Bioware: Is Crafting to Win™ intended?

[TUXs]

I highly doubt BW would be so devious as to set all this up just so they can sell a few more ops passes or hypercrates, particularly since the F2P people are not even the target audience, and the relation you guys are placing on Crafting nukes and Cartel market sales is sketchy at best.

Are you really so naive that you don't understand that the reason this game exists is to generate a profit? Not just A profit, but a bigger profit than last year, or the year before that...this game exists for one reason only - to make EA oodles of money. They don't care if you're happy or entertained, as long as you're spending $. $ is why this game exists, not some loyalty to the Star Wars name lol.

[ParagonAX]

so? There is the thread-that-shall-not-be-named over in the PvP section that has over 7.5k replies and never received a single yellow post.

 

So you're saying that it's OK for BW Community Managers to not to do their jobs because they have not been doing their jobs anyways?

Edited October 6, 2014 by ParagonAX

[Zoom_VI]

Are you really so naive that you don't understand that the reason this game exists is to generate a profit? Not just A profit, but a bigger profit than last year, or the year before that...this game exists for one reason only - to make EA oodles of money. They don't care if you're happy or entertained, as long as you're spending $. $ is why this game exists, not some loyalty to the Star Wars name lol.

 

It exists to make money. but the notion that crafting potency is somehow a indirect scheme to increase hypercrate sales is pure paranoia. Bw hires economists, and anyone that knows anything about economy will realize that only a few people can sell hypercrates before the supply outpaces the demand and the venue loses profitability.

[ParagonAX]

Bw hires economists, and anyone that knows anything about economy will realize that only a few people can sell hypercrates before the supply outpaces the demand and the venue loses profitability.

 

:confused::confused:

 

[DarthTHC]

Are you really so naive that you don't understand that the reason this game exists is to generate a profit? Not just A profit, but a bigger profit than last year, or the year before that...this game exists for one reason only - to make EA oodles of money. They don't care if you're happy or entertained, as long as you're spending $. $ is why this game exists, not some loyalty to the Star Wars name lol.

 

There's nothing wrong with making a profit. There's nothing wrong with setting the goal of more profit next year. That's what businesses do. Should do.

 

The thing of it is, they're not a government. They don't get to tax us and arbitrarily raise the percentage when they want more money. They have to earn their money.

 

if we're not entertained, we'll stop playing. If we stop playing, we stop spending money. If we stop spending money, revenue and profitability plummet.

 

It is in BioWare's best interest to keep us entertained.

Edited October 6, 2014 by DarthTHC

[swtordrz]

The lack of any BW response on such an hotly debated topic suggest that they have a financial stake in the matter. You are right.

 

I humbly contend that much of the "heat" in this thread relates to interpretations of your intentions for posting this thread as much as Conquest balancing concerns, precipitated by your own original words:

 

"I did not show that to boast. In fact, most of my guild is sick and tired of Bioware's conquest system, and it's insane preference towards crafting. Some of my guildies were so stressed all week they were dreaming of mats in their sleep. I never want to see another War Supply again."

 

We understand that you do not want to see crafting as such a significant part of Conquest, no need to repeatedly keep bumping this thread to page 1 as a means of keeping it "hot", there is nothing more that needs to be said to answer your question other than "working as intended until Bioware says otherwise". Enjoy your gaming.

[ParagonAX]

I humbly contend that much of the "heat" in this thread relates to interpretations of your intentions for posting this thread as much as Conquest balancing concerns, precipitated by your own original words:

 

"I did not show that to boast. In fact, most of my guild is sick and tired of Bioware's conquest system, and it's insane preference towards crafting. Some of my guildies were so stressed all week they were dreaming of mats in their sleep. I never want to see another War Supply again."

 

We understand that you do not want to see crafting as such a significant part of Conquest, no need to repeatedly keep bumping this thread to page 1 as a means of keeping it "hot", there is nothing more that needs to be said to answer your question other than "working as intended until Bioware says otherwise". Enjoy your gaming.

 

Thanks for your kind words. Although I highly doubt that I, individually, could have generated 700+ replies and 20k+ views in a week by "repeatedly keep bumping this thread to page 1 as a means of keeping it "hot""

Edited October 6, 2014 by ParagonAX

[ML_DoubleTap]

There's nothing wrong with making a profit. There's nothing wrong with setting the goal of more profit next year. That's what businesses do. Should do.

 

The thing of it is, they're not a government. They don't get to tax us and arbitrarily raise the percentage when they want more money. They have to earn their money.

 

if we're not entertained, we'll stop playing. If we stop playing, we stop spending money. If we stop spending money, revenue and profitability plummet.

 

It is in BioWare's best interest to keep us entertained.

 

 

http://bit.ly/1rAz3xu

[TUXs]

It exists to make money. but the notion that crafting potency is somehow a indirect scheme to increase hypercrate sales is pure paranoia. Bw hires economists, and anyone that knows anything about economy will realize that only a few people can sell hypercrates before the supply outpaces the demand and the venue loses profitability.

What the hell are you talking about lol? The Hypercrate is merely a real $ way to get more in-game credits. The more hypercrates that sell, the lower prices go on the GTN (for packs), increasing the number of players willing to buy them off the GTN. Hell, Bioware is 100% win/win the lower the value of the hypercrate is because that means players need to buy MORE to make in-game credits.

[TUXs]

There's nothing wrong with making a profit. There's nothing wrong with setting the goal of more profit next year. That's what businesses do. Should do.

 

It is in BioWare's best interest to keep us entertained.

I never suggested there was anything wrong with it, I admire how good they are at it tbh.

 

And yes, it's in their best interest to keep us entertained because the longer we stick around, the more likely we'll be to spend extra $ on the game. That's why F2P games do well.

[Psychopyro]

It exists to make money. but the notion that crafting potency is somehow a indirect scheme to increase hypercrate sales is pure paranoia. Bw hires economists, and anyone that knows anything about economy will realize that only a few people can sell hypercrates before the supply outpaces the demand and the venue loses profitability.

 

But int this case, supply cannot outpace demand... At least on the resource part of it... Because the demand is hugely spread across different reasons.

 

The reasons for buying the hypercrates varies... The top reason right now is for resources to craft... The packs come with your choice of resources in the pack... If it comes with purples or blue, you either convert those into something that sells fast, or sell the mats (as they are still pretty expensive per unit)... If you get green (which I'd say 90% of the packs I open have been), you have the resources right there.... Essentially a hyper crate should be somewhere about 300 green junk is 3 stacks of your choice of resources.... If you get a big item out of the hypercrate (say a sandcrawler), you undercut the market by a good bit just to sell it you're potentially talking several more stacks of resources...

 

While the packs themselves take a nosedive (and they have, last I looked on my server they were 138k), the resource market has seemed to stabilize, at least for now.

 

Now eventually the servers will not be able to supply the massive amounts of resources needed. Which at that point, the price of packs will go back up because people will buy them simply for the mats. Which will start the whole cycle over again...

 

While game economy is fluid to a point, it's not a true economy, as all things in the game do not have a finite amount. Credits are infinite and resources are infinite. Time is the only finite factor, and that can be bought with real money, which pretty much takes the time needed out of the formula...

[ML_DoubleTap]

The reasons for buying the hypercrates varies... The top reason right now is for resources to craft...

 

This is a pretty huge assumption and one that I in turn would assume is categorically false.

[TUXs]

This is a pretty huge assumption and one that I in turn would assume is categorically false.

Then what is your best guess? I think he's right. Not directly getting resources from crates, but buying the crates to sell the packs to buy the resources.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Then what is your best guess? I think he's right. Not directly getting resources from crates, but buying the crates to sell the packs to buy the resources.

 

He specifically said that they are buying them for the 300 or so green junk and the chance for a big item. If you're buying a hypercrate for 3 stacks of green mats you need to find a better way to waste money. How much is a hyper crate like 50 bucks? For something that takes a couple hours to farm?

 

I would say the biggest reason people buy hypercrates is to get items that only come in cartel packs. Second would probably be getting big items that sell well so you can afford other items that only come in cartel packs. I highly doubt there is an overwhelming majority of people wasting $50+ on 35k conquest points or so...

[Mozepy]

I don't see why there is so much discussion. Skimmed over this topic and not sure if anything factual was said but it comes down to 2 issues really.

 

1. Crafting allows a guild to buy their way to victory.

 

2. Crafting requires little to no active playing.

 

A single player can play one warzone, one flashpoint, one operation, or one star fighter battle at any one time.

 

A single character can be set up with 25 items (5 comps with a 5 item queue) to craft that will take about 5 hours. A guild can have up to 500 characters? They don't even have to be playing the game during that time.

 

Crafting should have a cap.

[ML_DoubleTap]

I don't see why there is so much discussion. Skimmed over this topic and not sure if anything factual was said but it comes down to 2 issues really.

 

1. Crafting allows a guild to buy their way to victory.

 

2. Crafting requires little to no active playing.

 

A single player can play one warzone, one flashpoint, one operation, or one star fighter battle at any one time.

 

A single character can be set up with 25 items (5 comps with a 5 item queue) to craft that will take about 5 hours. A guild can have up to 500 characters? They don't even have to be playing the game during that time.

 

Crafting should have a cap.

 

You're trivializing the material gathering a bit, but ultimately I agree it needs to be capped in some way. Whether it's a hard cap via instilling a daily/weekly, or a soft cap via an dramatically increased crafting time. If all War Supplies took as long as an invasion force crafting efficiency would be cut down by 25%. Still probably not quite enough but it would be a good start.

[oofalong]

Then what is your best guess? I think he's right. Not directly getting resources from crates, but buying the crates to sell the packs to buy the resources.

 

What about all of the other stuff in the Cartel packs? Are you insinuating these things have no value?

 

Unfortunately, we have no way of identifying how significant, if any, the lift in hypercrate sales has been due to Conquests. At best there is anecdotal evidence on each side. I am sure there is a case of someone spending $200 on Cartel coins to get mats and/or other in-game asset to sell to help with Conquests. Still, I suggest the strategy of asking customers to convert real world money into in-game assets in order to win Conquests is folly. The exchange rate between real world money and Conquest points is too low. In other words this isn't sustainable, and I trust BioWare wants a sustainable environment.

[Mozepy]

You're trivializing the material gathering a bit, but ultimately I agree it needs to be capped in some way. Whether it's a hard cap via instilling a daily/weekly, or a soft cap via an dramatically increased crafting time. If all War Supplies took as long as an invasion force crafting efficiency would be cut down by 25%. Still probably not quite enough but it would be a good start.

 

"1. Crafting allows a guild to buy their way to victory."

Why gather?

[ML_DoubleTap]

"1. Crafting allows a guild to buy their way to victory."

Why gather?

 

You're either gathering resources or credits. Both are finite and require time.

[Zoom_VI]

Then what is your best guess? I think he's right. Not directly getting resources from crates, but buying the crates to sell the packs to buy the resources.

 

Nobody is arguing that selling packs isn't a source of credits that could be used for conquests. But simply put its not practical on the scale you guys are implying. GTN can only support so much, that's why despite numerous people posting their secret methods for making millions upon millions of credits on the GTN, we don't see other people repeating the same success.

 

If pack price falls due to increase in supply then there will be less people buying the packs as it no longer becomes a worthwhile use of their real life income. (sorry people have limits to their RL money.) Of course with people dropping out of the market then the supply won't be as much and the price will stabilize at a specific point. That point is more or less constant although varying by server.

 

Besides EA makes its money off of price gouging and minimizing production costs. Convoluted schemes that are based on a large amounts of assumptions and gambles are not their style. Conquests serves its purpose to EA as it keeps players busy and paying subs with almost no development cost beyond the initial implementation.

[Mozepy]

You're either gathering resources or credits. Both are finite and require time.

 

First no, they are not finite.

 

If you are in the position where you have to gather you are the one at the disadvantage. There are people who spend a lot of real money on this game. Keep in mind that the guild that won last week has a lot of scrap and crafted items this week.

[DarthTHC]

What the hell are you talking about lol? The Hypercrate is merely a real $ way to get more in-game credits. The more hypercrates that sell, the lower prices go on the GTN (for packs), increasing the number of players willing to buy them off the GTN. Hell, Bioware is 100% win/win the lower the value of the hypercrate is because that means players need to buy MORE to make in-game credits.

 

This is quite true. The more people are willing to turn $ into credits, the more $ BioWare will make from this process.

 

Until...

 

Until the credit per dollar ratio approaches whatever the credit selling sites are spamming these days. Then BioWare won't make the money and the credit spammers will.

 

So there is a lower boundary for the credit price on Hypercrates that BioWare would / could be shooting for.

 

Then what is your best guess? I think he's right. Not directly getting resources from crates, but buying the crates to sell the packs to buy the resources.

 

I wouldn't count resources as the only reason to do this. People were buying and re-selling hypercrates long before Conquest went live. There are other things to spend credits on.

 

Heck, this community consistently suggests exactly that method to obtain that rare item you want out of hypercrates. Assuming normal luck, you'll come out way ahead selling hypercrates for credits then buying, say, that Rancor mount or CZK Sandcrawler with those credits than opening the hypercrates in the hopes of getting those things.

[TUXs]

He specifically said that they are buying them for the 300 or so green junk and the chance for a big item. If you're buying a hypercrate for 3 stacks of green mats you need to find a better way to waste money. How much is a hyper crate like 50 bucks? For something that takes a couple hours to farm?

 

I would say the biggest reason people buy hypercrates is to get items that only come in cartel packs. Second would probably be getting big items that sell well so you can afford other items that only come in cartel packs. I highly doubt there is an overwhelming majority of people wasting $50+ on 35k conquest points or so...

Not quite. He said "The top reason right now is for resources to craft", which I believe to be true. I don't believe he's limiting the "resources to craft" to only what comes out of the packs, I assume he meant that those are simply bonus items and the "main" reason they buy the crates is so they have the funds to buy whatever resources they need to win. I read his reply as saying he's buying crates to sell items to make money to craft.

[TUXs]

You're either gathering resources or credits. Both are finite and require time.

 

Neither is finite. There are an infinite amount of credits and resources - time is the only limiting factor. For every person who is like these winning guilds, who are spending everything they can to win Conquests, there are an equal number of players who aren't at all like them who are benefiting by selling resources at record paces...which ironically they probably buy CM items with, completing the circle.

[DarthTHC]

Neither is finite. There are an infinite amount of credits and resources - time is the only limiting factor. For every person who is like these winning guilds, who are spending everything they can to win Conquests, there are an equal number of players who aren't at all like them who are benefiting by selling resources at record paces...which ironically they probably buy CM items with, completing the circle.

 

That's funny. My guild keeps winning planets, and we keep doing it without turning IRL money into credits.

 

In fact, I think I'm the only person in the guild who buys materials from GTN and I never pay more than 300 per unit and I can't remember the last time I bought any. (Oh, and I've never spent as much as a penny on cartel coins.)

 

Your assumption that this is the only way to win feels a lot like your continuous assertions that 50 million credits is too much for the guild ship.

 

Could the real case be that you simply have no interest in making or figuring out how to make credits in the game?

Edited October 6, 2014 by DarthTHC