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Shield Specialist Trooper...flawed, broken? working as intended?


Punknaught

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Ok so this is the first time I have done PvP with a tank. I have researched all the things I can find and even the latest 2.10 Patch build/notes I have seen on class guides, seem to contradict each other.

 

One says to stack shield and absorb after endurance....then I see that most skills in PvP bypass that kind of protection, I have yet to find anything that officially says that in PvP abilities bypass those kinds of defenses.

 

So the question is, other than a few skills and protection, is the spec useless? Should mods just go damage and forget all the other stuff?

 

I did notice that I dodged a lot of stuff early on before shield and absorb mods. Level 20-40

Edited by Punknaught
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Ok so this is the first time I have done PvP with a tank. I have researched all the things I can find and even the latest 2.10 Patch build/notes I have seen on class guides, seem to contradict each other.

 

One says to stack shield and absorb after endurance....then I see that most skills in PvP bypass that kind of protection, I have yet to find anything that officially says that in PvP abilities bypass those kinds of defenses.

 

So the question is, other than a few skills and protection, is the spec useless? Should mods just go damage and forget all the other stuff?

 

I did notice that I dodged a lot of stuff early on before shield and absorb mods. Level 20-40

 

Defense i bypassed by about everything. Shield/absorb isn't. Only auto crit will bypass it. So for PvP Vang tank, it's Endu, then Shield ABsorb. Go with Endu heavy mods and enhancement. Endu heavy everything.

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Ok so this is the first time I have done PvP with a tank. I have researched all the things I can find and even the latest 2.10 Patch build/notes I have seen on class guides, seem to contradict each other.

 

One says to stack shield and absorb after endurance....then I see that most skills in PvP bypass that kind of protection, I have yet to find anything that officially says that in PvP abilities bypass those kinds of defenses.

 

So the question is, other than a few skills and protection, is the spec useless? Should mods just go damage and forget all the other stuff?

 

I did notice that I dodged a lot of stuff early on before shield and absorb mods. Level 20-40

 

The spec is not useless but unfortunately a lot worse in pvp than guardian. Read some guides. For regs you could choose hybrid or full ST with dps gear. For ranked arenas tank gear.

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if your goal is to tank, then you definitely want to stack endurance as guard is always the biggest thing you bring to the table (as a role). juggs have much better control (another job of the tank) with their choke, awe, push. VG/PT control is more about gap closing and interrupting (stuns but shorter duration). you have good resistance to elemental dmg and direct dmg in general. I think they're just supposed to be absorb machines, but that's not really how tank play works in pvp. unless you're at the top level of competition, though, you can do well on any class of tank. it's more about how you manage guard swaps, peels, etc. imo, it's the hardest job in pvp. you can very easily ferret out a good/bad tank. healing can disguise skill a little better (op heals), and any dps can be carried. so yeah. I think they're fine in BW's eyes. Edited by foxmob
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Could you elaborate a little on the Shield Specialist with DPS gear? I was trying to level (through unranked only) with endurance over aim, and planning on adding shield/absorb. Are you suggesting aim/power over endurance and aim-augmented with the Tanking Spec for more fun and profit? I haven't seen a good current guide on a tanking Vanguard in PvP, the latest I have seen was on DPS speced vans. Edited by DomiSotto
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Could you elaborate a little on the Shield Specialist with DPS gear? I was trying to level (through unranked only) with endurance over aim, and planning on adding shield/absorb. Are you suggesting aim/power over endurance and aim-augmented with the Tanking Spec for more fun and profit? I haven't seen a good current guide on a tanking Vanguard in PvP, the latest I have seen was on DPS speced vans.

It's more of a level 55 deal. Basically you use a DPS PvP set with offensive stats instead of Shield/Defense/Absorb. You get a shield as your offhand, put on Ion Gas Cylinder, go tank spec and all that, but the rest of your gear is optimised for DPS.

 

Due to the way Bolster and low level gearing works, this is a little less viable before high levels. It is difficult, for example, do get any mods/enhancements with Shield/Defense/Absorb before you reach mid-30's or so. In short, your initial guess was very close to the mark.

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Okay, so Before Obroan, I will just follow an End/Shield/Absorb path. Thank you for the clarification! :)

I am not an expert, but I agree with Zoom_VI. The DPS gear increases your damage output, but the true utility of a tank lies elsewhere. My PT has two sets, because I occasionally go Pyro, but when I tank, I prefer the tank set. Both sets are augmented with Aim augments, however, because the hitpoints (tank augs give none) make Guarding easier and the +9% Aim talent makes Reflex augs nicer than Overkill ones.

 

I just explained the strategy of using a DPS set, but I don't agree with it.

Edited by Elusive_Thing
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I am not an expert, but I agree with Zoom_VI. The DPS gear increases your damage output, but the true utility of a tank lies elsewhere. My PT has two sets, because I occasionally go Pyro, but when I tank, I prefer the tank set. Both sets are augmented with Aim augments, however, because the hitpoints (tank augs give none) make Guarding easier and the +9% Aim talent makes Reflex augs nicer than Overkill ones.

 

I just explained the strategy of using a DPS set, but I don't agree with it.

 

Why didn't you take Fortitude augs? ~42k HP on my VG, with just obroan.

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Why didn't you take Fortitude augs? ~42k HP on my VG, with just obroan.

To be honest, out of laziness. I didn't have the Prototype schems for Fortitude then and I crafted augments for my Merc, got some crits and all that. If I did ranked with the PT, I'd make the switch, but since I only do my Weekly in regs, I figured I can make do with Reflex augs.

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If you go tank VG ditch the 4 piece Supercommando bonus for the 2 piece Combat Tech bonus. The supercommando 4 piece (5% extra damage while guarding) is not as useful as the 2 piece Combat Tech (increases the duration of Neural Surge/Carbonize by .5 seconds and reduce the CD of your CC break by 15 seconds). Damage isn't as important as tank and being able to control opponents and be slightly less vulnerable to control will help a lot more.
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Don't do the DPS gear route, you will just fall apart the moment you encounter a competent DPS. Some people think its viable because they can tank the trash in some regs matches, but really you are serving no one by doing it.

 

Only for regs, if tank tactics are followed and a healer is present has immense effect. Even with competitive opponents.

Better start with full tank gear.

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I actually have Fortitude on right now (on level 22, yeah) 'cause I do not have a proper tanking shield so mitigation is useless, but I was thinking I want mitigation because with the damages people hit for in a WZ and while guarding the hitpoints difference just doesn't seem to be that different and last long enough (that 5000-8000 hit points represents one sabre hit or half a backstabb).

 

From my DPS'ing on L55, I know there are guys that basically untouchable (as in I can empty my full rotation into them and leave not a scratch if I keep on pumping stupid DPS on them), and a LOT of it is Resolve, but I thought they would also have Shield/absorb. Or is it just Resolve?

Edited by DomiSotto
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I actually have Fortitude on right now (on level 22, yeah) 'cause I do not have a proper tanking shield so mitigation is useless, but I was thinking I want mitigation because with the damages people hit for in a WZ and while guarding the hitpoints difference just doesn't seem to be that different and last long enough (that 5000-8000 hit points represents one sabre hit or half a backstabb).

 

From my DPS'ing on L55, I know there are guys that basically untouchable (as in I can empty my full rotation into them and leave not a scratch if I keep on pumping stupid DPS on them), and a LOT of it is Resolve, but I thought they would also have Shield/absorb. Or is it just Resolve?

 

More likely a DCD. Resolve just protect from stun/mezz/KB/KD not from damage.

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Only for regs, if tank tactics are followed and a healer is present has immense effect. Even with competitive opponents.

 

Not really, the only tank class that can get away with that is the Guardian and even then they are still somewhat easy to bring down once ED is gone.

 

With a VG tank in dps gear its cakewalk. Whenever I see a guard go up in regs I automatically check to see who the guarder is and if its someone who is obvious not running full tank I swap to him, and even if he has a healer I can usually burn him down. VG is particularly vulnerable since outside of pyro there is only one mitigation DcD, which makes tank tunneling easy.

Edited by Zoom_VI
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Oh, I don't need specifics, I just wanted to know the general principle, and what is better Mitigation or HP++ on a tank'ling.

 

And, duh, I meant Expertise, not Resole, DUH. It's been a long day of corporate BS.

 

lol... Expertise is constant for everyone (assuming no one is in 162+ PvE). And HP is ALWAYS better for a tank. 4 AC relies on melee/ranged. Of those, only 10 spec are DPS. Two spec (Focus/Rage both AC) use as its main damage force move. Both Mando/Merc DPS spec uses their fair share of tech attacks. One Sniper/Slinger spec completely ignore defense with its DoTs. The other is full of high damage tech abilities. Only the third one relies on ranged abilities to get the most out of their DPS. Carnage/Combat autocrit is a Force ability. So all in all defense is really useful against 3 DPS specs and somewhat effective against 7 more. Sometime it also help against Shadow/Sin so 2 more specs. It's good but nothing worth spending much over it. Shield/absorb works against everything. But is random. And an auto-crit (or anything with more crit chance than you have chance to NOT proc your shield) will push your shield chance off the table. Most spec have high crit attacks or auto-crits. So again mitigation isn't really useful. So tank should max out for HP. Then shield/absorb. Also check out the set bonus. Most tank will use a 2p tank 2p DPS.

 

Min/maxed in Brute, a Guardian (without +Endu talent) can get over 42k HP.

Edited by Ryuku-sama
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Not really, the only tank class that can get away with that is the Guardian and even then they are still somewhat easy to bring down once ED is gone.

 

With a VG tank in dps gear its cakewalk. Whenever I see a guard go up in regs I automatically check to see who the guarder is and if its someone who is obvious not running full tank I swap to him, and even if he has a healer I can usually burn him down. VG is particularly vulnerable since outside of pyro there is only one mitigation DcD, which makes tank tunneling easy.

 

Getting more in details. I use power - shield enhancements, some shield augments, 34k hp and rest dps. A lot of times with a good healer could stand heavy attacks even tunneling in regs. Not for 4x4 ranked.

Our "Ed" is even more reliable. Adrenaline + medpack = 80% hp. Shield + full st dr + adren = 92% dr for 12s. It is not just 1 more dcd to Pyro.

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lol... Expertise is constant for everyone (assuming no one is in 162+ PvE)..

 

Just a clarification, pretty sure that Domi's tank is sub-30 right now. So expertise is not constant, because not everyone has all the slots fill-able yet. That said, I don't really know how much affect the lower expertise of a lvl 10 (say - who doesn't have relics, implants, etc) has against a lvl 30 who is all decked out. And the rest of your post was way over my expertise level (get it? :D), so I have nothing to say about that.

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Okay, I am going to really show the depth of my ignorance here, but is there a ceiling for the HP? In other words, if everything is endurance over aim, and all the augments are Fortitude, does all of it stuck up, or does any go to waste (I assume that Shield/Absorb then comes from Enh + Left side). Apologies if I am hard to understand, I am really tired, but I am also curious. :)
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Okay, I am going to really show the depth of my ignorance here, but is there a ceiling for the HP? In other words, if everything is endurance over aim, and all the augments are Fortitude, does all of it stuck up, or does any go to waste (I assume that Shield/Absorb then comes from Enh + Left side). Apologies if I am hard to understand, I am really tired, but I am also curious. :)

 

There is no Diminishing return over Endurance. 1 Endu = roughly 10HP. Always. But as I said, in Brut, a Guardian will top at 42k if he is decked in full endu. A Vang will probably top at 43k. That's just the top PvP gear in the game right now. Nothing you can do to get more Endu than that.

Edited by Ryuku-sama
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