Sage Top 3 Questions - Answered

[Dyvim]

Respectfully, I disagree. There are no Jedi in the lore, who rely so little on the lightsaber. But I thank you for the answer. Please do allow Willpower to affect melee attacks. And consider that proliferating one-two of the animations from Guardians/Juggernauts could do this easily.

 

 

Resorting to lies in order to defend the question? A very good decision

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fay This link proves that it is a lie

 

She was in a comic...one issue...besides, you can find anything in the EU...like jawa jedi, or whatever. I believe Nala's point was focused on the higher order lore of the movies, which everyone has seen and understands...that and the other licensed games, since this is a game. Calling him a liar is over the top and unfounded.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Dyvim

[MillionsKNives]

Now here are some questions for the Sage/Sorcerer community, regarding Noble Sacrifice/Consumption. Do you believe removing the health cost of Noble Sacrifice/Consumption as a PvP set bonus would be something that PvE Sage/Sorcerer healers also feel like they need, or are PvE Sage/Sorcerers happier with their current set bonuses? If it is something that PvE Sages/Sorcerers would rather have as well, then which current PvE set bonus would you want to give up for it? Do you think that having a health-cost-free Noble Sacrifice/Consumption would be too good for PvE? Do you believe it might take away too much of the challenge for healing in PvE situations?

 

I feel that Noble Sacrifice is fine as it is in PvE, and I'm not sure that it would be overall better for the class to remove it. However, I think that the 4-piece PvE set bonus would be the obvious choice to replace if you are to go that route. The Sorcs in my guild don't even bother with the 4-piece bonus unless everyone else has the gear already, because it's perceived to be that useless. While it technically does grant a bonus, it is very underwhelming and doesn't provide a very tangible benefit.

 

Our feeling was that there are many players who want the experience of playing as a Jedi/Sith who relies almost solely on their mastery of the Force to resolve the challenges they face, with the lightsaber serving only as a secondary weapon; these classes were designed with that experience in mind.

 

Of all the abilities, outside of the basic two you get at character creation, I can't think of any abilities that actually incorporate the lightsaber in their animations. For the Sage it's held to the side while your other hand does the actual animation, while on the Sorc it's simply palmed while the animation runs normally. It's rather underwhelming to stand there twirling my lightsaber in my hand while never actually making use of it. I can quite literally unequip my lightsaber and continue use (almost) all of my abilities without penalty (I don't mean stat-wise). This really gives weight to the idea that the lightsaber is nothing more than a stat-stick, and with your admission that you have no plans to change that, only seems to fit that much more.

 

With that in mind, I propose a change that Sorcs and Sages are given the option to not draw their lightsabers in combat, unless an ability that directly uses it is activated. If you want to give the feeling that they don't rely on their lightsabers in combat then truly allow them to not use their lightsabers in combat. This would really reinforce the idea that they only rely on the force to fight.

[Chrisweaver]

PvP - Seer Spec Issues

 

Sage/Sorcerer healers, we hear you and we see that our data validates what you are saying – as it shows you are currently performing behind both Scoundrel/Operative healers and Commando/Mercenary healers in PvP. We do not currently have any plans to share with you on how we intend to improve Sage/Sorcerer healing in PvP, but it is a priority for us, and we would love to hear your own ideas on how you would like Sage/Sorcerer healing to be improved in PvP without also making Sage/Sorcerer healing too good in PvE. We will say in advance that, “make such-and-such ability activate instantly,” is not a solution we are likely to consider (unless it is a temporary buff triggered by something else, and not a permanent reduction of activation time). Our goal is to keep Sage/Sorcerer healing as close as possible to the way it is in PvE, while improving how it performs in PvP.

 

Now here are some questions for the Sage/Sorcerer community, regarding Noble Sacrifice/Consumption. Do you believe removing the health cost of Noble Sacrifice/Consumption as a PvP set bonus would be something that PvE Sage/Sorcerer healers also feel like they need, or are PvE Sage/Sorcerers happier with their current set bonuses? If it is something that PvE Sages/Sorcerers would rather have as well, then which current PvE set bonus would you want to give up for it? Do you think that having a health-cost-free Noble Sacrifice/Consumption would be too good for PvE? Do you believe it might take away too much of the challenge for healing in PvE situations?

 

Please let us know your thoughts about these issues in your replies to this post. We will be listening, and we appreciate your feedback.

 

 

 

Thank you for not telling us to h2f this time! As a long time fan of sorc heals in pvp I would love to have a 4 piece set bonus that takes away the health cost of consumption. If you end up thinking this maybe OP I would even be willing to have a 12 second cd so it cannot be spammed. Either way I can tell you guys are getting the idea now. Hope to see the change before 3.0

[g_land]

Hey folks!

 

We are mostly satisfied with Sage/Sorcerer survivability in Operations. If you are a Sage/Sorcerer that specializes in dealing damage, we do not expect you to use Force Armor/Static Barrier on yourself or others in an Operation. If you find this to not be the case in any given encounter, please feel free to post in the Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions forum, and let the Operations team know specifically which mechanic in which encounter is making you feel like you are required to use Force Armor/Static Barrier on yourself to survive. Also, please note that depending on how you and your healer specialize (if your group has a Sage/Sorcerer healer), your own Force Armor/Static Barrier is likely weaker and more expensive than your Sage/ Sorcerer healer’s Force Armor/Static Barrier. In addition, using your own Force Armor/Static Barrier will lockout your Sage/Sorcerer healer’s stronger and cheaper version of the ability.

 

Usually, damage dealt to the whole Operation group or to random Operation group members is dealt as elemental or internal damage, so that the classes with higher armor values do not have an advantage over classes with lower armor values, like the Sage/Sorcerer. Sometimes, the Operations team will intentionally decide to not make this damage elemental or internal (as is currently the case in the Dread Master Brontes encounter). If you feel that such practices leave the Sage/Sorcerer in a position that is too vulnerable, then please let us know in the Operations forum (linked above) so that we can address the issue.

 

Now with that said, we will definitely consider taking the global cooldown off of Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation, but the global cooldown on Force Armor/Static Barrier is there to stay, since it can be placed on others and we do not expect you to use the ability in Operations if you are a damage dealer.

 

Okay, so according to the devs we shouldn't use force armor and force mend to help with raid wide damage because its on the gcd, seems like every other class gets abilities that allow them to do that which are off the gcd. Sages are simply asking for similar abilities, otherwise they should effectively tell all classes they aren't supposed to use their dcds. So, scoundrel/slingers shouldn't use defense screen/dodge, guardian/sents shouldn't ever touch a whole host of survivability cds, vanguards/commandos should never hit that reactive shield thingamajigger, and shadows get resilience/battle readiness/deflection all of which are off the gcd. These all get used in pve to an extent to help out the healers but you are basically saying sages should have none of those aside from the three minute cd channeled "invulnerable" button which by the way still has the infamous does not work 5% of the time bug and takes us out of the fight for however long the damage is occurring or until we realize its huge effect on our dps.

 

I love the specific example that you chose about the Brontes fight, those orbs with your argument of letting another sage put the bubble on us would be great, if done the split second before contact, but that ignores the pulsing damage they do which will degrade the absorption of that shield. Every other class has an ability to use on those that reduces damage taken for some period of time rather than a flat damage taken, exception being slingers but they can cheese them by rolling through the orbs and taking no damage... If a sage attempts to cheese with force barrier, the orbs merely switch targets!

 

I am not saying these can't be done but to sit there and say we shouldn't use the defensive tools given, and count on someone else to be able to help you out in addition to themselves i.e. sage healer bubbling both you and them, when they are so hopelessly underwhelming in comparison to other classes is terrible. If that is the case, then I would expect some drastic out-parsing of the glass cannon variety but... yeah.

 

I guess at this point all we can do is laugh. I find it impossible to believe that whoever wrote this reply did so with a straight face.

Edited May 28, 2014 by g_land

[Altheran]

We could rather easily make Willpower affect melee attacks for Sages/Sorcerers, but we have no intention to make Sages/Sorcerers use their lightsabers more than they currently do. In terms of lore, the particular attributes that make someone a “Jedi Sage” or a “Sith Sorcerer” vary over the vast timeline of the Star Wars galaxy. And while Yoda and Palpatine were definitely inspirations for these classes, they are never identified by those terms in the films, and it wasn’t our intention to make direct gameplay clones of those characters in any case. Our feeling was that there are many players who want the experience of playing as a Jedi/Sith who relies almost solely on their mastery of the Force to resolve the challenges they face, with the lightsaber serving only as a secondary weapon; these classes were designed with that experience in mind.

 

Let me try to convince you... But please note, I'm not trying to convince you to make Sage/Sorcerer a melee class but trying to convince you that the measure taken since launch (no melee bonus) is unnecessary and potentially harmful to the class.

 

1. You stated that you wanted to avoid situations where counterplay was impossible. That's why you reversed a planned change of Evasion for Snipers.

But just think about it : what counterplay a Sage/Sorcerer has against Saber Reflect or Resillience/Force Shroud ? In the case of Saber Reflect, the Sage/Sorcerer may use Force Quake/Lightning Storm, but in case of Resilience/Force Shroud, the only answer is "melee".

This particularity of the advanced class is contradictory to design you said you're aiming for.

 

2. Why are Sages/Sorcerers almost always the "first target" of melee classes in PvP ? Because in addition of their low armor, they have really poor defensive cooldown, as well as being easy to shut down considering their high cast reliance. Is it okay to be almost completely neutralized because of the compliance of all these flaws ? It would be much less dramatic if they had a few more instant abilities... which they already have and you know which two I'm thinking about.

This is probably the only AC with such glaring weaknesses that it affect players behavior.

 

3. It would make more sense for a class that lacks the defense to keep the offense high when endangered. Please, take a look at your other ranged classes and specs. When they're sensible to being assaulted, they gain defenses (Arsenal, Snipers...). They don't when they I have ways to keep the offense high (Assault, Lethality). Sages/Sorcerers are neither able to defend, neither to keep the offense high.

This probably makes it the only AC which can be neutralized completely

 

4. Would being able to land some saber strikes change the ACs' way of playing ?

The answer is no. You have range, and no benefit of using melee-range abilities. That alone make you wish to stand behind, outside of melee range, almost never using melee abilities outside of rare exceptions.

The measure is probably useless mechanically.

 

5. Would it ruin the feel of a Jedi solving issues with the Force ? Would it be shocking to see them use the Lightsaber ?

No. The Lightsaber is here, apparent, occasionnally waved to deflect shots, asking to be used when the opportunity occurs. It's not more shocking that these deflect avoidances.

If you doubt it, please answer this question : does the ability to Shiv your target as a Sniper makes you feel less "expert sniper" ?

It would likely be lore/game breaking for no-one in the Galaxy

 

Now, I may understand that you, as devs, may have different feedbacks on these points, especially number 2 and 3... But since you're justifying this choice with "game/lore design", I'd like that you really consider points 1, 4, and 5.

[Master-Nala]

 

Resorting to lies in order to defend the question? A very good decision

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Fay This link proves that it is a lie

 

That 'source' has very little canonical weight. It's inconsistency with Star Wars lore proves my point.

 

And for it to be a lie that would assume intentional falsehood. I have never heard of this character.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Master-Nala

[Khaosfyre]

If Operatives have an insanely high energy regeneration rate with Alacrity stacking, perhaps a modification to the existing force pool regeneration ratio relative to alacrity (given as healer we do stack a hefty percentage of this in our stat budget) may be the way to go without adding any extraneous abilities/heals as an interim fix to sustainability.

 

Sage/Sorcerer PVE 4-set bonus is quite lackluster in it's current iteration needs to be reviewed.

[KeyboardNinja]

Fortunately, this doesn't exist in 2.8, at least as far as the last PTS patch goes, because that would be extremely unbalanced. Maybe DF slingers or Assault Commandos will get buffed to 4.1k dps before it goes live, but I doubt it. TK outparses Gunnery and SS in 2.8, too, last time I checked.

 

Assault/Pyro (commando/merc version) parses quite close to balance/madness (sage/sorc version) in 2.8. Not quite the same, but very close (within less than 2%). And that's despite the fact that Assault/Pyro has better burst, half the setup time and better burst AoE (though no AoE in rotation).

 

...But obviously, you take the gunslinger.

 

Yep

 

My "citation" to prove that taking extra damage isn't the same as getting oneshot if you don't have a bubble?

 

No. You implied that the balance goal for SWTOR is to trade off damage taken vs damage dealt (and of course other things, but specifically that factor). I dispute that assertion as I cannot see any actions ever taken by this or any prior iteration of the SWTOR dev team which support the claim. My "citation needed" call to you was (perhaps snarkily) asking you to point out the balance decisions which you believe support this claim.

 

You know balance is more complicated than damage in vs damage out. Reducing it to simplistic terms to try to prove a point helps no one. Balance sage vs DF slinger vs Assault commando is a much better comparison than Balancs vs TK, as is TK vs Gunnery vs Sharpshooter.

 

Yep, and an Assault commando does both more damage than a DF slinger and has better burst survivability (sustained, low-damage survivability is better for DF due to Defense Screen, but that's rarely a concern). The only tool a DF slinger has going for it in the survivability department is Ballistic Shield, which isn't something that you ever use as a personal defensive CD. (I would class the shield as a raid utility; much like how Inspiration is not really a personal offensive CD for a sentinel)

 

I know balance is a lot more complex than in vs out. My point is that damage taken and damage dealt aren't even factors that are weighed against each other!

 

As far as I can tell, based on the developer's prior actions in balancing the game, DPS classes are balanced along three independent axes: sustained single-target vs burst AoE, survivability, and utility. I don't see any evidence that these axes are meant to interact in any way. In fact, we know specifically from what the devs have said that utility isn't supposed to penalize damage (and vice versa). We further know that in previous versions of SWTOR, utility did penalize damage (and vice versa) and that they are specifically moving away from that philosophy.

 

Just because the devs haven't reached balance yet doesn't mean we're not moving closer to it every balance patch (I did say it's the balance we "seem" to be approaching).

 

Even confining myself to just the balance changes in 2.8, I cannot see any evidence which supports the "glass cannon" hypothesis of DPS balance. The balance/madness (sage/sorc) buffs are the closest you get, except for the fact that a) balance/madness has better survivability than tk/lightning, and b) there are several other reasons why balance/madness needs to have extremely high sustained output in order to be attractive (i.e. setup time, DoT overkill, and lack of burst). The very fact that balance/madness shadows/assassins (which are to be in strong contention for the highest single-target DPS spec in the game) are also getting the best defensive CD in the game, on top of their other baseline survivability tools, seems to fly directly counter to the glass cannon hypothesis.

Edited May 28, 2014 by KeyboardNinja

[Galothor]

1) damage reduction while stunned

2) stun immunity cooldown / proc

3) cooldown useable while stunned

 

This is probably going too far. They should rather provide us with the tools to avoid some of that getting stunned or enable a decent performance afterwards.

 

Helpful would be DCD off GCD like all the others classes.

Give back 360° Knockback as they are unable to to fix those positioning problems / server lags which cause our knockbacks to miss. Plus all the other range classes got 360°knockbacks ... there is a reason why.

Give back instant mezz as a way to avoid/delay some of those enemy stuns or to improve the chance of getting away afterwards.

[Galothor]

Sage/Sorcerer PVE 4-set bonus is quite lackluster in it's current iteration needs to be reviewed.

 

Well same is true for both Heal and DPS PvP 4-set bonus. They are almost useless.

[DarthEndonae]

I find it amusing that they don't really want DPS to use Static Barrier and yet they put a boost to it in one of the DPS trees.

[Dyvim]

Hey folks!...

 

We could rather easily make Willpower affect melee attacks for Sages/Sorcerers, but we have no intention to make Sages/Sorcerers use their lightsabers more than they currently do. In terms of lore, the particular attributes that make someone a “Jedi Sage” or a “Sith Sorcerer” vary over the vast timeline of the Star Wars galaxy. And while Yoda and Palpatine were definitely inspirations for these classes, they are never identified by those terms in the films, and it wasn’t our intention to make direct gameplay clones of those characters in any case. Our feeling was that there are many players who want the experience of playing as a Jedi/Sith who relies almost solely on their mastery of the Force to resolve the challenges they face, with the lightsaber serving only as a secondary weapon; these classes were designed with that experience in mind.

 

As far as offering alternate animations and visual effects via the Cartel Market is concerned, only time will tell. Your message has been passed onto the team responsible for Cartel Market updates, and if it is possible, then you might see those options appear in the future.

 

Thanks for the response. Couple of things. Please realize that the lightsaber is not a secondary weapon for sages now..it IS NO WEAPON AT ALL. It isn't called a stat stick for 'nothing. That is why adding in a saber throw as a alternate animation for project would be so appropriate...sages already have one of the most deadly items in the universe IN THEIR HAND, yet they DONT USE IT OR THROW IT??? If you want to run away from the lore of the movies, where yoda and sidious are the obvious sage and sorcerer archtypes, you really don't have anywhere else to run to, as the kotor games, which are very close to this time period, matched up pretty well with the movie lore. If you want to dive into the lore of the EU, fine, but then I REALLY expect to see things like emerald lightning/electric judgement, etc.

 

Second...I guess your statement on offering alternate animations in the cartel market was about as positive as you could get, but it would be nice if you would have acknowledged a few things....

 

1) The game was built on copying abilities and slapping different animations on top of them in order to mirror the classes...technically this should be incredibly easy for you, especially since you have already done something similar with "kick the huttball"...

 

2) No where have jedi been junk and rock throwers...nowhere, as their primary moves. Nowhere. Nowhere. You have departed from the look and feel for what jedi should be in this game...partly to mirror the classes, since you did sorcerer/inq first...but part of it was just pure inexplicable lore departure. And we have the kotor games for this approximate time period, within a few hundred years, that have no jedi junk or rock throwing whatsoever, as is normal and expected. You made an outlier, and that is not good with a beloved IP.

 

3) Not only did you make an outlier for jedi, it just so happens that junk and rock throwing IS A SITH MOVE. If you look at the ultimate lore of the movies, EVERY SINGLE SITH throws junk at a target. And they throw junk more than any other ranged move. MORE THAN LIGHTNING. SO not only did you BASE jedi in this game on powers they don't TYPICALLY use, junk and rock throwing, those skills ARE USED BY THEIR enemies, their antithesis, the SITH. ALOT. You got it doubly wrong. You don't make the most recognized hero class in all of sci fi use the abilities of their enemies as their foundation, their first learned skills with numerous talents impacting them... It is a HUGE BLUNDER. Would of been nice to hear you acknowledge what we all know.

 

4) Players have been dissatisfied with the rocks and junk since they saw the light of day in beta for the above reasons and for the poor nature of the animations themselves...the only time throwing junk works, FOR SITH, is when the game engine can handle having the player manipulate objects in the environment and throw them. JEDI KNIGHT, DARK FORCE II, an almost 20 year old game, did this better, when it had junk throwing as a DARKSIDE power, and had objects IN the environment for you to throw...of course that wasn't an MMO, and had simpler level design, but they realized what it took to DO IT RIGHT. INSTEAD this game CHEATS and has ridiculous, environment ignorant animations that magically pull up junk from the floor, with no sensitivity to what kind of floor it is...so you get rock or droid chassis up out of starship decks. IT IS LAUGHABLE. And it is the basis of jedi in this game. FAIL. Acknowledge it, and make money from your players that are willing to pay for something better and jedi-like.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Dyvim

[sanchito]

This is probably going too far. They should rather provide us with the tools to avoid some of that getting stunned or enable a decent performance afterwards.

 

Helpful would be DCD off GCD like all the others classes.

Give back 360° Knockback as they are unable to to fix those positioning problems / server lags which cause our knockbacks to miss. Plus all the other range classes got 360°knockbacks ... there is a reason why.

Give back instant mezz as a way to avoid/delay some of those enemy stuns or to improve the chance of getting away afterwards.

 

i obviously mean 1 of them, not all 3.

 

although i wouldn't complain i they did give us all 3 ;-)

[ChroniKill]

I love the fact that the self heal may come off GCD. I think with that and a revised 4 piece set bonus (PvP and PvE) to reduce, perhaps not eliminate, the health loss then it would make up for our lack of free heal and make it manageable to deal with health loss, low force and potentially reduced force regeneration rate all at once.

[Cleet_Xia]

LOL.......Wha...Huuuuutt?

 

Sorc Questions ~ Heal thyself to full & make them pay!

Sage Questions ~ Oh, we don't expect DPS specs to heal themselves in Operations.

 

So which is it? How exactly is the sage/sorc AC supposed to be played? I understand that in one situation we're talking about PvP & in the other we're talking about PvE, and that they put completely different demands on how players use their abilities. But they're not THAT different.

 

If a raid leader has to pick between a DPS that could cast an aoe heal, or raid wide buff if needed & one that won't even use their defensive CD's ~ sage/sorc DPS's would be left standing on the shoulder of the road. No organized group would voluntarily take a DPS that's going to require additional healing if they don't bring something else to the table.

 

There's plenty of damage in endgame content that the bubble absorbs ~ and saying that the content is skewed toward internal/elemental damage doesn't address the fact that there is plenty of damage that the bubble does prevent.

[truchaos]

Sage/Sorcerer healers, we hear you and we see that our data validates what you are saying – as it shows you are currently performing behind both Scoundrel/Operative healers and Commando/Mercenary healers in PvP. We do not currently have any plans to share with you on how we intend to improve Sage/Sorcerer healing in PvP, but it is a priority for us, and we would love to hear your own ideas on how you would like Sage/Sorcerer healing to be improved in PvP without also making Sage/Sorcerer healing too good in PvE. We will say in advance that, “make such-and-such ability activate instantly,” is not a solution we are likely to consider (unless it is a temporary buff triggered by something else, and not a permanent reduction of activation time). Our goal is to keep Sage/Sorcerer healing as close as possible to the way it is in PvE, while improving how it performs in PvP.

 

Now here are some questions for the Sage/Sorcerer community, regarding Noble Sacrifice/Consumption. Do you believe removing the health cost of Noble Sacrifice/Consumption as a PvP set bonus would be something that PvE Sage/Sorcerer healers also feel like they need, or are PvE Sage/Sorcerers happier with their current set bonuses? If it is something that PvE Sages/Sorcerers would rather have as well, then which current PvE set bonus would you want to give up for it? Do you think that having a health-cost-free Noble Sacrifice/Consumption would be too good for PvE? Do you believe it might take away too much of the challenge for healing in PvE situations?

 

Please let us know your thoughts about these issues in your replies to this post. We will be listening, and we appreciate your feedback.

 

I would give just about anything for the return of 'no health loss on consume with stacks' that I so fondly recall from launch. As the main sorcerer healer for a 16man NiM ops team I find myself taking consistently more damage over the course of encounters than any of the other healers (merc, x2 ops) due to my lighter armour and lack of 'activate and forget' dcd's. That being said, as the healer who is taking the highest ambient damage from encounters- it makes the additional health cost of consumption a larger risk that it might first appear. No other healer has to sacrifice their personal survivability in order to maintain their resource management nor does any other healer have not just one, but two negative afflictions associated with their resource management. As well as sorcerer healers are constantly sacrificing a gcd to work this management into our main rotation effectively makes our heals less than the other healing ac's due to the lost time.

 

A suggestion that could be a middle ground without completely negating the negatives of consumption and force management across both PvP and PvE would be if Static Barrier was altered to absorb the inflicted damage from Consumption/Noble Sacrifice (this could be added to the healing tree's 5th tier talent 'Corrupted Barrier' if it is intended only for those who are spec'ed mainly as healers- this talent currently only adds a 1% dot heal to a sorcerer's personal barrier). The standing PvP 2 piece set bonus would become even more powerful (reducing the lockout on the debuff of barrier) and the 4 piece PvP/PvE bonuses could be shifted to further reduce the damage inflicted by Consumption/Noble Sacrifice to make it so the sorcerer/sage was not chewing through their protective barriers with abandon. I would absolutely sacrifice the +50 force for a lower Consume health cost. Without questions- as I don't even use the 4 piece set bonus in PvE due to it being in short worthless. This would not be a permanent negation of the health loss- the negatives of Consumption would still be there (health cost and degradation of force regeneration) but could be buffered through barriers and proper use of Force Surge stacks for the healing tree.

 

Something that I think should also be addressed in the healing side of this is the disparity between the main 'big' heal of sorcerers/sages and the other healing ac's. With a base of 3 seconds, Dark Infusion is a full .5 seconds slower than operative's Kolto Injection and a Mercenary's Rapid Scan- without being equivalent in healing vs cast time of the other two ac's (in fact, the 9% main stat spec bonus available to the operative will push them above an equally geared sorcerer in hps when looking at the balance of the effective numbers). Is there any reason that Dark Infusion could not be brought to the same cast time as the other healing ac's or increased in potency to make up for the disparity in the cast?

Edited May 28, 2014 by truchaos

[DarthSylar]

We are mostly satisfied with Sage/Sorcerer survivability in Operations. If you are a Sage/Sorcerer that specializes in dealing damage, we do not expect you to use Force Armor/Static Barrier on yourself or others in an Operation. If you find this to not be the case in any given encounter, please feel free to post in the Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions forum, and let the Operations team know specifically which mechanic in which encounter is making you feel like you are required to use Force Armor/Static Barrier on yourself to survive. Also, please note that depending on how you and your healer specialize (if your group has a Sage/Sorcerer healer), your own Force Armor/Static Barrier is likely weaker and more expensive than your Sage/ Sorcerer healer’s Force Armor/Static Barrier. In addition, using your own Force Armor/Static Barrier will lockout your Sage/Sorcerer healer’s stronger and cheaper version of the ability.

 

Usually, damage dealt to the whole Operation group or to random Operation group members is dealt as elemental or internal damage, so that the classes with higher armor values do not have an advantage over classes with lower armor values, like the Sage/Sorcerer. Sometimes, the Operations team will intentionally decide to not make this damage elemental or internal (as is currently the case in the Dread Master Brontes encounter). If you feel that such practices leave the Sage/Sorcerer in a position that is too vulnerable, then please let us know in the Operations forum (linked above) so that we can address the issue.

 

Now with that said, we will definitely consider taking the global cooldown off of Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation, but the global cooldown on Force Armor/Static Barrier is there to stay, since it can be placed on others and we do not expect you to use the ability in Operations if you are a damage dealer.

[/color]

 

The problem with this, is there may not be a sage/sorc healer in the operation, so there's no reason to expect players not to use it on themselves.

 

Here's a solution. Take away the ability to place a bubble on other player, take it off the GCD, but add a 1.5 sec cooldown on the skill, then add the ability to place a shield on other players in the skill Amnesty.

 

This way, full spec healers notice no real difference what so ever, but DPS players can use the ability on themselves without it being on the GCD.

[DarthVengeant]

I have 4 Sorcs and 2 Sages.

 

I use Force Armor/Static Barrier nearly 100% of the time I am playing, and use it in ops as well. When you pull aggro from the boss because your so burst heavy and your de-aggro is on cooldown, it's all you have. I also get a guard. And no, that's not a tanking issue. When you are a well geared Sage/Sorc...that one rotation puts your aggro sky high. I also use it in PVP. I put it on people in PVP and helps keep them alive. Heck, I end up saving tanks lives in Ops when I put it on them in HM's. I really don't see where anyone would NOT be using it in PVE and PVP. Any Sage or Sorc should always have it on. Period.

 

Furthermore, if you made more of the Sage/Soc abilities able to be cast while you are moving that would help ALOT for survivability. Most the time you get killed is because you had to stop moving to cast.

Edited May 28, 2014 by DarthVengeant

[AshlaBoga]

 

Sage/Sorcerer healers, we hear you and we see that our data validates what you are saying – as it shows you are currently performing behind both Scoundrel/Operative healers and Commando/Mercenary healers in PvP. We do not currently have any plans to share with you on how we intend to improve Sage/Sorcerer healing in PvP, but it is a priority for us, and we would love to hear your own ideas on how you would like Sage/Sorcerer healing to be improved in PvP without also making Sage/Sorcerer healing too good in PvE. We will say in advance that, “make such-and-such ability activate instantly,” is not a solution we are likely to consider (unless it is a temporary buff triggered by something else, and not a permanent reduction of activation time). Our goal is to keep Sage/Sorcerer healing as close as possible to the way it is in PvE, while improving how it performs in PvP.

 

 

Well at least we agree that Sorcs/Sages are not as good as Ops in PvP.

[Azeron]

Give the Sages melee abilities !! and add the old Project annimation to the Cartel Market!!!

the People want the sage to feel like it is a jedi!

[Ycoga]

Hey folks!

 

Below you will find the answers to the top 3 Sage questions which were submitted earlier in this forum. Thank you all for your patience as we worked on getting them answered!

 

-eric

Pleasure, thanks for interacting with us.

 

We are mostly satisfied with Sage/Sorcerer survivability in Operations. If you are a Sage/Sorcerer that specializes in dealing damage, we do not expect you to use Force Armor/Static Barrier on yourself or others in an Operation. If you find this to not be the case in any given encounter, please feel free to post in the Flashpoints, Operations, and Heroic Missions forum, and let the Operations team know specifically which mechanic in which encounter is making you feel like you are required to use Force Armor/Static Barrier on yourself to survive.

Currently, every Sage player in your game puts Force Armor on themselves before doing anything else. They see it primarily as a pre-requisite, not as something they use to survive. It IS used to survive, yes - but that just makes the skill versatile and good. I think the popular answer here would be, 'we're required to have 100% Force Armor uptime on ourselves to survive, whether it was cast by the healer or myself doesn't matter'.

 

Edit: I challenge one of you to Pug a game (pve or pvp, doesn't matter) and never put Force Armor on yourself. See how that goes for you

 

Also, please note that depending on how you and your healer specialize (if your group has a Sage/Sorcerer healer), your own Force Armor/Static Barrier is likely weaker and more expensive than your Sage/ Sorcerer healer’s Force Armor/Static Barrier. In addition, using your own Force Armor/Static Barrier will lockout your Sage/Sorcerer healer’s stronger and cheaper version of the ability.

As above, if there's an emergency, its natural for a DPS sage to put Force Armor on themselves, without waiting for the healer:

1. It assists the healer and lets them use Armor on other classes that lack the ability, saving time and helping the group

2. It helps you survive

3. This is 'off healing' which the BW devs have stated before is a benefit of the Sage class. Of course we use it.

4. The DPS sage has effects baked in to his Force Armor (e.g. bubblestun) that they don't get from the healer.

 

Now with that said, we will definitely consider taking the global cooldown off of Force Mend/Unnatural Preservation, but the global cooldown on Force Armor/Static Barrier is there to stay, since it can be placed on others and we do not expect you to use the ability in Operations if you are a damage dealer.

Deal.

 

we would love to hear your own ideas on how you would like Sage/Sorcerer healing to be improved in PvP without also making Sage/Sorcerer healing too good in PvE. We will say in advance that, “make such-and-such ability activate instantly,” is not a solution we are likely to consider (unless it is a temporary buff triggered by something else, and not a permanent reduction of activation time). Our goal is to keep Sage/Sorcerer healing as close as possible to the way it is in PvE, while improving how it performs in PvP.

The main difference, from a layman, is target-switching and focus fire. PVE mobs choose targets using Threat; players use other criteria to select targets. A good solution might be to make the Sage a less attractive PVP target. This means, make enemies think twice before focussing them. Examples:

1. add +25% defence or dodge chance for 3 seconds after Seer uses Force Mend, when Conveyance is active.

2. Give Seer 0.5 seconds of invisibility when Force Mend activates while Conveyance is up (this is not so they can hide, but is only to break enemy's target lock, perhaps forcing them to switch targets).

3. If Seer is under 30% health, Force Mend gets +33% power while Conveyance is up

4. If Seer has resplendence stacks, they are consumed when Force Armor ends, and a 360 degree knockback effect pushes nearby enemies away

 

I hope these examples suffice - none of them should affect PVE conditions. Basically, PVP enemies need to have other attack options open to them apart from the Seer healer.

 

Do you believe removing the health cost of Noble Sacrifice/Consumption as a PvP set bonus would be something that PvE Sage/Sorcerer healers also feel like they need, or are PvE Sage/Sorcerers happier with their current set bonuses? If it is something that PvE Sages/Sorcerers would rather have as well, then which current PvE set bonus would you want to give up for it? Do you think that having a health-cost-free Noble Sacrifice/Consumption would be too good for PvE? Do you believe it might take away too much of the challenge for healing in PvE situations?

It'd be attractive and, I have to say, OP for PVE.

 

Other options might be along the lines of the examples given above.

 

We could rather easily make Willpower affect melee attacks for Sages/Sorcerers

Then please do so immediately.

 

As far as offering alternate animations and visual effects via the Cartel Market is concerned, only time will tell. Your message has been passed onto the team responsible for Cartel Market updates, and if it is possible, then you might see those options appear in the future.

Thanks!

Edited May 28, 2014 by Ycoga

[SnoowMeow]

Shadow tanks have a mechanic that may be useful for sage healers in pvp. When a shadow tank builds up 3 stacks of that green star thingy (Harnessed shadows?), their next telekinetic throw is immune to pushback and uninterruptable (short of a hard stun).

Giving a sage seer something similar may help even the odds in pvp versus other healing classes. 3 stacks of resplendance could make the next deliverance or healing trance immune to pushback and uninterruptable short of a hard stun. Limit this benefit to once every ... what? 20 seconds? An eternity in pvp.

That ability would be of some utility in PVE, but super useful in PVP, especially the deliverance business. At least an interrupted healing trance would get one or two ticks off, but that huge deliverance cast almost always turns out to be a waste of 2 GCDs.

I don't think a cost-less Noble Sacrifice would result in balance, it would be an overcompensation. And also, a no-cost force boost is hardly a "sacrifice". Depending on 3 stacks of resplendence to get your nice cast off will make that sacrifice all the more noble.

[PianoMatt]

PvP - Seer Spec Issues

 

Now here are some questions for the Sage/Sorcerer community, regarding Noble Sacrifice/Consumption. Do you believe removing the health cost of Noble Sacrifice/Consumption as a PvP set bonus would be something that PvE Sage/Sorcerer healers also feel like they need, or are PvE Sage/Sorcerers happier with their current set bonuses? If it is something that PvE Sages/Sorcerers would rather have as well, then which current PvE set bonus would you want to give up for it? Do you think that having a health-cost-free Noble Sacrifice/Consumption would be too good for PvE? Do you believe it might take away too much of the challenge for healing in PvE situations?

 

Please let us know your thoughts about these issues in your replies to this post. We will be listening, and we appreciate your feedback.

 

[/color]

 

I would love to see something like the currrent PVP 4-piece set bonus (Consumption or Noble Sacrifice restore 3% of max health over 6 seconds.) being switched to the 4-piece PVE bonus and get rid of the +50 force bonus completely.

 

In it's place for pvp, something like "On the use of Resurgence/Rejuvenate gain 1 charge of <insert buff name here> that blocks/makes you immune to interrupt for 3 seconds" This would not really effect PVE in any detrimental way that I can think of and in PVP would allow sorcs/sages (if they plant themselves for a moment) the ability to get off 1 successful cast after the use of resurgence. If they run, it would wear off and not be helpful for the more elusive players, while giving the ones who want to make a stand a little more support.

[MidichIorian]

We do not currently have any plans to share with you on how we intend to improve Sage/Sorcerer healing in PvP, but it is a priority for us,

I'm going to hold you to it.

 

Ok, so to me atleast the biggest issue is that in the event that I manage to keep myself alive under pressure (and I'm not refering to 1 vs 4 situations where I'm supposed to die) I'll eventually die because of lack of force. It's such a horrible way of dying because I know that it would never happen on any of the other two healers. But you've more or less already adressed this. I'm not sure I want to agree with the people who think force management as a PvE healer is good though. Perhaps they're playing in really coordinated groups where the tanks/dps are good at not taking damage but in a standard pug it's always easier to play one of the other two and I always see sages struggle with their management.

 

The other problem is to heal under constant interrupts. I know you said that you don't want to universally change too much so I'm not sure how to fix that for PvP specifically. It would have been easier to answer if I had the same insight on how much you're able to add to set bonuses but that's not really preventing someone from using the PvE set in PvP or the other way around anyway. I think you're more or less forced to go down the "smash path" and add individual mechanics to abilties depending on where they are used. That said, if I were to disregard the things you said you're not keen on changing I'd suggest:

* A Presence of Mind mechanic linked to Trance. Three stacks and you get a free and instant deliverance.

*Shorter CD on Trance or more power to Rejuvenate.

*Shorter CD on Force Speed (linked to an ability in the Seer tree, high up).This wouldnt affect Pve much, if at all, but at the same time really help in PvP.

 

The last thing I want you to do to the seer tree is to add additional skill points so that people are forced to sacrifice things in their current specs. You did this with Egress, you knew Balance specs would want to take it yet you place it in the second tier so that Balance has to give up even more of the already poor force management, for PvP specifically. Speaking of Balance specs, the PvE set bonuses are making a huge difference so I wouldnt mind seeing those on the PvP set too.

 

Also, I'm not going to pretend that I'm not worried about these changes you are working on. I feel that most things have turned for the worse since launch and instead of reverting or tweaking existing things you've come up with new stuff, which to me make no sense since it takes much longer to do and forces players to change their gameplay. People like sage because it's a fun and basic AC. If it all of a sudden has 4 DCD'es and a bunch of other stuff, such as a ton of defensive and offensive procs in every tree, one might aswell play something els.

 

Bonus, I don't care about lightsaber use so I'm perfectly fine with the answer on that topic. I would however like to carry a double-bladed saber on sage, it makes sense from a healer-MMO perspective. Can't you just give us some CM item that atleast resembles a staff or DB saber?

Edited May 29, 2014 by MidichIorian

[TACeMossie]

Thanks for the response. Couple of things. Please realize that the lightsaber is not a secondary weapon for sages now..it IS NO WEAPON AT ALL. It isn't called a stat stick for 'nothing. That is why adding in a saber throw as a alternate animation for project would be so appropriate...sages already have one of the most deadly items in the universe IN THEIR HAND, yet they DONT USE IT OR THROW IT??? If you want to run away from the lore of the movies, where yoda and sidious are the obvious sage and sorcerer archtypes, you really don't have anywhere else to run to, as the kotor games, which are very close to this time period, matched up pretty well with the movie lore. If you want to dive into the lore of the EU, fine, but then I REALLY expect to see things like emerald lightning/electric judgement, etc.

 

Second...I guess your statement on offering alternate animations in the cartel market was about as positive as you could get, but it would be nice if you would have acknowledged a few things....

 

1) The game was built on copying abilities and slapping different animations on top of them in order to mirror the classes...technically this should be incredibly easy for you, especially since you have already done something similar with "kick the huttball"...

 

2) No where have jedi been junk and rock throwers...nowhere, as their primary moves. Nowhere. Nowhere. You have departed from the look and feel for what jedi should be in this game...partly to mirror the classes, since you did sorcerer/inq first...but part of it was just pure inexplicable lore departure. And we have the kotor games for this approximate time period, within a few hundred years, that have no jedi junk or rock throwing whatsoever, as is normal and expected. You made an outlier, and that is not good with a beloved IP.

 

3) Not only did you make an outlier for jedi, it just so happens that junk and rock throwing IS A SITH MOVE. If you look at the ultimate lore of the movies, EVERY SINGLE SITH throws junk at a target. And they throw junk more than any other ranged move. MORE THAN LIGHTNING. SO not only did you BASE jedi in this game on powers they don't TYPICALLY use, junk and rock throwing, those skills ARE USED BY THEIR enemies, their antithesis, the SITH. ALOT. You got it doubly wrong. You don't make the most recognized hero class in all of sci fi use the abilities of their enemies as their foundation, their first learned skills with numerous talents impacting them... It is a HUGE BLUNDER. Would of been nice to hear you acknowledge what we all know.

 

4) Players have been dissatisfied with the rocks and junk since they saw the light of day in beta for the above reasons and for the poor nature of the animations themselves...the only time throwing junk works, FOR SITH, is when the game engine can handle having the player manipulate objects in the environment and throw them. JEDI KNIGHT, DARK FORCE II, an almost 20 year old game, did this better, when it had junk throwing as a DARKSIDE power, and had objects IN the environment for you to throw...of course that wasn't an MMO, and had simpler level design, but they realized what it took to DO IT RIGHT. INSTEAD this game CHEATS and has ridiculous, environment ignorant animations that magically pull up junk from the floor, with no sensitivity to what kind of floor it is...so you get rock or droid chassis up out of starship decks. IT IS LAUGHABLE. And it is the basis of jedi in this game. FAIL. Acknowledge it, and make money from your players that are willing to pay for something better and jedi-like.

 

This is a nice rant and all but...

 

There was a single case in an obscure comic of a jedi who didnt use her lightsaber and instead would throw debris as their only form of offense (she apparently stopped carrying her lightsaber when she became a master). The links on a previous page.

 

Also its kind of hard to make a force move that is designed to kill someone without it being dark sided. I think at least with project/TK Throw, the jedi is using their environment instead of using the force to create weapons to kill their enemies with