Devs, any ideas to improve AP/Tactics?

[TACeMossie]

The question is how well does AP/Tactics parse in PvE?

 

Best Assault parse I pulled off: ~4140 dps

Best Tactics parse I pulled off: ~3520 dps

 

However, 0% of the assault parse was AoE while 29.5% of the tactics parse was AoE, and Pulse Cannon had an abnormally low crit rate while Fire Pulse/Ion Pulse had abnormally high ones, throwing off the ratios.

 

Toning everything down to Dread Forged Gear, the average DPS assuming perfect RNG on procs and crits happening exactly as often as the gear says it will is:

 

Spec : DPS : AoE %

Assault : 3998.619 : 0%

Tactics : 3382.146 : 32.976%

 

This allows us to determine that Tactics is ~15.4% behind assault in single target DPS (or that Assault is ~18.2% ahead), however if it can hit a second target 55.27% of the time with its AoE moves it will catch up.

 

WARNING: OFF TOPIC PVE RELATED MATHS AHEAD. OPEN SPOILER TAGS AT YOUR OWN RISK

 

 

As such, it is safe to assume Tactics's AoE potential is balanced around this, so to buff the single target DPS, you have to nerf its AoE proportionally.

 

A good goal to aim for is to reduce pulse generator to +30% DPS increase and remove mortar volley from the rotation, then adjust everything else proportionally to catch up assuming 55.27% uptime on a second target.

 

Doing the reduction for Pulse Generator/Mortar Volley removal reduces the AoE DPS from tactics from ~1115.296 to 788.85 dps. This means the 55.27% uptime on AoE for a second target grants 436 dps, down from 616.42 dps.

 

So, the DPS increase would have to be 180.473 - with a further 326.446 to account for the lost DPS from reduced AoE.

 

 

Anyway, sorry bout clogging up the PvP thread with PvE stuff, but even more maths showed that after halving the effects of pulse generator and removing mortar volley from the single target rotation, the necessary DPS increase to be competitive comes from:

 

Shoulder Cannon: Loaded in 10 seconds, Cooldown reduced to 45 seconds (talented). Keeps its 7 missiles.

Stockstrike: Cooldown to 7.5 seconds (talented), Battering Ram RNG removed

Gut: +10% initial damage, +20% bleed

Pulse Generator: Energy Cost reduction increased to 6 per stack from 2 per stack (and damage increase reduced from 20% to 10% in case you didn't open the spoiler window)

 

End result, Tactics would get a DPS increase to be respectable in PvE without needing to do AoE damage, reduces the reliance on its 3 second channel, gives more burst damage, and increases the reliability of the damage. It still has the ability to utilize mortar volley for AoE though, which is nice.

 

Oh and most of these had already shown up in the thread. I'd also make Gut uncleansable, because its not that bad of a DoT but is necessary for Tactics to do good damage, which helps it in PvP.

 

As for survivability, I made a post earlier about survivability. Reduced cooldown on energy rebounder to 6 seconds and Reduced cooldown on adrenaline rush to 90 seconds baseline (with adjustments to the talent in assault to keep it at 36 seconds when under constant pressure)

 

We already get a 20% surge bonus on RP/SS, 15% crit bonus from the combat tech set, and another 6% crit on top of that under power loaders. The only thing SS/RP is missing is a CD reduction by 1.5 seconds.

 

Its actually a 30% surge bonus

Edited July 8, 2014 by TACeMossie

[helpmewin]

Best Assault parse I pulled off: ~4140 dps

Best Tactics parse I pulled off: ~3520 dps

 

However, 0% of the assault parse was AoE while 29.5% of the tactics parse was AoE, and Pulse Cannon had an abnormally low crit rate while Fire Pulse/Ion Pulse had abnormally high ones, throwing off the ratios.

 

Toning everything down to Dread Forged Gear, the average DPS assuming perfect RNG on procs and crits happening exactly as often as the gear says it will is:

 

Spec : DPS : AoE %

Assault : 3998.619 : 0%

Tactics : 3382.146 : 32.976%

 

This allows us to determine that Tactics is ~15.4% behind assault in single target DPS (or that Assault is ~18.2% ahead), however if it can hit a second target 55.27% of the time with its AoE moves it will catch up.

 

WARNING: OFF TOPIC PVE RELATED MATHS AHEAD. OPEN SPOILER TAGS AT YOUR OWN RISK

 

 

As such, it is safe to assume Tactics's AoE potential is balanced around this, so to buff the single target DPS, you have to nerf its AoE proportionally.

 

A good goal to aim for is to reduce pulse generator to +30% DPS increase and remove mortar volley from the rotation, then adjust everything else proportionally to catch up assuming 55.27% uptime on a second target.

 

Doing the reduction for Pulse Generator/Mortar Volley removal reduces the AoE DPS from tactics from ~1115.296 to 788.85 dps. This means the 55.27% uptime on AoE for a second target grants 436 dps, down from 616.42 dps.

 

So, the DPS increase would have to be 180.473 - with a further 326.446 to account for the lost DPS from reduced AoE.

 

 

Anyway, sorry bout clogging up the PvP thread with PvE stuff, but even more maths showed that after halving the effects of pulse generator and removing mortar volley from the single target rotation, the necessary DPS increase to be competitive comes from:

 

Shoulder Cannon: Loaded in 10 seconds, Cooldown reduced to 45 seconds (talented). Keeps its 7 missiles.

Stockstrike: Cooldown to 7.5 seconds (talented), Battering Ram RNG removed

Gut: +10% initial damage, +20% bleed

Pulse Generator: Energy Cost reduction increased to 6 per stack from 2 per stack (and damage increase reduced from 20% to 10% in case you didn't open the spoiler window)

 

End result, Tactics would get a DPS increase to be respectable in PvE without needing to do AoE damage, reduces the reliance on its 3 second channel, gives more burst damage, and increases the reliability of the damage. It still has the ability to utilize mortar volley for AoE though, which is nice.

 

Oh and most of these had already shown up in the thread. I'd also make Gut uncleansable, because its not that bad of a DoT but is necessary for Tactics to do good damage, which helps it in PvP.

 

As for survivability, I made a post earlier about survivability. Reduced cooldown on energy rebounder to 6 seconds and Reduced cooldown on adrenaline rush to 90 seconds baseline (with adjustments to the talent in assault to keep it at 36 seconds when under constant pressure)

 

 

 

Its actually a 30% surge bonus

 

Nice suggestion.

[Brunner_Venda]

Best Assault parse I pulled off: ~4140 dps

Best Tactics parse I pulled off: ~3520 dps

 

However, 0% of the assault parse was AoE while 29.5% of the tactics parse was AoE, and Pulse Cannon had an abnormally low crit rate while Fire Pulse/Ion Pulse had abnormally high ones, throwing off the ratios.

 

Toning everything down to Dread Forged Gear, the average DPS assuming perfect RNG on procs and crits happening exactly as often as the gear says it will is:

 

Spec : DPS : AoE %

Assault : 3998.619 : 0%

Tactics : 3382.146 : 32.976%

 

This allows us to determine that Tactics is ~15.4% behind assault in single target DPS (or that Assault is ~18.2% ahead), however if it can hit a second target 55.27% of the time with its AoE moves it will catch up.

 

WARNING: OFF TOPIC PVE RELATED MATHS AHEAD. OPEN SPOILER TAGS AT YOUR OWN RISK

 

 

As such, it is safe to assume Tactics's AoE potential is balanced around this, so to buff the single target DPS, you have to nerf its AoE proportionally.

 

A good goal to aim for is to reduce pulse generator to +30% DPS increase and remove mortar volley from the rotation, then adjust everything else proportionally to catch up assuming 55.27% uptime on a second target.

 

Doing the reduction for Pulse Generator/Mortar Volley removal reduces the AoE DPS from tactics from ~1115.296 to 788.85 dps. This means the 55.27% uptime on AoE for a second target grants 436 dps, down from 616.42 dps.

 

So, the DPS increase would have to be 180.473 - with a further 326.446 to account for the lost DPS from reduced AoE.

 

 

Anyway, sorry bout clogging up the PvP thread with PvE stuff, but even more maths showed that after halving the effects of pulse generator and removing mortar volley from the single target rotation, the necessary DPS increase to be competitive comes from:

 

Shoulder Cannon: Loaded in 10 seconds, Cooldown reduced to 45 seconds (talented). Keeps its 7 missiles.

Stockstrike: Cooldown to 7.5 seconds (talented), Battering Ram RNG removed

Gut: +10% initial damage, +20% bleed

Pulse Generator: Energy Cost reduction increased to 6 per stack from 2 per stack (and damage increase reduced from 20% to 10% in case you didn't open the spoiler window)

 

End result, Tactics would get a DPS increase to be respectable in PvE without needing to do AoE damage, reduces the reliance on its 3 second channel, gives more burst damage, and increases the reliability of the damage. It still has the ability to utilize mortar volley for AoE though, which is nice.

 

Oh and most of these had already shown up in the thread. I'd also make Gut uncleansable, because its not that bad of a DoT but is necessary for Tactics to do good damage, which helps it in PvP.

 

As for survivability, I made a post earlier about survivability. Reduced cooldown on energy rebounder to 6 seconds and Reduced cooldown on adrenaline rush to 90 seconds baseline (with adjustments to the talent in assault to keep it at 36 seconds when under constant pressure)

 

 

 

Its actually a 30% surge bonus

 

This is absolutely solid, and it would make a fun viable Class for PVP or PVE

[helpmewin]

This is absolutely solid, and it would make a fun viable Class for PVP or PVE

 

Yes, but will devs hear us?

[Vodrin]

The question is how well does AP/Tactics parse in PvE?

 

The answer to that question will determine whether AP/Tactics gets some extra deeps Dev love. If it comes up short on the PvE parse, love is certainly on the way.

 

BW doesn't give a flying eff about AP/Tactics in PvP. No amount of data you provide would make a difference, which is good since nobody is providing any data whatsoever to back AP/Tactics' deficiencies. heh

 

Well from that standpoint it is probably in good shape as it is currently one of the worse parsing DPS specs in the game from a PvE perspective.

[helpmewin]

I have another suggestion about AOE pressure. Each stack reduce the cast time of pulse canon by 15% and DMG by 3(4)%. That will decrease total DMG done and AOE pressure, but increase total DPS in rotation and will be usefull in PvP. Edited July 9, 2014 by helpmewin

[helpmewin]

I've done with this spec, just unplayable in solo arena's. Ur target N1 and u can't survive.I've try all - stacking HP, relics, specs - nothing helps. Ur have low sustained, lack of burst , ur AOE very easy to counter - low survivability and zero mitigation, SH is useless. Just will back on my main. Spec for perverts, who like pain. GL to all who like this spec as me, mb sometime we will be happy.