why is the SWTOR community so against "pay to win"

[Daekarus]

Doing Free to Play Wrong - How Bad Monetization Hurts F2P Games:

 

If you have a question on a game topic, Extra Credits has probably already done an episode on it.

[Khevar]

GTN is massively overpriced, a single purple 55 mod is 4.5 mil.

You're talking about 180-rated gear. The second best gear currently available. Gear that is obtained by playing endgame PvE operations.

 

And just what do you think would happen to the number of people that run ops, if that gear were sold directly in the Cartel Market? In my experience, the quantity would drastically reduce.

 

Your first post was Dec 2013, so I'm guessing you weren't around for patch 1.5. Around that time, three things happened:

 

1. The best gear (150-rating) was craftable.

2. The "learn other players schematics" trick was made public here in the forums.

3. The materials required (Molecular Stabilizers) were gotten from breaking down PvP gear.

 

Suddenly, there was an explosion of "Best in Slot" gear on the GTN for super cheap. And ops groups were suddenly harder to form. Why worry about finding a good group when a few dailies would get you top level gear? Heck, at that time everyone got a free set of Tionese shells for the set bonus, too.

 

The reduced number of groups forming persisted until 2.0 dropped, bringing a new tier, and making the materials difficult to obtain. It's been SIGNIFICANTLY easier to find groups from that point forward.

 

Since you're complaining about high-level raid gear being too expensive, it sounds like you can't run ops yourself. Perhaps you don't like people, and hate running with groups. Perhaps you're a poor player and couldn't hack the operation anyway. Perhaps you're on a dead server with no other players.

 

But the fact of the matter is, selling 180-gear directly on the CM would have a deleterious effect for those of us that LIKE ops. For better or for worse, the gear "carrot-on-a-stick" drives enough players that if you removed it, fewer groups would form.

 

If you want 180 gear, than you either need to become a better player, or you need to find better friends, or you need to get better at making credits to afford those millions on the GTN.

[CyberneticDucks]

What you talking about is convience, totally different to P2W. I'll say this, maybe they could add more substantial perks so for that I could see your point. However, I must reterate that P2W is not natrual for an MMO. Income is generated by currency yes but also with subscriptions transfers etc.

 

The pay to win aspect of many MMO's is not exclusive to their profits. It is certainly a factor, but not the primary source of income.

 

an expansion of the character and legacy perks, account-wide ones too would be nice. yeah, i guess i'll drift away from P2W and focus any kind of modifications to making paying money more convenient.

[CyberneticDucks]

You're talking about 180-rated gear. The second best gear currently available. Gear that is obtained by playing endgame PvE operations.

 

And just what do you think would happen to the number of people that run ops, if that gear were sold directly in the Cartel Market? In my experience, the quantity would drastically reduce.

 

Your first post was Dec 2013, so I'm guessing you weren't around for patch 1.5. Around that time, three things happened:

 

1. The best gear (150-rating) was craftable.

2. The "learn other players schematics" trick was made public here in the forums.

3. The materials required (Molecular Stabilizers) were gotten from breaking down PvP gear.

 

Suddenly, there was an explosion of "Best in Slot" gear on the GTN for super cheap. And ops groups were suddenly harder to form. Why worry about finding a good group when a few dailies would get you top level gear? Heck, at that time everyone got a free set of Tionese shells for the set bonus, too.

 

The reduced number of groups forming persisted until 2.0 dropped, bringing a new tier, and making the materials difficult to obtain. It's been SIGNIFICANTLY easier to find groups from that point forward.

 

Since you're complaining about high-level raid gear being too expensive, it sounds like you can't run ops yourself. Perhaps you don't like people, and hate running with groups. Perhaps you're a poor player and couldn't hack the operation anyway. Perhaps you're on a dead server with no other players.

 

But the fact of the matter is, selling 180-gear directly on the CM would have a deleterious effect for those of us that LIKE ops. For better or for worse, the gear "carrot-on-a-stick" drives enough players that if you removed it, fewer groups would form.

 

If you want 180 gear, than you either need to become a better player, or you need to find better friends, or you need to get better at making credits to afford those millions on the GTN.

 

i've tried doing an op back before the SM groupfinder thing and never managed to find a group. even so most groups did HM and NiM so it was pretty hard.

 

i am upset with the prices for GTN, but i certainly understand why they are like that: hard to get craft mats, hard to get up cybertech to qualify to make it in the first place, and hard to find the best stuff "in the wild".

[TheNahash]

i've tried doing an op back before the SM groupfinder thing and never managed to find a group. even so most groups did HM and NiM so it was pretty hard.

 

i am upset with the prices for GTN, but i certainly understand why they are like that: hard to get craft mats, hard to get up cybertech to qualify to make it in the first place, and hard to find the best stuff "in the wild".

 

I've never heard anyone - and I mean anyone - ever say that it's hard to get cybertech to 450 before.

You must be doing something wrong, because I honestly cannot see how sending your companion to craft some green gear with the mats you've already gathered or have bought from the GTN is in any way "hard".

[Kalfear]

I've never heard anyone - and I mean anyone - ever say that it's hard to get cybertech to 450 before.

You must be doing something wrong, because I honestly cannot see how sending your companion to craft some green gear with the mats you've already gathered or have bought from the GTN is in any way "hard".

 

LOL no crafting skill is hard to get to 450.

In fact one could say they are far to easy to max out

 

but get use to hearing these claims as its been working

 

EA is dumbing down Makeb because people whined it was to tough for them and mob density was to thick

Leveling in SW:TOR has always been insanely easy and fast but some whined and leveling got sped up even more to the point that they may as well sell pre made 55s cause they already have fresh 55s who have no clue how to play their classes.

 

Truth is the genre as a whole has been listening and reacting to the "dumb it down crowd" so its become pretty common place in MMORPGs to read people making the most outlandish claims that something is to difficult.

 

Other day I read here (from someone else) about how SW:TOR is a very hard and difficult game to master and requires harsh dedication of time and energy to achieve a lvl 55 character. Person had said it before when complaining about grinding and difficulty curve so wasn't a trolling job (even though it read as one).

 

There is a segment of the playerbase who consider any challenge to be unreasonable and unacceptable and they want everything handed to them with out question.

 

Soon you will see them asking to be able to buy achievement (like kill 3000 non player characters on Voss) through the cartel market because playing the game to earn the achievement is just unacceptable to them.

[Fantazm]

Makeb wasn't tough it was just annoying.

[TravelersWay]

But the fact of the matter is, selling 180-gear directly on the CM would have a deleterious effect for those of us that LIKE ops.

 

If you like Ops, then why would you stop doing Ops regardless of where the rewards can be obtained?

[Khevar]

If you like Ops, then why would you stop doing Ops regardless of where the rewards can be obtained?

You skimmed my post, that one sentence caught your eye, and you stopped reading.

 

Here's my sentence immediately following the one you quoted, which directly answers your question:

For better or for worse, the gear "carrot-on-a-stick" drives enough players that if you removed it, fewer groups would form.

But just in case, let me break it down for you:

 

1. I personally cannot run an operation solo.

2. Therefore, I need more people to run an operation.

3. The more people that WANT to run operations, the more likely I am to get a group.

4. Some people are lured by the draw of loot drops to keep running an operation over and over again.

5. If you make top-level gear easily accessible, some players would run fewer operations.

6. Therefore, fewer operations groups would form.

 

Do you follow?

 

Now, since you skimmed my post, you probably missed my anecdote about patch 1.5, where I experienced this chain of events. This isn't just a theory -- it actually happened.

 

So now that I've spelled out the basis behind my statement, I will reiterate it:

But the fact of the matter is, selling 180-gear directly on the CM would have a deleterious effect for those of us that LIKE ops. For better or for worse, the gear "carrot-on-a-stick" drives enough players that if you removed it, fewer groups would form.

[Toweleeeie]

The problem I have with it is ****** players in good gear. The game is not just about stats, you need to know how to play your class and role.

[TravelersWay]

You skimmed my post, that one sentence caught your eye, and you stopped reading.

 

Here's my sentence immediately following the one you quoted, which directly answers your question:

 

But just in case, let me break it down for you:

 

1. I personally cannot run an operation solo.

2. Therefore, I need more people to run an operation.

3. The more people that WANT to run operations, the more likely I am to get a group.

4. Some people are lured by the draw of loot drops to keep running an operation over and over again.

5. If you make top-level gear easily accessible, some players would run fewer operations.

6. Therefore, fewer operations groups would form.

 

Do you follow?

 

Now, since you skimmed my post, you probably missed my anecdote about patch 1.5, where I experienced this chain of events. This isn't just a theory -- it actually happened.

 

So now that I've spelled out the basis behind my statement, I will reiterate it:

 

I didn't skim it. I know precisely what you were saying.

 

Again, the question stands.

 

If people enjoy playing a particular piece of content (presumably because it is fun), then why would they stop playing that particular piece of content, regardless of what the rewards are or where else they can be obtained from.

 

For example, I enjoy playing Flashpoints. I replay all flashpoints on all my characters - even those who vastly outlevel the content. I play on alts who are already in gear that is better than what drops in said flashpoints. I do it because it is fun. I do with in groups with people who think the same way.

 

Seems to me, those who would stop playing content is not interested in the content but simply the treadmill. The treadmill is still there, regardless of where the rewards can be obtained, so why stop running the treadmill if that's what one enjoys? If it's only the reward that is interesting, then there's no point in making varying or in depth content. The money and time could be spent making shinier carrots at the end of the treadmill.

Edited August 19, 2014 by TravelersWay

[DataBeaver]

If people enjoy playing a particular piece of content (presumably because it is fun), then why would they stop playing that particular piece of content, regardless of what the rewards are or where else they can be obtained from.

Let's put it this way. At the moment queueing for a flashpoint as a DPS might take 30 minutes. If 75% of the popupation stops playing flashpoints because they can get the rewards easier elsewhere, flashpoint queues for the remaining 25% will take 2 hours. See the problem yet?

[Oneirophrenia]

Why is P2W bad? Because gaming addiction is real and there are also lots of people who are simply "terribad" with their finances. Spending thousand of dollars on a virtual game that will eventually shut down some day when they are effectively living paycheck to paycheck. Even games (or any form of entertainment) should some semblance of social responsbility. If you are a bar or liquor store owner, would you really sell alcohol to a known drunk who stumbles into your door 4-5 days a week?

 

Sometimes people just don't know how to control themselves so the more limited their avenue of dysfunction becomes, the better.

Edited August 19, 2014 by Oneirophrenia

[Khevar]

I didn't skim it. I know precisely what you were saying.

 

Again, the question stands.

If the question stands, than you DON'T know what I was saying. Please read my posts again.

 

You asked me why I would stop running ops. I WOULDN'T. But there are more people than me that play the game and I can't run ops without others.

Seems to me, those who would stop playing content is not interested in the content but simply the treadmill.

So? Is your goal to make these people stop playing?

 

1. Some players are primarily interested in the content.

2. Some players are primarily interested in gear drops.

3. Some players are interested in both.

 

I run operations with all three types. Selling 180-rated gear would reduce the pool of players interested in running Operations. It's that simple.

 

Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

Edited August 19, 2014 by Khevar

[TravelersWay]

Let's put it this way. At the moment queueing for a flashpoint as a DPS might take 30 minutes. If 75% of the popupation stops playing flashpoints because they can get the rewards easier elsewhere, flashpoint queues for the remaining 25% will take 2 hours. See the problem yet?

 

Yes. I am attempting to get to the underlying psychology of what causes the problem. In the end, I think if people look a little deeper than "it's P2W!!!!", they might find that their reasons for objecting to something (or thinking that they need to play something in a particular way) is not really valid.

 

If the question stands, than you DON'T know what I was saying. Please read my posts again.

 

You asked me why I would stop running ops. I WOULDN'T. But there are more people than me that play the game and I can't run ops without others.

Again, I do know what you are saying and the problems you have encountered. The questions being asked aren't being directed at you specifically but at the general "you" of people who think things must be a certain way without putting any further thought into why it is that way and why there might be a different way to do it.

 

So? Is your goal to make these people stop playing?

No. My reasons are stated above.

 

1. Some players are primarily interested in the content.

2. Some players are primarily interested in gear drops.

3. Some players are interested in both.

And I find it an interesting study to get to the underlying psychology of that dichotomy and the possibility of exploring the median ground that would allow people to be satisfied with additional options of the loot chase. Ultimately, if one enjoys the content, then the reward is the content itself and the gear drops are secondary, thus making where the gear is acquired meaningless. If the gear is the primary goal of playing the content, then would it not be better suited for those players to have the gear attached to a piece of content that they particularly enjoy, if the current content is not satisfactory enough to be rewarding in and of its own right?

 

I run operations with all three types. Selling 180-rated gear would reduce the pool of players interested in running Operations. It's that simple.

 

Why is this so hard for you to grasp?

 

It's not hard to grasp at all. I grasp it quite well. I am simply attempting to get people to explore deeper into the psychology that causes it to occur. When that is understood, again, we might find that the problem is simply one of perception.

 

Why is P2W bad? Because gaming addiction is real and there are also lots of people who are simply "terribad" with their finances. Spending thousand of dollars on a virtual game that will eventually shut down some day when they are effectively living paycheck to paycheck. Even games (or any form of entertainment) should some semblance of social responsbility. If you are a bar or liquor store owner, would you really sell alcohol to a known drunk who stumbles into your door 4-5 days a week?

 

Sometimes people just don't know how to control themselves so the more limited their avenue of dysfunction becomes, the better.

 

I would have to disagree in part with some of your statements. Ultimately, the responsibility lies with the individual with the issue, and to a lesser extent, the immediate family of said person. However, this conversation is better suited to an entirely different forum.

Edited August 19, 2014 by TravelersWay

[Glower]

why is the SWTOR community so against "pay to win"

Because it's the cancer of the MMO world. Or just a legit cheats.

[Khevar]

Again, I do know what you are saying and the problems you have encountered. The questions being asked aren't being directed at you specifically but at the general "you" of people who think things must be a certain way without putting any further thought into why it is that way and why there might be a different way to do it.

Fair enough.

 

Let me ask you a few questions then.

 

Are you in favor of 180-rated gear being sold directly on the Cartel Market? If so, what would be the benefits to the player? What would be the benefit to Bioware? What are the downsides? Do you think my expectations about what would happen with operations raiding are unfounded?

[DataBeaver]

Yes. I am attempting to get to the underlying psychology of what causes the problem. In the end, I think if people look a little deeper than "it's P2W!!!!", they might find that their reasons for objecting to something (or thinking that they need to play something in a particular way) is not really valid.

Fair point. I like to study the psychology behind various online phenomena too, so I will divulge the results of my self-analysis.

 

In addition to the already mentioned reduction in group availability, the root cause for me is that I don't like being inferior to others. This manifests in at least two different ways. Firstly, I don't like being carried. There would undoubtedly be a number of players who continue to do ops even after acquiring 186 gear. If I'm put in a group with mostly 186 gear and have anything less than 180 myself, I feel like I'm not pulling my weight.

 

Secondly, even though I try to avoid direct confrontations, as in PvP, I often compare myself to my peers. This is more important the closer ties I have to the target; friends and guildmates are more important than some random stranger I got pugged with. Getting suddenly eclipsed by someone close to me causes an emotional shock that may take a while to recover from.

 

Obviously, these reasons are rather irrational and even selfish. But such is the nature of emotions.

[TravelersWay]

Are you in favor of 180-rated gear being sold directly on the Cartel Market? If so, what would be the benefits to the player? What would be the benefit to Bioware? What are the downsides? Do you think my expectations about what would happen with operations raiding are unfounded?

 

Well, I think we've treaded this ground previously in another thread, but to reiterate:

 

Personally speaking, I am in favor of a game offering every item (armor, weapon, pets, mounts, etc.) available in game not only for sale in a cash shop, but tradable between players and also available via vendors for in game currency.

 

The benefits of such would be that a player would then have his/her choice of how and when to acquire whatever items they want in the game: Playing "normally"; playing to acquire enough currency to buy from another player or from a vendor; or simply saving up enough to buy from the store.

 

The benefits to the game company is that there is another avenue of cash revenue from the whales, and the typical players who spend more reasonably and make judgements on the time it would take to acquire an item in game vs. the relevant cost in the cash shop.

 

Realistically speaking, it is obvious that the gaming community as a whole is not yet ready for such a concept as evidenced by debates similar to that in this thread and misconceptions the community tends to have in regards to things like grind, pay to win concepts, RNG, etc.

 

As I mentioned in the other thread, the ultimate reason for playing any game, and any particular piece of content in a game is because it is fun, enjoyable, and engaging, and thusly, worth doing over again. That is the reason why many people (such as myself), keep playing games for years, even though they are decades old and vastly outdated. There is still something about them that makes them worth going back to. Just this year, I have been doing YouTube videos playing some of my favorite games from back in the 80's and 90's, and am still having just as much fun doing that as I did when they were new and shiny.

 

The ultimate benefit for both the player and the gaming company is that if the rewards are more fulfilling than the content that awards them, then allowing players to purchase those rewards and skip the unfulfilling content will finally allow everyone to see what is the "Fun Factor" content, as players would then be free to play the content they enjoy the most without having to fetch after the bigger and better carrot. Games and content could then be designed with more and more of that type of content and thus games become more fun and more rewarding as a result.

[Khevar]

<snip for brevity>

Thanks for the comments, I think I follow.

 

There is a potential downside to offering end-game gear both in the cash shop AND as in-game rewards. All the company needs to do is increase the "grindy" portion of the in-game rewards to make the cash shop option more attractive, thereby increasing revenue.

 

There ARE games out there that offer a "pay-to-win" microtransaction approach. Whereby the cash spent is NOT for cosmetics, but in things that actually assist one in playing in the game. All the games like this that I know of are characterized by a rather unpleasant grind -- a much more significant grind than any in TOR.

 

The general gist of your viewpoint, as I understand it, is that people should be playing the game for the fun parts, not for the boring parts. The 64 million dollar question becomes:

Would putting end-game gear to the cash shop in TOR encourage EA to add more boring parts to make the cash shop option more attractive?

I believe the answer to this question is "Yes it would".

 

Another question along this lines is:

Is there a single PvE game that EVER put end-game gear in a cash shop that wasn't accompanied by an extensive grind?

If there is, I'd like to know what it is, because I've never seen one. Edited August 21, 2014 by Khevar

[LyraineAlei]

I wouldn't know about the whole community, but I personally don't like the pay-to-win system many new games use because then the game only focuses on the money part and everything else suffers, and then there is nothing for those who don't pay to do.

 

It for me is like when I'm playing my Pokemon games with the VS Seeker item to rebattle field trainers with my insanely overpowered level 80 Mons against the snooty lv 5 trainers. Crazy fun the first five times, but then I start to miss the challenge those trainers once gave me.

 

Yes, I am a subscriber who from time to time buys CC cards. I prefer the CM to be filled with cosmetics to make the paying part optional. As in I don't have to buy those cards to keep playing.

 

Now, I don't do much grouping. Why? I'm a terrible healer on my main, even at 55. And I don't want to feel guilty about it, because I can't keep my healing up with my heat value for my merc. Consequence? I don't have the gear mods passed 146/156 on a couple mods. And I'm okay because I made that choice and can still play the parts I like that do give me the challenge I enjoy.

 

Now, let's say those mods above mine are on the CM. I would feel pressured to do one of two things, spend the money for CC, or do badly on the group ops and hmfps because I am undergeared by the standards of what can be easily bought with CC.

 

And I don't like being pressured to buy things just to play at the same level for a challenge I can enjoy. I enjoy buying my subscription because I don't actually need to buy it.

 

Tl;dr -- I pay because it's an option. I am more willing to give them money because it is an option. And I play Pokemon.

 

EDIT: I am aware of the seemingly not required image the game gives in terms of the subscription stuff, because I know it is a ploy to get me to buy the subscription. But guess what? I am more willing to pay for that illusion.

Edited August 22, 2014 by LyraineAlei

[DataBeaver]

As I mentioned in the other thread, the ultimate reason for playing any game, and any particular piece of content in a game is because it is fun, enjoyable, and engaging, and thusly, worth doing over again. That is the reason why many people (such as myself), keep playing games for years, even though they are decades old and vastly outdated. There is still something about them that makes them worth going back to. Just this year, I have been doing YouTube videos playing some of my favorite games from back in the 80's and 90's, and am still having just as much fun doing that as I did when they were new and shiny.

But just how fun and enjoyable would the content be if you could gear yourself up to the max at the push of a button? Would you still do flashpoints if you had nothing more to gain from them?

 

In 2001 I played a lot of Diablo II. At one point I got my hands on a third-party character editor program. Besides giving my characters any unique item in the game, it also allowed me to design completely custom item. So I did the obvious thing and gave my character the most insanely powerful loadout possible, sporting some +240 to all skills (the highest normally reachable level is about 30). I then set out to the world, leaving a trail of destruction in my wake. Enemies fell before me like flies, and all the health buffs from my new gear made me nigh invulnerable. It was great fun... for all of about one hour. Then I got bored and deleted the edited character.

 

I'm driven in games largely by the search for unknown. It may be a storyline I haven't yet experienced, an environment I haven't yet seen, or a challence I haven't yet overcome. I repeat already known things mostly as a means to achieving something unknown. For example, currently one major motivator is the challenge provided by hardmode operations, so I run content which gives me ultimate commendations so that I can improve my gear and thus chances in beating the operations.

 

Once the outcome of an activity is no longer unknown, I easily become bored with it. In the Diablo II example above I didn't even need to kill every boss in the game. I already knew I could beat them all. Boring. Sometimes it's enough to have a step-by-step plan by which I can achieve a certain outcome with 100% certainty. If there are no unknowns involved, it's boring and I don't want to do it.

 

Let's imagine for a moment that Bioware released 186 gear on the CM and I had the right mindset to buy it. What would happen? I would probably stop running flashpoints immediately, since I could no longer improve my gear through them. I might take up the challenge of soloing them, and continue with hardmode operations for a while as well. But since I now have the best gear in the game, it wouldn't take too long to either beat them or decide that they are just too hard for me. And then it would be game over, at least as far as group content is concerned. I'd complete the two and half storylines I've yet to see (solo, of course) and quit the game.

[Orizuru]

There are other games that offer a Pay 2 Win approach. Spending real-world dollars gives someone an actual playable in-game advantage of some sort.

 

These games end up being structured such that if you DON'T spend money in the cash shop, you are gimped.

 

Your ability to play the game becomes tied to how much additional money you pump into it, instead of simply your subscription fees and skill.

 

Offering only cosmetic features in a cash shop does not have the same effect.

 

Pretty much what this guy said.

[TravelersWay]

Thanks for the comments, I think I follow.

 

There is a potential downside to offering end-game gear both in the cash shop AND as in-game rewards. All the company needs to do is increase the "grindy" portion of the in-game rewards to make the cash shop option more attractive, thereby increasing revenue.

 

There ARE games out there that offer a "pay-to-win" microtransaction approach. Whereby the cash spent is NOT for cosmetics, but in things that actually assist one in playing in the game. All the games like this that I know of are characterized by a rather unpleasant grind -- a much more significant grind than any in TOR.

 

The general gist of your viewpoint, as I understand it, is that people should be playing the game for the fun parts, not for the boring parts. The 64 million dollar question becomes:

 

I believe the answer to this question is "Yes it would".

 

Another question along this lines is: If there is, I'd like to know what it is, because I've never seen one.

 

Exactly. Just like the community isn't ready for something like that for the reasons I mentioned previously, perhaps the industry isn't for the reasons you mentioned. At some point, however, we have to encourage someone in the industry to take the chance and see if the theory could work in practice, and have the trust and faith that whomever it be will resist the temptation to resort to the current typical P2W practices. I know there are those out there who can do it. They now just need the will and support.

 

But just how fun and enjoyable would the content be if you could gear yourself up to the max at the push of a button? Would you still do flashpoints if you had nothing more to gain from them?

As I mentioned before, I still run flashpoints because I find them fun. I run them on overleveled characters because sometimes it is fun to faceroll the bad guys (especially after a bad day of work). I run them on low level alts that are already in gear that is better than what drops in the flashpoint because it is fun to keep facing that challenge on a different class and playstyle. I run them with my 9 year old daughter (and adult noob friends with low level characters) and sit back and let them do all the work (and help from time to time in those moments to avoid certain disaster) because I enjoy it.

Edited August 22, 2014 by TravelersWay

[TravelersWay]

In addition to the already mentioned reduction in group availability, the root cause for me is that I don't like being inferior to others. This manifests in at least two different ways. Firstly, I don't like being carried. There would undoubtedly be a number of players who continue to do ops even after acquiring 186 gear. If I'm put in a group with mostly 186 gear and have anything less than 180 myself, I feel like I'm not pulling my weight.

 

I can certainly empathize with that, as I am the same way. But pulling your own weight can come from more than gear. Personally speaking, in MMOs that I am playing (if the mechanics allow for it) I usually won't group up with people until I have run through content solo so I can get a feel for how that content plays out and determine what the best way of beating that content is based on my character and playstyle. That way, when I do group up, I can feel less like a noob and more like a mentor to those who are not familiar with the content, and more like a team player for those that are.

 

In terms of gear, one can be in max level gear, but still not pull their own weight if they have no idea what they are doing in any particular piece of content (which happens even now, when there is no purchasable max gear in a cash shop - so that would not be a point against offering it). I have played in groups with people who were really undergeared for content in a particular game, but still did more to help (and beat the content) than those that were because they were already familiar with what they needed to do to succeed. So there are ways around these kinds of issues.

 

Perhaps one solution could be to make all content in the game soloable so that those who do not want to be carried can play said content and learn the mechanics and discover solutions to success prior to joining a group and getting that feeling of inferiority. Naturally, rewards would be scaled down/vastly different when playing solo as opposed to playing "normally."