditure, gathering the mats, is actually good for the game, since it can pull insane amounts of credits out of the game, if a significant number of people are using their comps to gather.

 

A full circuit of my 50+ toons, sending 5 comps out to gather, costs an average of 192,500 credits, per run. If I do that every hour, in a 5 hour span, that's 962,500 credits sucked out of the game, with no absolutely guaranteed returns, some of those comps are going to fail missions, which means I'm out credits for 0 gain. That's just me, running 11 toons. Multiply that by 1000, assuming there are that many people running the same number of toons, which is likely a very low estimate, game wide, and this system shows what they had in mind with crafting. It also explains why we have morons listing a single piece of Beryllius for 1 billion credits: They don't have enough money to sustain their crafting, and they're sincerely hoping that somebody out there is as stupid as they are.

[robertthebard]

Too much for who? You? Everyone? Do you now speak for everyone playing? Where are your facts? Sources? Metrics? Or are you basing this on your own personal beliefs?

 

So it's ok for you to speak for everyone, but not ok for someone else? P2W means dipping into your wallet, a position you have already waffled away from with the "...and nobody would use comps to gather mats" line. Since using comps means they are, in fact, not dipping into their wallet to "P2W", they aren't, in fact P(aying)2W. They are using credits, which are earned in game, so they are, in fact, P(laying)2W, right? Apologies if that's what you actually meant to say, since it stands to reason that if you're arguing they're gathering with comps, they can't possibly be guilty of P2W by the classic definition.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

They've nerfed everything that even got close to competing with it, to oblivion. That speaks volumes to me. The cartel market benefits from crafting...they won't change that.

 

I challenge you to hit 35k in a week just PvPing. Time yourself and tell me how long it took you.

 

They have? Strange I thought guilds were utterly abusing the operation last boss trick this week as they did the other week, not seeing a nerf there? Granted it was lazy of them to set FPs to one time from repeatable rather than fix the bugged flashpoint mechanics that let you skip 99% of the flashpoint and then invite your guildies in.

 

Also on PVP is it still not possible for preformed groups to be made and effectively throw matches etc. to quickly get the participation and win points? Just like in GSF with people purposely dieing etc. - I imagine preformed groups speed this along somewhat.

I've not tried it myself so uncertain as to how valid that is.

[AshlaBoga]

Ah, I get it, now you're just arguing to argue.

 

My contention, from the start, is that Bioware will not address crafting because it's very beneficial to them not to. I have called it P2W because it can most clearly be used to get an advantage in conquests. They've nerfed everything that even got close to competing with it, to oblivion. That speaks volumes to me. The cartel market benefits from crafting...they won't change that.

 

I challenge you to hit 35k in a week just PvPing. Time yourself and tell me how long it took you.

 

Depends on the week. If it's a Conquest with lots of PvP (kills and the like) and I've got a planetary bonus then 4-6 hours will suffice. Otherwise... haven't even tried.

 

I get most of my points crafting stuff that I farm in my Stronghold (3 hour timer isn't that bad when you have 22 toons).

[Kalfear]

I ve reported it and I also pointed out the cheat, but bioware for 5th week in the raw, doesnt care, they always add the same objectives (its all about OPS, the 2 OPS objectives and 1 repeatable)...

 

So you wasted a report reporting nothing

 

and now your whining that you dont like the activities in the conquest content

 

Well dont take part them.

I do not like 55 warzones so I DONT DO 55 Warzones

no one is forcing you to do this content if you dont like what its about.

 

what happens is, if you have a guild with 30-40-50 people you pre-kill all bosses till the PRE LAST boss, NOT THE LAST... Then you disband the group and you have 8 characters saved in the last boss..

 

Well scine Tuesday is a reset of the entire game the guild that did that monday would be SOL come tuesday as it all would have been reset.

So contrary to your opinion this CAN NOT BE DONE day 1 of the new week

 

ps: its not a cheat from guilds, Bioware gives them that possibility... Is a cheat by bioware... They ditch the small guilds, lvling guilds and pvp guilds. They probably try to disband them. Because with that thing, these small guilds, will never make it to be first or second or 5th.... And some people love titles and stuff, so they leave and enter into that guilds and at the end they destroy the smaller guilds. [/Quote]

 

STOP WHINING ABOUT BEING A SMALL GUILD!

ITS YOUR CHOICE

Recruit

Join a big guild

add a couple characters to big guild but leave mains in small guild

there is penty of ways around the big guild vrs small guild issue

STOP WHINING

 

And the crafting thing, is a lie... Its the 6-7th week so crafting materials are over. I know that from my guild also! I may be able to make 50-60 invasion forces per week, first day, but all other crafting materials must be farmed be able to craft more. I dont have any stock left and my guildies as well.

 

You are delusional

I logged in Tuesday with 4 characters sitting at 12.500 conquest points each x housing bonus and a 5th character with a 14,000 conquest points x housing bonus. (5 companions each crafting 5items each at 500 points a item. And then a 5th character removing one item and adding in a invasion force for 2000 points (1 time per legacy))

 

Thats 64,000 conquest points X strong hold bonus of 62% before I even played a single thing

*btw thats 103,680 conquest points total*

 

That doesn't seem like a lie to me

 

lets say your guild has 50 players do that

 

Thats opening day 5,184,000

 

By crafting alone

 

There is no exploit

There is no cheating

and

Crafting really is all that

 

Math is your friend

Edited October 2, 2014 by Kalfear

[Capt_Beers]

I can't decide if I like this thread or it's giving me cancer.

[robertthebard]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how clearing to the last boss, disbanding and making 8 groups instead of one isn't an exploit, but stealthing to the end of a FP and then inviting people for the final boss is. Both are giving the group the ability to skip all but the last boss in the content. I fully expect that the people doing it will be all "It's not an exploit, because you can do it in game"...

 

Not that it matters to me, cheat, not a cheat, the rewards are irrelevant to anything I do, so more power to you. I will, howver, be having some popcorn from my private stash if they decide that it is indeed an exploit, and try to fix it. I wonder how much rage will be generated. Will we need our asbestos suits to come near the forums?

[Kalfear]

I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around how clearing to the last boss, disbanding and making 8 groups instead of one isn't an exploit, but stealthing to the end of a FP and then inviting people for the final boss is. Both are giving the group the ability to skip all but the last boss in the content. I fully expect that the people doing it will be all "It's not an exploit, because you can do it in game"...

 

Not that it matters to me, cheat, not a cheat, the rewards are irrelevant to anything I do, so more power to you. I will, howver, be having some popcorn from my private stash if they decide that it is indeed an exploit, and try to fix it. I wonder how much rage will be generated. Will we need our asbestos suits to come near the forums?

 

During the week I agree should be fixed

 

But person I was replying to was talking about opening day points and you cant do that opening day

If you run to last boss Monday night and then come back opening day Tuesday to do that

ITS FULLY RESET

 

His complaint was these guilds with millions day 1 and he cited this abuse as part of the way to get the opening day numbers.

 

I suppose some guild could run Tuesday after servers go up and do that but from what Ive seen hes complaining about the points gathered BEFORE they can do that.

 

Point blank he said the crafting numbers were a lie and I showed clearly they are not (even on the worst points of the week selection).

 

Doing that exploit is clearly abuse but its not apart of the opening day numbers he was whining about.

[DarthTHC]

During the week I agree should be fixed

 

But person I was replying to was talking about opening day points and you cant do that opening day

If you run to last boss Monday night and then come back opening day Tuesday to do that

ITS FULLY RESET

 

His complaint was these guilds with millions day 1 and he cited this abuse as part of the way to get the opening day numbers.

 

I suppose some guild could run Tuesday after servers go up and do that but from what Ive seen hes complaining about the points gathered BEFORE they can do that.

 

Point blank he said the crafting numbers were a lie and I showed clearly they are not (even on the worst points of the week selection).

 

Doing that exploit is clearly abuse but its not apart of the opening day numbers he was whining about.

 

The only way to get several hundred thousand (or more) points in the first hour or two of a conquest event is to prepare a crafting bomb ahead of time. It is a strategy most everyone who intends to win an event uses. It's not a secret.

[MeNaCe-NZ]

It's easily fixable too a shame BW don't do it when you see some of the more unimportant crap that does get fixed.

 

Quite simply code it that the crafting finishes and any points are applicable when it actually finishes even if offline thus people can't queue it up 8 hours ahead of time or what not. Granted people could still queue it up a few hours ahead of time so an even better solution could be have it only record crafting started during the actual event.

 

Neither of these would probably happen but again, easy enough fixes.

 

Also minor stuff compared to the current operation exploit.

[BrianDavion]

Some of yall need to check up on your demographics. The ammount of misinformation going on is terrifying. First, its not the big guilds (50+ active players) that take full advantage (nim) of operations, its small guilds with 16 active players. 2nd yall claim to need crafting in order to compete with these so called 50+ player big guilds yet it is the 100+ guilds that use crafting to make it impossible for small guilds to ever compete. Tsk tsk

 

P.s. can we please get brackets for conquest? Why is conquest left out of the idea that you cant have a 150v50 battle be balanced?

 

 

problem is that your small guold may have 500 characters in em but it's basicl;y only 25 accounts of which only 15 are regularly active. . while your small 20 man guild may have 20 active players. a bracketing system would likely work poorly. and as it is you're STILL going to only see the top bracket allowed to CONQUER a planet. a smallish 20 man guild however assuming they're working on it should be able to keep on the leaderboard

[MeNaCe-NZ]

Small guilds choose to be small guilds, if you want to do well at conquest it's fairly clear what needs to be done. Small guilds can choose to become big guilds or not whinge about not doing so well at conquest. Heck there's nothing even stopping you pilfering players from other guilds if you think you can attract them *shows some leg*.

[Kalfear]

The only way to get several hundred thousand (or more) points in the first hour or two of a conquest event is to prepare a crafting bomb ahead of time. It is a strategy most everyone who intends to win an event uses. It's not a secret.

 

I know this

I do it myself

 

but OP was claiming that the pre crafting was a lie and didnt work in his post (opening post or follow up, forget now and to lazy to look)

[AshlaBoga]

So we had 4 guilds on our server start up conquests morning-of with 400k+ conquest points per... all choose a different planet... soo... yeay... how long until this is FIXED so someone else can maybe get first place?

 

As far as I can tell, this is how BW intends for it to be: Conquests = Crafting + some other stuff

[keimox]

So we had 4 guilds on our server start up conquests morning-of with 400k+ conquest points per... all choose a different planet... soo... yeay... how long until this is FIXED so someone else can maybe get first place?

 

Mega guilds with 150-250 unique accounts quit doing this when they have all achievements for conquering planets. So expect it to take a while.

[LilyJedi]

As far as I can tell, this is how BW intends for it to be: Conquests = Crafting + some other stuff

 

More like Conquests = GSF + PVP + Crafting + other stuff

 

It's pretty clear to me that the GSF and PVP side is a very deliberate decision, and the Crafting is an incidental side-effect that they're probably quite happy with.

[BrianDavion]

More like Conquests = GSF + PVP + Crafting + other stuff

 

It's pretty clear to me that the GSF and PVP side is a very deliberate decision, and the Crafting is an incidental side-effect that they're probably quite happy with.

 

I dunno my guild made 200k points in about an hour by running S&V.

 

sure you can't do a ton of that but thats a hell of a big chunk of points

[Zoom_VI]

Are people really complaining about PvP again? PvP wasn't even overpowered to begin with and post change its almost laughable if you don't have a planetary bonus for it.

[Brewski]

Are people really complaining about PvP again? PvP wasn't even overpowered to begin with and post change its almost laughable if you don't have a planetary bonus for it.

 

I don't know, I think PvP, GSF and PvE are fairly balanced conquest wise at the moment.

 

I recently began to PvP at 55 because of conquests, and I've found I enjoy it more than I did in past attempts to get into the PvP side. As a result I've started doing the dailies/weeklies fairly regularly. At the same time, I've also continued to do my normal guild PvE FPs and Ops. (And occasional dailies/rampages.)

 

What I've found is that I seem to earn about the same number of CP per hour doing any of those activities. I recognize it's anecdotal evidence at best, and that it may vary from server to server and based on play time, but for me, they seem fairly balanced when just playing normal.

 

Where there are issues in point acquisition is when people "optimize" (I won't call it exploiting, as they aren't cheating, just using the system) their point acquisition. We've seen this done by manipulating FP and Op runs, and more recently, by spam-crafting. Bioware has made modifications to try and cover these and bring everything into balance. Hopefully they continue making tweaks as they go.

 

Conquests are only in their second month, and we haven't even made it through one cycle yet. Give them time, and it will get more balanced as we go.

[Lecto]

Just my opinion, but why would they waist money on fixing this when most players don't even have access to it? There are only a handful of Guilds on my server that even have flagships.