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Is a vote system an option to discourage bad behavior by players in game?


LordArtemis

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Massively had an article on the changes to the vote system in game for LoL.

 

http://massively.joystiq.com/2014/09/24/league-of-legends-introduces-ranked-restrictions-for-toxic-playe/

 

Now it seems that players that are downvoted for poor behavior in game have even more detriments in place to discourage toxic gameplay actions.

 

I was wondering if this kind of system would benefit SWTOR. I am an advocate of unfriendly behavior (the kind of "I am not friendly" response type of thing) in MMOs, since I feel players have the right to be left alone if they wish, but it is obvious that some players enjoy going out of their way to grief others, either in chat or general gameplay.

 

You know the type from other games. The door blockers, corpse campers, trade scammers, boss kiters, leroy jenkins, PVP match suiciders, PVP flag griefers, chat trolls, guild bank thieves, etc. We are talking about people that intentionally set out to harm the gameplay of others for personal entertainment.

 

The type of system they have in LoL is interesting in that it allows players to downvote other players that exhibit this kind of behavior, and this has a direct effect on what that downvoted player can do in the game. For instance, chat is restricted for a specified time period, and mission rewards can and are effected, as well as the opportunity to participate in certain types of game content.

 

How do you guys feel about this? I think the current report system is reasonably adequate, but at the same time there are players I have seen that care little for temporary suspensions.

 

I think I would support the idea of having the ability to downvote with a specific chat channel, and after a large amount of votes over a short time period the person would receive a temporary chat ban...this may be useful for getting rid of gold sellers as well. I would also like to see the ability to ignore an entire account.

 

I'm not sure I would support anything past that.

 

Would like to hear some opinions on this.

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The last MMO I played had a system that would globally mute people if they were reported enough times. People would rally their friends to report people they didn't like and get them muted on a daily basis for no reason. I didn't read the article, but I assume LoL only allows voting on people who you are actively playing with, which limits abuse somewhat.

 

I'm not against a system like this, but implementing it would require a lot of caveats to prevent abuse.

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The last MMO I played had a system that would globally mute people if they were reported enough times. People would rally their friends to report people they didn't like and get them muted on a daily basis for no reason. I didn't read the article, but I assume LoL only allows voting on people who you are actively playing with, which limits abuse somewhat.

 

I'm not against a system like this, but implementing it would require a lot of caveats to prevent abuse.

 

Yea, I think it was mentioned that abuse remains a problem with the system in LoL. It would be difficult to create a system like this and prevent abuse of some sort.

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Well, the one way to prevent that would be to require a large amount of votes.

 

Lets say, for examples sake, that it required 1000 votes to activate. Lets also say that perhaps votes would drop off at the rate of, say 20 votes per day.

 

So if one surpasses the 1000 vote threshold on a particular day they could be sanctioned. You could also say that once a sanction is implemented the vote count returns to zero.

 

A player that reaches the sanction threshold more than X days in a row, or more than X days in a 30 day period would receive a stronger sanction.

 

That kind of setup could make it difficult for players to grief someone using the system.

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These systems never work in my opinion. I will not pay a monthly sub in a game where a group of people can impact my ability to play the game in this way.

 

I know I don't have the metrics to measure the effectiveness of a system like this, but from what I've seen of gaming communities I sincerely believe that the people who truly deserved to be downvoted in these systems are a minority. I think the bulk of the people who are downvoted are simply new players that need help and players who make simple mistakes one time in a group and get penalized for it.

 

If you encounter a bad player or a rude or obnoxious player then use the ignore feature and move on. This is all it takes to prevent them from being grouped with you again in the future. Giving a group of players the power to label "bad players" in the community through a voting system will just become a tool for griefing and will ultimately drive players away from the game before they ever are given a chance to learn how to play it well.

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[...]

If you encounter a bad player or a rude or obnoxious player then use the ignore feature and move on. This is all it takes to prevent them from being grouped with you again in the future. Giving a group of players the power to label "bad players" in the community through a voting system will just become a tool for griefing and will ultimately drive players away from the game before they ever are given a chance to learn how to play it well.

 

I fully support the idea of using the Ignore feature for that. But does the Ignore feature apply to all features of the game? If I ignore someone, do I still see that person's GTN listings? Can I still get thrown into a PVP match with them? Are they still able to taunt a world boss away? And so on...

 

I don't think the vote of a number of players regarding one specific player should affect his stance with every other player. If I don't like someone then that opinion should only affect the relationship between him and me, but not anyone else.

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Well, the one way to prevent that would be to require a large amount of votes.

 

Lets say, for examples sake, that it required 1000 votes to activate. Lets also say that perhaps votes would drop off at the rate of, say 20 votes per day.

 

So if one surpasses the 1000 vote threshold on a particular day they could be sanctioned. You could also say that once a sanction is implemented the vote count returns to zero.

 

A player that reaches the sanction threshold more than X days in a row, or more than X days in a 30 day period would receive a stronger sanction.

 

That kind of setup could make it difficult for players to grief someone using the system.

 

One thing i would say that it has to be unique hits so the same people cant keep doing it to the same person over and over. It should also be tied to account and not to the character so people cant just make dummy accounts to grief someone

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The last MMO I played had a system that would globally mute people if they were reported enough times. People would rally their friends to report people they didn't like and get them muted on a daily basis for no reason.

Thus encapsulating why "name and shame," in whatever form, is a bad idea.

 

/thread

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Another problem is that people are idiots. I'm in pugs all the time where DPS leap in ahead of tanks, keep pulling agro and never dropping threat, pull second mobs or hit a CC'ed target and then blame the tank for not doing their job. You know they will down vote the tank in this system.
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In FPs (group finder specifically), we already have a vote/kick option... that I think can be used to effect bad behavior. But, it take the community... If a particular person is exibiting what you consider to be bad behavior, you can certainly initiate a vote kick, and the other 2 members of the team can either agree or disagree with you.

 

If they agree, the person is removed from the team.

 

If you ignore a particular player, the GF mechanic makes it so you will NOT be teamed with them when utilizing the GF. Now, I dont know if this applies to PvP or not.

 

I don't think we need a more gamable system. Right now, you can /ignore and never here from that person again.

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Another problem is that people are idiots. I'm in pugs all the time where DPS leap in ahead of tanks, keep pulling agro and never dropping threat, pull second mobs or hit a CC'ed target and then blame the tank for not doing their job. You know they will down vote the tank in this system.

 

I was thinking the same thing. If the group can keep up, I normally won't say anything. If teammates start dying due to this behavior, you address it. If it doesn't stop...vote kick!

 

On the other hand, I've seen tanks that race thru FP's like they're on 5 hour energy & Red Bull combined. They go so fast, leaving one fight before it's over to start the next etx etx. Almost as bad as the leaping dps'.

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It could not be an automatic system, but would require a live investigation to ensure the system isn't being abused.

 

By all means, have the vote system but those metrics would then have to be investigated to ensure that the "bad behavior" was of the player and not the people voting him/her down.

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It could not be an automatic system, but would require a live investigation to ensure the system isn't being abused.

 

By all means, have the vote system but those metrics would then have to be investigated to ensure that the "bad behavior" was of the player and not the people voting him/her down.

 

How many "judges" who are just "Joe off the street with no skills to get a real job" would it take?

 

And do you really want to be judged by "the guy who landed the job"?

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I wish instead of working on fine-tuning the punitive system, the game would go for some sort of inconsequential rewards or merit system. Something like Google's +1, possibly with some kind of marker like "+1 for helpful in flashpoint" or "+1 for great guild leadership." Just something for a warm fuzzy, that most people won't bother with, but would mean the world to the person who got it. I know I would make a new character on a different server just so I could +1 Dulfy if it were an option.
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One way to make a system like this a little less abused is to make it less easy for the people reporting. If it was as simple as pressing a button, with no other effects, then yeah, people would use it all the time just to troll. However, if you require a little more effort... require a reason for the downvote, so the voter has to be motivated enough to take the time to type something out. Have someone on staff skim through reasons every once in a while and delete any that aren't legitimately filled in. Limit access to the reporting feature to only people you've played with recently, so you can't rally friends to vote with you on someone they've never actually seen. This make it useless for reporting chat trolls, but those aren't really that big of a deal compared to someone who actual ruins the game for you. Tie to the ignore feature so that there's some form of commitment to the downvote. Actual trolls don't like to ignore people, because it takes the fun out of their trolling if they can't see the person get "mad" about it. Subsequently taking the person off ignore would delete your vote. This would also require the ignore list to have notes about why the person was ignored.

 

Even with all that, I still don't think that any punishments should be automatic. The only automatic negative thing I'd want to see is to allow players to specify their own threshold for how many downvotes a person needs before they'd rather not be grouped with them. On top of that, add an upvote feature to both act as an exception (allow grouping with that person no matter how many downvotes they have) and counteract their downvotes.

 

Last but not least, make all votes of any kind public. Anonymity breeds trolls, and if the person is really worth reporting, you shouldn't have a problem with your name being attached to a downvote on them.

Edited by Kryand
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I liked how City of Heroes had their system. You could give a player a number of stars and set a note for them. You could have the option to have the stars appear over their head and that would follow them globally (think legacy). With that system, terrible players got reputations and even if they started a new characters or changed their name people would still know that they are, say, a Leroy Jenkins. You would be the only one that could see the rank that was given and it does not affect their gameplay in any way.....other than you deciding if you want to group with them or not. Edited by HelinCarnate
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Ignore already works this way... If they just had a bigger list...

 

If a person is bad, put them on ignore. Guess what, you don't see their chat and you don't get matched into GF with them... Enough people have a person on their ignore list and guess what, they get nothing done because they won't be able to GF with those people... Too bad it does not work for PvP though :\

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Ignore already works this way... If they just had a bigger list...

 

If a person is bad, put them on ignore. Guess what, you don't see their chat and you don't get matched into GF with them... Enough people have a person on their ignore list and guess what, they get nothing done because they won't be able to GF with those people... Too bad it does not work for PvP though :\

 

If ignore worked for PVP as wel....

 

Ok its 3 am on a Wednesday morning. Time to farm some solo rank points. Me and 3 others all get ready to queue and we have 4 buddies also ready to queue with their toons that otherwise just sit and collect dust. We have them all on ignore so we cannot be on the same team. Ok everyone ready? 3.....2....1... enter queue...

 

This is why we cant have nice things.

Edited by HelinCarnate
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Well, the one way to prevent that would be to require a large amount of votes.

 

Lets say, for examples sake, that it required 1000 votes to activate. Lets also say that perhaps votes would drop off at the rate of, say 20 votes per day.

 

So if one surpasses the 1000 vote threshold on a particular day they could be sanctioned. You could also say that once a sanction is implemented the vote count returns to zero.

 

A player that reaches the sanction threshold more than X days in a row, or more than X days in a 30 day period would receive a stronger sanction.

 

That kind of setup could make it difficult for players to grief someone using the system.

 

I can only imagine it would be suitable for F2P players.

 

Add that kind of thing for subs and it is immediate lost income.

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If ignore worked for PVP as wel....

 

Ok its 3 am on a Wednesday morning. Time to farm some solo rank points. Me and 3 others all get ready to queue and we have 4 buddies also ready to queue with their toons that otherwise just sit and collect dust. We have them all on ignore so we cannot be on the same team. Ok everyone ready? 3.....2....1... enter queue...

 

This is why we cant have nice things.

 

Exactly. The game is fine as is. We do not need some silly "upvote" or "downvote" system. Both, as mentioned above, would be abused and generally used incorrectly {used with emotional content}. "Upvote" would become a popularity contest...and "downvote" would probably encourage more antisocial behavior than the "incident" that sparked this thought to begin with.

 

Ignore works wonders if you are into PvE...and has zero place in PvP {aside from quieting the cry babies on your own team/faction} for quite obvious reasons {Trash talk, low population as is, and other PvP-isms}. We also do not need an account /ignore either. If you ignore another, and they toon hop to continue sounding off, then ignore that one also {turn this to your advantage as you now know more than one of this scumbag's toons [and possibly a pattern to spot more...make a game of it lol]}. If they do toon hop and continue they are now harassing you and can be reported as such.

 

One thing "Bee Dubya" does take very seriously is harrassment. If you are truly being harassed report it. If some psycho. has latched on, then report it etc.. Some might not agree...or confuse other failures of BWs {I lost count myself [subjective]} with lack of care about the social health of this game...but in my experience they do take harassment seriously....and care very much about the social atmosphere if this game.

 

Beyond the pure academic curiosity of "what if TOR had a 'downvote'?" I truly believe the features we have now are sufficient. We need to take some responsibility for how and why others treat us as they do. Rarely are you picked at random to screw with that day...there is usually a reason {jealousy, envy, perceived slight, misunderstanding, and/or they hate you for your behavior}. While not politically correct {especially in this climate where everyone else is to blame except ourselves}, these things rarely materialize in a vacuum.

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