A Tank speaks up for Healers

[Dark_Mithrandir]

16-man NiM TFB can be interesting to heal at times still. Same as S&V Warlords. But in general you are right of course. DF has been nerfed to oblivion and probably same will happen to DP. Which frustrates me even more as I still haven't killed council and had very limited tries on it. If it happens this week it will be way overdue.

 

True dat,

 

Yeahy 2phase operator 16 NiM is fun time for healers xD. Probably one of hardest challenge for healers at 2.10?

 

The fun thing is that at the moment s&v NiM (Balanced for underworld gear and kell dragon gear) is "harder" to heal than dF NiM (dread forge - dread master gear).

 

But we all know that tor devs are focusing the game to a casual play style and i understand it bc it's what gives revenue to the company.

[AAAAzrael]

Yeahy 2phase operator 16 NiM is fun time for healers xD. Probably one of hardest challenge for healers at 2.10?

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You can now bring even 6 healers there if you want as the DPS check is non existant (you can safely 2-3man cores to be fair) . But the outgoing damage is interesting. Also last phase of Brontes is still interesting. And 16-man Corruptor Zero can be interesting But it's more about scaling to 16-man that is not quite right and most players not being used to 16-man NiM (I am surely not used to it) then a challenge itself. Current buffed Council NiM is completely different beast then all those fights.

 

The fun thing is that at the moment s&v NiM (Balanced for underworld gear and kell dragon gear) is "harder" to heal than dF NiM (dread forge - dread master gear).

 

Only 2-3 places there are hard to heal - Thrasher has his crazy spikes and then it's warlords and maybe some combinations of droids in Olok the Shadow. On other bosses healers are mostly falling asleep.

 

But we all know that tor devs are focusing the game to a casual play style and i understand it bc it's what gives revenue to the company.

 

I think there is room for everyone, but it's not about playstyle, but about not trying to get better. As much time people put into griding comms in SM PUGs they could get much better at playing their classes. But developers don't seem to give them any kind of instruction that is in any way meaningful.

Edited September 3, 2014 by AAAAzrael

[Kaedusz]

The original post contains some well intentioned and idealistic bs that has doesn't survive a reality check. Edited September 3, 2014 by Kaedusz

[nrevox]

I love healing. Its wonderful when I find a good op group, but is painful at other times. The few guilds that I was in have all disbanded, so I mainly bounce around on a few servers as solo healer, pugging for fun, or helping out as heals where I can. I can honestly say I have not had as many bad experiences as other people have. There are some!! but not enough to make me go postal on my keyboard.

 

I know absolutely nothing about tanking, I have never had a chance to really learn it. I DO know that a tank has "cooldowns" and shields and stuff to mitigate incoming damage to some degree. And I know a few tanks out there that don't use them like they should LOL. But I can't really criticize because I have never been in that role. And we all know a dps or 2 out there that suffer from "marauder sickness", which is a globally recognized medical condition that compels you to force leap into a mob before the tank finishes typing "does anyone NOT know this figh ...OMG WTFQWE^Y%&UI".

 

One day I will learn to tank though .... until then I will keep roaming the servers as a pug healer. haha

 

Peace guys!

[venomlash]

If the tank is really bad it's sometimes easier to kill or cc mobs that go for you as a healer then to heal yourself while waiting for DPS and tank to get to them.

 

Word that. When I've got a strong or standard on me while healing, I usually make sure the tank is decently healthy and then full-on balls-to-the-wall DPS the add that's hitting me. If I'm feeling harried I might try to kite/push him over towards a DPS, but if you want something done right...

[BobFredJohn]

As I have always believed the issue is with how obvious the roles are, ill explain:

 

when you have a good tank, everything goes smoothly and the mission seems easy, as such nobody really notices. When you have a bad tank the mission is so much more difficult and the healer is having to carry everything (hard to do while trying to manage resource).

 

As such most dps cant really tell the difference between a good and bad tank (unless they have tanked themselves which, from what I have seen, I think most don't tank). So when it all goes to pot and there are multiple wipes (due to the tanking) people blame the healer as they don't see where the real issue is.

 

IMO healing is 1 of the easiest roles and even a bad player can pull it off by reading afew tool-tips. The only times I have ever got annoyed with healers is the ones who don't heal at all and when asked say something like "im dps, I just went healer to get faster queue pop". Those certainly deserve a kick.

Edited September 4, 2014 by BobFredJohn

[Ruskaeth]

Tsk tsk tsk. Good dpses make a world of difference too. People don't really understand it, but the better your dpsers are, the easier everything is.

[DalekTheCat]

I am a healer and I like flashpoints. I even like group finder to an extent, as it has brought me much entertainment.

 

I don't know what is going on lately (probably people doing things for conquest) but I haven't had a good tank in two weeks. The selection ranges from "passable because I'm nightmare-geared and can heal through your stupid" to "holy poop are you serious I swear on me mum I will votekick you and break out Kaliyo, just watch me".

 

Within this selection I see two major types: tanks who know they are tanks ("I should be pulling! Yay, I pulled!") but have no concept of threat or what their abilities do (like the jugg who only attempted to keep threat by using taunts on cooldown, or the sin who did... well I have no idea but he opened every pull with Force Wave or whatever it's called which sent our marauder over the railing more than once while leaping after a pushed target), and tanks who picked their specialization 45 levels ago but still do not know what a tank is. They stand around, waiting for other people to pull, and then spam basic attacks which build zero threat.

 

Yesterday I was in Manaan in a group with two "tanks", and I still managed to draw all the aggro. How? How is it even remotely mathematically possible for a healer to out-threat TWO tanks and a decent sniper? The mind boggles. If I say anything like, "Hey, if you want to tank that would be cool, I won't be inconvenienced," I get a lecture about how tactical flashpoints don't need a tank. Which is true, but if you have one, why not make use of it? Everything would go so much smoother.

 

I'm not sure what my point here is. Maybe I just want to find a good tank and cling to her like a liferaft.

 

I'LL NEVER LET YOU GO, GOODTANK!!!

[Dark_Mithrandir]

 

You can now bring even 6 healers there if you want as the DPS check is non existant (you can safely 2-3man cores to be fair) . But the outgoing damage is interesting. Also last phase of Brontes is still interesting. And 16-man Corruptor Zero can be interesting But it's more about scaling to 16-man that is not quite right and most players not being used to 16-man NiM (I am surely not used to it) then a challenge itself. Current buffed Council NiM is completely different beast then all those fights.

 

Bringing 5+ healers to Operator IX 16NiM is.... disapointing, ***, that was mean to be done with kell dragon gear i've my pride (needing moar healers in df/dm gear is .......)

 

Last brontes phase is NOT hard to heal anymore. This phase now is only about raid awareness and deeps (thx to the ****** nightmare buff nerf). Dont let spheres go 20 stacks and know when y've to take a sphere. (Good tanks help a lot and having deeps with some int is a great help too). Not even the best healer in the world will be able to keep a bad group in that phase.

With a good group and you can solo heal it (less stacks, faster dead brontes, less healing needed).

 

CZ NiM 16 , it's just a lag party, engine cant hold it ahahaha.

 

 

 

Only 2-3 places there are hard to heal - Thrasher has his crazy spikes and then it's warlords and maybe some combinations of droids in Olok the Shadow. On other bosses healers are mostly falling asleep.

 

 

Titan 6 burn phase is fun to heal

Trasher is fun to heal

Olok not that hard, some spikes there and there

Cartel Warlords fun to heal

Styrak is not that hard but is ok

 

Doing that stuff with df/dm gear ofc seems "easy" but with underworld and kell dragon that was insane fun.

[AAAAzrael]

Tsk tsk tsk. Good dpses make a world of difference too. People don't really understand it, but the better your dpsers are, the easier everything is.

 

Exactly!

[Eagelfighter]

i Went on my healer in the new fp lv 55 maanaan or how it spells with 3 dps:er and that was really Hard to keep them up and i am gearing up atm but no one had to die lol:cool:

[AAAAzrael]

Bringing 5+ healers to Operator IX 16NiM is.... disapointing, ***, that was mean to be done with kell dragon gear i've my pride (needing moar healers in df/dm gear is .......)

 

Healing in 16-man is completely different beast and for mainly 8-man guilds it's natural to make more mistakes. Also 5 healers is natural composition for me for hard content in 16-man. DPS checks are usually nowhere near what they are in 8-man anyway. But maybe I just have bad experience, it's just in my experience extremely competent raiders who clear buffed NiM content at gear level in 8-man become headless chickens in 16-man for some reasons ( I guess very few have PC's who can really handle 16-man).

 

Last brontes phase is NOT hard to heal anymore. This phase now is only about raid awareness and deeps (thx to the ****** nightmare buff nerf). Dont let spheres go 20 stacks and know when y've to take a sphere. (Good tanks help a lot and having deeps with some int is a great help too). Not even the best healer in the world will be able to keep a bad group in that phase.

With a good group and you can solo heal it (less stacks, faster dead brontes, less healing needed).

 

Original kill group I had for that for kill with buff probably wouldn't need much healing but not being that practised at this any more, bringing new people through it - there is a lot of healing going on. Especially during the shield no. 2 when usually everyone is very low and needs to be healed up to full immediately.

 

CZ NiM 16 , it's just a lag party, engine cant hold it ahahaha.

 

Yeah it simply sucks, even the sound doesn't work properly.

 

 

 

Olok not that hard, some spikes there and there

 

I found that there can be gigantic spikes on the tanks. When fighting the droids. Maybe it's gear optimised for DP NiM, but I did it recently as a tank and damage from the artillery droids is still nuts.

[Dark_Mithrandir]

It's true some 16m NiM content is easier with more than 4 healers bc deeps check is non-existent in somefights while dmg is high. I just wanted to say that needing more healers when everyone is 3+ lvl tiers above in gear mmmm that is doing more about not doing things right.

 

Brontes stuff is as you said, bad team needs more heals, if they need loooots of heals then the healers are actually carrying the group (or trying).

 

Yeah i remember olok spikes. Well thats the only thing thats dangerous in that fight. Fight is still quite easy tho. Knowing exactly the time when to pop a a defensive cd was key a long time ago while nowadays thx to gear is not that important.

[AAAAzrael]

Yeah i remember olok spikes. Well thats the only thing thats dangerous in that fight. Fight is still quite easy tho. Knowing exactly the time when to pop a a defensive cd was key a long time ago while nowadays thx to gear is not that important.

 

Yeah of course. It's one of the easiest fights, but extremely boring due to it's length. Still I remembered the spikes without the gear and I was surprised to see them now and it requires actively using cooldowns before not after taking damage as the spikes are like - "bang you're almost dead, oh no, you're dead"

Well anyway there is at least some stuff in the game that good team can do and not fall asleep I suppose.

[Zoldrim]

Stop complaining about HM 55 fps , or fps in general , that content is soloable.

 

If you are a good player you can solo all the fps , 3 more people give you time to do your job, even if they are bad and are essentially just meat targets to buy you time.

[Elusive_Thing]

Stop complaining about HM 55 fps , or fps in general , that content is soloable.

 

If you are a good player you can solo all the fps , 3 more people give you time to do your job, even if they are bad and are essentially just meat targets to buy you time.

Not all players are good. Also, group finder daily rewards are decent and soloing that content requires gear, too. I fail to see how the complaint is not valid just because grossly overgeared people can solo the content.

Edited September 4, 2014 by Elusive_Thing

[AAAAzrael]

Ask not what others can do better, ask what you yourself can do better in the game Usually helps.

[SkyLordJaden]

In my entire career as a tank and dps, cant include heals on this, I have kicked probably three healers. 1 was a merc ekth no cylinder active, outputting zero heals, another was a sorc healer on a 55hm czerka that wiped the group and then proceeded to blame me, even one of the dps was like seriously???. I feel like there is a third I dont remember though. The point is that most healers are good and I am extremely overgeared for tanking and pretty skilled at it, tanking in my guild for ops , and I don't eat too much damage. But even when im queued as damage I dont kick healers

[Marb]

Tsk tsk tsk. Good dpses make a world of difference too. People don't really understand it, but the better your dpsers are, the easier everything is.

 

Seriously this. Standard kill orders (weakest adds first) is a holy rule for small team content in swtor. It's just as important as healers healing and tanks grabbing agro on the big bads.

 

Dps tunnelling a gold while 4 normals are shooting the healer <Dps who blame the tank for this scenario are just lazy or uninformed. Yes, solid tanks will grab and hold everything on most pulls, but it's not something that should be expected of new tanks (i.e. most tanks who queue for hm fp's). If a tank is rounding up and holding the strongest mobs in each pull they are technically doing all they are required to do, anything else is above and beyond what is required for freaking flashpoints.

Edited September 5, 2014 by Marb