Some issues with nonsense in PVP.

[-kobie-]

also, as far as the CC problem is concered, look at that sectioned blue bar under your health bar, above your head. 4 blue bars means you CANNOT BE CCD until they wear off, which takes 15 seconds iirc. So, if you get repeatedly CC'd, you'll temporarily become immune to them. Which makes it smart, to, ya know, not cc people with a full blue bar. The cc would be wasted. The CC bar also counts things like those ****** little 2.5 second 30% speed slows as 1/4 CC bar.

 

Honestly, PvP just takes getting used to.

 

The functionality of the resolve bar is up for debate at this time.

[Bcaseb]

The functionality of the resolve bar is up for debate at this time.

 

Oh? I've had no problems with it whatsoever. Or do you mean BW is debating it?

[Graveside]

This game was pushed out from all the hype and money spent. The pvp of this game is lacking balance and rewards overall.

 

I am not talking about just 1 vs. 1, I am talking warzones, abilities, stun/daze/incap timers, reusable abilities for un-doing said stun/daze/incap. Damage output overall with all classes as well as damage midigation for tank type classes.

 

I am not the only one looking at this and noticing these things, which are not minor but becoming more noticable as player gain higher levels.

 

A prime example: 41 Sith Juggernaut vs 38 Rebel (did not see what class), was using some ability that produced a Holographic image of a girl dancing. This ability was dazing me for 3-5 seconds and being repeatedly used every 5 seconds. The most I could do was get lucky and interrupt the ability with less than a 2 second cast time (it was more like instant).

 

I don't understand if the game was in beta testing for a long time how was none of this noticed. I understand BW you focused on PvE, but PvP is a MAJOR aspect of the MMO world now days. If you not believe me, just ask how many MMO players are looking forward to Guild Wars 2.

 

Enough said, you need to seriously re-examine this balance of classes.

[Bcaseb]

ummmmm I'm fairly certain you get a holographic dancer if you buy either the collectors edition or the "digital deluxe" version.

[Bcaseb]

Also, I believe the pvp sticky has acknowledged issues listed. One of the major ones being rewards.

[-kobie-]

Oh? I've had no problems with it whatsoever. Or do you mean BW is debating it?

 

No, I mean whether it's actually working is up for debate. Sometimes it's fine, sometimes I and others will have a full resolve bar and still get CC'd.

[ProfessorWalsh]

Run behind us so we can't shoot you. Shoot us 3 or 4 times with regular attacks or twice with a barrage, win.

 

Not quite.

 

"Shoot" isn't possible as a Sentinel.

[ProfessorWalsh]

ummmmm I'm fairly certain you get a holographic dancer if you buy either the collectors edition or the "digital deluxe" version.

 

It isn't that ability. He's describing a Smuggler ability.

[CHRISGG]

It isn't that ability. He's describing a Smuggler ability.

 

He's actually describing a companion ability, which his companion also gets.

[TheJollyRogers]

Are you playing in Warzones with zero troopers/bounty hunters? We have stealth scan.

[Bahll]

This is actually a very wrong statement:

 

1. If this is rock, paper, scissors then the Jedi Sentine and Sith Marauder are... Eh... Not options.

 

2. When something can be used to gain an overwhelming tactical advantage you do alter it because it is unbalanced.

 

Well my AI OP doesn't have a gap closer, I guess force charge should be taken out of the game by that reasoning? Not sure if you noticed, but if you can pull a stealther out before we open, we are very squishy.

 

No one on these forums should be crying for balance yet. The pop is no where close to max level as a whole, and they do not have enough data to balance.

 

I will agree that stuns are a bit OP right now, (more noticeable in Huttball IMO) but they will balance them out.

 

I expect the resolve bar to fill faster and stay full for longer to off set the amount of stuns (just think this would be an easy way to offset the stun-locking that happens now).

[Caeliux]

Are you playing in Warzones with zero troopers/bounty hunters? We have stealth scan.

 

Don't tell these people how to play, let them learn their own mistakes, shame on you making sense on these forums..

[ZHRGG]

Sents are completely fine, I would take one just for Transcendence every few seconds. They also do great damage. Made a bomb rush in Voidstar so respawned. But, you know, that requires you to actually have a brain to use the abilities and understand what the class does. Edited December 25, 2011 by ZHRGG

[ProfessorWalsh]

Sents are completely fine, I would take one just for Transcendence every few seconds. They also do great damage. Made a bomb rush in Voidstar so respawned. But, you know, that requires you to actually have a brain to use the abilities and understand what the class does.

 

Really? Transcendence every few seconds?

 

You mean the skill that requires 30 stacks of centering which takes time to build up and requires you being able to hit enemies, build focus, and score kills?

 

You aren't doing that in a Warzone "every few seconds" not only that (since we are on the topic) you also know that you can't Transcendence "out of the gate" unless you have a specific skill that grants you 30 stacks and even then it has a fairly long cooldown to be doing "every few seconds" in fact every few seconds is usually once every 30 seconds at the best of times and in PVP you are often dead before you can get to 30 stacks of Centering which is needed to activate it.

 

See I know the class very well.

 

Do they do great damage? Yes.

 

So do the following classes:

Imperial Agent: Operative

Imperial Agent: Sniper

Jedi Knight: Guardian

Jedi Consular: Sage

Jedi Consular: Shadow

Smuggler: Scoundrel

Smuggler: Gunslinger

Sith Inquisitor: Sorcerer

Sith Inquisitor: Assassin

Sith Warrior: Juggernaut

Sith Warrior: Marauder

Bounty Hunter: Powertech

Bounty Hunter: Mercenary

Trooper: Commando

Trooper: Vanguard

 

In fact every single class in this game does the same DPS as the Sentinel... And most of them do it from range... Also they have a lot more CC, mobility, and utility to boot.

[AlyxDinas]

While I generally agree that there should be some way to take attacking someone in cover from behind into consideration when it comes to abilities like Force Leap or Harpoon, I want to wonder about just how big of an issue it is. Generally, I find that if I'm getting the drop on someone from behind, as much as those abilities might be somewhat helpful, I'm still getting the drop on them anyway because, you know, I'm behind them. I find it only makes a major differences in Huttball.

 

As to the issue with stealth, some of this can be dealt with through taking steps to build survivability in regards to taking the first hit. Stealthers tend to take it for granted that opening with a stun from stealth means they're going to win one on one but this isn't exactly true. Ignoring that PvP, especially in warzones, is a team effort in which many of these supposed issues can be dealt with through smart pairings, if you're able to take that hit and not panic and waste your CC break right away, it is entirely possible to recover from and even out DPS and turn the tables on your attacker with a little forethought in how you use your skills. It's never a 100 percent sure thing but it's it entirely possible.

 

Which brings me to an important matter in regards to supposed issue number three. Resolve. Even if a class doesn't have the same CC options as another, proper use of resolve and waiting for the right time to actually use your CC break tends to help combat any issues.

 

At best, you might be able to have some type of brief stun immunity or upped resolve generation added to certain specs, I'd say.

Edited December 25, 2011 by AlyxDinas

[ProfessorWalsh]

While I generally agree that there should be some way to take attacking someone in cover from behind into consideration when it comes to abilities like Force Leap or Harpoon, I want to wonder about just how big of an issue it is. Generally, I find that if I'm getting the drop on someone from behind, as much as those abilities might be somewhat helpful, I'm still getting the drop on them anyway because, you know, I'm behind them. I find it only makes a major differences in Huttball.

 

As to the issue with stealth, some of this can be dealt with through taking steps to build survivability in regards to taking the first hit. Stealthers tend to take it for granted that opening with a stun from stealth means they're going to win one on one but this isn't exactly true. Ignoring that PvP, especially in warzones, is a team effort in which many of these supposed issues can be dealt with through smart pairings, if you're able to take that hit and not panic and waste your CC break right away, it is entirely possible to recover from and even out DPS and turn the tables on your attacker with a little forethought in how you use your skills. It's never a 100 percent sure thing but it's it entirely possible.

 

Which brings me to an important matter in regards to supposed issue number three. Resolve. Even if a class doesn't have the same CC options as another, proper use of resolve and waiting for the right time to actually use your CC break tends to help combat any issues.

 

At best, you might be able to have some type of brief stun immunity or upped resolve generation added to certain specs, I'd say.

 

The problem Alyx is that in Warzones it isn't always about the Stealther getting the kill so much as interrupting a cap. A stealther, for example, can pretty much guarantee a minimum of an 8 and an average of 14 to a maximum of 18 second delay on a cap from a single instant attack from stealth. How?

 

Pop out, land one hit (any hit) and it disrupts a cap attempt. This causes the timer to start over (now it is 8 seconds) if they use a stun, mez, or a DoT it becomes far longer.

 

Also yes, before someone tries the straw man argument, it is possible to catch the stealther before that power goes off (I have done it, once, when I saw the stealther and managed to pop Force Stasis before they could attack my companion, companion meaning team mate of course not the npc partners) but it is incredibly difficult and relies so much on random luck it isn't funny.

 

In a map like the Alderaan Warzone or the Voidstar this 8 to 18 second (or more) delay usually does mean the difference between a successful capture and a loss.

 

(I'm not going to even go into the fact of how the Sentinel, a class supposedly having "mobility" as a primary feature, has no Force speed and is always beaten to objectives by ranged and/or stealth classes.)

 

The other thing you bring up is pairings.

 

This is another straw man fallacy that people fall into when playing stealth classes. I should not need a partner, another player, to deal with a stealther. They are one player, I am one player, they should not be so powerful that I need a second player to deal with them.

Edited December 25, 2011 by ProfessorWalsh

[AlyxDinas]

They are one player, I am one player, they should not be so powerful that I need a second player to deal with them.

 

Bottom line is that if you're unable to deal with that one player anyway, which seems to be what you are implying anyway, I'm curious as to how effective of a player you are. By your assessment, stealthers should always win one on ones if they get the the first strike from stealth. This is not the case.

 

So as much as you think that you've constructed some brilliant point in regards to my comments about pairings, you haven't. All it tells me is that you don't fully know how to handle the situation properly by yourself as a player. There are means available to everyone to counter initial damage taken as well as to bolster expertise to reduce damage taken and increase your output, for instance.

 

End of the day, you can take the initial stun lock and damage and still manage to pop out of that with the means to take the attacker out one v. one. And in plenty of cases, I've been able to do it fast enough to take out my attacker and capture the objective in question as well.

 

Like I said before, you're building a case, at *most*, for pure melee DPS to have some type of minor CC immunity considerations/resolve bolstering. And in the case of the former, if implemented, I'd be willing to bet it would probably be on a greater cooldown than you'd like. Mostly because smart playing can grant you some general immunity anyway.

 

Basically, I think the point about directional cover is fairly valid. Attacks from behind should probably be taken into consideration, except maybe pulls (and then it'd be only if you specc'd a certain tree). And I think you are on the right track somewhat about CC. Somewhat. I don't think you're gonna get the type of major concessions you'd like to see since smart play can already help counteract some of the issues. Particularly in regards to dealing with stealth classes.

Edited December 25, 2011 by AlyxDinas

[ProfessorWalsh]

So as much as you think that you've constructed some brilliant point in regards to my comments about pairings, you haven't. All it tells me is that you don't fully know how to handle the situation properly by yourself as a player. There are means available to everyone to counter initial damage taken as well as to bolster expertise to reduce damage taken and increase your output, for instance.

 

Well considering I frequently make it into the top three in Warzones and usually have between 2-3 MVP votes and that isn't when playing with friends... I'll state that I'm pretty darn good with the class. It isn't a matter of knowing how... I know how you are supposed to do it.

 

You are either:

1. Supposed to hold your CC break until your resolve meter is at the top.

2. Expose stealthers with AOE attacks before they can pop out. (The Sentinel, Combat Spec, has 2 of these, both cost Focus unfortunately.)

 

Other than that, there isn't much a Sentinel can do.

[rakah]

Also in STO you could break a friendly out of a stun by using science team on them, havent come across much that can be used to break friendlies free when stunned / held.

 

The sage dispell thing works for most stuff except tech. would be OK if the operation frames weren't tiny and bugged (sometimes shows the wrong health etc).

[silentsurfer]

Not quite.

 

"Shoot" isn't possible as a Sentinel.

 

Why would any ability smugglers have make your list as a Sentinel??? Sentinels are almost untouchable by smugglers when evenly matched.

[Nykes]

This is actually a very wrong statement:

 

1. If this is rock, paper, scissors then the Jedi Sentine and Sith Marauder are... Eh... Not options.

 

2. When something can be used to gain an overwhelming tactical advantage you do alter it because it is unbalanced.

 

I play a sentinel, you are doing it wrong, learn your class before you rail on game mechanics. I am loving sentinel in every aspect.

[fleeZy]

not only that, but the CC breaking ability requires you to be FACING your aggressor? ***? im slowed trying to GET AWAY and you want me to TURN and LOOK at them!?

[ProfessorWalsh]

I play a sentinel, you are doing it wrong, learn your class before you rail on game mechanics. I am loving sentinel in every aspect.

 

This is a straw man argument.

 

"I like it so it is perfect! You need to learn to play!"

 

Isn't really compelling. The Sentinel has been proven as in 100% undeniably lacking in utility compared to other classes that have the same (or more) DPS potential. This isn't really something you can argue because it isn't a matter of opinion.

 

I have learned the class.

 

I played it beta. I probably have a lot more experience with it than you do. I know the weaknesses and the strengths of the class and I can make the class perform. I also know I have to work a hundred times harder on the Sentinel to do that than I do on any other class which indicates a severe problem.

[Meerick]

In regards to number 2 are you complaining about Scoundrel stealth, Shadow stealth or just stealth in general? Because as a Sentinel you should never be worried about a Scoundrel, you will rip us to shreds, and I play both Smuggler AC so I should know *shudders*.

[mrkab]

You should try fighting a stealth in 1v1 World PvP. Impossible to win.

 

Funny, I've rocked every stealther that's tried.

 

DoTs + AoE = stealth is useless once you pop out the first time