The Scam/Not a Scam debate storyline

[khsolo]

To play devil's advocate for a moment to the players that are very adamant to BW developing some additional safeguard against overpriced items, why do you seem to only view this issue through that particular prism?

 

What about those sellers that forget a zero on their prices? The hypercrate that is supposed to sell for 3,200,000 accidentally gets listed at 320,000. I have yet to see any threads about sellers complaining that there isn't a confirmation window, or an additional layer of protection for those instances.

 

And I think the reason you don't is because (pulling numbers out of my rear) 90% of the community would say that that is the sellers fault. That is the sellers mistake, and while it's unfortunate that in the above listed example a player lost nearly 2.9 million credits on a transaction, people will say live and learn.

 

So isn't it just as fair to apply that same "be careful with what you click, and read what your doing, and just slow down for a moment" to the situation for the buyers that are falling for the unusually high price per unit items? Why should one end of a transactional economy be so heavily scrutinized and lead to threads upon threads, but when the exact mistake (intentional or not) is reversed, not so much as a peep.

 

I know that I have bought items that were accidentally priced too low. Most people that do call them bargains! I've bought ONE item that was overpriced. As soon as I did, I noticed what happened, chuckled to myself as I knew I'd made a mistake. And it hasn't happened again.

 

I'm in the "take responsibility for your actions, learn from your mistakes" camp. I don't think this issue needs to be addressed by the devs.

 

Maybe you should start a thread about the sellers problem, my problem is this one and i believe its very legit to ask for something that will make me as a customer use the systems put in place to do a legit transaction

 

Im a paying custumer and so are many people who have been scammed intentionally and with the purpuse of substracting credits from others using the system put in place by BW and making people ask for some kind of a safeguard

 

A dissatisfied customer is a bad customer for BW ingame and outside the game and i will make it so this thread stays on top as so will be the thread on the suggestion box until addressed

[Theeko]

People always forget to use the Cost Range which has been in the game ever since the beginning back in beta.

[Fantazm]

Thats and attiude that makes me think you are one of them

 

When you run 200 or 300 transactions daily its bound to happen sometime

 

Easier to just ban then in my gtn dialog and not having them show up with their scam, im not talking about having bioware ban them im talking about having myself ban them

 

No, but the more I see people moan about it on here the more I think I should give it a try.

 

Quit crying.

 

You chose to sort the items in whatever way you did, you chose to click on them, you chose to confirm it.

 

The problem is yours.

[Andryah]

I have a better idea ill suggest they remove /ignore from chat and forums and ill spam you email, forums and chat so much that you come here begging they introduce some kind of safeguard

 

Go right ahead pal. I don't use them. Why? Because as a fully functioning adult... I simply use my mind to ignore any player that offends me in any way.

 

The mind is your most powerful filter to your environment (real or virtual). Use it IMO.

 

Maybe you are benefiting from it and thats why you point the free market finger at something thats obviuosly made to scam people

 

LOL. Now you are applying absurd accusation and personal attack to the discussion. Oh.. and you spelled obviously wrong.

 

In point of fact... as a major GTN trader... I help keep prices down on scarce items as I buy and sell later... but when I sell I sell at a fixed mark-up even if the current listings are much higher. See... I actually know fair market prices, scalper prices, and discount prices on each of my three servers.

Edited November 8, 2014 by Andryah

[Fantazm]

The more I see people crying about this, the more tempted I am to give it a go.

[LordArtemis]

Maybe you are benefiting from it and thats why you point the free market finger at something thats obviuosly made to scam people

 

That is highly unlikely Khsolo and rather unfair. You can disagree with Andryah without making spurious accusations.

[khsolo]

Go right ahead pal. I don't use them. Why? Because as a fully functioning adult... I simply use my mind to ignore any player that offends me in any way.

 

The mind is your most powerful filter to your environment (real or virtual). Use it IMO.

 

 

 

LOL. Now you are applying absurd accusation and personal attack to the discussion. Oh.. and you spelled obviously wrong.

 

In point of fact... as a major GTN trader... I help keep prices down on scarce items as I buy and sell later... but when I sell I sell at a fixed mark-up even if the current listings are much higher. See... I actually know fair market prices, scalper prices, and discount prices on each of my three servers.

 

Good for you

 

Il continue this conversation in the suggestion box where ill push for a /ignore filter so i will not see others stuff on the GTN from vendors or persons i believe untrustworthy

[_NovaBlast_]

people blame the seller for something they should have paid more attention to . its called taking responsibility for your own carelessness. Dont blame the sellers when you were the one who pushed the buy button. I have never been "scammed" on gtn and i never will be becase i actually pay attention to what i am doing .

[LordArtemis]

Well, I all fairness neither have I, but I would still enjoy a flag I could place on a player so i could drop their sales to the bottom of the list, and ones I like to the top.

[Max_Killjoy]

people blame the seller for something they should have paid more attention to . its called taking responsibility for your own carelessness. Dont blame the sellers when you were the one who pushed the buy button. I have never been "scammed" on gtn and i never will be becase i actually pay attention to what i am doing .

 

People blame the buyer for something that the seller shouldn't have done. It's called assigning responsibility for their attempt to deceive Don't blame the buyer when it's the seller who typed in the price intending to trick someone and pushed the SELL button.

 

This is not a one-sided issue.

[eartharioch]

First of all you cannot do what you want to do: block seller names from showing up on the GTN list. That is simply not part of the system.

 

He's not the first to propose it; imo, something like it would be my #2 solution to the problem (#1, of course, is just display the per-unit price consistently). And there IS a problem.

 

The problem isn't that a few careless people occasionally lose some credits -- that's not worth adding in a black listing / filtering system to prevent. The problem is that people are spamming the GTN with offers that will only be accepted by mistake.

 

Spam is bad. So are spammers.

[_NovaBlast_]

People blame the buyer for something that the seller shouldn't have done. It's called assigning responsibility for their attempt to deceive Don't blame the buyer when it's the seller who typed in the price intending to trick someone and pushed the SELL button.

 

This is not a one-sided issue.

 

I respectfully disagree with you . I have seen such attempts and avoided them . So i would assume that i am an average person and if i can avoid such an attempt then its safe to assume that it is "possible" so if its "possible" that others can as well.

 

This doesn't make what the seller is doing acceptable but the fact remains the buyer should have been more careful in the end it was the buyers carelessness on looking a t gtn that cased the seller to "make a sale"

Edited November 8, 2014 by _NovaBlast_

[Malorey]

.... it's the seller who typed in the price intending to trick someone and pushed the SELL button....

 

He didn't intend to trick someone....he intended to take advantage of someone who was careless/stupid enough not to check what they were buying.

[rashadk]

I think the devs should step up and prevent fractional pricing. I'm in favor personal responsibility and all, but obvious attempts to deceive that can ruin other clients 'financial' situation in the game can't be good for business. Or how about a sort system that actually remembers the setting instead of having to resort every damn time. That alone would save me tens of thousands of mouse clicks a year.

 

OPs solution is in no way realistic. Still, they should do something. A small measure on their part would prevent this. I don't even feel too sorry for the poor saps that got taken as I feel anger towards the vermin that do stuff like this. I just hate when scum benefit from having no conscious.

[eartharioch]

Well, I all fairness neither have I, but I would still enjoy a flag I could place on a player so i could drop their sales to the bottom of the list, and ones I like to the top.

 

Or just gray-out listings from the...gray list...and disable the purchase button. If somebody really wants to buy something from a gray-listed seller, take the seller off your list.

[XiamaraSimi]

I think sellers should be rated. A flag system, or an ignore system would accomplish this at no detriment to the market. The game would benefit overall, as would it's playerbase.

 

And what's to stop this system from being abused. Bob sells augments. He puts his up for 110,000 credits. Jim starts selling augments too, but sells his for 105,000 credits.

 

Bob gets mad, complains to his friends/guildies, and since he is in a very large guild, he has 100+ friends/guildmated downvote Jim because he doesn't like the competition.

 

Before you go all rightious and say " But no one would ever do that..." let me point you to Star Trek online. They have a mute system where if X amount of people "ignore you in a time period, you get silenced/banned for 24-72 hours automatically by the system.

 

There are entire troll/douchebag fleets there who will do it on purpose. Pick some schlub, and have the entire fleet "ignore" them so they get system smacked.

[_NovaBlast_]

He didn't intend to trick someone....he intended to take advantage of someone who was careless/stupid enough not to check what they were buying.

 

QFT this is basically what scammers do offline to ... have you ever gotten a " you have won a million dollars " or similar email ... would you fall for that ? same goes for gtn

[Warrgames]

Here is another reason why adding another layer of protection wouldn't work. Most player that do this use an alt. You ignore that alt and they will make a new one. You can use the GTN at level 1 now. Simply port to your SH. So you will end up with a full GTN only ignore list and the problem isn't solved. Simple use the tools that are already in game.

[Anniahilus]

So i guess being Maduff is ok with you as well

 

I'm honestly not sure what a "Maduff" is. Guess I'm not up on the lingo. Googled it and it appeared to be a lawyer?

 

Im sorry if i dont agree, i do believe in a free market system but i would also like controls for myself to help me make better choices and avoid mistakes, again its being done with all intentions of being a scam it has purpuse, it was intentional and you are ripping off people, its should be adressed

 

It's ok to disagree on opinions. But when you say that you believe in a "free market", do you mean a truly free market, or do you mean a market that actively blocks sellers and avenues of commerce? Quick note: I've never sold anything for a "scam" price, just in case someone were to believe that I'm a "scammer defending scammers".

 

Im not asking BW to step in and ban these fellas its my mistake only im asking for a filter where i get to choose who do i buy from and who i dont buy from, just like i dont buy chevrolets or hondas but toyotas

 

When making an argument, I'd recommend not admitting that the fault of the transgression was your "mistake." Lessens the impact of any sort of argument when the opposing side can point to "it's my mistake."

 

I see nothing wrong with that and i do see many things wrong about a system that induces others mistakes for the benefit of a few, thats bad for bussines and bad for BW

 

While I see your viewpoint, I just don't agree with it.

[LordArtemis]

Or just gray-out listings from the...gray list...and disable the purchase button. If somebody really wants to buy something from a gray-listed seller, take the seller off your list.

 

Yea, something like that would work, but I would also like some way to flagging my favorite sellers as well. That way I can reward them with my patronage on a consistent basis.

 

And what's to stop this system from being abused. Bob sells augments. He puts his up for 110,000 credits. Jim starts selling augments too, but sells his for 105,000 credits.

 

Bob gets mad, complains to his friends/guildies, and since he is in a very large guild, he has 100+ friends/guildmated downvote Jim because he doesn't like the competition.

 

Before you go all rightious and say " But no one would ever do that..." let me point you to Star Trek online. They have a mute system where if X amount of people "ignore you in a time period, you get silenced/banned for 24-72 hours automatically by the system.

 

There are entire troll/douchebag fleets there who will do it on purpose. Pick some schlub, and have the entire fleet "ignore" them so they get system smacked.

 

I don't really see this as an issue. Sure, one could perhaps do that. The individuals could all decide to avoid purchases from that player...but couldn't they do that already?

 

This system relies on your choice personally, and that choice is only viewable by you. The sale is still displayed, it is simply moved to the top or bottom of your list based on how you refine the order of that list, if a flag system was put in place.

 

No one else can see the flags you place on a player. So, certainly, a group of players could agree to flag a particular player, but they could just as easily agree not to buy from that player based on his or her name, which is clearly displayed.

 

So I don't think this suggestion creates a situation where griefing can occur of any kind.

[LordArtemis]

Here is another reason why adding another layer of protection wouldn't work. Most player that do this use an alt. You ignore that alt and they will make a new one. You can use the GTN at level 1 now. Simply port to your SH. So you will end up with a full GTN only ignore list and the problem isn't solved. Simple use the tools that are already in game.

 

This is a good point, but this also mirrors the current ignore system in game IMO.

 

I don't see this limitation as a reason NOT to do it, but it could be argued that it would not be as effective as some folks might thing for this very reason, as is the problem with the current ignore system.

[Theeko]

Best way to avoid not spending millions on the overpriced mats, is to simply adjust the "Cost Range" that has been put into the game since day 1.

[Max_Killjoy]

He didn't intend to trick someone....he intended to take advantage of someone who was careless/stupid enough not to check what they were buying.

 

"He didn't intend to kill him, only poison him, light him on fire, and cut his head off."

[Tsillah]

Ok, what in the world am I not understanding about this fractional pricing "scam?!"

 

You're saying that if you're shopping for an item that normally costs ~3,000 credits per unit and someone lists one item for a cost of ~3,000,000 credits that'll you'll buy the overpriced one by mistake?!

 

How is 3,999.99 credits similar enough to 3,999,999 credits that it's pulling the wool over your eyes? Any number with a decimal mark in it only has two digits after it. A non-fractional number will have three digits after the final comma delimiter.

 

Apart from this difference in the actual number of digits at the end of a number, there is the difference in the total digits in the numbers overall. 3,999.99 has six digits and 3,999,999 has seven digits.

 

And even apart from both of those major differences, the GTN provides a unit price sort option, from smallest to largest, if you click on the unit price heading twice.

 

The Developers don't need to spend the time to add multiple layers to the GTN system to protect you from yourself. They already assumed you were going to make foolish errors and added the "ARE YOU SURE YOU WANT TO BUY THIS ITEM FOR 3,999,999 CREDITS" confirmation dialogue to the purchasing process.

 

You are 100% personally responsible for either 1) not reading that warning text or 2) turning it off.

 

A protection system is already in place. Use it.

 

First of all, I don't have a problem myself. I do pay attention and I have not been a victim of these scam attempts.

 

What happens though is that when you sort on price it either sorts with the highest price on top or the lowest. If the lowest price is for example 1240.72 credits (people do bulk sales so there's often a couple of spaces behind the dot and then someone sets a price of 999,760 credits which is then the highest people make that mistake sometimes when sorting on unit price.

 

Why do people make mistakes? Well, you and I may feel superior for mastering basic math but not everybody is good at that. It's not something everybody can learn to the same degree no matter how simple you think it is. In essence you underestimate yourself if you think this.

 

Also people can be in a hurry or tired when playing late at night etc.

 

Now, these are all human mistakes and if taking care they can be avoided. However, we have to recognise that there are people who puposefully set these prices like this to trick the unsuspecting buyer. And no matter who you blame for that in the end, it's still a dick move and it is a scam as such even though he technically didn't break any rules.

 

The car builder Ford brought something on the market a few years ago. It's a system that disallows you to put the wrong fuel in the car. Now there you can say, but wait, that's just people being stupid. It's their own fault. You may even be right. But Ford implemented it anyway. Why?

 

Simple. They want to keep customers. And customers don't always want to be on their toes all the time and be protected from their own stupidities or mistakes when possible. Is that good or bad? Who can really make a fair judgment about that?

 

We don't expect someone without a medical degree to be up to speed on all medical procedures, but apparently we do expect people who really are bad with numbers to be responsible for that. In the end this game is a product and as an MMO a service. If this is situation that persists, no matter who's at fault, it will cost customers.

 

And if you think they're idiots that's your choice but these so called idiots are part of what keeps this game alive. It's just another approach to don't bite the hand that feeds you. In this case, don't bite the hand that helps you keep a game you like going.

[LordArtemis]

Best way to avoid not spending millions on the overpriced mats, is to simply adjust the "Cost Range" that has been put into the game since day 1.

 

I believe you have already mentioned this Theeko.

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7788091#post7788091