Levelling a Tank - Compared to DPS?

[aeterno]

Imho leveling as a tank doesn't really have much practical value.

 

It's slower yet you don't really develop the tanking requisite skillsets. Out of 55 levels you really don't get anything you couldn't pick up in 2 flashpoint runs at 55. Both don't prepare you nearly as well as reading a short guide will.

 

My advice would be to quest as AOE dps and respec into a tank for any flashpoints you do and then permanently switch at max level where you'll truly be tested in a tanking role for the first time. It'll be your will to delve into the mechanics and class specifics at that stage that determine if you'll be a good tank or not, not the 1-54 snoozefest you pile on yourself by tanking mobs for your single companion. Any advantage you get by doing that is minimal at best and more than made up in the time you save by say 1 shotting mobs as a rage jugg as opposed to spending a minute watching your companion take them out.

Edited June 23, 2014 by aeterno

[Darkelefantos]

M1-4X being voiced by the godly Tom Kane grants him an additional boost to weapon damage.

 

True story.

 

It's believable. The VA for M1 is really godly, especially when combined with his goofy lines

[Halinalle]

I know that, the list was general observations from having levelled up Tanks, Healers and DPS. Also why I mentioned it applied to the stealth spec for them not the tanking spec.

TBH having levelled up two characters (powertech and guardian) in tanking mode I couldn't and still can't face the prospect of levelling up any others in tank spec.

DPS all the way for levelling and then hone your role specific skills once you hit endgame and start the gear grind.

 

Well, you didn't mention "stealth spec" just "stealth". Assassin/Shadow tanks use stealth to get their Dark/Shadow Protection buff (4% DR).

 

M1-4X is best droid in the game if we ignore RE-M0 (that anti-imp attitude is priceless).

 

It's slower yet you don't really develop the tanking requisite skillsets. Out of 55 levels you really don't get anything you couldn't pick up in 2 flashpoint runs at 55. Both don't prepare you nearly as well as reading a short guide will.

 

Clearly you haven't leveled as Shadow/Assassin tank. And believe it or not but some of us actually learn things by doing them instead of reading boring guides.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Halinalle

[aeterno]

Clearly you haven't leveled as Shadow/Assassin tank. And believe it or not but some of us actually learn things by doing them instead of reading boring guides.

 

And what do you learn, honestly? To tank stuff for your companion using a limited toolbox? Yea that translates really well into later content. Honestly if you plan on skipping the "boring" part about being a tank and think you can learn it on hoth bonus series I don't want you to tank content for me.

 

During levelling you're more likely to pick up bad habits and a case of overconfidence by the time you get to level 47 points and can arguably start properly learning how to do it - given the fact that is the stage you're finally not missing the most vital parts of the tanking rotation.

Edited June 23, 2014 by aeterno

[Khevar]

During levelling you're more likely to pick up bad habits and a case of overconfidence by the time you get to level 47 points and can arguably start properly learning how to do it - given the fact that is the stage you're finally not missing the most vital parts of the tanking rotation.

It depends on how you level.

 

I stayed at or below level for content, and exclusively used a dps companion. I learned to keep aggro at all times and when to use defensive cooldowns. First time I went into a HM FP at level 50, I was complimented on how smooth the run went as a tank.

 

Not to mention that the priority list was (mostly) feature complete by level 40. For me, this translated into it being second nature by the time I hit 50.

M1-4X being voiced by the godly Tom Kane grants him an additional boost to weapon damage.

 

True story.

Yes! That makes perfect sense.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Khevar

[Anaesha]

My tip for you would be to not be a tank.

 

Until you reach 55 that is.

All tank advanced classes can also spec for DPS. Do that while leveling up and then when you get to end-game, you switch to a tank spec instead.

You'll also have to switch your entire set of gear too (well the mods anyway), but you'd do that anyway by getting end-game gear.

 

TL;DR just play as a DPS spec until lvl 55 then switch to tank spec.

 

I personally don't agree with this method as you won't learn how to properly be a tank by playing as a dps from lvl 1 to 55.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Anaesha

[robertthebard]

Nothing is slower than leveling a healing sage with tharan (in dps stance). I did it for the 1k kills achievement. it was slllllooooow

 

I did it on my Shadow, much easier.

 

I keep hearing/reading how hard/slow it is to level tanks/healers and I keep not seeing it.

 

Shadow tank: Got Nadia, retired everyone else, and rocked through the last 8 levels to 55 so fast that I almost didn't realize I'd done it.

 

Assassin: Bit harder here, but really it was only because I couldn't make up my mind who to run with, and so got all CF'd with comps.

 

Sage: 20 to 55 in a little under 4 days in Healer spec, with Qyzen as tank. Note: That's according to /played.

 

Sorc: Khem as tank until I got Xalek, then Xalek as tank, same basic results as the Sage.

 

Jugg tank: Rocked out, got Jaesa and never looked back. /played says the character is 6 days old.

 

So no, I don't see it.

[wainot-keel]

Leveling as tank is fun and certainly not much slower than doing it with a dps.

 

What makes things slower while leveling are huge traveling times between quests, poor xp rewards from them and such, not the extra 8 seconds you might need to kill some trash.

And unless you're willing, as dps, to lobotomize yourself with KDY, as tank you'll get much faster queues on lowbie flashpoints, which provide quite a bit of xp coupled with the rewards from the daily.

[wainot-keel]

My tip for you would be to not be a tank.

 

Until you reach 55 that is.

All tank advanced classes can also spec for DPS. Do that while leveling up and then when you get to end-game, you switch to a tank spec instead.

You'll also have to switch your entire set of gear too (well the mods anyway), but you'd do that anyway by getting end-game gear.

 

TL;DR just play as a DPS spec until lvl 55 then switch to tank spec.

 

TL;DR

No, bad advice. Play as tank while leveling, then try tanking at 55. It'll be much better

[Sangrar]

I have leveled pure tanks before, it might at most take a bit longer to take out an elite (by like a minute) but generally I still go through about as fast as any of my dps and healer characters, you still earn experience as much as anyone else and get mission rewards as fast as anyone else so thats all that matters.

[BuriDogshin]

During levelling you're more likely to pick up bad habits and a case of overconfidence by the time you get to level 47 points and can arguably start properly learning how to do it - given the fact that is the stage you're finally not missing the most vital parts of the tanking rotation.

 

I tend to agree that most leveling does not teach how to run any class, mainly because most leveling content does not have the long boss fights that require proper resource management and cooldown use. The exception is the non-tactical flashpoints that become available as you level, which FPs also provide parts of the larger story.

 

So I recommend doing FPs as you level to learn your class, and queuing as a tank for them should get you a fast pop. I suggest searching the net for a guide for any FP if you haven't tanked them before, or at least let the other people know it is your first time tanking it and ask for help. Do not assume that because you have DPS'd or healed a FP you know how to tank it -- I sure didn't.

 

Regarding another poster's comments on "boring guides," I have seen too many people who completely mishandle their class, even at endgame, because they never looked at such a guide: Sorc Healers who think Resurgence and Dark Heal are the only single-target heals they need, for example. I myself was guilty of such until I started reading guides, so I understand the cause - the game is not a simple one. If you are leveling your Nth alt, you may not need them, and unfortunately for a leveler they do tend to focus on end-game content and Best-in-Slot gearing, but still there is a lot of value to be gained there; for example, as a low-level Sorc you'll be itching to get Innervate once you understand how the procs work.

[Nkya]

I solo leveled 2 tanks so far

- first was a vanguard. I used the healing companion as soon as avaiable, until I had to change to dps for story reason. then I altered from dps to healer.

- second was an assassin who used whichever companion came last (even tanks but in dps stance) until reaching 1k kills, then swtiched to a DPS companion.

 

There isn't much difference between using a DPS, Tank or healer companion. At the first look, healers companions would seem more comfortable because they heal between the pulls... but a tank don't actually need much healing in quests designed for one man until they reach the quest boss and it's not such an issue to roam there with half of the health down. For the sake of speed, I advise to run with a DPS companion all time. If the damages are too strong, either improve your tanking, either switch to a healer companion.

 

Until level 30, there is little difference between tank and DPS. The gear is pretty much the same until level 40 (albeit, you might prefer endurance over mainstat if you don't play with a healer or you plan to run flashpoints)

 

As far as I recall, my tanks had no issues to solo heroic 2 with any companion. After level 40, they learnt how the class worked by soloing some heroic 4 (typically with a healer companion since a brunch of elites are bashing us in the same time.)

 

The major issue for the vanguard was to skip crowds of weak mobs since tanks and companions are slow to kill things. On the assassin it wasn't even an issue since I could stealth.

Edited June 23, 2014 by Nkya

[psandak]

A tank with healer comp doesn't dps as fast. So killing mobs will be slower. On the other hand you don't have to spend time in between healing yourself up again.

 

This.

 

On an individual or small pack basis yes tank+healer is slower than with any DPS. But over the long haul - because Tank character + healer comp is the "energizer bunny" combo; you keep going and going and going - one rarely to never even has to think about resting which is a huge time saver.

 

I have soloed level appropriate heroic 4 missions with my guardian tank and doc (healer comp).

[Daekarus]

And what do you learn, honestly? To tank stuff for your companion using a limited toolbox? Yea that translates really well into later content. Honestly if you plan on skipping the "boring" part about being a tank and think you can learn it on hoth bonus series I don't want you to tank content for me.

 

During levelling you're more likely to pick up bad habits and a case of overconfidence by the time you get to level 47 points and can arguably start properly learning how to do it - given the fact that is the stage you're finally not missing the most vital parts of the tanking rotation.

 

Funny... I didn't really have much to learn when I hit 50. Maybe you're not naturally inclined to it?

[Halinalle]

During levelling you're more likely to pick up bad habits and a case of overconfidence by the time you get to level 47 points and can arguably start properly learning how to do it - given the fact that is the stage you're finally not missing the most vital parts of the tanking rotation.

 

What will you learn about tanking if you level as DPS? Nothing.

 

Only thing you learn is "KDY tanking" and that's tunnel vision from weakest to strongest.

 

Do you know how much confidence following will give to healer/dps in group:

- Hello, it's my first time tanking!

- Hello. Do you know how to tank?

- Yes, I just read a book about it!

Edited June 23, 2014 by Halinalle

[Daekarus]

What will you learn about tanking if you level as DPS? Nothing.

 

Only thing you learn is "KDY tanking" and that's tunnel vision from weakest to strongest.

 

Do you know how much confidence following will give to healer/dps in group:

- Hello, it's my first time tanking!

- Hello. Do you know how to tank?

- Yes, I just read a book about it!

 

Ick. Please no.

 

I think there is a lot to be said for muscle memory and instincts. If you level as a tank, you're going to be automatically using the tank toolset in your head and in your fingers. I think those opposed to levelling as a tank are confusing learning your class with learning content tweaks. Those that level as a tank are not guaranteed to learn everything the optimized way, but they will have a heck of a head start on someone whose concept of threat is "isn't that a conversation choice?" Besides, I've seen people from every class and every role that have no idea how to play their class right, DPS included. That has nothing to do with tanking.

 

I find it interesting that so many people look at tanking as something "other" and outside the norm, when it is absolutely natural for me - DPS is "other" to me, and tanking is the default.

[aeterno]

What will you learn about tanking if you level as DPS? Nothing.

 

Only thing you learn is "KDY tanking" and that's tunnel vision from weakest to strongest.

 

Do you know how much confidence following will give to healer/dps in group:

- Hello, it's my first time tanking!

- Hello. Do you know how to tank?

- Yes, I just read a book about it!

 

More confidence than "yea I can hold aggro from my companion no problemo!".

 

As someone else mentioned, the way you play gets etched into muscle memory and bad habits get picked up along the way. Bad in a sense when you get a full toolbox you're not doing it the way you did it with half the tools.

 

My point is there are no profound mysteries to the lower half of a tanking tree you'd need 40 hours of practice with. The time you need to figure it out if you swap from dps is the time you'll spend correcting your rotation as tank anyway. So if he's going jugg he might as well go AOE dps spec and start dropping entire packs save the 1 strong mob with 2GDCs every second pull starting from level 30.

 

It's fine if anyone wants or prefers to quest as a tank. Just don't tell the guy that it's not noticeably slower or that he's getting some incredibly valuable insight into the role for when he's max level while he's doing it.

Edited June 23, 2014 by aeterno

[DarthTHC]

Hey Guys,

 

For the first time ever I'm going to roll a Tank!

 

I'm assuming that Levelling will be much slower compared to a DPS, and use of my companion as a DPS will be needed massively... is this the case?

 

Could someone shed some light on being a Tank and how it all works out?

 

Thanks!

 

I've leveled more than one of each tank. I typically used the healer companion, just because it made me well nigh indestructible.

 

Leveling seems faster with damage dealers now, but that's skewed by the presence of KDY and experience boosts, neither of which I had access to when leveling my tanks.

 

If you want to see the scenery - run the quests - you'll do fine as a tank and it shouldn't feel slower. Running flashpoints, especially the non-tactical ones, as a tank is actually faster because queues will pop faster for you.

[Andryah]

I personally don't agree with this method as you won't learn how to properly be a tank by playing as a dps from lvl 1 to 55.

 

IF you have never ever played a tank in an MMO.. yes.

 

IF you are not playing with people you know and trust... ie: running PUGS...yes.

 

But frankly most players who are veteran MMO players have played a tank and know the fundamentals. These folks can easily level as DPS and then shift to tanking as they enter end game.

[wainot-keel]

 

It's fine if anyone wants or prefers to quest as a tank. Just don't tell the guy that it's not noticeably slower or that he's getting some incredibly valuable insight into the role for when he's max level while he's doing it.

 

People are giving their opinions based on their experiencies. Yours maybe are different from others, that's all. I don't se a reason why people shouldn't share this

 

I leveled a jugg, a guardian, a shadow, an assassin and currently playing a powertech, all as tank and I don't feel it's significantly slower than with other roles.

If leveling feels slow it's not because how fast you can dispatch a mob, but rather traveling times, low xp rewards, bad "planing" taking quests, like you do a quest in an area,then move to other, then pick a quest to do in the first area, etc, etc. That sort of thing...

[Daekarus]

People are giving their opinions based on their experiencies. Yours maybe are different from others, that's all. I don't se a reason why people shouldn't share this

 

I leveled a jugg, a guardian, a shadow, an assassin and currently playing a powertech, all as tank and I don't feel it's significantly slower than with other roles.

If leveling feels slow it's not because how fast you can dispatch a mob, but rather traveling times, low xp rewards, bad "planing" taking quests, like you do a quest in an area,then move to other, then pick a quest to do in the first area, etc, etc. That sort of thing...

 

This. Let's be honest here, the thing that takes time levelling is not killing mobs, and the DPS toons I've levelled didn't kill things that much faster because they didn't have a DPS companion out.

 

The difference in levelling time, which is already WAY shorter than at launch, is a few percentage points at most when you factor in travel, healing, etc.

 

People are making mountains out of molehills.

[Halinalle]

More confidence than "yea I can hold aggro from my companion no problemo!".

 

So, you don't even bother learning the SM versions of FPs before you hit 55 and start doing HMs... Sorry, but for some reason I don't like to be in that group.

 

In case you still want to whine about how tanks won't learn to tank until level 45...

Sorry to say this too but many DPS specs get their "correct rotation" at level 45 at minimum.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Halinalle

[Khevar]

Just don't tell the guy that it's not noticeably slower or that he's getting some incredibly valuable insight into the role for when he's max level while he's doing it.

Why do you have a vested interest in making sure that nobody ever tanks until they first set foot in a level 55 HM FP? What could possibly make you think this is the only way to play a tank?

 

The important skills for a tank first hitting end-game include situational awareness and when to use defensive cooldowns. These are things that actually CAN be learned while leveling as a tank, particularly if you tackle more difficult content with a dps companion (e.g. Heroics).

 

Sure, a companion puts out crap dps compared to a real player. So it's not like it's hard to beat their threat. But how about when there are 5 mobs attacking your companion? Holding that threat requires you to use your AOEs, jump around a bit, making sure you hit the other mobs, not just tunnel-vision the silver leading the group. How is this a bad thing?

 

I'm not trying to say that everyone should always level as a tank, or that a player cannot learn to tank by repeccing at 55.

 

I just object to your heavy-handed snobbery trying to convince everyone that leveling as a tank is completely worthless.

As someone else mentioned, the way you play gets etched into muscle memory and bad habits get picked up along the way. Bad in a sense when you get a full toolbox you're not doing it the way you did it with half the tools.

Halinalle makes an excellent point in the post above mine.

 

Have you ever played a level 44 Carnage Mara? How many times do you use Massacre (hint: the answer is ZERO). How about at level 55? 25% of the time, on average.

 

ANY spec that regularly uses its capstone ability has to re-learn to one degree or another. Tanks are no different from dps in this regard.

Edited June 24, 2014 by Khevar

[aeterno]

The guy asked how leveling a tank is compared to dps.

 

I'm bluntly saying that it is by and large a waste of time. I apologise for offending some of you with this generalisation so I'm amending the statement to "its a waste of time for anyone that's able to pick up simple concepts of juggling 2 defensive CDs in a time frame shorter than 30 odd levels". That's just the reality of it. In no way is a DPS player + most likely healer comp "there-there" speed wise compared to a tank PC and most likely DPS companion "because heal downtime". Not by the time you get to the 3rd or 4th planet. You're lying to yourself and the OP.

 

I never said I want him to start tanking in 55HM, that he can learn the ultimate mara rotation at lvl 40 and I dont have an anti tanking agenda lol.

I'm simply trying to give the guy a frank assessment based on the assumption he's asking because a) he values his time b) is a capable individual able to pick up class mechanics without a 50h warm-up spoon feeding session.

Which imo is: you're best served DPSing through quests while respeccing for daily (non tactical) flashpoints as you level up (for faster pops & only genuinely valuable tanking experience pre 50) and after you hit max level, if you plan on tanking, delve into the "boring stuff" of it - because that's what will ultimately make or brake your quality as a tank.

 

If he enjoys tank levelling power to him, power to all of you! Message I'm trying to convey to him is just that his tanking future is by no means massively benefited by doing that.

Edited June 24, 2014 by aeterno

[slafko]

Well, Shadow/Assassin have the highest single target DPS out of all tank classes and HK is the highest DPS companion, so of course it wasn't slow [/Quote]

HK is really bad for a Shadow tank. What you want is Nadia. She obliterates everything and is much easier to gear.

 

 

 

As for leveling a tank being slower than leveling a DPS, think flashpoint queues. One gets a pop almost instantly, the other ends up ranting on the forums while he's stuck in queue.