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Marauder and Sentinel re-make/vamp


xero_complex

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Now here is the thing, out of all the classes that there are to choose from these two are broken, terribly broken. These classes have abilities/skills, that in the long run aren't even useful toward the end as you continue to level up. These classes also lack in the stun breakout department as well as knockback abilities. I will list some skills and abilities now that should be changed, reworked, or simply made to "Actually" do something significant. The very last one is a basic of the main class that should be reworked.

 

Undying Rage/Guarded By The Force

Force Camouflage

Crippling Slash/Leg Slash

Annihilate/Merciless Strike

Deadly Saber/Overload Saber

Gore/Precision Slash

Massacre/Blade Rush

Sweeping Slash/Cyclone Slash

 

Each of these have their own issues or non-helpful attributes. For example, Force Camouflage lasts us 4 seconds only to have a 45 second cooldown which is closer to a full minute. In PvE, the only thing it's good for is a quick bypass of a small ground of enemies only to face the next group a few feet away. In PvP, it's useless, hands down useless. Hardly anybody uses it for that matter.

 

Another example is Undying Rage/Guarded By The Force. Now it's bad enough that these classes get stunned like no tomorrow which isn't really balanced at all, but why should we be penalized for at least making sure we don't get cluster f'ed for once again a mere 4 seconds only to lose 50% of our current health. How is that balanced let alone fair?

 

I would suggest that the development team and the creators of these classes go back and look at them again. With updates now a days, nerfs and buffs happen all the time. The only thing the Marauder/Jedi Sentinel had going for them was the Smash stacks, but that got nerfed. I want to play as a Marauder/Jedi Sentinel without the fact of knowing how broken these classes are and being able to actually have fun with them instead of getting annoyed with them. If I have listed any abilities from above the people agree with, please show your support. If people disagree, please state your reasons why or what you would change/other abilities that would need to be reworked.

Edited by xero_complex
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Now here is the thing, out of all the classes that there are to choose from these two are broken, terribly broken. These classes have abilities/skills, that in the long run aren't even useful toward the end as you continue to level up. These classes also lack in the stun breakout department as well as knockback abilities. I will list some skills and abilities now that should be changed, reworked, or simply made to "Actually" do something significant. The very last one is a basic of the main class that should be reworked.

 

Undying Rage/Guarded By The Force

Force Camouflage

Crippling Slash/Leg Slash

Annihilate/Merciless Strike

Deadly Saber/Overload Saber

Gore/Precision Slash

Massacre/Blade Rush

Sweeping Slash/Cyclone Slash

 

Each of these have their own issues or non-helpful attributes. For example, Force Camouflage lasts us 4 seconds only to have a 45 second cooldown which is closer to a full minute. In PvE, the only thing it's good for is a quick bypass of a small ground of enemies only to face the next group a few feet away. In PvP, it's useless, hands down useless. Hardly anybody uses it for that matter.

 

Another example is Undying Rage/Guarded By The Force. Now it's bad enough that these classes get stunned like no tomorrow which isn't really balanced at all, but why should we be penalized for at least making sure we don't get cluster f'ed for once again a mere 4 seconds only to lose 50% of our current health. How is that balanced let alone fair?

 

I would suggest that the development team and the creators of these classes go back and look at them again. With updates now a days, nerfs and buffs happen all the time. The only thing the Marauder/Jedi Sentinel had going for them was the Smash stacks, but that got nerfed. I want to play as a Marauder/Jedi Sentinel without the fact of knowing how broken these classes are and being able to actually have fun with them instead of getting annoyed with them. If I have listed any abilities from above the people agree with, please show your support. If people disagree, please state your reasons why or what you would change/other abilities that would need to be reworked.

 

Are you speaking only from a pvp standpoint? Because sentinels do very well in PVE...

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I get the feeling that you've never actually played a game with a broken class before.

 

I get the feeling he doesn't even understand the purpose of the abilities...

 

For example, Force Camo's primary purpose has nothing to do with stealth (though that can be used advantageously to skip some mobs). Force Camo is a threat dump. The purpose in PVE is to get aggro off the sentinel and back to whoever is supposed to have aggro; typically a tank.

 

Guarded by the Force? Okay... let's say you use that ability when you are at 5k health, and you suspect a 28k hit is soon to hit you. Guarded by the Force makes that 28k hit into a 2.5k health loss... you really don't think that's advantageous in PVE?

 

I'm sorry, but OP doesn't really understand the sentinel...

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I would appreciate it if you don't bash me. You may think you're not, but you're insulting me. As for stand points, I'm talking both PvE and PvP. The higher you get in level wise, the more useless some of these abilities become or become more of a hindrance.

 

Please refer to my comments about the two key abilities you brought up. They are incredibly useful, especially in end game operations...

 

Edit: And quite frankly saying that these abilities become useless or hindrance is flat out a falsehood.

 

Force Camouflage - Threat dump. Absolutely important for end game operations and lets you skip mobs.

Crippling Slash/Leg Slash - Movement impairing ability, mostly useful for PVP.

Annihilate/Merciless Strike - Merciless Slash is useless? It's key to the Watchman rotation. It takes Cauterize off cooldown, letting you keep your dots applied to the target.

Deadly Saber/Overload Saber - A key dot for the Watchman spec. 3 stacks + Zen = lots of damage.

Gore/Precision Slash & Massacre/Blade Rush - Admittedly, I am less familiar with Combat spec, but Combat is parsing very well these days, so clearly these abilities have their advantage.

 

Sweeping Slash/Cyclone Slash - Generally, not a useful ability, but it does have moments where AoE is good to have while Force Sweep is on cooldown.

 

And if that is the only ability that has limited utility then still sounds like Sentinel are doing alright. Which means, as I said before, that it seems you don't fully understand the Sentinel class. There's nothing wrong with that... I fully admit I don't understand the Combat spec for example. But I know to check with people on the class forums, Dulfy, other players on my server, etc before I call for a revamp / rework to the class.

Edited by azudelphi
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I main a sentinel and the only ability in your list i find i hardly ever use is cyclone slash. Even it has a use though, with the rage/focus changes cyclone slash becomes your only non targeted AOE, meaning its your only chance to pull a combat stealth back into combat. The rest... well yes GBTF nerf was harsh especially with so many other classes having an oh crap button with no drawbacks besides a cooldown, but its still useful.
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I think you need to look back and re-think on that need to be done with the classes. the point is I think you want to have an advantage for PVP and not as much for PVE. like a saying if it not broken do not fix it. the classes have been going though a balance phase for 2 and 7 month change.

 

The other side to the coin you stir up negative waves when you mention Nurfing this and nurfing that. just let player enjoy the game play. I was on the beta team long before the game went public beta. the beta testing was not long enough to get the game issues fixed.

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The other side to the coin you stir up negative waves when you mention Nurfing this and nurfing that. just let player enjoy the game play. I was on the beta team long before the game went public beta. the beta testing was not long enough to get the game issues fixed.

 

I never mentioned anywhere about nerfing anything. I mentioned the 2 classes had a nerfing which was to the smash ability.

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I never mentioned anywhere about nerfing anything. I mentioned the 2 classes had a nerfing which was to the smash ability.

 

It doesn't matter if nerfing was mentioned. Yes, smash spec was nerfed in PVP (significant nerf) and now requires a target in PVE (minor nerf).

 

That being said, your original premise is incorrect... at least for PVE.

Edited by azudelphi
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It doesn't matter if nerfing was mentioned. Yes, smash spec was nerfed in PVP (significant nerf) and now requires a target in PVE (minor nerf).

 

That being said, your original premise is incorrect... at least for PVE.

 

really. OP sounds like he does nothing but strike strike strike, slash slash slash for a rotation.

 

half the abilities he mentioned are core to the watchman spec

Others are core to the combat spec

 

Force camo is not only the main threat dump (ask any tank how important force camo is on this class) but it also gives you a minor speed boost (30%) and can also be used as a def cooldown (50% reduced damage).

 

sents/mara's are some of the highest parsing classes in the game.

 

I hate to say it but this screams L2P sents/maras are extremely powerful AND bring in loads of utility to raids (zen/inspiration/transcendence) To the point that they've been nerfed quite a bit (1% self heals down to .5%, inspiration now has a 5m debuff raid wide).

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It doesn't matter if nerfing was mentioned. Yes, smash spec was nerfed in PVP (significant nerf) and now requires a target in PVE (minor nerf).

 

That being said, your original premise is incorrect... at least for PVE.

 

It was ALSO nerfed in PvE but not by a large amount. Seeing as I keep getting bashed for my own opinions which I am entitled to, can a moderator please close this topic seeing as people haven't even read the sticky about the rules.

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It was ALSO nerfed in PvE but not by a large amount. Seeing as I keep getting bashed for my own opinions which I am entitled to, can a moderator please close this topic seeing as people haven't even read the sticky about the rules.

 

Yes, I said it was nerfed in PVE... as it now requires a target in melee range to execute the attack. Very minor; focus spec'd guildy of mine parses just fine in PVE.

 

In all seriousness, I'm not bashing you... but you haven't explained what needs to be reworked though. You've merely said that the abilities gained through the watchman and combat trees are useless (contrarily Merciless Slash and Overcharge Saber are critical to the spec), while providing no evidence or basis for that claim.

 

I've provided information that is counter to your claims; like the fact camo is useless because you can only stealth for 4 seconds when the ability is primarily a threat dump and the stealth aspect is icing on the cake. As the other poster said, Maras and Sents are parsing incredibly well, so clearly they aren't in need of serious rework in terms of raw damage.

 

This isn't about you individually, but rather that your suggestion submission makes no sense and that you have said things that are flat out false! If anything, maybe if you elaborated some more we could see if there is an issue with say, your rotation or knowledge of the abilities, or perhaps we can better understand the issues you seem to see.

Edited by azudelphi
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ok, lets try this again then since OP seems to think we're bashing.

 

Are you talking about sents/maras "end game" or <55 leveling?

What is your Spec (Watchman/combat/Focus)?

 

are you having specific difficulties or just things in general? some skills are designed as force builders while others are your damage dealers. Are you looking for a more bursty type of game play or sustained/damage over time or perhaps more AOE focused?

 

What other classes have you played and what are you specifically looking for out of these classes?

 

some skills are more useful at lower levels as they are replaced with better skills later on but may have a very niche use (force choke for example).

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