Seriously: Who was the genius who put gunships in this game?

[arkanone]

I have some fond memories of the X-wing and Tie Fighter games. You had a few objectives to complete and a whole lot of dogfigting.

 

But this...game(putting it nicely) is nothing but getting hit by railshots and ion shots while you're trying to dogfight.

 

Why?

 

The Star Wars movies were heavily influenced by the dogfight action of World War II. There were no sniper gunships that zip away faster than a scout ship as soon as anybody had the audacity to engage them. Outside of the DEATH STAR there was no one-shotting of any craft in Star Wars. There was no auto-aim ability for anybody.

 

I'm just asking: why take something so good that alot of fans are fond of and screw it up so completely?

[Zoom_VI]

Yes, space sniper in dogfighting game, makes little sense.

 

On the other hand the fact that bombers counter the interceptors and the interceptors counter the fighters, doesn't make sense either. (IRL and in pretty much every other game, it works opposite.)

 

GSF doesn't make sense

 

Deal with it.

[Ryuku-sama]

Yes, space sniper in dogfighting game, makes little sense.

 

On the other hand the fact that bombers counter the interceptors and the interceptors counter the fighters, doesn't make sense either. (IRL and in pretty much every other game, it works opposite.)

 

GSF doesn't make sense

 

Deal with it.

 

Wait... Fighters are countered by interceptors?? Talk to my StarGuard. Interceptors are countered by bombers?? Talk to any quad'n'pod or my sportscar.

 

On the matter. Gunships make no sense? Maybe. Are they harming the game? No. Are they hard to deal with? No. Are they easy to kill? Yes. There is two gunships I fear to fight in 1vs1. Alex and Aimbot. There is a lot of cattlescout I fear tho. Stasie, Ceru, Nemmy and it goes on.

 

If you can't deal with gunships, it's either a L2P issue or a n00b issue. Both are resolved by actually learning to play (n00bs need to buy themselves a brain before tho).

[Nemarus]

I think Gunships add depth in battles between experienced premades on voice.

 

I think Gunships are absolutely terrible to throw individual or non-expert pilots against. I do believe they are one of the major reasons GSF never took off.

 

Having ships that fire from long range? Sure... if they didn't do enough damage (that comes without warning from across the map) to cripple or heavily damage most ships in one shot.

 

And when they fly in formation and cover each other? It removes the possibility of dogfighting and pursuit entirely.

[dancezwithnubz]

I've come to like the addition of Gunships in this sort of game.

They add an extra dimension to combat.

[Nemarus]

I've come to like the addition of Gunships in this sort of game.

They add an extra dimension to combat.

 

That would be great if they didn't also contribute to killing the experience of potential new GSF players.

 

I'd rather have extra players, that would justify more game type and map development, than extra depth for a small minority who still play.

 

But Gunships and Bombers are just way too hard for new pilots to deal with, especially when they are stuck in very poor loadouts of T1 Scout and Strike.

[Verain]

But this...game(putting it nicely) is nothing but getting hit by railshots and ion shots while you're trying to dogfight.

 

Why?

 

Because I have good aim.

 

I'm just asking: why take something so good that alot of fans are fond of and screw it up so completely?

 

IMO gunships are a rousing success.

 

 

That would be great if they didn't also contribute to killing the experience of potential new GSF players.

 

New players will lose and whine about anything at all. Railguns are just a perennial favorite. Certainly, the graphical representation of the railgun- specifically, a trail would be fantastic to leave in the air, and don't start talking about a spartan laser terrible whatever- could use some work.

 

 

But Gunships and Bombers are just way too hard for new pilots to deal with, especially when they are stuck in very poor loadouts of T1 Scout and Strike.

 

I think every player should start with a gunship and a bomber. I think it would really help a lot with the game's approachability.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Verain

[Devrius]

I think GSs are one of the reason GSF will never take off and new players quit in a hurry.

 

Nothing says: "FU newb!" more then getting killed by something you never saw, at least with T2 scouts you know who and how he got you but GS? When you start the game, you try to learn to fly, aim lasers, lock-n missiles and evade fire, oh and keep and eye out for the snipers wayyyy out of your range that will one-shoot you while you try to dogfight.

 

GS are the snipers of GSF, as in that one class everyone falls back on in Counter Strike like online games when the enemy is a better player then you are.

 

This a classic scenario on PoT5 and Harbringer as of late: "Oh noes, they have a 10 point lead in TDM, okay half the team grab a GS and just park yourself next to the bombers and slowly advance, once we get the lead we park ourselves near a wall and kill them as they try to close in to fight back! Since we are already in position even if they grab GSs of their own we'll still win!" And nine out of 10 times, the team that does that wins...

 

 

GSF has nothing to do with WWII dog-fighting unlike what the devs will tell you, it has much more to do with Team Fortress and Counter Strike then a real WWII plane game like War Thunder.

 

GS are a dumb idea, it like someone looked at GSF as said to himself: "You know how Strikes/Scouts/Bombers basically fight in melee range with knives/swords/lances and traps? Lets add a class that uses a scoped sniper rifle that is easier to aim then the melee weapons and can score kills from several times the other effective rnage!"

[AceFirstCav]

On the matter. Gunships make no sense? Maybe. Are they harming the game?

YES, they are. Very few players is interested in to the be shot down during dogfight by someone staying out of fight. Lots of matches is turning last time from fun of the Strike/Scout dogfight to boring static war of GS and bombers because of their stacking.

Are they hard to deal with? Are they easy to kill?

In match of two equal teams is GS hard to deal and hard to kill. Protected by other ship with lots of time to run back. GSF is not 1vs1 game.

If you can't deal with gunships, it's either a L2P issue or a n00b issue. Both are resolved by actually learning to play (n00bs need to buy themselves a brain before tho).

Yep, if you would bring plane with AMRAAM (guided missile) to WWII fighter game and other complains, it would be because they are noobs and without brain on top of that

 

New players will lose and whine about anything at all. Railguns are just a perennial favorite. Certainly, the graphical representation of the railgun- specifically, a trail would be fantastic to leave in the air, and don't start talking about a spartan laser terrible whatever- could use some work.

New players probably expect same space fights as they are in SW movies/serials. Dogfights on close range, not playing targets for GS standing completly out of range of any weapon in game (except another GS). Dogfighting and shooting ducks are two different things and people whine about that of course.

I think every player should start with a gunship and a bomber. I think it would really help a lot with the game's approachability.

Yes, that would nicely help to kill GSF. You can choose between very exciting farting mines on satelites and shooting pigeons, exactly as you saw in the SW movies. That is so much fun, that you don´t need to play it anymore.

[Slivovidze]

Even though I have learned to deal with gunships, I still consider them friggin fun-killers that require half the skill to use.

 

Hell, I equipped my Comet Breaker to my loadout just for lulz and whenever I take it out it just kills everything without me even trying. And I am usually bad at sniping. Now it is hard for me to imagine what difficulties do those "awesome" shipers with their Quarrels and Manglers have? Playing that must be killing fun not only for everyone around, but also for them!

[Ryuku-sama]

YES, they are. Very few players is interested in to the be shot down during dogfight by someone staying out of fight. Lots of matches is turning last time from fun of the Strike/Scout dogfight to boring static war of GS and bombers because of their stacking.

 

And when GS think there is only GS on the other side, it's time you hope in a sportscar and go wreck them. Tactics.

 

In match of two equal teams is GS hard to deal and hard to kill. Protected by other ship with lots of time to run back. GSF is not 1vs1 game.

 

Sure, you can't go after them in your slow bomber without being murdered by the other team. Hop in a scout with good booster (ideally T1 with StE Converter + TT + LLC + pods) and counter them. One scout for one gunship. Everyone attack at the same time..... But sure coordinating thing is really hard for the standard PUG. Games should cater to the lowest IQ people. Sure :rolleyes:

 

Yep, if you would bring plane with AMRAAM (guided missile) to WWII fighter game and other complains, it would be because they are noobs and without brain on top of that

 

You know WWII dogfighting had no guided missiles. GSF had many of them. So just by seeing a strike, anyone should understand how far GSF is from WWII. First generations guided missiles dates from the early '50s.

 

New players probably expect same space fights as they are in SW movies/serials. Dogfights on close range, not playing targets for GS standing completly out of range of any weapon in game (except another GS). Dogfighting and shooting ducks are two different things and people whine about that of course.

 

You wanna kill this gunship on your scout. Than bring the fight to him.

 

Yes, that would nicely help to kill GSF. You can choose between very exciting farting mines on satelites and shooting pigeons, exactly as you saw in the SW movies. That is so much fun, that you don´t need to play it anymore.

 

In fact it would help smart people bothering to check other ships capacities prior to flying their first match to understand what they are getting into. Unfortunately few does that without someone telling them to do it.

[AceFirstCav]

And when GS think there is only GS on the other side, it's time you hope in a sportscar and go wreck them. Tactics.

GS is usually standing in front line and enemi strikes, scouts and bombers are not around. You are probably playing some different game Once again for you, GS in 1vs1 is NOT problem, but GSF is NOT 1vs1 game.

Sure, you can't go after them in your slow bomber without being murdered by the other team. Hop in a scout with good booster (ideally T1 with StE Converter + TT + LLC + pods) and counter them. One scout for one gunship. Everyone attack at the same time..... But sure coordinating thing is really hard for the standard PUG. Games should cater to the lowest IQ people. Sure :rolleyes:

So requirement for this game is supposed to be full VOIP team? It is sidegame for MMORPG, not standalone simulator. Also what is the connection between VOIP coordination and IQ?

You know WWII dogfighting had no guided missiles. GSF had many of them. So just by seeing a strike, anyone should understand how far GSF is from WWII. First generations guided missiles dates from the early '50s.

You don´t understand comparison too much. Missiles have every ship in game (take it as machinegun for WWII) and you need to lock them = warning for target. You can dodge it or try to fly away before complete lock. Slug/Ion gun hit without warning from distance unreachable for any ship in GSF (thus guided missile vs machinegun). If you want precise comparison, we can use Vietnam war. Combination of guided missiles and machine guns, but still no sniper plane . Anyone (even someone so smart like you) should understand that sniper ship thrown in to the dogfighters will cause great disturbance in the Force.

You wanna kill this gunship on your scout. Than bring the fight to him.

In your imagenary world of 1vs1 fights.

In fact it would help smart people bothering to check other ships capacities prior to flying their first match to understand what they are getting into. Unfortunately few does that without someone telling them to do it.

Thats not about understanding, GSF is game and most people play games for fun.

Most people are set like this:

Dogfighting = FUN

Sniping/Bombing = hunt for great Kill/Death ratio

[havokhead]

I have to admit, I do like playing gunships, they're ambush/gank style can be a welcome change of pace like jumping on a sniper in battlefield. HOWEVER, having said that I do realize that a good gunship in good hands can devastate the opposition and so I had taken it off my bar for a long while. But I've recently taken it out of retirement and here's why....BOMBERS!! The gunship is the only "real" hard-counter to bombers, especially in a pug game with no tactics or coordination. Gunships give you the best chance to deal with sat-Humpers AND survive on your own which is essential in pug games where you get little support. Bombers, more so than gunships have the potential to dominate (I don't say ruin) matches. But here's the thing, everything in GSF has a counter, bombers clear areas of scouts & strikes, gunships clear out bombers & scouts clear out gunships. The game works as intended, it's the players who aren't working in the game. So yes, gunship is back on my bar BUT I am not using it to blow away noobs, I don't delight in others bad experience in games. But the worst thing you can do in GSF is leave bombers & gunships & cattlescouts alone. These ships in the right hands, left unchecked will, of course, dominate. Harass! Harrass!! HARASS!!! GSF is not x-wing vrs tie fighter! It's not about exclusively dog-fighting, it's about tactics & countering and aquiring more ships & components to be a better team player. If, GSF was exclusively a dog-fighting game with only 2 or 3 ships players would be crying that it's boring, repetitive and everyone would stop playing.

 

As long as there's bombers willing to dig-in the nooks and crannies of satellites spamming drones and mines to do their dirty work while they sit back cackling then my gunship will be on my bar ready to deal with that. I'm not about to let bombers have their way. Just like if a notice a gunship dominating a match then I'll jump in my flashfire or pike to counter that. It's what this game is about, if you just want to fly 1 type of ship all the time and expect to dog-fight then I suggest just playing once a week, Mondays during strike night. If you hate gunships so much then roll a flashfire or sting, grit your teeth and go hunting. You're welcome to hunt me down as I'm hunting bombers down. But don't come on these forums crying that a gunship no one bothered to chase down all match scored 20 kills of which you were 5. Just like I'm not gonna cry when I see 2, 3 or 4 bombers come out from opponents 'cause then my gunship is coming out. If I can clear satellites I will, if I tag some poor other ships who enter my crosshairs along the way then I'd be stupid not to pull the trigger but if I'm dominating the match then it's not my problem, it's yours. Come get me.

 

-J'exx (republic privateer) 55 'slinger THE Ebon Hawk

-Stalker (imperial Intellegence) 36 agent THE Ebon Hawk

Edited June 29, 2014 by havokhead

[Ryuku-sama]

GS is usually standing in front line and enemi strikes, scouts and bombers are not around. You are probably playing some different game Once again for you, GS in 1vs1 is NOT problem, but GSF is NOT 1vs1 game.

 

Cause you can't sneak up on them... Sad. it only takes coordination. Which is hard to get in a PUG but I'll explain that latter 1 pilot jump in a sportscar and fly in the middle of the ennemy. If they have a bomber around, pop EMP. If there is only GS, pop EMP too. If there is only GS spread around (not in a ball) takes as many scout as there is gunships and kill them.

 

So requirement for this game is supposed to be full VOIP team? It is sidegame for MMORPG, not standalone simulator. Also what is the connection between VOIP coordination and IQ?

 

I guess chat communication is really hard when you,re starring at your spawn screen. Exactly what I said, cause people think that coordinated team is possible only through voice chat. Cater to the lowest IQ..... /facepalm.

 

You don´t understand comparison too much. Missiles have every ship in game (take it as machinegun for WWII) and you need to lock them = warning for target. You can dodge it or try to fly away before complete lock. Slug/Ion gun hit without warning from distance unreachable for any ship in GSF (thus guided missile vs machinegun). If you want precise comparison, we can use Vietnam war. Combination of guided missiles and machine guns, but still no sniper plane . Anyone (even someone so smart like you) should understand that sniper ship thrown in to the dogfighters will cause great disturbance in the Force.

 

If you fly in straigth line, like an idiot, you're dead. True. Learn to move, to boost, to kill and you'll see most gunship can't hit you easily. And if they do hit you, and you aren't piloting an evasion stacking scout or an QC scout, you'll survive the hit. After that you only have to learn to fly evasive. And to LoS the gunship ASAP. That is, if you don't fight back, which can lead to many kills.

 

In your imagenary world of 1vs1 fights.

 

Scout are doing a huge number of 1vs1. Boost to a target, kill it ASAP, boost to the next. And good hit'n'fade build can do this with 5 imp on their tail easily. If your team is willing to read chat.. then coordinate a charge toward the gunships position. Again we come back to how PUG can't coordinat in chat. For god sake, this is a problem in every single PvP MMO. And even in PvE sometime. So, because you can't coordinate, you ask the dev to cater to this inability. Do you ask devs to make every boss in PvE soloable, or to make every class godmode in PvP? Surely not. The same is applicable here. If you can't coordinate, you can't win.

 

Thats not about understanding, GSF is game and most people play games for fun.

Most people are set like this:

Cause the majority is always right.

Dogfighting = FUN

True.

Sniping/Bombing = hunt for great Kill/Death ratio

False. Getting a high K/D is easier on a scout, so while dogfighting, then on a gunship or a bomber.

[arkanone]

I think GSs are one of the reason GSF will never take off and new players quit in a hurry.

 

Nothing says: "FU newb!" more then getting killed by something you never saw, at least with T2 scouts you know who and how he got you but GS? When you start the game, you try to learn to fly, aim lasers, lock-n missiles and evade fire, oh and keep and eye out for the snipers wayyyy out of your range that will one-shoot you while you try to dogfight.

 

 

Yeah it's enough to make me keep an eye out for a GOOD space combat sim because this isn't it. Really all GSF needs is to throw the gunships in the trash can where they belong.

[MystbladeWA]

I do honestly think that this game mode would have been far more successful if the Gunships were never introduced.

 

Its impossible to say now, and really any and all opinions on the matter are prejudiced by our experiences in the game with Gunships being a constant, and defining factor.

 

But if we can try to divorce ourselves from that and isolate those few matches that we have all experienced at some point that have not had a single gunship in them, i think that the majority of people would say that this is the type of match that they would like to see more of.

 

Again, this almost certainly is due to the frustrations involved around people wanting to dogfight and pew-pew in a x-wing vs tie fighter style fashion (a completely legit, and 100% shared desire), only to be ion'd in 1 second and atomized by a Slug shot from nowhere the next.

 

Its never been conducive to drawing in new players who just want to joust in space, and those who stick with it and learn the mechanics (and value of the Gunship), will inevitably make use of the ship.

 

For me, its always seemed like its the ship that teams sheepishly switch to if they are in danger of losing to people who dogfight better than them. I don't begrudge the ships existence, i have all versions of it (barring a few upgrades of the latest iteration) mastered.

 

But, if it had never been introduced in the first place, i really think that the meta would have evolved in a better fashion, and if they removed them from the ship list (pigs flying, and all that) , I wouldnt really be upset at all.

[AceFirstCav]

If, GSF was exclusively a dog-fighting game with only 2 or 3 ships players would be crying that it's boring, repetitive and everyone would stop playing.

You know that all Strikes and Scouts are not same ships and therefore not repetetive?

But don't come on these forums crying that a gunship no one bothered to chase down all match scored 20 kills of which you were 5.

Here you are talking about yourself or where you saw this?

You are basicly saying that when your neighbor is bothering you with loud music (bomber), correct solution is to play your own music just louder (Gunship).

 

So much text for saying that really smart guys (like you) flying with coordinated group, while idiots are flying with uncoordinated group. Gratz. You have discovered easy test to determine IQ The fact that GS is unsuitable ship for game based on the SW remain. Just because sniper class is so popular in all shooting game, it must not be everywhere (or at least limited).

Cause the majority is always right. .

No, it is because you need some people to play with

False. Getting a high K/D is easier on a scout, so while dogfighting, then on a gunship or a bomber.

False. If you want to go easy way, GS or bomber are right way. With Strike or Scout you must fly in to the battle, which is a bit dangerous. With GS you stay out of battle and even if you are bad shooter, you are at least relatively safe. With bomber you have massive hull/shield and AI will take care of killing. You just need sometimes relese mine/drone. And if you really good, it doesn´t matter which ship you are using

[Ryuku-sama]

So much text for saying that really smart guys (like you) flying with coordinated group, while idiots are flying with uncoordinated group. Gratz. You have discovered easy test to determine IQ The fact that GS is unsuitable ship for game based on the SW remain. Just because sniper class is so popular in all shooting game, it must not be everywhere (or at least limited).

 

Match played 1 hour ago on TEH. Enemy teams fielding 3 Manglers, 1 Jurgoran, 2-3 Bombers. We fielded 1 Condor, 1 Quarrel, 1 Warcarrier, 1 Sledgehammer and a whole lot of scout/strike. Enemy teams had 4 good pilots I respect and 2 aces (1 GS only ace and 1 all around ace). My team had 2 good pilots I respect 1 ace and myself. Guess who won? Us. Why? Cause we coordinated through chat and people did listen. Sadly I have no video of it to prove my point.

True GS isn't really SW-lore. But it isn't exactly against it too. Slug Cannon, Mines and Railguns are all existing weaponry in SW lore. The mistake BW made is in the use of 'Gunship' and 'Bomber' terms themselves.

 

No, it is because you need some people to play with

 

So the standard "Nerf Premade" whining. You should go away from it or you'll seal your reputation here. Anti-premade aren't that interresting to argue with. I have seen PUG beat ace premade if they bother to coordinat in chat.

 

False. If you want to go easy way, GS or bomber are right way. With Strike or Scout you must fly in to the battle, which is a bit dangerous. With GS you stay out of battle and even if you are bad shooter, you are at least relatively safe. With bomber you have massive hull/shield and AI will take care of killing. You just need sometimes relese mine/drone. And if you really good, it doesn´t matter which ship you are using

 

Talk to an evasion scout fielding BLC+BO or quad'n'pod. Those builds are even more deadly than a gunship or a bomber and, against newbies, can score even higher kill count.

[Camelpockets]

All it takes to bring down a bomber/GS premade is a team where one person pisses them off, then the rest of the team plays objectively. I've seen and done it multiple times on the Harbinger.

 

Don't underestimate EMP Burst

Edited June 29, 2014 by Camelpockets

[Ryuku-sama]

All it takes to bring down a bomber/GS premade is a team where one person pisses them off, then the rest of the team plays objectively. I've seen and done it multiple times on the Harbinger.

 

Don't underestimate EMP Burst

 

You understand what teamplay means my friend

[AceFirstCav]

Match played 1 hour ago on TEH. Enemy teams fielding 3 Manglers, 1 Jurgoran, 2-3 Bombers. We fielded 1 Condor, 1 Quarrel, 1 Warcarrier, 1 Sledgehammer and a whole lot of scout/strike. Enemy teams had 4 good pilots I respect and 2 aces (1 GS only ace and 1 all around ace). My team had 2 good pilots I respect 1 ace and myself. Guess who won? Us. Why? Cause we coordinated through chat and people did listen. Sadly I have no video of it to prove my point.

Gratz for that. Games like that are usually decided even before start. Question is how many times you are able to repeat victory of strike/scouts over GS/bombers? I have saw repetitive coordinated (or they at least seems to me like coordinated) attacks of scouts/strikes totally crushed by wall of mines/drones backuped by GS. As a match it was probably wasting of time for both sides. No fun. Lots of matches is turning in to the race of stacking GS or bombers.

True GS isn't really SW-lore. But it isn't exactly against it too. Slug Cannon, Mines and Railguns are all existing weaponry in SW lore. The mistake BW made is in the use of 'Gunship' and 'Bomber' terms themselves.

Slug and rail gun seems much more like personal weapons. But it is nice that they used some existing names for weapons. All space battles in SW are on close range. That makes them interesting. Otehrwise they should just set any cruiser to jump from hyperspace directly in to the enemi planet. Why bother with building Death Star.

So the standard "Nerf Premade" whining. You should go away from it or you'll seal your reputation here. Anti-premade aren't that interresting to argue with. I have seen PUG beat ace premade if they bother to coordinat in chat.

Discussion was about all players so...what are you talking about? But now when I know that you decide about my reputation here, I will be more carefull.

Also there is hardly any way to nerf premade. Premade can form independently on the game (just with lower chance to be together in the match). Maybe if BW track their IP and sent some killer droids...

Talk to an evasion scout fielding BLC+BO or quad'n'pod. Those builds are even more deadly than a gunship or a bomber and, against newbies, can score even higher kill count.

Yes, if you know what to do. If you don´t know what to do (or want relax during game) but you still want a nice (or at least positive) score, take GS or bomber.

[Ryuku-sama]

Gratz for that. Games like that are usually decided even before start. Question is how many times you are able to repeat victory of strike/scouts over GS/bombers? I have saw repetitive coordinated (or they at least seems to me like coordinated) attacks of scouts/strikes totally crushed by wall of mines/drones backuped by GS. As a match it was probably wasting of time for both sides. No fun. Lots of matches is turning in to the race of stacking GS or bombers.

 

Happens often enough. Not as much as I'd like tho. But it happens.

 

Slug and rail gun seems much more like personal weapons. But it is nice that they used some existing names for weapons. All space battles in SW are on close range. That makes them interesting. Otehrwise they should just set any cruiser to jump from hyperspace directly in to the enemi planet. Why bother with building Death Star.

 

Slug cannon are stated to be build in all kind of size, going up to planetary defense (which is far much bigger than what we find on a ship.

 

EDIT : Planetary defense can protect from most weaponry. Taris got destroyed by a single destroyer. It wasn't anymore possible when Death Star was thought (by Palpatine master).

And battle between cruiser happens at huge distance normally. Remember the tactic Admiral Ackbar used in RotJ?? Closing on imp destroyer?? He said it wasn't an usual strategy. But then RotS wrecked everything by having battle cruiser fighting in very close range.

 

Discussion was about all players so...what are you talking about? But now when I know that you decide about my reputation here, I will be more carefull.

 

I just said you were close to become a 'Premade ned a nerf' whiner.

 

Also there is hardly any way to nerf premade. Premade can form independently on the game (just with lower chance to be together in the match). Maybe if BW track their IP and sent some killer droids...

 

Nice idea. It would work

 

Yes, if you know what to do. If you don´t know what to do (or want relax during game) but you still want a nice (or at least positive) score, take GS or bomber.

 

If the opposing team know whaat to do, being in a gunsheep is more stressing than being in a cattlescout. But it's mostly true on a bomber... If you're not focused by a gunship.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Ryuku-sama

[Luneward]

This thread really isn't productive. Ok. Gunships aren't fair against newbies. We get it. Maybe it would have been better to make a dogfighting game instead. We know this. Doesn't change the fact it won't change. When you get down to it, bombers are far more unfair since they require less skill to either be effective, or are harder to kill than a newbie gunship pilot. We have to face it that they aren't going away.

 

So instead of whining about it, we need to suggest ways to make these classes more fair and in line with the other ships. For example a lot of people have suggested railguns have a faster charge time but less damage per shot. They actually have a much higher TTK than even a lot of strike fighters, but since the damage is all front loaded before you even necessarily know it is there it has a much more unpleasant psychological effect.

 

We know the devs are going to make a balance pass on components. Let's try to find ways to suggest changes that would maintain balance without unfairly crippling a ship in the process.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Luneward

[wishihadaname]

I have to say, I don't fly gunships on principle but I have fought against plenty of good ones, and even more really terrible ones. Here's my take on it. Gunships are a balanced class but one that is not fun to face. When you are defeated by a T2 scout you know you got beat by a better pilot. When a strike crits you with a protorp and atomizes your hull you know you got unlucky. When you fly face first into a fortified bomber nest you know you're an idiot. But a gunship's slug usually comes out of nowhere, while your fighting someone else, and either leaves you smoking or out of energy. You don't get a sense of being out-played, only a sense of getting ganked/cheated/back stabbed. It feels low and dirty. Moreover, if you then try to approach that gunship and as soon as you do he high-tails it back to his carrier rather than dog-fighting you (which he can't, I know) the feeling is even worse. Especially in a strike fighter that can't chase him down.

 

Honestly, I think its pointless to argue about whether this game would be better or not without gunships, they are here and here to stay. What I think does have some merit is looking at a re-design of gunships that achieves the two things that are needed to reduce the frustration of facing them.

1) Removing the sniper aspect of their gameplay

2) Decreasing burst while increasing sustained damage.

 

If I could fully re-design the gunship, I would start with the following:

-Railguns no longer bring you to halt instantly when you scope in. You can no longer scope in the middle of an engine outmaneuver.

-Railguns can now be charged and fired while moving.

-Slug railgun still has 15km range but fires twice as quickly for half the damage and half the power cost. It can zoom.

-Ion railgun no longer scopes, has a range of 10km, same charge up time as now, applies an interdiction effect instead of a power drain (still screws shields though).

-Plasma railgun completely removed and replaced with gatling laser.

-Gatling laser: 7km range, spin up time equal to the charge time of a railgun shot. High spread but insane rate of fire. Creates a cone of death for 7km and 5-10% in front of the gunship. Rapidly drains weapon power (you should only be able to spray for about 10s off full weapon power. Reduces turn rate and speed 50% while charging and firing.

-Gunships now have higher boosting cost and lower engine speeds.

-To compensate gunships get best in game base shield strength.

-Fortress shield no longer makes you come to a standstill but instead drains your weapons/engine power by 25 each when activated. Cannot be activated with less than 25 energy in each pool.

 

Specific ships changes:

T1 Gunship:

-Remove BLC's as a weapon, replace with Quads.

-Remove rapids, replace with LLC.

-Remove distortion field, replace with overcharge shield.

T2 Gunship:

-Replace sensor component with armor component

-Replace directional shields with charged plating

-Add Clusters, Concussions, and EMP's as missile choices

T3 Gunship:

-Replace slug railgun with gatling laser

-Replace EMP's with Concussion missiles

-Replace lasers with quads.

 

 

Basically the idea is to turn gunships from snipers into, well, gunships. Heavily armed and armored but non-agile fighters who can lay deadly sustained damage and take a beating. The focus in a dogfight would be on out lasting your opponent or catching them with your superior firepower as opposed to running away to your carrier.

 

Thoughts?

[Ryuku-sama]

I have to say, I don't fly gunships on principle but I have fought against plenty of good ones, and even more really terrible ones. Here's my take on it. Gunships are a balanced class but one that is not fun to face. When you are defeated by a T2 scout you know you got beat by a better pilot. When a strike crits you with a protorp and atomizes your hull you know you got unlucky. When you fly face first into a fortified bomber nest you know you're an idiot. But a gunship's slug usually comes out of nowhere, while your fighting someone else, and either leaves you smoking or out of energy. You don't get a sense of being out-played, only a sense of getting ganked/cheated/back stabbed. It feels low and dirty. Moreover, if you then try to approach that gunship and as soon as you do he high-tails it back to his carrier rather than dog-fighting you (which he can't, I know) the feeling is even worse. Especially in a strike fighter that can't chase him down.

 

Honestly, I think its pointless to argue about whether this game would be better or not without gunships, they are here and here to stay. What I think does have some merit is looking at a re-design of gunships that achieves the two things that are needed to reduce the frustration of facing them.

1) Removing the sniper aspect of their gameplay

2) Decreasing burst while increasing sustained damage.

 

If I could fully re-design the gunship, I would start with the following:

-Railguns no longer bring you to halt instantly when you scope in. You can no longer scope in the middle of an engine outmaneuver.

-Railguns can now be charged and fired while moving.

-Slug railgun still has 15km range but fires twice as quickly for half the damage and half the power cost. It can zoom.

-Ion railgun no longer scopes, has a range of 10km, same charge up time as now, applies an interdiction effect instead of a power drain (still screws shields though).

-Plasma railgun completely removed and replaced with gatling laser.

-Gatling laser: 7km range, spin up time equal to the charge time of a railgun shot. High spread but insane rate of fire. Creates a cone of death for 7km and 5-10% in front of the gunship. Rapidly drains weapon power (you should only be able to spray for about 10s off full weapon power. Reduces turn rate and speed 50% while charging and firing.

-Gunships now have higher boosting cost and lower engine speeds.

-To compensate gunships get best in game base shield strength.

-Fortress shield no longer makes you come to a standstill but instead drains your weapons/engine power by 25 each when activated. Cannot be activated with less than 25 energy in each pool.

 

Specific ships changes:

T1 Gunship:

-Remove BLC's as a weapon, replace with Quads.

-Remove rapids, replace with LLC.

-Remove distortion field, replace with overcharge shield.

T2 Gunship:

-Replace sensor component with armor component

-Replace directional shields with charged plating

-Add Clusters, Concussions, and EMP's as missile choices

T3 Gunship:

-Replace slug railgun with gatling laser

-Replace EMP's with Concussion missiles

-Replace lasers with quads.

 

 

Basically the idea is to turn gunships from snipers into, well, gunships. Heavily armed and armored but non-agile fighters who can lay deadly sustained damage and take a beating. The focus in a dogfight would be on out lasting your opponent or catching them with your superior firepower as opposed to running away to your carrier.

 

Thoughts?

 

Interresting, but improbable. Redisgning the class would raise too much whining. except if they give back all our invested req back, on a fleet req form.