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some pvp tank questions advice needed


ialyxxiieee

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I'm already using Brut Shield amp relic, but wondered if the Def Proc is worth using

I do use the Brut RW relic but i dont feels its all that amazing

also is it possible to stack a Brut shield amp with an obroan ? is it worth it ?

Edited by ialyxxiieee
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I'm just gonna pull a quote from a post I made a couple days ago that should answer the question and give some additional helpful info.

 

Basically Melee/ranged is defendable and also shieldable. Force/tech that are kinetic/energy are shieldable. All internal/elemental damage bypasses shield and defense.

 

Crit chance pushes down or overwrites shield chance on the RNG scale if they overlap.

 

Simple example: An attack is made, RNG 1-100. With 40% shield chance, if the attacker "rolled" a 1-40 the attack will be shielded. Crit chance is at the top end of the 1-100 RNG attack roll, I.e. if the attack had rolled 81-100 on 20% crit chance, the attack would crit. A normal hit in this case would be if the attacker rolled a 41-80. Now lets say the attacker pops recklessness his crit chance on shock would go up to 80% (21-100 on the 1-100 attack RNG). Now becuase the crit chance is 80%(21-100) it pushes the shield chance down to 20%. (1-20). On autocrits (100%), shield is pushed completely down to 0%. This was tested by kbn popping reckless-FL several times against a tank. ALL hits were either crits or shielded, there were NO normal hits. And the # of crits vs shielded made it clear that shield chance was being overwritten by crit chance.

 

On white damage attacks, defense overwrites shield chance on the low end of the attack RNG to completly negate the damage. Example: defender has 20% defense, 40% shield and the attacker has 20% crit. White dmg attack is made, RNG 1-100. A roll of 1-20 would be defended, 21-40 shielded, 41-80 normal, 81-100 crit.

 

I'm not sure about this one but iirc: crit chance on white damage attacks does not overwrite defense. This is rarely an issue as defense is so low and there are very few white dmg attacks that can yield autocrit So you dodon't usually have an overlap. Sniper with 100% autocrit on snipe could still miss on a 1-20 roll against a 20% defense tank. I would want to test this out to make sure.

 

Internal/elemental damage completely unmitigatable aside from flat damage reduction and high health so the healer can have some room. One of the reasons darkmaul works better than full tank is the 25% DR on respite/black out.

 

Unfotunately I can't find kbn's thread anymore I think it got dumped when they re-did class forum section.

 

Basically for PvP tanking in general I stack end to 40k>shield to 50% w/KW>absorb to 40%. 0 defense in gear but every point I can take in skill tree + a redoubt relic on hand if I run into a sniper/Mara fest. Relics should be shield amp and reactive warding. Reactive warding being the best due to it absorbing all types of damage.

 

I like the idea of getting a second set of gear as Cinerous suggested. Defense heavy for Carny/Pyro comps. I guess cause the Mara is mostly white and the pyro's elemental will bypass everything anyways:rolleyes:

 

iirc you cannot have two of the same relic type. One will not activate. Can someone confirm?

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defense is considered worthless in PvP because so many attacks are tech/force which bypass defense. (the avoidance stat for tech/force is resistance -- you can't get this on gear but some abilities like shadow resilience (assassin shroud) give it for a few seconds).

 

shield, absorb, mainstat and power proc relics are all reasonable for PvP tanking.

 

shield/absorb doesn't mitigate internal/elemental damage but that is a small enough slice of the pie that shield/absorb is still reasonable.

 

examples of when defense applies: it is useful against vengeance juggs (ravage is melee attack and therefore defense avoidance applies) and marksman snipers who also have a lot of their best attacks as melee/ranged. Of course only vengeance jugg is popular right now. defense is useless against a smash jugg as their big hitters are all force attack.

 

Folks who do use tank gear for PvP and min/max replace all mods that have defense with mods that provide useful stats. The off the shelf tanking PvP gear has a lot of defense so it is expensive to minmax your tank gear. This is probably one of the reasons folks tank in DPS gear (+shield) -- it has fewer useless stats.

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I'm just gonna pull a quote from a post I made a couple days ago that should answer the question and give some additional helpful info.

 

Basically for PvP tanking in general I stack end to 40k>shield to 50% w/KW>absorb to 40%. 0 defense in gear but every point I can take in skill tree + a redoubt relic on hand if I run into a sniper/Mara fest. Relics should be shield amp and reactive warding. Reactive warding being the best due to it absorbing all types of damage.

 

 

Curious as to how you had the stat budget for these numbers. I tried mapping it out on Mr robot and could only hit 39k 36 shield 35 abs at best overall. hitting 50 shield is impossible. this is on a jugg/guard

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was also wondering if it is viable to change out my Endurance augs for willpower augs, yes i know i will lose a tiny amount of hp and gain a little dps, but surely this is viable

 

i currently have 100 ( 2 mods ) def and everything else in absorb, think i have around 38k hp

and also this is with full shadow tank.

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I'm already using Brut Shield amp relic, but wondered if the Def Proc is worth using

I do use the Brut RW relic but i dont feels its all that amazing

also is it possible to stack a Brut shield amp with an obroan ? is it worth it ?

 

You want the RW and SA relic, the Defense one is bad

 

For pvp, I would say that Reactive Warden is almost mandatory. The reason is that while it has a long lockout, its proc works against all damage. The pvp you could be facing a pair of Tactics VG one match and a bunch of MM snipers the next match. Heck having any relic at all that works against the former is a boon in itself.

 

Its more of a question of SA vs FR, and honestly I would take SA almost every time since the vast majority of the time FR procs are not going to cause you to actually dodge a meaningful attack that you otherwise would not have. Plus the current meta leans far more towards specs with higher amounts of F/T than M/R, so the value of defense is further decreased.

Auto-crits aren't all that common. In general, current PvP tank theory crafting assumes a 35% crit rate across the board, encompassing both auto-crits and natural crit chance. This seems to line up fairly well with player logs, though it will have to be reduced somewhat when 2.7 drops due to the Smash nerfs.

 

Here's the thing though: melee/ranged attacks are very, very rare in PvP. Well not "rare" per se, but it's very uncommon relative to force/tech attacks. This is the exact opposite of PvE, where melee/ranged is more common. Because of this, the FR relic really isn't that exciting. I mean, if you happen to know that you're facing a lot of marksman snipers and carnage marauders, sure, pick up the FR. Otherwise, the SA is probably a safer bet.

 

Also think about it, FR is 5% defense chance 30% of the time. That's almost nothing, and from a pvp perspective you would never be able to tell the difference between when you had the proc and when you didn't

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Curious as to how you had the stat budget for these numbers. I tried mapping it out on Mr robot and could only hit 39k 36 shield 35 abs at best overall. hitting 50 shield is impossible. this is on a jugg/guard

 

I said w/KW (kinnetic ward/dark ward). Also assumes companion max health buff. Min/max'd brute.

Edited by Lanzend
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Im marauder and im doing it on this way: first i jump at him and start to do biggest dmg i can. Then when he starts to prepair some naughty defence/attack (obvious in the right upper part above the attack line near his character pic) i interrupt it. Then i continue to do biggest dmg possible, and when he repeats it, i interrupt again.

So, the most important is to always interrupt them and watch very carefully r they preparing/making some attack/defence! If u miss even 1, whole health gets back and ur dead. :D

GL.

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