Rambeezy Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Some of yall need to check up on your demographics. The ammount of misinformation going on is terrifying. First, its not the big guilds (50+ active players) that take full advantage (nim) of operations, its small guilds with 16 active players. 2nd yall claim to need crafting in order to compete with these so called 50+ player big guilds yet it is the 100+ guilds that use crafting to make it impossible for small guilds to ever compete. Tsk tsk P.s. can we please get brackets for conquest? Why is conquest left out of the idea that you cant have a 150v50 battle be balanced? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Foambreaker Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 They queued up a load of crafting jobs and logged toons after the event started, there is nothing broken here. But But But... MATS ARE FREE!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 But But But... MATS ARE FREE!!! Mats are of zero concern. L2P2W...buy packs, collect scraps, profit. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Effort? What are you talking about? Are you honestly suggesting that crafting takes any effort at all? You queue it up and log off!!! Running an Ops? That takes "effort". Maybe not for you if all you do is hook up with people who are putting effort into it, but it sure as hell takes effort from the guy who starts the group. It also requires you to be ATK to do an Ops/FP/Heroic, even if the damn thing is 45 levels below you...crafting is the P2W way to do conquests and the only one you can do while offline. How the hell do you call that "effort"? Maintaining the resources for crafting requires far more effort than going to your minimap and pressing the queue button. Maybe if spamming flashpoints, heroics, and warzones was actually hard you might have a point. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Mats are of zero concern. L2P2W...buy packs, collect scraps, profit. Such a great plan, "Crafting doesn't cost anything, just spend RL currency" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 So we had 4 guilds on our server start up conquests morning-of with 400k+ conquest points per... all choose a different planet... soo... yeay... how long until this is FIXED so someone else can maybe get first place? Fix what, exactly? You could do the same thing they did. It's not "broken" because some guilds are capable of planning and executing better or faster than you've chosen to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rambeezy Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Maintaining the resources for crafting requires far more effort than going to your minimap and pressing the queue button. Maybe if spamming flashpoints, heroics, and warzones was actually hard you might have a point. Please try to queue for nightmare operations......o wait. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 ^^This^^ Conquests is all about crafting, nothing more. Buy your packs and compete like everyone else. Maybe I'm buying the wrong packs. So I bought a Hypercrate, whatever the current one is, from GTN the other day and opened all 24 packs from it. The grand total of crafting materials out of that was a few purples, a few blues, and about 1 stack of greens. What is the $ cost on those hypercrates? They're like 4,000 coins or something, right? Is that $40? Doesn't seem to be a reasonable assumption there - that people would spend that sort of money for that few crafting materials. Though I do agree with you that some of the conquests are optimized for crafting. Some, though, are not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Such a great plan, "Crafting doesn't cost anything, just spend RL currency" Huh...yeah, it's not like anyone would ever pay for something they want, right? Only Bill Gate's has that kinda money...right? You might be shocked how many normal players buy coins and packs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Huh...yeah, it's not like anyone would ever pay for something they want, right? Only Bill Gate's has that kinda money...right? You might be shocked how many normal players buy coins and packs. Yeah, check out my post in the other thread where I did the math (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=766393). We're talking a minimum of $12,000 to even get close using this "P2W" method. Bill Gates, indeed. Sultan of Brunei, too. The 0.1% could do it. How many of them play this game? Edited October 1, 2014 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Yeah, check out my post in the other thread where I did the math (http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=766393). We're talking a minimum of $12,000 to even get close using this "P2W" method. Bill Gates, indeed. Sultan of Brunei, too. The 0.1% could do it. How many of them play this game? Ah! You believe that Jawa Junk is the only way of getting resources? No. It's not. They'll sell packs and buy exactly what they want. See, resources are infinite! As long as guys are buying them, other players will harvest them and sell them, then the player who did all the harvesting will go buy a few packs off the GTN, keeping this cycle going indefinitely. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JattaGin Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 LoL OMG dude are u feeling ok? pre planning is cheating? hahahaaha u guys sound like those noobs that complain about grenades/premades in WZ how is it a cheat when everybody can do it/use them? stop being buthurt that you can`t reach #1 with you 5 man guild. Bioware big guilds are cheating! :D:D:D I see you still haven't read the original post you were refering to. Not even after I pointed you to it. I also see where you are coming from, personally attacking me for pointing out that you quoted something completely out of context, leaving out the relevant part. Because you won't read what you were supposed to read: the cheat has nothing to do with pre planning. If you want to know what the poster you were commenting on meant, feel free to actually read what he wrote (you know, the part after the first half of the first sentence that you quoted and raged about). Regards from a member of one of the regulars in the top 10 who hasn't complained about anything except people not reading, but raging about what was written but not read. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Ah! You believe that Jawa Junk is the only way of getting resources? No. It's not. They'll sell packs and buy exactly what they want. See, resources are infinite! As long as guys are buying them, other players will harvest them and sell them, then the player who did all the harvesting will go buy a few packs off the GTN, keeping this cycle going indefinitely. Aha, OK, did you think through that one? Do you know what THAT would cost in terms of real money? Hypercrates go for 3.5 to 5 million on my server. Well, that's what they're listed for which doesn't guarantee a sale so let's say they sell for 4 mil on average. The seller gets 94% of that, so each Hypercrate, for which they've spent $35 gets them 3.76 million credits. Let's go back and look at stacks of materials. It seems that, when you can find them, the green materials average over 800 credits per unit (not stack; unit). That's 79,200 credits a stack. Again, to craft to the point total I used to prove $12k is the minimum real money cost via Jawa Junk, you're looking at needing 682 stacks of green materials (best case) which at 79,200 credits per stack comes out to 54,014,400 credits but let's round to 54 mil. 54 million credits acquired by selling hypercrates on GTN means you need to sell 14.3 hypercrates on GTN. Let's round down to 14 to again minimize the dollar cost. 14 Hypercrates will cost you $490. That's better than $12,000, and the number of hypercrates seems like one that might be able to be sold, but do you really thing that guilds are spending $500 a week for the bump (not guaranteed win, but bump) it would get them in conquest points? To your final point, "resources are infinite", no, they are not. I often scan GTN for crafting resources for conquest and all too frequently there is less than one page of some and even those are in stacks far smaller than 99. Edited October 1, 2014 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Ah! You believe that Jawa Junk is the only way of getting resources? No. It's not. They'll sell packs and buy exactly what they want. See, resources are infinite! As long as guys are buying them, other players will harvest them and sell them, then the player who did all the harvesting will go buy a few packs off the GTN, keeping this cycle going indefinitely. Do you seriously not realize how flawed that argument is? You do realize that there is a GTN tax right? Not to mention you are assuming that everyone that sells mats is going to invest that money back into the GTN which isn't true. Flashpoints, heroics, and warzones don't cost anything at all to do. Crafting always will. Edited October 1, 2014 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Aha, OK, did you think through that one? Do you know what THAT would cost in terms of real money? Hypercrates go for 3.5 to 5 million on my server. Well, that's what they're listed for which doesn't guarantee a sale so let's say they sell for 4 mil on average. The seller gets 94% of that, so each Hypercrate, for which they've spent $35 gets them 3.76 million credits. Let's go back and look at stacks of materials. It seems that, when you can find them, the green materials average over 800 credits per unit (not stack; unit). That's 79,200 credits a stack. Again, to craft to the point total I used to prove $12k is the minimum real money cost via Jawa Junk, you're looking at needing 682 stacks of green materials (best case) which at 79,200 credits per stack comes out to 54,014,400 credits but let's round to 54 mil. 54 million credits acquired by selling hypercrates on GTN means you need to sell 14.3 hypercrates on GTN. Let's round down to 14 to again minimize the dollar cost. 14 Hypercrates will cost you $490. That's better than $12,000, and the number of hypercrates seems like one that might be able to be sold, but do you really thing that guilds are spending $500 a week for the bump (not guaranteed win, but bump) it would get them in conquest points? To your final point, "resources are infinite", no, they are not. I often scan GTN for crafting resources for conquest and all too frequently there is less than one page of some and even those are in stacks far smaller than 99. Do you seriously not realize how flawed that argument is? You do realize that there is a GTN tax right? Not to mention you are assuming that everyone that sells mats is going to invest that money back into the GTN which isn't true. Flashpoints, heroics, and warzones don't cost anything at all to do. Crafting always will. Yeah, you two are obviously right...thinking someone might win these through crafting is silly...right? There's no chance people are spending real money to win these...especially when the math proves that it would be really expensive, assuming of course they aren't also using gathering toons like a normal person would. I must have been mistaken since I'm sure it's easy to get 8 million points as a guild doing anything besides crafting. I don't know what I was thinking...glad you two are here to prove there's no issues at all with crafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Yeah, you two are obviously right...thinking someone might win these through crafting is silly...right? There's no chance people are spending real money to win these...especially when the math proves that it would be really expensive, assuming of course they aren't also using gathering toons like a normal person would. I must have been mistaken since I'm sure it's easy to get 8 million points as a guild doing anything besides crafting. I don't know what I was thinking...glad you two are here to prove there's no issues at all with crafting. Perhaps you have a hard time reading my posts. I've never argued that these can be won via crafting. In fact, I have in the past suggested that it might be possible for a single credit-rich, enterprising player to beat a whole guild by crafting. My argument is that people are not using real money the way you fear they are. They're not "paying to win", because that costs too much. Focus on the message. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Perhaps you have a hard time reading my posts. I've never argued that these can be won via crafting. In fact, I have in the past suggested that it might be possible for a single credit-rich, enterprising player to beat a whole guild by crafting. My argument is that people are not using real money the way you fear they are. They're not "paying to win", because that costs too much. Focus on the message. Too much for who? You? Everyone? Do you now speak for everyone playing? Where are your facts? Sources? Metrics? Or are you basing this on your own personal beliefs? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Too much for who? You? Everyone? Do you now speak for everyone playing? Where are your facts? Sources? Metrics? Or are you basing this on your own personal beliefs? How much do you think players are going to drop to win a conquest? How many players do you think are going to drop an extra $100 a week to do it? Some might. There is no way it's anywhere near as widespread as you'd like us to fear. You can see evidence of that in the relative scarcity of Cartel Pack items on the GTN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 How much do you think players are going to drop to win a conquest? How many players do you think are going to drop an extra $100 a week to do it? Some might. There is no way it's anywhere near as widespread as you'd like us to fear. You can see evidence of that in the relative scarcity of Cartel Pack items on the GTN. I'm not trying to scare anyone, I'm simply explaining why I doubt they'll change a thing. And yeah, I think more than a few players are willing to drop a couple extra hundred a month. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoom_VI Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 (edited) Too much for who? You? Everyone? Do you now speak for everyone playing? Where are your facts? Sources? Metrics? Or are you basing this on your own personal beliefs? TUX you do realize that if people started trying to sell cartel packs on the scale you are suggesting, that the supply would rapidly outsource the demand which would in turn drive down the market price for packs, which would in turn require selling more products to reach the credit goal which would only drive the price down further. economics! Edited October 1, 2014 by Zoom_VI Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Costello Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I don't think its a major problem. Conquest is fairly dull once the big guilds have the rewards they aren't going to keep zerging to get the highest score. There is nothing special about conquest no walking across battlefields of slain enemies no orbital bombardments. Its a few titles and rehashing older content, crafting, PvP or a few ops. All of this can be done with or without conquest so yeah it can suck that the big guilds have a massive advantage but that is the way BW want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 TUX you do realize that if people started trying to sell cartel packs on the scale you are suggesting, that the supply would rapidly outsource the demand which would in turn drive down the market price for packs, which would in turn require selling more products to reach the credit goal which would only drive the price down further. economics! Yeah, which is why packs have dropped from 240k ea on my server to 124K on some days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 I'm not trying to scare anyone, I'm simply explaining why I doubt they'll change a thing. And yeah, I think more than a few players are willing to drop a couple extra hundred a month. So your concern is that people are dropping real money to win at conquest which looks exactly like placing top 10 except for a very temporary Orbital Strike, an equally temporary Walker Mount, and a permanent Title? Basically they're dropping a bunch of money for a title and epeen? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychopyro Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 Yeah, which is why packs have dropped from 240k ea on my server to 124K on some days. I watched them fall as far as 95k .... It is happening... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TUXs Posted October 1, 2014 Share Posted October 1, 2014 So your concern is that people are dropping real money to win at conquest which looks exactly like placing top 10 except for a very temporary Orbital Strike, an equally temporary Walker Mount, and a permanent Title? Basically they're dropping a bunch of money for a title and epeen? Unlike you, I really don't care why the hell they're doing it. I'm simply pointing out that the advantage crafting has right now is absolutely ludicrous!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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