To all the 1v1 posters here...

[Birdflew]

What other CCs are you talking about? Enlighten me. We have 2 CCs. Whirlwind (1 min CC for sorcs that breaks if they take damage, 1 min CD) and Electrocute (4s stun, 1 min CD). If you cast WW they break it. If you cast shock it gives you 4 seconds to cast 1, maybe 2 heals and heal for less than 4k HP. Again, that's what some DPSers do with a single skill.

 

Shock

Overload

Electrocute

Whirlwind

 

I think that´s all.

 

That's 4, not 1 CC abilites.

 

How can you come here and expect to be taken seriously when you have no idea what your class can and cannot do?

 

 

*EDIT*

 

 

Lightning Drain

 

So it's 5 if you count that.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Birdflew

[GoLoT]

Have you read my signature?

 

No, I didn't. But If you really are playing a 50 healer you should know you can't face dpsers in WZs. Maybe in regular PvP with a companion doing the DPS for you, but I don't think you stand a chance vs a good DPSer alone. Do you?

 

And again, no one is talking about nerfing or anything, just stating a fact. Healers are useless in 1v1 in most situations. If you don't agree with that, then we must be playing a different game.

 

In good groups, with a tank guarding you and 2-3 mates CCing and killing the dpsers or enemy healers, then you are useful. You give them some extra seconds to pewpew the enemy team and if you stand behind they usually can't get past your own team or just don't notice you until it's too late. But I wasn't talking about team PvP.

 

To be clearer: I only say healers have a hard time vs any DPSer in 1v1. That's a fact and every healer should know it.

And for me that's just wrong, and this is an opinion. You can disagree but you can't change it. You may think it's fair for healers to die easily to dpsers, but for me it's sad and wrong. Anyway, IDC about 1v1 PvP atm, I just wanted to give my opinion and state a fact. Nothing else. I don't know why people start pointing fingers, talking about WoW or acting so hostile. PvP is ok for me as it is. I just want people to know healers aren't easy to play and have huge handicaps in some situations (on 1v1 vs DPSers they are doomed, and the 30% healing debuff in PvP hurts a lot too).

 

PS: I was doing stuff ingame while typing this. I'll check for replies after posting it and edit or reply.

[Hydrott]

The reason why devs never bother balancing 1v1 is so they can keep people rerolling and just keep things fresh in general.You honestly think they can built a game of this size from the ground up but ''somehow'' have no idea what to do with a few abilitys? Edited December 25, 2011 by Hydrott

[GoLoT]

Shock

Overload

Electrocute

Whirlwind

 

I think that´s all.

 

That's 4, not 1 CC abilites.

 

How can you come here and expect to be taken seriously when you have no idea what your class can and cannot do?

 

 

*EDIT*

 

 

Lightning Drain

 

So it's 5 if you count that.

 

Shock only works on standard and weak enemies, a.k.a. normal mobs. On players I just do ~700dmg (using a purple resolve hilt 22 and purple crafted focus, over 500 bonus force damage without buffs, btw)

Overload isn't really a CC. It only pushes players away, useful but it doesn't disable them (it can interrupt some skills tho). If you spend skill points you can make it root, but then you have to be a dps spec, not healer.

Electrocute stuns for 4 seconds and is my main CC, but it has 1min CD. 50s if you go the DPS route. First CC.

Whirlwind has 1min CD and lasts 1 min, but it heals the target and it breaks on damage. It also is the main target of purges and CC breaks. It helps making them waste their CC break to give you a chance to use electrocute without them breaking it. Second CC for sorcerers.

 

That's 2 CCs.

[Birdflew]

Shock only works on standard and weak enemies, a.k.a. normal mobs. On players I just do ~700dmg (using a purple resolve hilt 22 and purple crafted focus, over 500 bonus force damage without buffs, btw)

Overload isn't really a CC. It only pushes players away, useful but it doesn't disable them (it can interrupt some skills tho). If you spend skill points you can make it root, but then you have to be a dps spec, not healer.

Electrocute stuns for 4 seconds and is my main CC, but it has 1min CD. 50s if you go the DPS route. First CC.

Whirlwind has 1min CD and lasts 1 min, but it heals the target and it breaks on damage. It also is the main target of purges and CC breaks. It helps making them waste their CC break to give you a chance to use electrocute without them breaking it. Second CC for sorcerers.

 

That's 2 CCs.

 

That's right. Remove Shock.

 

You still have 4 CC.

CC = Crowd Control, not Crowd Disable.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Birdflew

[GoLoT]

The reason why devs never bother balancing 1v1 is so they can keep people rerolling and just keep things fresh in general.You honestly think they can built a game of this size from the ground up but ''somehow'' have no idea what to do with a few abilitys?

 

Not to mention if PvP really was about tactical group combat why did they prohibit pre-mades and designed Warzones around 8v8?

 

But some of us aren't kids asking to nerf every class that can beat them, or asking to make our class the most powerful because we don't feel it's "balanced" because something isn't working for us. Some of us only want to give some insight on our class and it's current disadvantages and weaknesses. I see the game is as balanced as you can expect in team PvP. I'm just saying healers are way too weak vs dpsers if they can't even fight them back (For the last time, I'm not asking to change this, I'm just saying I think it's unfair. It's my opinion). If I try to attack my DPS is too low to hurt them. If I try to heal I can't outheal and end up dying. If I try to run and they are ranged or have their CCs up, I usually end up dead. But I don't like to run away from fights, even if I know I'm going to lose.

It's hard to find good PUGs but I found some. The rest of the time playing a healer means trying to heal a lvl 15-20 kamikaze that runs alone vs 5-6 enemies, and then dying because they kill him and then focus on you. I hardly ever 1v1 on WZs, but the few times I do, if it's a DPSer it owns me in seconds doing 3k+ hits.

[Birdflew]

You are trolling right?!

 

You ***** about this and that, and then you write

But I don't like to run away from fights, even if I know I'm going to lose.

 

This conversation ends here.

 

/Bird

[GoLoT]

That's right. Remove Shock.

 

You still have 4 CC.

CC = Crowd Control, not Crowd Disable.

 

1- Whirlwind.

2- Electrocute.

 

I don't consider overload a CC because it only pushes the enemy away a bit. You can add it to the list if you want tho.

I guess Lightning Drain is Force Lightning. It only slows the target but it's a channeled skill. That means while you cast it you can't move and it doesn't matter if they move slower if they are already attacking you.

 

Still 2 CCs for me. Overload isn't enough to cast a heal, they attack you again as soon as you use it. It has it's uses tho. Pushing people to acid pools, fire traps or out of the map is really useful, but I still don't see it as a CC (not like rooting, stunning or disabling).

 

EDIT:

You are trolling right?!

 

You ***** about this and that, and then you write

This conversation ends here.

 

/Bird

 

Sure. I can ***** all I want, freedom of speech. It's my opinion and after that last post I think it's worth more than yours. At least I accept your opinion, you just try to impose yours.

If I think something isn't right it's my right to post about it. I'm not asking for any changes, I'm having fun as it is and the moment I stop having fun I'll either respec, plvl my alt and play a dpser or just quit.

Edited December 25, 2011 by GoLoT

[jayfourc]

Yeah, thanks for the "fee lesson" but but a language class is not free, dont forget, not english the only language in the World. Maybe i dont speak it very well, but as I've seen you mostly understood, what I've talking about.A full language course in my country is around 800$, my salary is around 400$/month, so if you want me to speak and write better, any amount is appreciated;)

 

You're spending almost 4% of your salary for this? That sir, is dedication. Or something else.

[jayfourc]

People still aren't getting it...

 

In this game, "Skill" is a team working together...

 

Ignore the WZ objectives for a minute, you NEED to be playing as a team to have any success in this PvP system, no matter if it be Warzones, World, or god forbid if it's ever implemented Arenas...

 

It was always that way in W:AR, and guess who developed the PvP in this game!

 

Working together can come in many forms though. Working together to win in an objective game is different from working together to kill kill kill. I've seen way too many Voidstar and Alderaan matches lost because people decide that they'd rather go over there where all the flashy lights are because it's boring over here... But that's in line with the complaints you list out in your OP - some people still can't figure out that it's not TDM.

[oflow]

So basically what you are saying is ranged classes > all?

[Deshie]

Please do shut up. You clearly have no idea what pvp is about. It's PLAYER VS PLAYER. It's means killing other people. Warzones are joke. Teamplay really? from a pug? Can you really blame people for wanting to kill other people?

 

A healer is supposed to keep up wtih a dps. Otherwise what's the point of being a healer. Please do tell me! If they ever have arena in this game what's the point of bring a healer when you will get zerged by double dps combos?

 

I like how you ignore balance in everything you say. There has to be balance or we will keep having the zerg fest crap pvp we have at the moment. If you want to PvP roll Sorc or Assassin. Is that really the right? But according to you it's spot on cause it's about "teamplay"

[zuile]

OPs post isn't that bad but 1v1 happens in this game, esp. Alderaan and Voidstar, big imbalances can't be excused by just going "teamwork lul". Not that things are all that bad but I hate that terrible argument.

[Nijraw]

It's quite simple...

 

This pvp system is based around teamwork. I've seen the following type posts, and I'd like to respond how I did after I got over the rage...

 

1 - I'm a tank spec tank class that can't kill anyone 1 on 1:

 

No, you can't, because it's not your job... Team based PvP means, given the tools you have, that it's your job to roll around with the light armor dps and healers. Have you ever noticed that they are the ones targeted first? Guardians/Juggernauts, you get your force charge not so much to go after the enemy, but rather to get back to the guy beating on your healer, he's stunned now, reapply guard, taunt him, and keep him controlled til your dps can get on him. Same thing goes for you Powertechs that have a pull, but in reverse, so you can peel the threats off of your "clothies."

 

2 - I'm a healer and I can't out heal a dps 1 on 1:

 

No, you can't, because it's not your job... You have, as a healer, a great many tools at your disposal (stun breaks, knockbacks, instant cast stuns, sprints and slows) to allow you to control the target that jumped you and kite him back towards the tanks/dps. If the tank is doing his job, you can stand there all day and spam heals on yourself, but if you're all by your lonesome, don't expect for a minute that it will work... Constant movement and fluid adaptations to situations are what win in team based pvp...

 

3 - I'm a melee dps and I can't kill the ranged players 1 on 1:

 

Nope, no you can't, not if you keep running right at him while he kites you... Have the tank that should be running around with you pull him in, or stun him and sprint up. Perhaps look into using the enviornment to break LoS and let the fool run up looking for you. This is just unexcuseable for everyone, even the WoW junkies... Would you let a frost mage or hunter kite you til you're dead? Really? cause 2+2=dumb... don't pick ranged targets halfway across the field, and expect to own them...

 

4 - I'm a PvPer and Huttball is the worst game ever cause I never win...

 

Right... Ok... Play the game of Huttball, not the game of Mr. Stabby McStabberson... Kill the ball carrier when he picks it up in the middle, pass it to a teammate on the upper tier, as the dps jumps him, he'll stun break and pass the ball further down the field. Score, win, get stuff... The only thing in Huttball needing fixed is the ability to queue as an Ops group, (As I am sick of us queueing 2 groups seperately and winding up on different sides...) and those damn jets need to put you onto a random catwalk every time... I don't care which one, just make sure it doesn't waste 4-5 tries only to be thrown back into the middle...

 

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I know I'm not...

I find those that say 1v1 don't matter are the ones protecting there overpowered class in 1v1, we all know the game is balanced around team but that still does not mean that classes can not be closer balanced around 1v1, using this team balance excuse is a cop out from people trying to protect there OP class from being nerfed, also team pvp promotes cowardly game play, (See WoW), to fully balance pvp classes need to be balanced as close to 1v1 as you can get it.

 

you want unbalance 1v1 hanging from the bra of a healer then play WoW.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Nijraw

[Xinika]

So according to OP's logic ranged DPS should defeat anyone 1v1 ?

 

My thoughts exactly. I was agreeing till I got to that part and facepalmed.

[Jadarok]

I agree 100%. I really hope people don't cry nerf and buff so much that they just homogenize all the classes so much that every class can 1v1 every class with no real tactics. That's why WoW PvP failed.

 

 

 

Plus I LOVE Huttball when both teams "get it" Seeing the ball constantly passed around to bypass the long routes is a thing of beauty. But hopefully they make another "same faction" BG that is a little simpler for people to understand.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Jadarok

[UglyPete]

Go look at http://www.swtor.com/news/article and you will see the devs talking about what classes will win in 1v1 situations. They are discussing it in a lighthearted way, but still it shows that the Devs when it comes to pvp had no intention of making this a competitive team based pvp game. I believe they wanted pvp to be fun for people that want to be immersed in the game, and not for people to have debates like this.

 

This is not a system based around teamwork. It is a system based on huge cannons for weapons, lightsabers, and shooting lightning from your hands.

Edited December 26, 2011 by UglyPete

[TheFishes]

Responding to more than a few things in rapid succession, as my holiday took up my ranting time...

 

No one of you has played a sorcerer healer and don't know what you are talking about, you are OK with healers as they are because it's easy for you to kill them.

 

Actually, the OP (Me) and most of the people who originally replied to this do, in fact, play high level if not 50 healers, in pvp, on a regular basis...

 

Look at it this way: Your attacks have a fixed cast time, some of them instant. To counter a single attack that usually takes 1.5 seconds (GCD) we need to cast 1 heal that takes almost 3 seconds to cast, more if you take damage while casting. We can't break your instant casts, you can break our heals easily. We can CC for 4 seconds to cast a single heal and heal 2-3k hp that you can take away again in 1.5 seconds. You can CC for some seconds too breaking the current healing, preventing a healer from healing for that time, and making him start casting again when the cc goes off. You can drop him to 0% hp in that time and if he survives the CC or breaks it, you can break his next healing again and finish him.

 

Actually, to "Counter" one attack, or better yet, let's say you get jumped by a stealth class, they stun you and lay into you for half your health and you wanna counter THAT...

Electrocute

Resurgence

Sprint (not on GCD)

Dark Infusion once you're around some cover (now a 1.5 second cast or lower if you're properly specced)

Static Barrier

They're back on you so Overload to knockback

Whirlwind to CC (As they've probably already used their CC break)

Resurgence again to gain forcebending AGAIN

Dark Infusion @ a 1.5 or less second cast AGAIN...

100% Health, pissed off opponent

 

If by now you haven't trained them to the others in your BG (because all but 2 of these abilities are castable on the move) then you have no say in what healers should be able to do since you're playing yours poorly...

 

To be clear, I'm talking about SORCERERS here, that's the class I play and unlike you, I talk from the experience and about a class I know. We don't get spammable instant heals like some other classes, we don't have medium/heavy armor like other classes, and we don't get a shield for dmg absorb like other classes do.

 

It's funny because people seem to be hurt when a healer complains about healers being underpowered when they don't even play one.

 

And yeah, I know this game is based on teamwork, but that doesn't make it less true that healers are underpowered in PvP (at least sorcerers) and are close to useless unless you have a good team setup and your rivals are noobs that don't focus on you. I sometimes cast a heal on someone and 2-3 enemies jump on me, CC me and kill me before the CC is over. And even if they don't CC me, I can't cast at all because of the pushback and the looong cast time.

 

There is just too much dumb in this last portion for me to address, so I'll summarize...

 

1. We are playing healers, most of us Sorcs.

2. I'm complaining that we are perfectly balanced because we ARE if you're playing it right.

 

3. I never said a healer shouldn't SURVIVE a 1 on 1 encounter with a dps, I'm saying you shouldn't be able to stand there and OUTHEAL it...

 

4. As for your very last statement, /Shield/sprint/run

 

My brain hurts...

[TheFishes]

No, I didn't. But If you really are playing a 50 healer you should know you can't face dpsers in WZs. Maybe in regular PvP with a companion doing the DPS for you, but I don't think you stand a chance vs a good DPSer alone. Do you?

 

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT...

 

So now you want to heal AND dps an attacker... So now you want KILL the opposition yourself rather than just heal through them...

 

hmmmmmmm...

 

Interesting...

Edited December 26, 2011 by TheFishes

[Anelyn]

WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT WAIT...

 

So now you want to heal AND dps an attacker... So now you want KILL the opposition yourself rather than just heal through them...

 

hmmmmmmm...

 

Interesting...

 

See that's the reason Healers cry and QQ that they are underpowered in the game. They want to take no dmg from the dps, and giggle when 3 peeps beat on them, just shield up and gibb those 3 fools to EVEN DARE to attack them, because, thats right, they picked a healing spec AC.

 

You will of course be able to kill poorly played characters, but vs a decent dpser you will have very few moments to decide if you make a run for it, or try to hold on until backup arrives.

 

Playing a sin myself and a sage, and while from range with everyone ignoring me I can heal and put some hurt on peeps, i can't even expect that when one competent dps looks at me or 2+ gang me. Without team to support you, you are just a meat bag seriously.

 

On the opposite, I can't do **** vs a tank guarding a healer that know their game, no point to even try alone without someone on voice com too coordinate stuff together. But if I catch a healer on it's own away from the group / support, there is nothing he can do if I play my cards right, because excuse me, that's what my AC is good at :>

[cozert]

worst thread ever. pvp simply is clunky and unresponsive at the moment.

[Kyrandis]

It's quite simple...

 

This pvp system is based around teamwork. I've seen the following type posts, and I'd like to respond how I did after I got over the rage...

 

1 - I'm a tank spec tank class that can't kill anyone 1 on 1:

 

No, you can't, because it's not your job... Team based PvP means, given the tools you have, that it's your job to roll around with the light armor dps and healers. Have you ever noticed that they are the ones targeted first? Guardians/Juggernauts, you get your force charge not so much to go after the enemy, but rather to get back to the guy beating on your healer, he's stunned now, reapply guard, taunt him, and keep him controlled til your dps can get on him. Same thing goes for you Powertechs that have a pull, but in reverse, so you can peel the threats off of your "clothies."

 

2 - I'm a healer and I can't out heal a dps 1 on 1:

 

No, you can't, because it's not your job... You have, as a healer, a great many tools at your disposal (stun breaks, knockbacks, instant cast stuns, sprints and slows) to allow you to control the target that jumped you and kite him back towards the tanks/dps. If the tank is doing his job, you can stand there all day and spam heals on yourself, but if you're all by your lonesome, don't expect for a minute that it will work... Constant movement and fluid adaptations to situations are what win in team based pvp...

 

3 - I'm a melee dps and I can't kill the ranged players 1 on 1:

 

Nope, no you can't, not if you keep running right at him while he kites you... Have the tank that should be running around with you pull him in, or stun him and sprint up. Perhaps look into using the enviornment to break LoS and let the fool run up looking for you. This is just unexcuseable for everyone, even the WoW junkies... Would you let a frost mage or hunter kite you til you're dead? Really? cause 2+2=dumb... don't pick ranged targets halfway across the field, and expect to own them...

 

4 - I'm a PvPer and Huttball is the worst game ever cause I never win...

 

Right... Ok... Play the game of Huttball, not the game of Mr. Stabby McStabberson... Kill the ball carrier when he picks it up in the middle, pass it to a teammate on the upper tier, as the dps jumps him, he'll stun break and pass the ball further down the field. Score, win, get stuff... The only thing in Huttball needing fixed is the ability to queue as an Ops group, (As I am sick of us queueing 2 groups seperately and winding up on different sides...) and those damn jets need to put you onto a random catwalk every time... I don't care which one, just make sure it doesn't waste 4-5 tries only to be thrown back into the middle...

 

If I'm wrong, I'm wrong, but I know I'm not...

 

HERESY! This game is solely based on 1v1 and its Team Deathmatch Mode.

[MEdiKLEZ]

I agree with you but I still hate hutt ball for the fact that people just want to kill each other and not get the ball past the needed goal. Granted, I have been guilty of that myself, I am not going to lie. Team work is always number one when it comes to PvP success. If you don't have it, you don't win. People need to learn their roles and play them. I can't recall the amount of times I've had tanks try to take me down (Sith Assassin) while my teams ball handler just scores one after the other or vice versa. Frustrating.

 

Oh yes lol, i find that so hilarious

[Edmorte]

What happened to question 5, if you're ranged?

 

If you're ranged go crazy, kill everybody...

 

You're full of crap...

[Nuara]

 

2 - I'm a healer and I can't out heal a dps 1 on 1:

 

No, you can't, because it's not your job... You have, as a healer, a great many tools at your disposal (stun breaks, knockbacks, instant cast stuns, sprints and slows) to allow you to control the target that jumped you and kite him back towards the tanks/dps. If the tank is doing his job, you can stand there all day and spam heals on yourself, but if you're all by your lonesome, don't expect for a minute that it will work... Constant movement and fluid adaptations to situations are what win in team based pvp...

 

 

More like:

 

2 - I'm a healer and I cant heal cause the game is so damn bugged half my skills get stuck, I cant kite or LoS as it make my skills go "Cant do that while moving" for several seconds after I stop.

 

We win most of our games because I spec'ed dps and we run 4 ranged dps classes and assist train everything into the ground - tanks die before they can use defensive cooldowns due to the insane ability lag... and damage is just silly - can blow up a healer with guard in 1 GCD..