Darkness Tanking Compendium

[Kjempebikkja]

Hi!

 

How good is the relic Experimental Shield Overcharger - 395 absorb rating proc on shield, 6sec dura 20 sec cd? Will the absorb rating be a waste if you have 50% absorb before the proc since the diminishing returs is at 50%?

[Talon_Starfire]

How is the out of stealth Spike at PvE Endgame?

Thanks

[theonepanda]

I quote last reply, since the only viable Enhancement is Defense+Shield, we end up with tons of Shield and very few Absorption. I guess there is not much we can do about that, except asking devs for Defense+Absorption Enhancements...

 

 

Talking armor, do you always use the high Endurance, low Willpower one, or is it better to mix in some armor with more willpower (e.g., to have more threat or damage)? Maybe this is a stupid question but I couldn't fin the answer.

 

I like to use resolve instead of force wielder. However, the answer will really depend on the weaknesses in your raid. If your raid's dps is low, get resolve. If you're dying a lot, get force wielder.

 

However I haven't done NM raids, having no time at all to devote to this game (i've logged on...once in the past 2 weeks lol, and that was on my operative >.>).

 

I'll noted in the first post that darkness/madness is no longer viable. I will remove it now that the patch is released.

[Kraivon]

I don't understand why you would max absorb before shield. It makes more sense to me to be shielding attacks more often versus mitigating slightly more damage less often.

 

Therefore, I put shield augments in all my exceptionally crafted rakata gear.

 

Can I get some criticism on this?

Edited February 19, 2012 by Kraivon

[Whatbroke]

 

• 1000 Rating - 45.65% Mitigation. 400 Defense. 250 Shield. 350 Absorb. 37.22 Hit Chance.
  
• 1100 Rating - 47.37% Mitigation. 400 Defense. 300 Shield. 400 Absorb. 35.61 Hit Chance.
  
• 1200 Rating - 49.01% Mitigation. 400 Defense. 350 Shield. 450 Absorb. 34.09 Hit Chance.
  

 

 

Just out of interest is everyone else having problems trying to get anywhere near these recommended stats? Seems to be hard to not have Accuracy and still have a decent amount of absorb.

 

Yea I find these stats kind of confusing myself. Not because of accuracy or anything like that, but because of the mitigation numbers.

 

I may not be in full Rakata... but I do have Rakata Belt, Bracers, and Legs, as well as a Chest with a 140 Rating Armoring mod. With this gear my armor rating is 6837, which equates to 38.77% damage reduction. Add the 4% increase I'm getting from 4set and talents...and that leaves me with 42.77% mitigation.

 

With all that gear I have (without stim) 417 Defense rating, 459 Shield Rating, and 333 Absorption rating....for a total of 1209.

 

So my question is, how can I have 1205 total rating and only 42.77% Mitigation...as opposed to the 49.01% I'm apparently supposed to have at this point?

Edited February 20, 2012 by Whatbroke

[GFWarper]

Mitigation in quote doesn't account armor damage reduction, but only effects of defense and shielding.

[matthewcreech]

I don't understand why you would max absorb before shield. It makes more sense to me to be shielding attacks more often versus mitigating slightly more damage less often.

 

Therefore, I put shield augments in all my exceptionally crafted rakata gear.

 

Can I get some criticism on this?

If the gains from shield rating were equal or better than absorb rating this would be true, however, when you run the numbers, Absorb % and Shield % are roughly equivalent in regards to mitigation, but Absorb rating yields more value per point than shield rating. Also, we begin with higher shield chance so stacking shield rating is less critical.

 

Shield rating / 0.32

Absorb rating / 0.18

[Evel]

Just out of interest is everyone else having problems trying to get anywhere near these recommended stats? Seems to be hard to not have Accuracy and still have a decent amount of absorb.

 

Those values are based on number pure numbering crunching using an optimization program like Solver in Excel (or MATLAB). Based on current itemization it is likely impossible to actually match the numbers posted in the original thread. What is more important to take from it (and it is better investigated on sithwarrior.com) is that Defense loses value around 350-450 (depending on your set bonus) and that Shield/Absorb becomes more valuable.

 

 

Yea I find these stats kind of confusing myself. Not because of accuracy or anything like that, but because of the mitigation numbers.

 

I may not be in full Rakata... but I do have Rakata Belt, Bracers, and Legs, as well as a Chest with a 140 Rating Armoring mod. With this gear my armor rating is 6837, which equates to 38.77% damage reduction. Add the 4% increase I'm getting from 4set and talents...and that leaves me with 42.77% mitigation.

 

With all that gear I have (without stim) 417 Defense rating, 459 Shield Rating, and 333 Absorption rating....for a total of 1209.

 

So my question is, how can I have 1205 total rating and only 42.77% Mitigation...as opposed to the 49.01% I'm apparently supposed to have at this point?

 

The most obvious answer is that your stats do not match what is being presented. As I said above, Defense actually loses value between 350-450 and Shield/Absorb gain value. So just because you have a "rating" of 1209 doesn't mean your stats are optimal. You can see a graph on how the individual stats are distributed and what I mean by Defense losing value:

 

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Sith-Assassin-Jedi-Shadow-Tanking-Compendium?pid=13229#pid13229

Edited February 20, 2012 by Evel

[Whatbroke]

Those values are based on number pure numbering crunching using an optimization program like Solver in Excel (or MATLAB). Based on current itemization it is likely impossible to actually match the numbers posted in the original thread. What is more important to take from it (and it is better investigated on sithwarrior.com) is that Defense loses value around 350-450 (depending on your set bonus) and that Shield/Absorb becomes more valuable.

 

The most obvious answer is that your stats do not match what is being presented. As I said above, Defense actually loses value between 350-450 and Shield/Absorb gain value. So just because you have a "rating" of 1209 doesn't mean your stats are optimal. You can see a graph on how the individual stats are distributed and what I mean by Defense losing value:

 

http://sithwarrior.com/forums/Thread-Sith-Assassin-Jedi-Shadow-Tanking-Compendium?pid=13229#pid13229

 

Overkill much? That's a fairly long post for trying to say one simple thing: What I am trying to figure out isn't important...what is important, is that I realize I have too much Defense Rating.

 

 

Mitigation in quote doesn't account armor damage reduction, but only effects of defense and shielding.

 

This makes the most sense. I just can't seem to figure out (mathematically) how the "effect(s) of defense and shielding" are calculated in such a way as to arrive at those mitigation values.

[OniHouse]

This makes the most sense. I just can't seem to figure out (mathematically) how the "effect(s) of defense and shielding" are calculated in such a way as to arrive at those mitigation values.

 

I think it works like this:

 

Imagine your stats are:

 

Def = 30%

Shield = 57% (with DW)

Absorb = 50%

 

Now imagine this scenario happens:

 

You get 10 hits that would each hit for 10k(this is after your armor reduction) if you don't mitigate them, which results in 100k total potential damage(unless unmitigated hits can crit us?).

 

3 miss due to 30% def = 30k mitigated

 

>> Remember SWTOR works with an annoying 2 roll system instead of a 1 roll for all system like WoW so we cant be CTC(Combat Table Coverage) Capped, which is most likely another reason why Absorb is more valuable then Shield and we take considerable more damage due to it. <<

 

7 are left but due to 57% shield chance:

 

7x0.57=4(rounded up from 3.99) so you shield 4 hits for 50% of the damage = 20k mitigated, 20k damage taken.

 

3 hits are left that fully hit you for 10k each, 30k damage taken.

 

So you mitigated 50k and you took 50k damage of a total 100k potential damage.

 

50k of 100k = 50%

 

So you have a mitigation of 50% and a hit chance of 3 out of 10 = 30%

 

Granted this assumes that chance isn't a ***** and you mitigate the exact chance you have to mitigate something.

 

Also this doesn't seem to take into account the 5% miss chance from the debuff and whatever the base chance is for a boss to miss you(panda's calculations might do that or might not)

 

PS: I wonder if [Experimental Shield Overcharger] at all reduces the value of Absorb rating due to its 395 absorb rating extra for 6 seconds with a 20 sec ICD and how useful this relic actually is compared to others. Also anyone know if the icd starts when you gain the effect or when it expires? The text states: "can only occur once every 20 seconds" which leads me to believe it starts when you gain it as that is when it "occurs".

 

PS 2: Would still love a confirmation if you can or can not get a prefix(veracity etc) before [Columi Survivor's Motivator(implant)] through RE'ing it with Biochem(Torhead seems to think you can... but it's not 100% reliable imo). If not I assume that makes: [Veracity Nano-Optic Resistance Implant(Mastercraft)] BiS?

Edited February 20, 2012 by OniHouse

[Evel]

Overkill much? That's a fairly long post for trying to say one simple thing: What I am trying to figure out isn't important...what is important, is that I realize I have too much Defense Rating. .

 

Well if you are simply one of those people that don't want to know WHY then /shrug. If you don't like my post - don't read them.

Edited February 21, 2012 by Evel

[Maestrodomus]

I was trying to keep an eye out for that passive shield relic proc, but I didn't notice it. Does an icon come up or do we turn yellow for a second like with the active defensive relic? Or is it just a typical shield animation in which case I'll never be able to tell.

[joesarno]

I spent my first tow points before finding this guide, is there a way to reset them and start over? If so where do I go, I am on Kaas.

Thanks

[OniHouse]

I spent my first tow points before finding this guide, is there a way to reset them and start over? If so where do I go, I am on Kaas.

Thanks

 

Yes you can go to a skill mentor in Kaas City(near all the vendors iirc) or on the fleet in the combat training section.

[ydenneksirhc]

Brilliant guide, love the calculations you did for the absorb and defense rating and giving insights on the cap. Really well appreciated. Cheers

[Spoonwithyou]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrokrskMZhZf0cMb.1

 

Good Damage and Burst your missing nothing other then WITHER

[OniHouse]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#200rcrokrskMZhZf0cMb.1

 

Good Damage and Burst your missing nothing other then WITHER

 

And Harnessed Darkness*

 

I would highly suggest not taking that build for several reasons:

 

Lets start with the Deception tree:

 

3/3 Duplicity: When are you planning to use maul while tanking? You need to be behind the target to be able to use maul, which you won't be as tank.

 

Darkness tree:

 

2/3 nerve wracking: The target needs to be controlled by spike/electrocute so it needs to either be on the ground or stunned depending on which skill you used, good luck doing this to bosses and if you plan to raid 16m any of the trash.(which makes it a waste of 2 points)

 

0/2 Harnessed Darkness: Means you are throwing away a quite frequent heal of 3% total hp per tick of force lightning(ticks 4 times I think) so that's 12% health. I would highly suggest not lacking this heal.

 

0/1 Wither: No Wither means the boss will hit you 5% more of the time which means you take considerable more damage, Wither gives a stack of Harnessed Darkness(see above) which will result in you healing for less as well without the ability and to top it all off you will lack severe AoE threat without Wither.

 

0/3 Mounting darkness: Results in considerable less threat(especially AoE threat) as it severely increases the damage done by 2 of your primary abilities, not recommended to go without.

 

Madness tree:

 

Looks fine BUT you won't have 2 points for 2/2 claws of decay due to earlier mentioned reasons and if you did I would probably stick them in 1/1 Death field + 1/2 in fanaticism.

 

All in all I wouldn't go with this build for PvE tanking, which is what is being discussed in this topic.

[Spoonwithyou]

My Bad This is For PVP

 

 

 

 

And Harnessed Darkness*

 

I would highly suggest not taking that build for several reasons:

 

Lets start with the Deception tree:

 

3/3 Duplicity: When are you planning to use maul while tanking? You need to be behind the target to be able to use maul, which you won't be as tank.

 

Darkness tree:

 

2/3 nerve wracking: The target needs to be controlled by spike/electrocute so it needs to either be on the ground or stunned depending on which skill you used, good luck doing this to bosses and if you plan to raid 16m any of the trash.(which makes it a waste of 2 points)

 

0/2 Harnessed Darkness: Means you are throwing away a quite frequent heal of 3% total hp per tick of force lightning(ticks 4 times I think) so that's 12% health. I would highly suggest not lacking this heal.

 

0/1 Wither: No Wither means the boss will hit you 5% more of the time which means you take considerable more damage, Wither gives a stack of Harnessed Darkness(see above) which will result in you healing for less as well without the ability and to top it all off you will lack severe AoE threat without Wither.

 

0/3 Mounting darkness: Results in considerable less threat(especially AoE threat) as it severely increases the damage done by 2 of your primary abilities, not recommended to go without.

 

Madness tree:

 

Looks fine BUT you won't have 2 points for 2/2 claws of decay due to earlier mentioned reasons and if you did I would probably stick them in 1/1 Death field + 1/2 in fanaticism.

 

All in all I wouldn't go with this build for PvE tanking, which is what is being discussed in this topic.

[ccagdas]

good post

[Maestrodomus]

This thread has pretty much died since our buff. How about a good list of boss abilities that are Force/Tech for purposes of Force Shroud and the remaining for deflection and defense relic. Some are obvious, and some I'm not so sure about.

 

Karagga's Palace

 

Bonethrasher: His swipes are listed force/tech. I always start the fight, and call everyone, even healers, to go all out while I sit there and shroud his attacks.

 

Jarg and Sorno: Jarg's fire thingy is killer and a tech ability. There's no cast bar but he seems to grapple someone befoire it. Sorno isn't so bad.

 

Foreman: I haven't seen anything I can shroud in this fight. Basically you need to alternate your Deflection every other frenzy and a defense relic/adrenal/heals for the inbetweens.

 

Fabricator: I believe all the firing mechanisms are shroudable but I have been one shot by the ice ones when I swear I was shrouded. He also does a quick double fist pound move that is shroudable although it has no cast bar and I haven't taken the time to predict when it's coming.

 

Karagga: This fight is pretty cake, but I think his laser is shroudable. Mostly just rotating defensive stuff to stay alive. The fire pits are not shroudable.

 

Eternity Vault

 

Annihilator Droid: You can shroud the initial hit of Cannondale (glowing arm), but I'm not sure about the 3 ticks from the dot afterward. I think I've seen it resist. Salvo and the target on the floor phase are not shroudable, that's deflection time.

 

Gharj: Another pretty simple fight. His pounce is shroudable but there's little benefit to it. Even if you shroud the island to island pounce you still get hit with the resulting stun.

 

Pylon: N/A but interrupt that reflective shield!

 

Infernal Council: N/A but you should take the champion if you're on 16 HM.

 

Soa: He does pretty much exclusive force abilities but after the first phase you should save them to blow up your lightning ball or eat a pylon. Makes the fight tougher for us because Dark Ward and Deflection are pretty worthless. Bring some armor adrenals if you're having trouble.

 

Please comment and add more! This is just what I've notived from 16HM. Some of these things are non issues in 8HM (i.e. Canondale).

Edited March 14, 2012 by Maestrodomus

[Pernblad]

"Fabricator: I believe all the firing mechanisms are shroudable but I have been one shot by the ice ones when I swear I was shrouded. He also does a quick double fist pound move that is shroudable although it has no cast bar and I haven't taken the time to predict when it's coming."

 

 

You actually dont need to shroud them, they are avoidable just by standing on the yellow lines (or behind) on the ground

[Maestrodomus]

Lol obviously you can avoid it. I figured everyone would know that and assume everyone else does too. But if he starts moving around (which can happen when even you're standing still) or some idiot taunts him, you can shroud and run across the box to drag him back in place without worrying.

[novakheng]

I've always been using Force Shroud when Karagga throws the fire.. Won't using it just resist the incoming damage of the fire?

[eriknimblehands]

Still leveling my darkness assassin, just hit 41 so I've been having a lof of un with wither, but alot of tankassibs in my guild are telling me to go 30/0/11 to get death field over wither. Are they right? Seems like wither is better than death field, but I'm not a very experienced tank. BTW I'm never going to PVP, and I can't do OPs until I get a better PC, so I only do solo/heroics/FPs.

[Kautious]

I'm kinda confused and need some of you guys' opinions on my tanking stats..

 

I've had very opposing opinions about my current stats..

 

as of now, my stats are:

hp: close to 20k with stim

def: 27.7%

shield: 58ish % with dark ward (2 piece bonus from pve set)

absorb 48ish %

 

I've been told that the absorb should be 30ish % and mine is way too high..

If that is the case, should I swap all my absorb augments to what? def?

 

If I get 30ish % absorb, won't my hp be more spiky?