Why is Bioware so silent about strongholds

[Senrie]

And once again you take sound arguments from developers, EXPLAINING why they don't update the community on a constant basis and try it and turn it into some argument that they actually do? What kind of logic is that? Of course community is important but like they say...it has to be handled properly. You obviously don't get that and want them to just blather on about half finished updates (which is ridiculous).

 

Was it logic? Was it an argument? It was just an observation of reality. Unless you want to disagree that WoW doesn't get constant information(especially compared to TOR), we have nothing to discuss here. Me being right about this doesn't make you wrong, so calm down about it.

 

What it does make you wrong about is the idea that people complaining is a reason to shut down the flow of information. The developers you keep referring to never say that. What they instead say it's a reason to be careful about what you say and manage expectations, which is what I've said.

 

All I'm asking(and didn't even ask at first and you still disagreed with me) is if BioWare is properly striking the balance. You could be reasonable and say that you're happy with the rate of information; could even be magnanimous and say you understand how others might not be.

 

Instead I get: "Welcome to real life. You can't handle my cold hard logic, whiner. DEAL WITH IT."

 

PEOPLE STILL COMPLAIN THEY DON'T COMMUNICATE ENOUGH.

 

People complaining sure is the center of your world.

 

Enjoy your vacation. I'll be here, not complaining, because my precious self hasn't been updated on housing for 5 minutes.

 

Oh thats right... We just got a promotional video because...wait for it...they were ready to release it.

 

Do you know I haven't even once brought up Strongholds? I've only been talking about the idea that they can't show in-development content because people would complain if it changes. But for comparison, here's the kind of information updates Blizzard gives for their player housing, which is twice as far away as Strongholds.

 

So why can WoW do this and TOR can't? You're saying now it's because they're bigger. Maybe that's true, I wouldn't know, and I'm not sure you do either. But that's not the reason we've been disagreeing about which, if what you say is true, would only be amplified because of their size.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Senrie

[DOHboy]

They said 2.8 would be the biggest update so far, FALSE PROMISE.

 

at the time, it wasn't a false promise. But as with all things in life, nothing is certain and things change. So they pushed back some content, moved some release dates, made some changes and poof no longer the "biggest", oh well. We'll still get what we were offered, just not all at once.

 

And you wonder why they are hesitant to give out info when if anything changes, it gets thrown back in their face.

 

[tanerb]

That isn't housing. It is a place with a bank access and a mailbox... that's pretty much it... housing includes loads more features than that.

 

If a game came out and had that and actively marketed it as housing, they'd be laughed at.

 

Totally agree. Game came out and they had marketed what we had as Open world pvp and they were laughed.

[TUXs]

at the time, it wasn't a false promise. But as with all things in life, nothing is certain and things change. So they pushed back some content, moved some release dates, made some changes and poof no longer the "biggest", oh well. We'll still get what we were offered, just not all at once.

 

And you wonder why they are hesitant to give out info when if anything changes, it gets thrown back in their face.

 

I agree with your first statement entirely, but I disagree that it was thrown back in their faces. There are very few people who don't understand the delay and the few people who do complain, aren't necessarily complaining about the delay itself, just the promise of "BIGGEST EVER"...

 

Even had housing gone live as planned, it would still be a far fetched claim that it's the BIGGEST UPDATE EVER...because without housing, it's became an abysmal update that's a anemic as Thursday a or b patch.

[Arkerus]

Was it logic? Was it an argument? It was just an observation of reality. Unless you want to disagree that WoW doesn't get constant information(especially compared to TOR), we have nothing to discuss here. Me being right about this doesn't make you wrong, so calm down about it.

 

What it does make you wrong about is the idea that people complaining is a reason to shut down the flow of information. The developers you keep referring to never say that. What they instead say it's a reason to be careful about what you say and manage expectations, which is what I've said.

 

All I'm asking(and didn't even ask at first and you still disagreed with me) is if BioWare is properly striking the balance. You could be reasonable and say that you're happy with the rate of information; could even be magnanimous and say you understand how others might not be.

 

Instead I get: "Welcome to real life. You can't handle my cold hard logic, whiner. DEAL WITH IT."

 

 

 

People complaining sure is the center of your world.

 

 

 

Do you know I haven't even once brought up Strongholds? I've only been talking about the idea that they can't show in-development content because people would complain if it changes. But for comparison, here's the kind of information updates Blizzard gives for their player housing, which is twice as far away as Strongholds.

 

So why can WoW do this and TOR can't? You're saying now it's because they're bigger. Maybe that's true, I wouldn't know, and I'm not sure you do either. But that's not the reason we've been disagreeing about which, if what you say is true, would only be amplified because of their size.

 

You and I have a fundamental disagreement on how to release information.

 

Managing expectation is another word for "not releasing information because people complain when they don't get a Pony". Do you really not get that? That's why they don't just dump design concepts on us.

 

And stop bringing up WoW's news updates. They have a huge team who all manage different portions of the game. Its the same marketplace but a completely different product. Yes, they get updates more often because they have a much bigger product. What don't you understand about that? You would have to be blatantly ignorant to think WoW's team, PR Dept and project management group is the same size as this team.

 

Bioware isn't dumping information on us...because...they don't have any information to give us.

 

What do you NOT get about that? What is so hard about that to understand? And we aren't going to get previews of unfinished systems because they are...ready...wait for it...managing expectations.

 

See how that works?

[TUXs]

YBioware isn't dumping information on us...because...they don't have any information to give us.

 

Do you sincerely think they don't quite know how the decorating will go yet? You don't think they know how item placement will be handled? You don't think they know how the instancing will work? You don't think they've figured out how chat will be handled? You don't think they figured out these basics yet?

[Infernixx]

Do you sincerely think they don't quite know how the decorating will go yet? You don't think they know how item placement will be handled? You don't think they know how the instancing will work? You don't think they've figured out how chat will be handled? You don't think they figured out these basics yet?

 

They're not ready to release the info yet. Be patient.

[TUXs]

They're not ready to release the info yet. Be patient.

 

I'm not getting worked up about it. Doesn't impact me (personally) one bit what they release or withhold - they only hurt themselves. I'm just commenting on it.

[Senrie]

You and I have a fundamental disagreement on how to release information.

 

Maybe...as I said, I don't think we differ that greatly. It's just been senselessly blown out of proportion.

 

There's no reason for me to stop bringing up WoW if you keep saying things like "That's why they don't just dump design concepts on us" and that "unfinished systems" shouldn't be shown. You say them as if they were absolute rules to managing expectations, but WoW is the easiest example for showing that's not the case.

 

It's not that they don't have any information; of course they do. It's that they don't have any information they want to show us. What's so hard for you to understand I'm questioning whether they can get away with showing more information and still manage expectations?

Edited June 4, 2014 by Senrie

[Infernixx]

I'm not getting worked up about it. Doesn't impact me (personally) one bit what they release or withhold - they only hurt themselves. I'm just commenting on it.

 

I didn't say you were getting worked up. Just that asking for info now is a tad bit impatient.

 

I imagine we'll get more info after the Casino thing goes live next week.

[loversoftwileks]

They're not ready to release the info yet. Be patient.

 

but how are we suposed to troll, did I say troll i mean offer constructive criticism if bioware doesn't give us any info;)

[TUXs]

I didn't say you were getting worked up. Just that asking for info now is a tad bit impatient.

 

I imagine we'll get more info after the Casino thing goes live next week.

I didn't start this thread, I only commented in it.

[Infernixx]

I didn't start this thread, I only commented in it.

 

Right and your comment was impatient.

[BuriDogshin]

You don't think they know how item placement will be handled?

It's possible they do not. Anyone with enough experience in complex software development can tell you that no design emerges intact from contact with the metal. Software does not spring full formed from the minds of the developers, like Athena from the head of Zeus. Things evolve during development; an original concept may prove unworkable once implemented and need to be changed.

[errant_knight]

What exactly are they supposed to be saying? They've told us about it, they've put out videos that look good, useful and interesting. Are they really supposed to hold our hands until it launches or play cheerleader daily? Are we really that deficit of attention or needy?

[JediRelentless]

What exactly are they supposed to be saying? They've told us about it, they've put out videos that look good, useful and interesting. Are they really supposed to hold our hands until it launches or play cheerleader daily? Are we really that deficit of attention or needy?

 

I agree.

[tanerb]

It is possible that they don't say anything because there is nothing to be said other than what you see in the video. I mean I have seen couple videos so far and all of them are basically same. A large apartment with people partying in it and you have some utilities, companions etc..

[ikinai]

What exactly are they supposed to be saying? They've told us about it, they've put out videos that look good, useful and interesting. Are they really supposed to hold our hands until it launches or play cheerleader daily? Are we really that deficit of attention or needy?

 

I play cheerleader daily, but that's neither here nor there I suppose.

[TUXs]

What exactly are they supposed to be saying? They've told us about it, they've put out videos that look good, useful and interesting. Are they really supposed to hold our hands until it launches or play cheerleader daily? Are we really that deficit of attention or needy?

The video yesterday looked the same as the previous one with a new skyline...it didn't detail anything new that I saw. What did you see that was "new"?

 

And no, they don't need to play cheerleader daily, but a bit of hype from them would certainly not hurt things. They seem terribly unenthusiastic.

[tanerb]

The video yesterday looked the same as the previous one with a new skyline...it didn't detail anything new that I saw. What did you see that was "new"?

 

And no, they don't need to play cheerleader daily, but a bit of hype from them would certainly not hurt things. They seem terribly unenthusiastic.

 

Again, that may be because there is nothing to hype. What you see in these videos is what you get.

[Cyberberus]

Maybe because anything they say will be written in stone and pointed to as a "but you promised" when and if it doesn't actually make it due to some program conflict?

 

I am not a game/dev cheerleader by any stretch but as a longtime gamer I wouldn't blame any dev for any game for keeping their yaps shut about details until its a rock solid sure thing, it *always* comes back to bite you in the hindquarters

[TUXs]

Again, that may be because there is nothing to hype. What you see in these videos is what you get.

Possibly. I won't discount their ability to shock me, they've done it before with GSF, Oricon and the way they just kinda dumped DF and DP outta nowhere...but I was really hoping to see item placement and things like that...the virtual walk-through was 'meh'. We need to see why we should be excited about these because right now, they seem rather dull.

[TUXs]

Maybe because anything they say will be written in stone and pointed to as a "but you promised" when and if it doesn't actually make it due to some program conflict?

I don't know what community you came from, but here, the people have been EXTREMELY understanding (and defensive) of delays or withdrawn features. Some have naturally not been, but they're an absolute minority.

[Darth_Wicked]

I don't know what community you came from, but here, the people have been EXTREMELY understanding (and defensive) of delays or withdrawn features. Some have naturally not been, but they're an absolute minority.

 

^^ This.

 

Such has been stated several times before but I'll mention it yet again: That behemoth by the name of World of Warcraft already has its latest expansion named, dated and priced I believe.

 

Makeb was first unveiled on June 2012, almost a full year(!!!) before release.

 

2.8 will be here in less than a week; 2.9 is around the corner and yet...

 

NOT A SINGLE ONE OF US KNOWS ANYTHING ABOUT 3.0. NOTHING.

 

Planet(s)? Zilch. New companion(s)? Zilch. New features? Zilch. New PvP scenarios? New operations? Zilch. New flashpoints? Zilch and so forth, so forth.

 

People can't honestly expect for the above to be considered reasonable, in this day and age. I know it's not the case but it just makes me feel like there's absolutely NOTHING on the horizon or in store, following 2.9.

 

It's an absolute Void, as far as information goes.

Edited June 4, 2014 by Darth_Wicked

[tanerb]

maybe 3.0 is not in the development phase yet (which would be very bad) maybe they will announce swtor 2 (which would be very cool), hence the end of swtor? Not announcing is definitely negative and they must know it. There must be a reason why they are holding it. And it is not that they are afraid people will complain. Edited June 4, 2014 by tanerb