Devs, any ideas to improve AP/Tactics?

[helpmewin]

Just tired to play on my main - shadow, infiltration boring as hell - every time u doing all the same, same rotation, same targets to kill, all the same. And i geared up my VG - interesting spec - tactics, my favorite. But if srsly when i played my shadow AP was the second target after merc. Very easy to kill withot CC-s. So now i want to hear from devs - do they think something about AP/Tactics improve? My opinion - low survivability, and low single target DPS, yes when u have rockets its good, but 1 not - when smdy pop his CD, one CD ur super rockets as mosquito bites. Don't want to respec into assault - 3 buttons spam not for me. Edited July 2, 2014 by helpmewin

[JediMasterSLC]

It's not the tankiest spec, but I think lack of sustained damage is more of a problem.

[LanceCorporalDan]

Tactics does well in terms of survivability in my opinion. The only change I would like to see would be a small increase in bleed damage and maybe a tiny boost in damage from fire pulse so it isn't as much of a simple "filler rotation skill." This will help boost the sustained damage some without throwing it way off IMO.

 

I also think devs should make small changes when looking at classes, so when a mistake is inevitably made.. it doesn't break a class nor make it OP. I'm tired of seeing huge swings of the nerf-bat or buffs.

[Natharon]

Assault could probably use another button to push, maybe another grenade?

 

What tactics needs is what shield specialist has. Fast pulse cannon. They should change pulse generator so every stack reduces the channel time with 3x making it as fast as the fast channel you get as a tank. Also the bleed box is a **** investment for a 3% increase, 2 points, it should be 6%. Does anyone even bother with the movement speed increase box? I figure with my gut slow and improved hold the line that box is useless. Maybe change that to something that adds a 1s root onto a special, like stock strike or HIB, or Fire Pulse.

 

As for survivability its a mixed bag, smashers murder my assault spec, dotters murder my tactics spec. Can't always win.

 

Though I think the dot resistance box up assault should be a cool 30% to match the aoe damage reduction box tactics receives. I also think adrenaline rush could be improved especially with tactics, make it a bit more on par with assault would be nice. We can all agree the dot changes they made weren't very well thought out.

 

Edit:

 

Such changes would cause all kinds of grief on scoundrels, commandos and gunslingers.

Edited July 2, 2014 by Natharon

[SOULCASTER]

Quite frankly, AP/Tactics is 100% fine in terms of normal day to day game play. The ONLY problem with AP/tactics at the moment is in Arenas, often more-so in 4 dps vs 4 dps areans. The problem that it encounters is it needs to stack too many abilities before any significant damage is output. AP/Tactics has too many "use this before this, but that before that, and then finally use this last" type of game mechanics. Where pyro/assault is just in your face constant damage.

 

I would like to see them REMOVE the "30% crit multiplier to Gut/retract-blade" in the box called Havoc-Traning (VG) & Prototype-Weapon-Systems (PT) and instead ADD that crit multiplier to your Flame Sweep/Explosive Surge. It would make the spec more AOE (which is what it was in the first place) as well as help not only build your 3x stacks but get some damage off in the process.

 

I would also like to see Adrenaline Rush for AP/Tactics be useable at any health level. I think that would go a long way with its surviability. Basically making it like it WAS, before the change to it a while back.

 

I think implementing both those changes would be huge for the class. But like I said, it's not poorly off right now, it just CAN struggle with arenas.

Edited July 2, 2014 by SOULCASTER

[xxSHOONYxx]

One thing I've seen suggested before is to make prototype flame thrower also increase the damage done by unload by 25~30% per stack, giving the player the option to choose between higher single target DPS or AOE DPS. It would keep AP/Tactics centered around a 3 second channel, but you could adjust your rotation depending on the situation.

 

It would also give powertechs a reason to ever use unload.

 

Also giving AP the same effect on chaff flare that arsenal mercenaries have (absorb the next tech/force attack) would be a god send.

[Brunner_Venda]

1. Change prototype cylinders to 2 or 3% damage increase. 1% for a tier 2 skill is bad.

 

2. Blood tracker: increase damage to bleeding targets by 3/6%. Come on, this is a tier four skill, and paying two skill points for 1.5% damage each is weak.

 

3. Flame barrage: instead of making it free, just reduce the CD of rocket punch by 2 seconds. That would smooth out the rotation and damage.

 

4. DCD's are out of whack, AP defense is way too low to be competitive unless the enemy is all AOE or stun. TAB dotting classes are murdering AP. AP has two melee attacks and a six second interrupt, it needs to be close in and survive.

* Add a little something extra to energy rebounder redoubt procs, either the frequency or amount.

* Give AP access to the Degauss effect with chaff flare. Another DCD button to press.

* Lower the CD on kolto to 90 seconds, same as undying rage.

 

5. The spec depends too much on shoulder cannon and explosive fuel for burst.

* I would gladly take a hit to the number of rockets for a shorter CD on SC or rocket punch.

* having a TWO MINUTE burst window sucks, when assassins walk around with it on demand every minute.

 

Please look , this needs fixing. AP is an outrageously fun spec compared to Pyro and tank.

[iDraxter]

playing AP without a pocket healer just s**ks with all the dots flying around these days it`s easier to live longer and throw more dmg as pyro. It needs a survivability buff, some skill tree changes really the +1% internal/elemental dmg while using HEGC and Blood tracker are too low atm other then that maybe reduce the CD on shoulder cannon as that is the specs only burst window.

Another optional thing would be if u`d allow grapple to work both ways but share the CD so u have to decide if u want to use it to pull some1 or close the gap to target(leap style) and keep the cooldown 35/45 secs because we don`t need a low CD on gap closer(since we have some ranged attacks that can be used as filler and hydraulics)like Warriors/Knights do to be able to do something, pyro is a 10meter class and doesn`t need this you should put it up high in the AP tree.

[TACeMossie]

3. Flame barrage: instead of making it free, just reduce the CD of rocket punch by 2 seconds. That would smooth out the rotation and damage.

 

Hey, that free RP is required for the sustained PvE rotation. So why not do this?

 

FLAME BARRAGE:

Reduces the cooldown on rocket punch by 0.75/1.5 seconds. In addition, Using Flame Burst has a 50/100% chance to grant 1 stack of Flame Barrage, and using immolate has a 50/100% chance to grant 2 stacks of flame barrage, which reduce the heat cost of rocket punch by 8 per stack.

 

Bam - 7.5 second RP cooldown, no RNG behind it being free, and a cooldown that screws with the assault rotation, preventing hybrids.

 

As for 4 and 5:

 

4. Energy rebounder down to 6 seconds. Yes.

Kolto down to 90 seconds. Make it baseline, and significantly reduce the CD reduction from [adrenaline fueled] - I use a VG, too lazy to look up the PT Talent name (4.5 seconds per hit, but 3 second lockout. Keeps its pyro cooldown the same under pressure)

Degauss on Chaff Flare? We're running out of places to put it, but we could always just make it baseline (outside of Ion Cell to stop tanks from dropping their threat) and revert the change to degauss from 2.4 in the pyro tree.

 

5. I've said it in the past, and I'll say it again. Power Loaders also reduces the cooldown on SC by 15 seconds each point. Best way to get that cooldown to reasonable levels.

Edited July 3, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Brunner_Venda]

Hey, that free RP is required for the sustained PvE rotation. So why not do this?

 

FLAME BARRAGE:

Reduces the cooldown on rocket punch by 0.75/1.5 seconds. In addition, Using Flame Burst has a 50/100% chance to grant 1 stack of Flame Barrage, and using immolate has a 50/100% chance to grant 2 stacks of flame barrage, which reduce the heat cost of rocket punch by 8 per stack.

 

Bam - 7.5 second RP cooldown, no RNG behind it being free, and a cooldown that screws with the assault rotation, preventing hybrids.

 

As for 4 and 5:

 

4. Energy rebounder down to 6 seconds. Yes.

Kolto down to 90 seconds. Make it baseline, and significantly reduce the CD reduction from [adrenaline fueled] - I use a VG, too lazy to look up the PT Talent name (4.5 seconds per hit, but 3 second lockout. Keeps its pyro cooldown the same under pressure)

Degauss on Chaff Flare? We're running out of places to put it, but we could always just make it baseline (outside of Ion Cell to stop tanks from dropping their threat) and revert the change to degauss from 2.4 in the pyro tree.

 

5. I've said it in the past, and I'll say it again. Power Loaders also reduces the cooldown on SC by 15 seconds each point. Best way to get that cooldown to reasonable levels.

 

I love these. Make it happen.

 

Power loaders is sort of 'full' already as a skill, doesn't it have the extra RP crit already? Still c the shoulder cannon CD has to come down. If assassins can have recklessness every minute, so should we.

 

If they fix rebounder to six seconds and change the Kolto cooldown, AP would be in an amazing place. No need to fiddle with chaff/Degauss.

 

I agree with people that say AP is in an OK place, it used to be really good, but lately it's been left behind in the buff wars.

[svdiachkov]

Damage increase with Stotskstrike. 5k crit ...

[xxSHOONYxx]

Damage increase with Stotskstrike. 5k crit ...

 

As much as I'd love for RP/SS to hit like a truck it is still just a filler ability. Maybe they could add another effect in with Charged Gauntlets [Combat Tactics]?

 

• RP/SS electrifies/burns the target for X damage over 6 seconds
  
• Rail Shot/HIB refreshes your bleed effect on the target
  
• RP/SS leaves the target bewildered, lowering their damage dealt by 10% for 10 seconds
  
• Rail Shot/HIB now applies trauma to the target, lowering healing received
  
• You can use RP/SS from 10m
  

 

Just some ideas

[helpmewin]

I think no point to discuss. BW needs months/years to fix smdy or make some balance. No point to please them. Better to have 2 or 3 OP specs/classes and faceroll everything - i have shadow 3-4 GCD kills - 10 sec kills with much better survivability and escapes, also have guardian - this is the most tankiest DPS-er with very good sustained(mb the best). Sometimes i enjoy this spec(AP), but he was never valuable(not tank hybrid). My favorite spec if i say. Just want answer - i think they will not answer, cause "PT-s are fine". But they are not. Edited July 3, 2014 by helpmewin

[Brunner_Venda]

As much as I'd love for RP/SS to hit like a truck it is still just a filler ability. Maybe they could add another effect in with Charged Gauntlets [Combat Tactics]?

 

• RP/SS electrifies/burns the target for X damage over 6 seconds
  
• Rail Shot/HIB refreshes your bleed effect on the target
  
• RP/SS leaves the target bewildered, lowering their damage dealt by 10% for 10 seconds
  
• Rail Shot/HIB now applies trauma to the target, lowering healing received
  
• You can use RP/SS from 10m
  

 

Just some ideas

 

We already get a 20% surge bonus on RP/SS, 15% crit bonus from the combat tech set, and another 6% crit on top of that under power loaders. The only thing SS/RP is missing is a CD reduction by 1.5 seconds.

 

The rail shots are underwhelming, even if they do crit automatically after an RP. Refreshing the bleed DOT would be nice without being OP. I mean, we only get one DOT on gut.

 

That and lower the CD on kolto overload, and this fun spec will be in a nice place.

Edited July 5, 2014 by Brunner_Venda

[helpmewin]

That and lower the CD on kolto overload, and this fun spec will be in a nice place.

 

And u can use it at any % health. And little improvements with sustained.

Edited July 5, 2014 by helpmewin

[General_Aldo]

Honestly, the problem is lack of burst damage.

 

AP does well for AOE damage and can easily get over 1k+ dps consistently. (But in rank, burst is more important than sustained damage and this spec lacks fast burst damage)

 

I use to play my powertech but couldn't take it anymore. It's easier to reroll an Assassin since it has more dps/burst damage AND has more survivabilty/utility.

 

Let's be honest, it will take Bioware YEARS to make any adjustment that is needed.

[Brunner_Venda]

Honestly, the problem is lack of burst damage.

 

AP does well for AOE damage and can easily get over 1k+ dps consistently. (But in rank, burst is more important than sustained damage and this spec lacks fast burst damage)

 

I use to play my powertech but couldn't take it anymore. It's easier to reroll an Assassin since it has more dps/burst damage AND has more survivabilty/utility.

 

Let's be honest, it will take Bioware YEARS to make any adjustment that is needed.

 

That burst is there, it's just tied to a two minute CD for shoulder cannon and explosive fuel. That should probably be addressed.

 

Recklessness CD is a hell of a lot less than that...plus one minute off if you hit stealth?

 

The biggest utility AP brings is the cleave, and that's still extremely useful in ranked for pressure and movement control.

Edited July 6, 2014 by Brunner_Venda

[helpmewin]

To be honest - AP have only 1 def ability - shield. Kolto never safe ur *** in this spec. And when u using ur shield not in time or too late = gg. - 30% dmg while u stuned never helps vs burst specs in arenas, the main problem is lack of mitigation in survivability + lack of SH. AOE can be easily countered or vs 2-3 range classes this AOE is nothing. Ur low single target DPS not help to ur team. Lack of burst is problem too. But this spec is fun, i hope sometime he will be in a good place.

Don't compare with sins, my main is sin, they never been UP since release.

Edited July 6, 2014 by helpmewin

[Brunner_Venda]

To be honest - AP have only 1 def ability - shield. Kolto never safe ur *** in this spec. And when u using ur shield not in time or too late = gg. - 30% dmg while u stuned never helps vs burst specs in arenas, the main problem is lack of mitigation in survivability + lack of SH. AOE can be easily countered or vs 2-3 range classes this AOE is nothing. Ur low single target DPS not help to ur team. Lack of burst is problem too. But this spec is fun, i hope sometime he will be in a good place.

Don't compare with sins, my main is sin, they never been UP since release.

 

The defenses are meant to work together on an AP. If you have shields up when you're stun locked by an assassin, they are wasting their time hitting you even if they have duplicity proc and recklessness. If you have shields up when kolto goes off, you get the same defense as pyro has with automated defenses.

 

The shield CD is in a good place, but kolto's CD is way too long for this spec. I'm thinking a minute to a minute and a half TOPS. Kolto is not that great of a CD for non pyro specs.

 

I agree with everything you said though, I hope they do fix it because it's a blast to play.

[LanceCorporalDan]

The defenses are meant to work together on an AP. If you have shields up when you're stun locked by an assassin, they are wasting their time hitting you even if they have duplicity proc and recklessness. If you have shields up when kolto goes off, you get the same defense as pyro has with automated defenses.

 

The shield CD is in a good place, but kolto's CD is way too long for this spec. I'm thinking a minute to a minute and a half TOPS. Kolto is not that great of a CD for non pyro specs.

 

I agree with everything you said though, I hope they do fix it because it's a blast to play.

 

I agree a shortened CD on kolto would be nice.

[Raansu]

As much as I'd love for RP/SS to hit like a truck it is still just a filler ability. Maybe they could add another effect in with Charged Gauntlets [Combat Tactics]?

 

• RP/SS electrifies/burns the target for X damage over 6 seconds
  
• Rail Shot/HIB refreshes your bleed effect on the target
  
• RP/SS leaves the target bewildered, lowering their damage dealt by 10% for 10 seconds
  
• Rail Shot/HIB now applies trauma to the target, lowering healing received
  
• You can use RP/SS from 10m
  

 

Just some ideas

 

Back in the day it did hit like a truck. It's been slowly nerfed over time.

[DarthOvertone]

The question is how well does AP/Tactics parse in PvE?

 

The answer to that question will determine whether AP/Tactics gets some extra deeps Dev love. If it comes up short on the PvE parse, love is certainly on the way.

 

BW doesn't give a flying eff about AP/Tactics in PvP. No amount of data you provide would make a difference, which is good since nobody is providing any data whatsoever to back AP/Tactics' deficiencies. heh

[helpmewin]

The question is how well does AP/Tactics parse in PvE?

 

The answer to that question will determine whether AP/Tactics gets some extra deeps Dev love. If it comes up short on the PvE parse, love is certainly on the way.

 

BW doesn't give a flying eff about AP/Tactics in PvP. No amount of data you provide would make a difference, which is good since nobody is providing any data whatsoever to back AP/Tactics' deficiencies. heh

 

Mb cause almost nobody playing AP in PvE, cause Pyro always was better? And mb its PvP forum?

Edited July 7, 2014 by helpmewin

[helpmewin]

Problems with sustained started when combat team gives +30% crit dmg from Ion pulse to Assault spec. 30% gut crit not safe the situation. In survivability we need usefull SH and mitigation.

My suggestion in Tactics tree with HEC:

reduce CD SS from 9 to 6 sec.

reduce CD FP from 15 to 12 sec with bleed effect.

Reduce Pulse Generaator effect - from +20% to +12-15% each stack.

Blaster augs - +15% top speed while HEC is active and +2% to all DMG.

Battlefield training new effect - while hold the line is active with HEC increase ur defence chance by X %.

Shock absorbers - add new effect adrenalin rush CD reduced by 1- 1.5 minute(s) and can be used at any % while HEC is active.

Mb im wrong but this is my vision.

Edited July 7, 2014 by helpmewin

[Brunner_Venda]

Problems with sustained started when combat team gives +30% crit dmg from Ion pulse to Assault spec. 30% gut crit not safe the situation. In survivability we need usefull SH and mitigation.

My suggestion in Tactics tree with HEC:

reduce CD SS from 9 to 6 sec.

reduce CD FP from 15 to 12 sec with bleed effect.

Reduce Pulse Generaator effect - from +20% to +12-15% each stack.

Blaster augs - +15% top speed while HEC is active and +2% to all DMG.

Battlefield training new effect - while hold the line is active with HEC increase ur defence chance by X %.

Shock absorbers - add new effect adrenalin rush CD reduced by 1- 1.5 minute(s) and can be used at any % while HEC is active.

Mb im wrong but this is my vision.

 

I can't disagree with this, it would nerf the AOE cleave slightly and give the class some single target utility and defense in exchange.