Some issues with nonsense in PVP.

[ProfessorWalsh]

A few things BioWare needs to look at:

 

1. Imperial Agent: Sniper and Smuggler: Gunslinger both have what I can only call a bug in PVP with regards to cover.

 

The whole point of cover is that it is supposed to give you defense against targets in your forward arc. It currently does a little more than this. As a Jedi Sentinel I can approach an agent from behind and... Still can't leap...

 

Why?

 

If I am behind them they should not get to turn off one of my primary class abilities.

 

2. Stealth is a little... Uh... How do I put this... Stupidly overpowered in warzones.

 

Currently a nearly unbeatable combination for defense of a point in Voidstar or Alderaan Warzone is for a stealther to sit at a capture point invisible and wait for an enemy to come up. Whap. Pop out, pop them, then disrupt it. In some cases these same people can instantly vanish again. This is not a feat a non-stealther can manage. A non-stealther can be seen, targeted, and mezzed, aka be countered. This is not possible with stealthers. This is so powerful that as of late the number of stealthers in PVP have increase exponentially.

 

3. CC.

 

Almost every class (with a few exceptions) have a massive soul crushing plethora of CC options. The only CC break, however, is on a 2 minute cool down. The classes that lack significant CC are significantly weaker due to not being able to utilize CC and the classes that depend on being mobile are virtually crippled in most situations because of this.

 

Please, for all that is right and just in the world, give us some more CC mitigation particularly to non-stealth-enabled melee classes.

Edited December 24, 2011 by ProfessorWalsh

[Marcuspasnicus]

Ahhh the plight of Warrior pvp.

 

I agree with 1 & 3, stealth is what it is, without it they are warriors with no armor.

[Zeromentor]

Grab a Vanguard in the shield tree, 100% chance to immobilize for 3 seconds after revealing someone with Stealth Scan. I'm only assuming here, but Powertechs probably have the same thing.

 

10 second targetted AoE with a 30 second cooldown. Use in chokepoints or near objectives, bound to catch someone with it. Then harpoon/storm or sit back and spray.

 

 

That's how you counter stealth, outside of waiting for them to break it for an attack.

For the CCs, that's how this game is. Sucks a little for Jedi Knights and Sith Warriors, but they'll probably find some kind of balance for that sooner or later.

 

 

In any case, this PvP experience is pretty nice. They just need to fix some bugs, lag, and the help fix the problems people are having with their FPS.

[Loki_]

Stun.. Yeah its crap to be stunned in any mmo and has always been a retarded mechanic.

 

What is even more annoying tho is the chain stun, when you break a stun only to be stunned again immiedatly after, star trek online had the same crap at the start with viral matrix a 30 sec stun that could be aplied over and over to the same target.

 

What is needed is something like a 10 sec immunity / recourse to stun after you recover from a stun to revent chain stunning.

 

Dont think any MMO developers have ever got stun right at launch .. Thought maybe by now devs would have figured this out.

 

Also in STO you could break a friendly out of a stun by using science team on them, havent come across much that can be used to break friendlies free when stunned / held.

[Zeromentor]

Stun.. Yeah its crap to be stunned in any mmo and has always been a retarded mechanic.

 

What is even more annoying tho is the chain stun, when you break a stun only to be stunned again immiedatly after, star trek online had the same crap at the start with viral matrix a 30 sec stun that could be aplied over and over to the same target.

 

What is needed is something like a 10 sec immunity / recourse to stun after you recover from a stun to revent chain stunning.

 

Dont think any MMO developers have ever got stun right at launch .. Thought maybe by now devs would have figured this out.

 

Also in STO you could break a friendly out of a stun by using science team on them, havent come across much that can be used to break friendlies free when stunned / held.

 

Would be cool if Guard lowered CC's timers by any where from 20-50% (not more than that). But that might give tanks too much control of the battlefield... Maybe do that for JKs and SWs tanks only?

 

But yeah, stunlocks suck. But if you stay with your team (not go solo into a pack of 3+) you shouldn't be stunlocked or CC'd to death in this game. If you are, and your team isn't stopped it, get a new team.

[Maxxacre]

It's rock, paper, scissors. You only see things from your own perspective. A sniper in cover may be immune to your leap, but he's not immune to knockbacks and if he stays stationary he's toast... especially if a stealther comes up behind him and starts slamming him with backstab.

 

As far as stealth goes, it's a game mechanic... it's in nearly every MMO, and it's relatively the same in each one too. It's something you have to deal with. Each class has its own specific objective based strengths and weaknesses. Yes, a stealther can sneak up on a door in Voidstar, or defend a door relatively successfully... but you know that, and that just means you have to adapt to it. Similarly, you should know that a high level Sorcerer/Sage will pull ball handlers in Huttball... so you plan for it and try to limit their options. When something can be used to gain a tactical advantage, you don't just remove it from the game or change it... the players either adapt or they will fail. This is how every MMO operates.

[Polly_Pocket]

It's rock, paper, scissors.

 

This is an inaccurate analogy since, with swtor, rock always beats scissors and paper is currently being used while on the toilet.

[ProfessorWalsh]

It's rock, paper, scissors. You only see things from your own perspective. A sniper in cover may be immune to your leap, but he's not immune to knockbacks and if he stays stationary he's toast... especially if a stealther comes up behind him and starts slamming him with backstab.

 

As far as stealth goes, it's a game mechanic... it's in nearly every MMO, and it's relatively the same in each one too. It's something you have to deal with. Each class has its own specific objective based strengths and weaknesses. Yes, a stealther can sneak up on a door in Voidstar, or defend a door relatively successfully... but you know that, and that just means you have to adapt to it. Similarly, you should know that a high level Sorcerer/Sage will pull ball handlers in Huttball... so you plan for it and try to limit their options. When something can be used to gain a tactical advantage, you don't just remove it from the game or change it... the players either adapt or they will fail. This is how every MMO operates.

 

This is actually a very wrong statement:

 

1. If this is rock, paper, scissors then the Jedi Sentine and Sith Marauder are... Eh... Not options.

 

2. When something can be used to gain an overwhelming tactical advantage you do alter it because it is unbalanced.

[Taral]

 

2. Stealth is a little... Uh... How do I put this... Stupidly overpowered in warzones.

 

Currently a nearly unbeatable combination for defense of a point in Voidstar or Alderaan Warzone is for a stealther to sit at a capture point invisible and wait for an enemy to come up. Whap. Pop out, pop them, then disrupt it. In some cases these same people can instantly vanish again. This is not a feat a non-stealther can manage. A non-stealther can be seen, targeted, and mezzed, aka be countered. This is not possible with stealthers. This is so powerful that as of late the number of stealthers in PVP have increase exponentially.

 

You should try fighting a stealth in 1v1 World PvP. Impossible to win.

[ProfessorWalsh]

You should try fighting a stealth in 1v1 World PvP. Impossible to win.

 

Eh, actually it isn't impossible, just insanely hard and it requires your 2 minute CC break to be available.

 

I have done it, but ONLY because I used stims and saved my CC break. My enemy tried to vanish and run but I actually had Force Sweep up and I managed to de-cloak him.

[Munx]

It's rock, paper, scissors. You only see things from your own perspective. A sniper in cover may be immune to your leap, but he's not immune to knockbacks and if he stays stationary he's toast... especially if a stealther comes up behind him and starts slamming him with backstab.

 

As far as stealth goes, it's a game mechanic... it's in nearly every MMO, and it's relatively the same in each one too. It's something you have to deal with. Each class has its own specific objective based strengths and weaknesses. Yes, a stealther can sneak up on a door in Voidstar, or defend a door relatively successfully... but you know that, and that just means you have to adapt to it. Similarly, you should know that a high level Sorcerer/Sage will pull ball handlers in Huttball... so you plan for it and try to limit their options. When something can be used to gain a tactical advantage, you don't just remove it from the game or change it... the players either adapt or they will fail. This is how every MMO operates.

 

If its rock paper scissor then Bounty Hunter / Storm Troopers must be a Swiss Knife wrapped in a freaking towel.

 

Personally I havnt had that much problems with stealthers in pvp, the main issue I am having is when classes with MASSIVE utility overcrowd a match, there seriously needs to be limit per class on each team..

 

Also the marauder is in serious need of real cc, the 2 stuns we currently have are pretty much useless.

 

our aoe "stun" breaks on dmg, or sometimes it just breaks instantly without damage.

 

Force choke, locks you in place, meaning non extra damage, and makes you a easy target, not to mention a simple knockback cancels the stun.

 

Don't even get me started on the resolve bar, its a absolute joke, and one of the worst anti stun systems i've seen so far.

[Telaan]

A few things BioWare needs to look at:

 

1. Imperial Agent: Sniper and Smuggler: Gunslinger both have what I can only call a bug in PVP with regards to cover.

 

The whole point of cover is that it is supposed to give you defense against targets in your forward arc. It currently does a little more than this. As a Jedi Sentinel I can approach an agent from behind and... Still can't leap...

 

Why?

 

If I am behind them they should not get to turn off one of my primary class abilities.

 

2. Stealth is a little... Uh... How do I put this... Stupidly overpowered in warzones.

 

Currently a nearly unbeatable combination for defense of a point in Voidstar or Alderaan Warzone is for a stealther to sit at a capture point invisible and wait for an enemy to come up. Whap. Pop out, pop them, then disrupt it. In some cases these same people can instantly vanish again. This is not a feat a non-stealther can manage. A non-stealther can be seen, targeted, and mezzed, aka be countered. This is not possible with stealthers. This is so powerful that as of late the number of stealthers in PVP have increase exponentially.

 

3. CC.

 

Almost every class (with a few exceptions) have a massive soul crushing plethora of CC options. The only CC break, however, is on a 2 minute cool down. The classes that lack significant CC are significantly weaker due to not being able to utilize CC and the classes that depend on being mobile are virtually crippled in most situations because of this.

 

Please, for all that is right and just in the world, give us some more CC mitigation particularly to non-stealth-enabled melee classes.

 

The issues you have with stealth are really a non-issue within the game. It adds another level of depth and strategy to the game. Can a stealther be infuriating at times? Yup, but its working as intended. If you ever played NGE SWG you'd have seen a perfect example of a retarded and broken stealth design. Oh and I don't play a stealth class.

 

However, you're absolutely correct about BWs cc mechanics. The amount off cc isn't necessarily the problem the lack of any real diminishing returns is. Resolve is a joke.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Telaan

[silentsurfer]

A few things BioWare needs to look at:

 

1. Imperial Agent: Sniper and Smuggler: Gunslinger both have what I can only call a bug in PVP with regards to cover.

 

The whole point of cover is that it is supposed to give you defense against targets in your forward arc. It currently does a little more than this. As a Jedi Sentinel I can approach an agent from behind and... Still can't leap...

 

Why?

 

If I am behind them they should not get to turn off one of my primary class abilities.

 

 

I think the animation is confusing and it's easy to take to literal. Also I think what's going on is the smuggler is using Hunker Down which is an ability with a cool down that allows them to not be knocked out of cover. I can't recall at the moment if I have been leaped on while in cover, but I seem to remember it's just Hunker Down that gives protection from this. The cover mechanic is weak, it doesn't allow the smuggler to turn or even move, so you can move behind them and unless they move, which means they have very few usable abilities that can damage a melee class, you can whack away at them. And then once they do move because you are behind them, they are at a severe disadvantage. There is a reason why EVERY class in the game charges headlong at smugglers in pvp, because they have almost no defense and it is very very difficult to kite melee classes in this game due to most melee classes having CC and/or ranged attacks.

[fatduck]

someone beat me

 

fix it

[Gymnotiformes]

#1 makes complete sense to me.

 

#2 is a little off, I think. I mean, stealth is stealth. You have to approach people from the back or they can see you. If it bothers you, stealth check.

 

#3 The CC is pretty big in this game, yeah. I don't actually mind it all that much though, maybe I'm just crazy or used to Guild Wars or something. But you had an interesting idea. Each of the melees could have a special thing; the powertechs have some long range attacks, the assassins can stealth, and maybe it can be changed so the juggernauts/marauders could resist CC super well

[ProfessorWalsh]

#1 makes complete sense to me.

 

Front arc cover should not equal rear arc cover.

 

#2 is a little off, I think. I mean, stealth is stealth. You have to approach people from the back or they can see you. If it bothers you, stealth check.

 

Not everyone can stealth check. Sentinels, for example, can't do it unless they have focus which they can only get if they can hit something. Which they can't do if the enemy they need to hit to reveal them is in stealth.

 

#3 The CC is pretty big in this game, yeah. I don't actually mind it all that much though, maybe I'm just crazy or used to Guild Wars or something. But you had an interesting idea. Each of the melees could have a special thing; the powertechs have some long range attacks, the assassins can stealth, and maybe it can be changed so the juggernauts/marauders could resist CC super well

 

The Sentinel and Marauder have the worst CC in the game. The only thing that is even somewhat reliable is Force Choke/Force Stasis and that CC's us as well in the form of a channeled ability that every single class can stop. Not only this but our only reliable form is on a long cool down.

[Sirolos]

A few things BioWare needs to look at:

 

 

 

2. Stealth is a little... Uh... How do I put this... Stupidly overpowered in warzones.

 

Currently a nearly unbeatable combination for defense of a point in Voidstar or Alderaan Warzone is for a stealther to sit at a capture point invisible and wait for an enemy to come up. Whap. Pop out, pop them, then disrupt it. In some cases these same people can instantly vanish again. This is not a feat a non-stealther can manage. A non-stealther can be seen, targeted, and mezzed, aka be countered. This is not possible with stealthers. This is so powerful that as of late the number of stealthers in PVP have increase exponentially.

 

.

 

umm..go make a trooper..get stealthscan...then laugh..

 

Or stay on your Jedi warrior and complain..

 

but stealth isnt an issue

[ProfessorWalsh]

I think the animation is confusing and it's easy to take to literal. Also I think what's going on is the smuggler is using Hunker Down which is an ability with a cool down that allows them to not be knocked out of cover. I can't recall at the moment if I have been leaped on while in cover, but I seem to remember it's just Hunker Down that gives protection from this. The cover mechanic is weak, it doesn't allow the smuggler to turn or even move, so you can move behind them and unless they move, which means they have very few usable abilities that can damage a melee class, you can whack away at them. And then once they do move because you are behind them, they are at a severe disadvantage. There is a reason why EVERY class in the game charges headlong at smugglers in pvp, because they have almost no defense and it is very very difficult to kite melee classes in this game due to most melee classes having CC and/or ranged attacks.

 

You are incorrect.

 

While using any form of cover at the current time makes you immune to Force Leap. We cannot do it, so we cannot close, and even if we (Sentinels) do close we have no way to remove you from cover as we have no way to remove you from cover as we have no knock backs or pulls.

 

There is a reason why EVERY class in the game charges headlong at smugglers in pvp, because they have almost no defense and it is very very difficult to kite melee classes in this game due to most melee classes having CC and/or ranged attacks.

 

You have never played a Sentinel or a Marauder then.

 

We have 2 10 meter ranged attacks that are on long cool downs.

We have 1 30 meter gap closer.

We have 1 CC that is a 10 meter channeled ability for 3 seconds, channeled meaning it stops us from moving.

 

It is theoretically possible to get a second one for 2 talent points high in the combat tree, at which point we would have a short duration root.

 

We do have a focus-costing snare that we can keep on someone providing that we can close.

 

That is all we have.

 

We also have a long cool down 4 second stealth that allows us brief closing providing that we spec it it can also break roots and snares but not mezzes or stuns.

[ProfessorWalsh]

umm..go make a trooper..get stealthscan...then laugh..

 

Or stay on your Jedi warrior and complain..

 

but stealth isnt an issue

 

Right see. That is a problem. The Jedi Knights should be just as viable and have as much utility as Troopers. If we go by the lore they should have a lot more. The point is not all classes can compete on anywhere near the same level.

[Sirolos]

Right see. That is a problem. The Jedi Knights should be just as viable and have as much utility as Troopers. If we go by the lore they should have a lot more. The point is not all classes can compete on anywhere near the same level.

 

We arent going by LORE..

 

What your asking isn't even logical

 

This game works in a Rock Paper Scissors image and is a doing a pretty good job at it.

 

A Sentinal has tools that make it just as viable to a team, as much as everyother class

 

and it has its weaknesses like EVERY OTHER CLASS.

 

A sniper in cover isnt going to make short work of the assassin

 

The assassin isnt going to make short work of the commando

 

The commando isnt going to make short work of the warrior

 

Every class has some other class that will skip along and knock it in the head.

 

Their isnt a class in this game thats the BE ALL END ALL class

 

I would suggest you learn MORE about the strengths and weaknesses of ALL AC's

[Bcaseb]

OP, Roll a BH and cut down on the QQ. Stealth scan + flamesweep. If you spec shieldtech, and get the talent NO ESCAPE 2/2, every time you reveal a stealthed unit with stealth scan or Grapple, you immobilize them for 3 seconds. combined with dots, you don't have to worry about stealthed units, just about ever.

 

for other classes, I believe every class has at least 1 basic dot. Use it on stealthed characters, and back up into a control point. that way you'll see them coming far more often. You can turn around in place and still cap. You need to be looking back and forth and never let them surprise you, as the element of surprise is their main advantage.

 

Edit: forgot grapple also procced no escape.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Bcaseb

[silentsurfer]

Front arc cover should not equal rear arc cover.

 

You are missing the point, smugs can't turn while in cover. So you can get behind us and we have to move to shoot you. Simply step behind the smuggler and start hitting them problem solved. We can only take about 3 or 4 hits max before we are dead anyways.

[silentsurfer]

While using any form of cover at the current time makes you immune to Force Leap. We cannot do it, so we cannot close, and even if we (Sentinels) do close we have no way to remove you from cover as we have no way to remove you from cover as we have no knock backs or pulls.

 

Run behind us so we can't shoot you. Shoot us 3 or 4 times with regular attacks or twice with a barrage, win.

[-kobie-]

stealth is what it is, without it they are warriors with no armor.

 

THIS. Stealthers are squishy, which is why they have stealth in the first place.

[Bcaseb]

also, as far as the CC problem is concerned, look at that sectioned blue bar under your health bar, above your head. 4 blue bars means you CANNOT BE CC'd until they wear off, which takes 15 seconds IIRC. So, if you get repeatedly CC'd, you'll temporarily become immune to them. Which makes it smart, to, ya know, not cc people with a full blue bar. The cc would be wasted. The CC bar also counts things like those ****** little 2.5 second 30% speed slows as 1/4 CC bar.

 

Honestly, PvP just takes getting used to.

 

Edit: typos.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Bcaseb