Darth Revan's Sith Empire vs Lord Kaan's Brotherhood.

[LadyKulvax]

Just because these two factions are rarely debated and because I always wonder who would win.

 

Darth Revan's Sith Empire (without Star Forge) vs Lord Kaan's entire Brotherhood of Sith (including military, no madman Kaan).

 

Sith Empire has Revan, Malak, Karath, HK-47, etc.. Brotherhood has Kaan, Kas'im, etc..

 

Essentially all characters affiliated and loyal to either faction is involved.

 

We rarely see the lower tier factions go at it around here so I thought this would be interesting.

 

Again NO STAR FORGE, I know people tend to skim so there is that.

 

I know the exact numbers of these factions are unknown so this should probably be the first topic of discussion.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Does the BoS even have a navy? Abit the BoS is kinda vague in terms of what they have, from what I'm seeing. They have the more powerful Sith(IE: Darth Bane).

 

But everything else is just...there. The two factions both have Sith Assassins, they both have armies with non-force sensitives and Sith Lords, though the BoS do have droids something which here Revan's Empire doesn't have considering he isn't allowed the Starforge. Though I don't really see that tipping the favor for the BoS that much.

Edited May 27, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

We had this debate a long time ago (I'm talking 2012 lol) back in the Kaggath, since then my thoughts are unchanged so I'll quote Aurbere's analysis on this one:

 

Troops: Kaan's Sith Empire has roughly 20,000 Sith Lords (in title only), as well as several non-Force users (which serve as the backbone of the army). Darth Revan's Sith Empire is comprised of Dark Jedi, Sith Soldiers, and heavy Battle Droids. This battle will come down to Force Users and as it stands right now, Kaan has the advantage here.

 

Troop Adaptability: Can't really say much here. They are rather even in adaptability.

 

Recruitment and Charisma: Lord Kaan was insistent on finding and training Force users. Many of Darth Revan's forces came from recruited members such as Saul Karath and fellow war dogs. Darth Revan is a very charismatic man and can convince many to join him. Lord Kaan's recruitment relied on his mind tricks and convincing others to believe in his vision. In this area, Kaan is outclassed by Darth Revan.

 

Starships: Darth Revan's fleet was mainly comprised of incredibly powerful Interdictor-class vessels and stolen Republic vessels. I'm not entirely sure what Kaan has, but its enough to challenge a pretty powerful Republic.

 

Tacticians: Both Lord Kaan and Darth Revan are very good tacticians and Kaan's Battle Meditation will come in handy as Darth Revan and Malak do not know Battle Meditation. During the Jedi Civil War, Darth Revan waged a campaign that would inevitably conquer the Republic, if not for the unfortunate betrayal from Malak. Darth Revan wins tactically, but Kaan's battle Meditation will slightly close the gap.

 

Allies: Kaan having Darth Bane, Kas'im, Kopecz and Qordis are an excellent boon to his Empire and give him an advantage when it comes down to Kaan vs. Revan. Malak will help Revan quite a bit, but his merciless approach to war could prove detrimental to Revan's campaign. Kaan's allies are greater than Malak.

 

Infighting: Kaan led a stable Empire, but when the going got tough his fellows started to fight amongst themselves. Darth Revan's Empire is far more stable as the lesser Sith are too weak to actually try to usurp the title from Revan. Must be wary of Malak. However, Darth Revan gets the edge here.

 

One on One: Kaan's strength lied in charisma and mind tricks. Darth Revan could do what Kaan can do as well as so much more. Darth Revan takes it.

 

Considering everything, Kaan seems to have an advantage, but that will slowly slip away once Revan's Sith Empire puts up an actual fight. The infighting and backstabbing is what will kill Kaan's campaign. I will elaborate more in future debates, but for now...

 

Darth Revan wins.

 

It is a close matchup, but I agree, despite Kaan having a numerical advantage in terms of Sith but I think in every other respect Revan's Empire is more strong and sturdy and can withstand more kinds of attacks. Ultimately I feel that Revan would track Lord Kaan down and personally kill him, his legions of assassins and HK-47 would make this easy.

[October]

I think Darth Revan's Empire would win.

 

Revan was able to easily inspire others to join in on his cause, and even though the BoS was formed under the guise that everyone is equals, I think Revan would be able to inspire many of those lesser Sith to do his bidding and join his cause; it's not like it was ever an even organized group in the first place. Even some of the more powerful Sith of Kaan's might defect, seeing Kaan as the madman he is.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I think Darth Revan's Empire would win.

 

Revan was able to easily inspire others to join in on his cause, and even though the BoS was formed under the guise that everyone is equals, I think Revan would be able to inspire many of those lesser Sith to do his bidding and join his cause; it's not like it was ever an even organized group in the first place. Even some of the more powerful Sith of Kaan's might defect, seeing Kaan as the madman he is.

 

OP says no madman Kaan.

[LadyKulvax]

It should be noted that the Republic Navy was at the time stated to be nearly a 'dozen thousand' strong with the shipyards competing heavily, the Brotherhood of Darkness had a navy even larger.

 

The 'Dark Army' was also consisted of 'hundreds of thousands in each rim' though it is also stated to range from amateur militia and smugglers to hunters and mercenaries up to highly trained veteran legions and assassination squads.

 

Kaan was also quite capable of maintaining the loyalties of his followers with mind domination which only the most powerful among the genuine Dark Lords could resist somewhat.

[October]

It should be noted that the Republic Navy was at the time stated to be nearly a 'dozen thousand' strong with the shipyards competing heavily, the Brotherhood of Darkness had a navy even larger.

 

The 'Dark Army' was also consisted of 'hundreds of thousands in each rim' though it is also stated to range from amateur militia and smugglers to hunters and mercenaries up to highly trained veteran legions and assassination squads.

 

Kaan was also quite capable of maintaining the loyalties of his followers with mind domination which only the most powerful among the genuine Dark Lords could resist somewhat.

 

If Revan was able to resist the mental domination of the Emperor and still bring people to join in his empire, then do you imagine it'd be plausible that Revan might able to break other people from Kaan's hold?

 

Regardless, I think Qordis would be among the first of the higher Sith to defect from Kaan's Brotherhood. Similar to how Qordis sought to align himself with Bane to overthrow Kaan, I think Qordis would react much the same. With Revan being of the opposing faction, he'd quite obviously be Kaan's equal, or at least counterpart, and might try to join in on Revan's side with the idea that Revan would overthrow Kaan. I imagine that Qordis would think himself superior to Malak and be able to dispose of him once his goals were achieved.

[sell-dog]

If Revan was able to resist the mental domination of the Emperor and still bring people to join in his empire, then do you imagine it'd be plausible that Revan might able to break other people from Kaan's hold?

 

I'm pretty sure she said that to close the gap between Kaan and Darth Revan's charisma and being able to inspire/control/persuade their respective troops. And Kaan didn't dominate people's mind like the Emperor did, he was more of a subtle persuasion like a Zannah sort of style. Either way, I don't know if "undoing a mind-trick placed on someone else" is a thing in the SW universe.

 

I think the stability/back-stabbing of Kaan's forces is being overstated. The only person that there was ever a conflict with was Bane. The rest of the Brotherhood was relatively-united (as in not stating overpowering objection) to getting rid of Bane and Qordis only made some silly scrub last chance at an alliance. There was not a concrete plot in mind once said alliance were to be formed. Darth Revan's Empire had loyalty issues at the very top of the chain of command. I find the 2nd in command trying to assassinate the guy in charge speaking to a much higher magnitude of instability/back-stabbing than trying to get rid of someone who's new to the Dark Lord Ranks.

 

Without the Star Forge I think this may also imply that the Brotherhood will have the tech advantage. For whatever it's worth, the Brotherhood lasted 3 times longer than Revan's (Malak's) Sith Empire. I think this in a way speaks to the quantity of their respective arsenals and the stability within. I think Revan is the better strategist but the longer the war goes, the more it will favor Kaan.

[LadyKulvax]

I'm pretty sure she said that to close the gap between Kaan and Darth Revan's charisma and being able to inspire/control/persuade their respective troops. And Kaan didn't dominate people's mind like the Emperor did, he was more of a subtle persuasion like a Zannah sort of style. Either way, I don't know if "undoing a mind-trick placed on someone else" is a thing in the SW universe.

 

I think the stability/back-stabbing of Kaan's forces is being overstated. The only person that there was ever a conflict with was Bane. The rest of the Brotherhood was relatively-united (as in not stating overpowering objection) to getting rid of Bane and Qordis only made some silly scrub last chance at an alliance. There was not a concrete plot in mind once said alliance were to be formed. Darth Revan's Empire had loyalty issues at the very top of the chain of command. I find the 2nd in command trying to assassinate the guy in charge speaking to a much higher magnitude of instability/back-stabbing than trying to get rid of someone who's new to the Dark Lord Ranks.

 

Without the Star Forge I think this may also imply that the Brotherhood will have the tech advantage. For whatever it's worth, the Brotherhood lasted 3 times longer than Revan's (Malak's) Sith Empire. I think this in a way speaks to the quantity of their respective arsenals and the stability within. I think Revan is the better strategist but the longer the war goes, the more it will favor Kaan.

 

I agree with the stability aspect, Kaan's Brotherhood is arguably the most unified force of Sith we've seen, Revan's however can hardly claim the same.

 

Whilst Darth Revan was charismatic we must not forget that he had to use Malachor V to bring his forces under his sway, Kaan however maintained his 20,000 Sith with subtlety and persuasion, any Sith with two braincells to put together is going to see the backstabbing in Revan's Sith Empire and have renewed conviction in their Brotherhood's beliefs.

Edited May 28, 2014 by LadyKulvax

[Beniboybling]

I agree that Lord Kaan has greater stability in terms of loyalty than Revan, but I don't feel it will be an issue. Either:

 

1. Assuming we are abiding by the Kaggath rule that victory is achieved by killing the opposing leader, Malak can't kill Revan without forfeiting, so that simply won't prove an issue.
    
    
   
2. Assuming we are not, even if Malak betrays Revan, Malak is more than capable of leading the Sith Empire to victory, even without Revan I feel that his Empire is superior to Kaan's Brotherhood.
   

I think this will come down to several main factors:

 

The superiority of Revan's navy. Not only are they equipped with Rakata technology and interdiction technology but Revan also arguably has a much more powerful production house, Duro, Coreilla, Fondor etc.

 

The superiority of Revan's tacticians. I'm sure that Lord Kaan's brotherhood has capable tacticians, but they haven't exactly demonstrated anything impressive, and the battle of Ruusan was a tactical disaster. On the other hand Revan has himself - a master tactician - and Malak, and some of best and brightest of the Republic navy e.g. Karath.

 

Revan's assassination arm, including himself, HK-47 and a legion of Sith Assassins, more than enough to track Kaan down and chop of the head which will either be an auto-win (I'd appreciate clarification on the rules) or will simply cause the Brotherhood to fall apart. Being all "equal" they lack any effective means of succession and will fall into anarchy.

[Beniboybling]

I think this in a way speaks to the quantity of their respective arsenals and the stability within.

Well, it really doesn't. Instead lets look at it from a differing perspective. The Republic managed to hold off the Brotherhood of Darkness for 10 years, and ultimately destroyed them. Revan's Sith Empire all but defeated the Republic within 2 years, and would have been totally annihilated within a third.

 

Yes the Republic was severely weakened at this point, but so was the Republic in the New Sith Wars, the dark age and the ensuing thousand year struggle reduced the Republic to as Wookieepedia states:

 

...a mere rump state surrounding the Core Worlds, Inner Colonies, and few other worlds outside it...

 

And they still managed to beat the Brotherhood, the only reason Revan's Sith Empire was defeated was because Malak betrayed Revan and then Revan was redeemed and defeated Malak - the latter at the very least is not going to happen here, and if it didn't happen then the Republic would have been wiped out Darth Revan or not.

[LadyKulvax]

The only reason the Brotherhood lost was because Kaan went mad and basically went down the Hitler path of self-destruction, making idiotic tactical decisions like attempting a retake of Ruusan rather than attacking and taking the Core Worlds all because of personal vanity, fortunately for the Brotherhood this won't be a problem.

 

Lord Hoth's Army of Light came out of nowhere and turned the war, then the numerous Ruusan battles took place, before this, the Sith marched on smashing every defence the Jedi mounted.

 

The Brotherhood of Darkness does however have every single shipyard in the mid-rim and outwards, production clearly favours Kaan.

 

Revan is the better strategist but Kaan has Battle Meditation, something Revan's Empire never overcame.

 

As far as rules go, either one faction outright conquers the other or one faction kills every significant character capable of leadership on the other.

 

So no Kaggath style, I gotta diversify.

[Beniboybling]

The only reason the Brotherhood lost was because Kaan went mad and basically went down the Hitler path of self-destruction, making idiotic tactical decisions like attempting a retake of Ruusan rather than attacking and taking the Core Worlds all because of personal vanity, fortunately for the Brotherhood this won't be a problem.

 

Lord Hoth's Army of Light came out of nowhere and turned the war, then the numerous Ruusan battles took place, before this, the Sith marched on smashing every defence the Jedi mounted.

 

The Brotherhood of Darkness does however have every single shipyard in the mid-rim and outwards, production clearly favours Kaan.

 

Revan is the better strategist but Kaan has Battle Meditation, something Revan's Empire never overcame.

 

As far as rules go, either one faction outright conquers the other or one faction kills every significant character capable of leadership on the other.

 

So no Kaggath style, I gotta diversify.

Yet he was only driven mad because of his increasingly hopeless condition, when he decided to use the thought bomb the Sith were already in dire straits and didn't seem to be winning in any sense of the word. The fact that all it took was an organised group of Force sensitives to destroy them indicates they are lacking in this respect.

 

Revan has his own "army" of Force Users and they are far more deadly than the Army of Light or the Brotherhood.

 

Anyway I'm not sure that the Brotherhood had that much territory, given that the Republic were able to deny official war. But Revan has a substantial presence in the Mid and Outer Rim as well, on top of the biggest shipyards in the galaxy.

 

I'm not sure how good Kaan's battle meditation is, but it can only be used on one battlefield at a time. On top of that it will only leave him exposed and a target, as soon as Revan discovers his ability he'll having boarding parties attempting to assassinate him in every battle he is in, eventually they will succeed especially if Revan or Malak goes personally.

 

But if the Kaggath rule doesn't apply then we could well see Malak betraying Revan, perhaps.

[Wolfninjajedi]

 

Revan has his own "army" of Force Users and they are far more deadly than the Army of Light or the Brotherhood.

 

 

Says....where? Also the BoS do have something tipping in their favor, the Gloom Walkers(elite Sith unit, high success rate in operations). I'm not recalling Revan's SE having an sort of highly regarded or successful special unit in his army(barring the Sith Assassins, but Kaan has Sith Assassins too).

 

Of course their victories were the success of Bane, though if he leads them here that could prove useful.

 

Kaan also does have spies, most notably Umbaran Shadow Assassins which can hide their presence in The Force and also hide from sight and sound.

Edited May 28, 2014 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Says....where?

Logic my friend.

 

The Army of Light did indeed consist of powerful Force Users, but it also consisted of scores of non-sensitives who wielded archaic weapons and wore archaic armor, we are talking clubs and spears here.

 

The Brotherhood of Darkness is not much more impressive, the greatest of their ranks are susceptible to mind tricks, and towards the end of the war they started (and I believe the Army of Light also) recruiting children.

 

Revan's forces suffer from none of these weaknesses, they have superior technology, the caliber of Force User at the top is far more impressive and their Sith Assassins - trained on Malachor V - are extremely deadly. And finally those non-Force sensitives among their ranks are highly trained (see Atton Rand) and in some cases dormant Force Users.

Also the BoS do have something tipping in their favor, the Gloom Walkers(elite Sith unit, high success rate in operations). I'm not recalling Revan's SE having an sort of highly regarded or successful special unit in his army(barring the Sith Assassins, but Kaan has Sith Assassins too).

 

Of course their victories were the success of Bane, though if he leads them here that could prove useful.

 

Kaan also does have spies, most notably Umbaran Shadow Assassins which can hide their presence in The Force and also hide from sight and sound.

Revan's Sith Empire has special units as well, they have Sith Commandos and the like, I mean special forces or that kind were pretty standard in all militaries, they just don't have a book written about them.

 

True, but I'd say Revan's forces are better, they had superior training on Malachor, much of Revan's plans revolved around assassination and the destabilization of infrastructure - and then of course we have HK-47.

[October]

Well, it really doesn't. Instead lets look at it from a differing perspective. The Republic managed to hold off the Brotherhood of Darkness for 10 years, and ultimately destroyed them. Revan's Sith Empire all but defeated the Republic within 2 years, and would have been totally annihilated within a third.

 

Yes the Republic was severely weakened at this point, but so was the Republic in the New Sith Wars, the dark age and the ensuing thousand year struggle reduced the Republic to as Wookieepedia states:

 

...a mere rump state surrounding the Core Worlds, Inner Colonies, and few other worlds outside it...

 

And they still managed to beat the Brotherhood, the only reason Revan's Sith Empire was defeated was because Malak betrayed Revan and then Revan was redeemed and defeated Malak - the latter at the very least is not going to happen here, and if it didn't happen then the Republic would have been wiped out Darth Revan or not.

Unfortunately, without the Star Forge, I don't think we can use that as an argument here, since it helped supplement Revan's forces.

[sell-dog]

Unfortunately, without the Star Forge, I don't think we can use that as an argument here, since it helped supplement Revan's forces.

 

^^ I agree with this.

 

Also, restating the fact, that the Brotherhood has Bane who is the best individually in this this war. Brotherhood can also use Kas'im for individual missions which is definitely a great option as well. If we're assuming the Bane and all the unity on the Brotherhood side we could put Bane back with the Gloom Walkers as a sort of Vader with the 501st role.

[LadyKulvax]

is made very clear that the Sith had the Republic surrounded at the Inner Rim and controlled everything else.

 

To stop the complete domination of the Sith took the Mandalorians, the Republic(Jedi - controlled) and the Hutts all attacking one after another, the only reason the Brotherhood lost was out maneuvering on the part of Hoth and Farfhalla, the Sith were absolutely the dominant force in the galaxy for centuries.

 

They still should have won the Seventh Battle of Ruusan but Kaan was insane and gave up a Force-based clear victory for Hand-to-Hand combat, Kaan isn't crazy here and is a highly skilled tactician.

 

The Brotherhood also has Qordis, Kopecz and Kas'im as well as Bane, Githany, etc.. as well as numerous Admirals such as Adrianna Nyras.

[Airmo]

is made very clear that the Sith had the Republic surrounded at the Inner Rim and controlled everything else.

 

To stop the complete domination of the Sith took the Mandalorians, the Republic(Jedi - controlled) and the Hutts all attacking one after another, the only reason the Brotherhood lost was out maneuvering on the part of Hoth and Farfhalla, the Sith were absolutely the dominant force in the galaxy for centuries.

 

They still should have won the Seventh Battle of Ruusan but Kaan was insane and gave up a Force-based clear victory for Hand-to-Hand combat, Kaan isn't crazy here and is a highly skilled tactician.

 

The Brotherhood also has Qordis, Kopecz and Kas'im as well as Bane, Githany, etc.. as well as numerous Admirals such as Adrianna Nyras.

 

What turned Kaan crazy in the first place? Been a while since I read the books but wasn't it that he was losing? So if Revan gains an upper hand isn't he gonna slip? And on Bane what's to stop him from screwing over Kaan again, I mean he did so because he saw an all equal Sith Empire weak and partly because of Revan's teachings and now he could possibly meet the man himself and then turn on Kaan this time as well. Revan can have a man on the inside.

[LadyKulvax]

Actually it wasn't losing the war, he was making sketchy decisions when they were winning, what drove him over the edge was the arguing in his Sith Council as well as the fact that he was having visions of his own demise and the destruction of the Sith, which he had no answer for.

 

Also Bane would still see Revan and his empire just the same as he saw any other group that didn't abide his hardcore Rule of Two, Revan's Empire was even worse at backstabbing than Kaan's Brotherhood was, Bane cannot well go and create a third faction here, so I imagine that he just stays as is.

[Beniboybling]

I don't buy that Kaan was winning the war, at the very least victory would have come at the cost of almost the total destruction of the Brotherhood. It is made quite clear in the Darth Bane trilogy that the war of attrition that Lord Hoth and the Army of Light pushed for, a war which merely ended on Ruusan, depleted Kaan's forces massively.

 

In the battle of Ruusan itself, the Brotherhood were slaughtered and reduced to a tenth of their initial strength, sure the Army of Light suffered heavy casualties as well, but the state the Brotherhood were in, with their armies and fleets decimated, and the ranks of the Sith depleted to the point of recruiting children, well that's not the kind of force that is going to go on the conquer the galaxy with anything left remaining. They would have destroyed each other.

Unfortunately, without the Star Forge, I don't think we can use that as an argument here, since it helped supplement Revan's forces.

I don't see why not, it was not a case of the Republic being unable to destroy them faster than the Sith could build them, but that the Star Forge created a massive army they could not overcome. Revan doesn't have the Star Forge, but he does retain the peak of his ground and naval forces, a force that completely crushed the Republic within 2 years.

 

Regardless, he does how the powerhouses of the Core, and shipyards in the Outer Rim, to sustain a war of attrition, but I don't think it will come down to that, Revan will quickly eliminate Bane and the Council, then clean up.

Also Bane would still see Revan and his empire just the same as he saw any other group that didn't abide his hardcore Rule of Two, Revan's Empire was even worse at backstabbing than Kaan's Brotherhood was, Bane cannot well go and create a third faction here, so I imagine that he just stays as is.

I have to disagree here. Bane idolized Revan as great Sith Lord, and it was his teachings, that a master should never have any more than one apprentice, that created the Rule of Two. Not only did Revan's Empire abide by that rule, but they only had two Dark Lords of the Sith (who claimed the Darth title) - everyone else were just underlings.

 

Bane didn't hate all Sith who came before him, he was just a reformist. He did hate the Brotherhood of Darkness who completely perverted Sith tradition, abolishing hierarchy and power, and rejecting ancient Sith texts that would provide real power. I don't see why Bane would fight for an organisation he utterly despised, and would not join one that can give he real power, marginalize the dilution of power, and annihilate the Brotherhood.

 

Remember backstabbing was not what Bane was opposed to, betraying and usurping your master is something he practically encouraged, what he disdained was weak individuals banding together to overthrow their masters, and the overall dilution of power across multiple Sith Lords. Revan imposed his "Rule of Two" logic across the entire Empire, which made it strong. Sure there are lots of Sith, but that is not really a dilution of power considering that only Malak and Revan held true authority and were able to concentrate Sith teaching in themselves, the rest were just minions. Its far more akin to Darth Sidious and Vader and their acolyte underlings, just different names.

 

So yes, I think Bane will betray Kaan at the drop of a hat and join Revan. Revan will probably then get him to off Malak (who I doubt he trusts and IMO is weaker than Bane) and make Bane his apprentice, then trash the Brotherhood.

[sell-dog]

So yes, I think Bane will betray Kaan at the drop of a hat and join Revan. Revan will probably then get him to off Malak (who I doubt he trusts and IMO is weaker than Bane) and make Bane his apprentice, then trash the Brotherhood.

 

Remember that one time Malak betrayed Revan at the drop of a hat...

 

As I've said before, in my opinion Revan's Sith Empire more loyalty issues than the Brotherhood does

Edited May 29, 2014 by sell-dog

[Beniboybling]

Remember that one time Malak betrayed Revan at the drop of a hat...

 

As I've said before, in my opinion Revan's Sith Empire more loyalty issues than the Brotherhood does

Which I addressed here

 

I would however bring the likelihood of Malak's betrayal into question for several reasons:

 

 

1. It took two years of war for Malak to be disgruntled enough to betray Revan.
    
    
   
2. It was a bit of a circumstantial pot-shot and probably not pre-planned. He was separated from his master, and a major Republic war asset - Bastila Shan - was onboard, effectively the last thing standing between the Empire and victory. Such favourable circumstances are unlikely to occur until the very end of this war.
    
    
   
3. Malak in part regretted his decision, because it made him look weak for not confronting Revan in person, and in this case it would jeopardize the war effort in a dozen different ways.
   

 

So I think its certainly not definite that Malak will betray Revan, if even likely. At least not until the end of the war when he can be sure he will win and easily consolidate power, and by then he'd probably have replaced him with Bane.

Edited May 29, 2014 by Beniboybling

[TrainingPigeon]

I had a little read here and i think you guys need to remember that the characters like kaan,revan, bane and so on have minds of there own, who says it will be kaan vs revan in the end, The outcome of war is determined by the first and last skirmish. who says Revan or Kaan will last till the end, i put my money on Revan vs Bane, you think bane's lust for power would suddenly stop, he could just as easily come to power and taken over. We can assume alot and what im saying will most likely get smashed to bits by whoever writes the next post, but i think they are'nt mindless chess pieces or robots the key element here is heart i think it would of made bane more powerful faced with Revan, because to be honest Kaan is more the sideous type with his mind trick etc that he couldnt even at his peak come close to Revan 1vs1 which it always comes down to with starwars the shatterpoint.

 

sorry for my bad spelling but i hope you guys get the jist of what im saying.

[ZahirS]

Revan Empire by the fact was better controlled than Kaan's, Revan also knew the power to kill Kaan's brotherhood?

The mind bomb.