marauders just admitted it :(

[XeniusX]

My Mara is Ba'kru. Played all of the first few days of ranked this season, got bored, and haven't played since. The only other melee were either Sins, well set up due to their burst with no need for ramp-up, and Juggs, the FOTM due to the ridiculous 30 second ED gift of the devs. Most of the matches consisted of CC fests, and if it was a 4v4 DPS scenario, then as the one with zero protection while CC'd and far worse overall defense against what ranked presents right now it just got old.

 

Again, just look at where things are. Say you're Electronetted as a Mara; you are left unable to Force Camo and easily kited by ranged who want to burn you down. You can pop your saber ward and adrenal to lessen the damage, but then you'll likely be eaten up when you're stunlocked sometime after and dead before your resolve gets high enough to help you. You could of course break free, after which the CC fest begins again. Had you popped Undying Rage, you could have sailed through the initial burst, only to lose half your health after the fact regardless, then be stunlocked after with the same result. A Sin could shroud through much of it, on top of having two stuns and an interrupt in the form of low slash, allowing burst while the target is stunned, unlike Force Choke. A Jugg could ignore it until he's below 30%, pop ED even if stunlocked, and laugh all the way back up to full health. That is, of course, after his unstunnable window has passed, after leaping in and hard rooting the opponent. That's just one scenario that often plays out and does not by any means go in a Mara's favor.

 

The best part: while all this is happening, you've started from zero in terms of rage, and have to build up to be able to do any meaningful damage.

 

There were some recent steps taken to help Marauders out in PvP/PvE--honestly they only get to stick around in Progression because skilled players enjoy them and they add the situational benefit of Bloodthirst. The difference between the highest and some of the lower but well-executed parses is pure RNG. Did you get Gore/Rupture procs or not? The same issue shows up in PvP: ranged and melee DPS who have their hardest attacks auto-proc off other skills or have them guaranteed by the situation, i.e. opponent stunned, taking Damage over Time, etc. vs Maras flailing in hopes of another Gore/Rupture proc. This is a pain for PvE, but death in the short conflict of PvP.

 

Is the class broken? No. Does it need fixes to make it as viable as other classes? Yes. I don't want more damage or more burst thrown at it so that we melt players even faster, just reward for playing well and the means to survive and be viable in both forms of PvP.

 

As to your claim that others turned this against you, this is the kind of thing that made me reply to you as I did in the first place:

 

 

 

Do not even try to act like you did nothing to goad a response out of others in this thread. You talk about "throwing down" and "getting nasty" above as if you hadn't been for quite some time now. You're not some kind-hearted soul who was done wrong for just trying to share his thoughts. You acted like a harda55, and some people just gave it back. My reply wasn't caustic, it was just to the point: you don't see where the class is lacking despite it being your main because you don't play it against the best players. Yes, you run into them in regs, but 4v4ing regularly shows you where each class really is, all the more when there's no healer to help. You not realizing that 400-500K on a tank isn't a stretch shows your overall knowledge of PvP. I'm not bashing you, just pointing out facts in that regard. I played in season one, and I played more than enough matches in pre-season for two to see exactly what was coming. I went and did open-world on Outlaws Den with some of the best players on the server, and one of the top Sins, who's also rather skilled on his Mara, commented as to how brutally short Maras fall in comparison to the top classes in 4v4 and 1v1 situations at the moment.

 

I'm speaking as someone who plays the class, enjoys it, and has taken the time to be realistic about where we sit. The top players in every other class sit at least 200 points above Maras, with the greatest disparity being almost 1000 points. That is more than adequate evidence of where we fall in the PvP shuffle right now. The facts are there, read them or ignore them, your choice. Bottom line is that multiple people in this thread have presented them to you, you decided to get personal and take digs when others did no more than point out that it's one thing for you to give your opinion and another entirely for you to try and tell those who have done what can be done with this class where it sits in PvP.

 

If there's more you wish to discuss calmly, I'm all for it, but I'm not going to even respond if you can't manage that. I see nothing unfair with that.

 

Well, i just wanted to add my support of this wall of text. Well written and i agree to most of it. Maras are at this point of game more than viable and i love the class and especially Carnage. The RNG aspect of it needs to go in order to get the kills you deserve after countless rage building and massacre spamming. Most players have on demand burst only waiting on that cooldown while we have to do a lot for the setup of an actual burst.

 

I rarely play without healer in team just for the sole fact that marauders need so much team help its ridicilous. No other class is so dependant on heals or guard help.

 

The RNG aspect of force scream should be a stack of somekind imo aswell as Undying Rage needs a rework cause right now it's mostly useless (reminding Bioware that you ****ed up our UR because of SYNERGY with healers but you give juggs and guardians a heal to full button? please enlighten me on this logic).

[PifferPuff]

Trying to wrap my mind around all of this, but...

 

The more I read, the more it seems to be a smash-monkey BAWW thread. I know, I know, smash monkeys miss their OP'd-ness, and their claim to epeen fame by just face-smashing one attack. It required very little skill, and forethought to manage to top the charts in PvP. Honestly, in the past, it just required them to stand in the middle of a crowd and faceroll smash. Now, however, the recent changes to the AC require them to adopt an actual rotation, situation awareness, and tactical adaptation: traits that were already required for all other ACs to do well, prior thereto, and absent from smash-tree maras/sents.

 

I will, however, agree with the caveat about mid-tree Shadow/Sins being the most dangerous ATM. Even playing tank mode against them, is trippin' ballz tough. Even playing a fully PvP-geared min-maxed Tankasin in OWPvP, against a slightly lesser PvE-geared Shadow ... the best I can hope for is a draw. Even if I do win against them, it is by a razor-thin margin due to me getting the first hit out of stealth, and some RNG in my favor. Literally, my HPs are at almost zero, but usually, I'm either stealthing away (after hopefully killing off their companion first), or dead. If I am playing against them in a WZ, or if they have even half the expertise I have, my chances of killing them are almost zero.

 

All other classes I fight against with this particular Tankasin setup, I can manage very well against (mostly win - 'cos I'm the 1st to hit; sometimes lose - 'cos they managed a better rotation or well-timed CC's/stuns --- but, all-in-all, fair 1v1 ...assuming fairly even gear ratings). Mid-tree DPS Shadow/Sins, in my opinion are the FOTM (but then so are Sorc/Sages too... Hmm....). Or, they could just be scissors to my paper-tank. LOL. Or, they are perhaps - dare I say (now that they are finally in a good place) - almost overpowered: their burst and stuns are simply insanely good.

 

So yeah, OP, sorry to hear about your favorite AC losing its herpa-derp-smash-faceroll-combo-breaker-easy-peasy-I-am-winning-OP'd-Epeen!!1!ONE1!! ...But, at least you now know what it is like for the rest of us who were on the business end of your silly and repetitive smashes all these years. So, as at least one poster had already stated, "L2P" buddy. It's like a whole new class. We all had to adapt with the changes, and only good players can truly roll with the punches. Good luck.

Edited June 18, 2014 by PifferPuff

[XeniusX]

Trying to wrap my mind around all of this, but...

 

The more I read, the more it seems to be a smash-monkey BAWW thread. I know, I know, smash monkeys miss their OP'd-ness, and their claim to epeen fame by just face-smashing one attack. It required very little skill, and forethought to manage to top the charts in PvP. Honestly, in the past, it just required them to stand in the middle of a crowd and faceroll smash. Now, however, the recent changes to the AC require them to adopt an actual rotation, situation awareness, and tactical adaptation: traits that were already required for all other ACs to do well, prior thereto, and absent from smash-tree maras/sents.

 

I will, however, agree with the caveat about mid-tree Shadow/Sins being the most dangerous ATM. Even playing tank mode against them, is trippin' ballz tough. Even playing a fully PvP-geared min-maxed Tankasin in OWPvP, against a slightly lesser PvE-geared Shadow ... the best I can hope for is a draw. Even if I do win against them, it is by a razor-thin margin due to me getting the first hit out of stealth, and some RNG in my favor. Literally, my HPs are at almost zero, but usually, I'm either stealthing away (after hopefully killing off their companion first), or dead. If I am playing against them in a WZ, or if they have even half the expertise I have, my chances of killing them are almost zero.

 

All other classes I fight against with this particular Tankasin setup, I can manage very well against (mostly win - 'cos I'm the 1st to hit; sometimes lose - 'cos they managed a better rotation or well-timed CC's/stuns --- but, all-in-all, fair 1v1 ...assuming fairly even gear ratings). Mid-tree DPS Shadow/Sins, in my opinion are the FOTM (but then so are Sorc/Sages too... Hmm....). Or, they could just be scissors to my paper-tank. LOL. Or, they are perhaps - dare I say (now that they are finally in a good place) - almost overpowered: their burst and stuns are simply insanely good.

 

So yeah, OP, sorry to hear about your favorite AC losing its herpa-derp-smash-faceroll-combo-breaker-easy-peasy-I-am-winning-OP'd-Epeen!!1!ONE1!! ...But, at least you now know what it is like for the rest of us who were on the business end of your silly and repetitive smashes all these years. So, as at least one poster had already stated, "L2P" buddy. It's like a whole new class. We all had to adapt with the changes, and only good players can truly roll with the punches. Good luck.

 

Well, i agree that most statements are unwaranted and maras are doing quite well and .. wait ..wait wait wait.. Let me get this straight, the OP assassin in pvp is here to lecture ? LOL, **** please.

[PifferPuff]

Well, i agree that most statements are unwaranted and maras are doing quite well and .. wait ..wait wait wait.. Let me get this straight, the OP assassin in pvp is here to lecture ? LOL, **** please.

 

Why, yes son. So, start takin' notes. LOL

[XeniusX]

Why, yes son. So, start takin' notes. LOL

 

Go back to your assassin/shadow forums and take your childlike comments with you

[Prototypemind]

Why, yes son. So, start takin' notes. LOL

 

As all of your input comes from the perspective of someone who plays another class, your points have zero relevance. If you want to make statements directly from experiences as a Mara/Sent in ranked and unranked, I'm sure no one will have any problem taking you seriously, but Sins/Shadows in any form are in a much better place overall for PvP than Maras/Sins. Far more solo survivability, no issue hunting and going in there without a pocket healer. You're really not adding anything to the thread, but if you want to continue posting your 'herp-a derps' and other childishness that's on you. Considering that in unranked against many players all you need to do is stun lock and maul/recklessness/discharge until death, I'm amazed that you'd even try and say Maras are easy mode.

 

The lowest ranked Sin/Shadow sits over 200 pts above the highest ranked Mara/Sent for a reason. If I play anymore ranked this season, it will probably be with my Sin, because the utility is that much better regardless of what you have on the rest of the team. No worries though, your posts show where your maturity level is, if not your actual age.

Edited June 18, 2014 by Prototypemind

[PifferPuff]

Go back to your assassin/shadow forums and take your childlike comments with you

 

Bwahahahahaha ... Oh wait, you're being serious. Let me laugh harder.

 

oookay, I'm on my way back to my greener side of the fence. Later.

Edited June 19, 2014 by PifferPuff

[Ehbuse]

Warrior crying sin is op

 

Ha ha

 

 

Jokes are funny

[Skettitangles]

Well this thread certainly went quiet... Let's summarize what we have agreed/disagreed on and see if it prompts any further discussion...

 

1. Marauder/Sentinel performance in solo ranked season 2 is down compared to season 1. This appears to be correct and the reasons behind this are subject to many points of view. It does appear to have something to do with solo survivability in ranked arenas against top players who know how to effectively shut/focus down this class

 

2. Marauder/Sentinel survivability in all forms of PvE content is NOT an issue at all and the class, in the hands of a skilled player, has a place in any progression raid team with any sense

 

3. A change to UR to improve the class's solo PvP survivability is by far the most popular suggestion in this thread

 

4. The Marauder/Sentinel, when teamed with a healer in PvP, is capable of performing at very high level

 

5. Players of other classes who are enjoying the current state of the game are encouraged to give input on this thread because for a long time they were on the receiving end of this class's op game status in PvP (just kidding)

 

So with all that said I'd encourage future posters to put forward their single most important potential change to the class that would improve solo ranked survivability without upsetting the balance the class has in PvE. There's already been a number of interesting suggestions made. There have been valid points of view shared by both sides in the discussion.

 

OK, go

[Lotharofxev]

Marauder/Sentinel survivability in all forms of PvE content is NOT an issue at all and the class, in the hands of a skilled player, has a place in any progression raid team with any sense

 

Survivability for any class in PvE is not an issue.

 

If a Marauder takes a "skilled" player to find a spot in a NiM raid, but any herp-derp Sniper or Merc with a 180 barrel is welcome, there might be a problem.

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

 

Are you on Crack?

 

First - nerfing one class doesn't make yours better.

 

Second - you're comparing a ranged class to a melee class.

 

Third - Mercs have NO survivability? LOL @ that. L2P . Stun, knockback, two shields, Hydraulic override, and that's off the top of my head.

 

Mercs ROUTINELY lead the DPS boards in Wzs. I daresay, the problem isn't with the class, it's you.

 

Are you on crack sir? Our stun and knockback are at melee range, where the hell are you getting 2 shields from? HO is NOT a DCD it's a Utility CD, past that we have jack ****. We have some of the *******st survivability of ANY class in PvP and we are almost always the first to get attacked. I used to play my merc in PvP as Pyro and i would ALWAYS get tunneled and die, mainly because of 2 reasons, Reason A. There are NO PvP healers on impside none whatsoever, if i see one, i actually question the existance of it. and Reason B. Impside teams for PUG PvP suck ***, (I'm talking The Harbinger) Trust me, they have 0 coordination, whereas in Pubside, we have nearly flawless coordination in Pug WZ's.

[Vodrin]

Go back to your assassin/shadow forums and take your childlike comments with you

 

So your saying tank sins are OP in PvP?

[DawwsoN]

http://i.imgur.com/b14hVVn.gif

[XeniusX]

So your saying tank sins are OP in PvP?

 

Yes oh yes please jump to conclusions.

 

No, i don't really care if they are or aren't although i think they are just fine but this is not my expertise. My comment was more of a attack towards idiots commenting on things they don't know anything about and shouting "herpderp" here and "derpsmash" there rather than a cry of anything at all.

 

Shadows/assassin dps however is fluent, easy and *********** laughable. Whenever i play my sin i can't but laugh and cry of how easy it is. Shroud, teleport, stealth, deflection, on demand burst and so much controll its *********** ridicilous!

Now i am talking about middle tree and no i am not crying nerf, i would rather see marauders get a little bit QoL. The madness spec might be a tad over the top tho in both Classes.

[Lotharofxev]

Are you on crack sir? Our stun and knockback are at melee range, where the hell are you getting 2 shields from? HO is NOT a DCD it's a Utility CD, past that we have jack ****. We have some of the *******st survivability of ANY class in PvP and we are almost always the first to get attacked. I used to play my merc in PvP as Pyro and i would ALWAYS get tunneled and die, mainly because of 2 reasons, Reason A. There are NO PvP healers on impside none whatsoever, if i see one, i actually question the existance of it. and Reason B. Impside teams for PUG PvP suck ***, (I'm talking The Harbinger) Trust me, they have 0 coordination, whereas in Pubside, we have nearly flawless coordination in Pug WZ's.

 

1) Try a new insult. At least be original while wrong.

 

2) Two shields? Really? That's foreign to you? Hmm. Perhaps I mis-characterized. Shield + Kolto / Adrenaline rush.

 

3) If people are attacking Mercs (non-heals) over healers, then mad because bad.

 

4) A pyro merc by DEFINITION is up close and personal. Flamethrower and Flame Sweep have a limited range. Sheesh.

 

5) Who cares about your server? We're talking class issues.

 

6) I've played Merc Healer and Merc Ranged. Never, EVER did I complain about survivability. Again, the problem isn't the class - it's YOU.

[Skettitangles]

Survivability for any class in PvE is not an issue.

 

If a Marauder takes a "skilled" player to find a spot in a NiM raid, but any herp-derp Sniper or Merc with a 180 barrel is welcome, there might be a problem.

 

Has this ever happened to you?

[Skettitangles]

http://i.imgur.com/b14hVVn.gif

 

This just might be the answer we're looking for

[Vodrin]

Yes oh yes please jump to conclusions.

 

No, i don't really care if they are or aren't although i think they are just fine but this is not my expertise. My comment was more of a attack towards idiots commenting on things they don't know anything about and shouting "herpderp" here and "derpsmash" there rather than a cry of anything at all.

 

Shadows/assassin dps however is fluent, easy and *********** laughable. Whenever i play my sin i can't but laugh and cry of how easy it is. Shroud, teleport, stealth, deflection, on demand burst and so much controll its *********** ridicilous!

Now i am talking about middle tree and no i am not crying nerf, i would rather see marauders get a little bit QoL. The madness spec might be a tad over the top tho in both Classes.

 

I think deception is still stronger than madness right now, and deception is one of the easiest classes to play respectably well in PvP, although there is still a good deal that can be squeezed from the class by very good players. Sent/mara is much more challenging which is why I will always play my sent more than my shadow.

[Przemo_No]

Trying to wrap my mind around all of this, but...

 

The more I read, the more it seems to be a smash-monkey BAWW thread. I know, I know, smash monkeys miss their OP'd-ness, and their claim to epeen fame by just face-smashing one attack. It required very little skill, and forethought to manage to top the charts in PvP. Honestly, in the past, it just required them to stand in the middle of a crowd and faceroll smash. Now, however, the recent changes to the AC require them to adopt an actual rotation, situation awareness, and tactical adaptation: traits that were already required for all other ACs to do well, prior thereto, and absent from smash-tree maras/sents.

 

So yeah, OP, sorry to hear about your favorite AC losing its herpa-derp-smash-faceroll-combo-breaker-easy-peasy-I-am-winning-OP'd-Epeen!!1!ONE1!! ...But, at least you now know what it is like for the rest of us who were on the business end of your silly and repetitive smashes all these years. So, as at least one poster had already stated, "L2P" buddy. It's like a whole new class. We all had to adapt with the changes, and only good players can truly roll with the punches. Good luck.

 

I somehow agree. I have a bad luck of doing PVP with "currently worst performing class", thus it came to my Marauder that basically is just stunned from full HP to zero. On low levels I cannot even have the skills to avoid that.

But I do not complain, because of all the "smash-monkey" story at the beginning.

 

By those early days I was playing Infiltration Shadow and believe me got my *** handed to me many times by "monkeys". Now, it's basically "the revenge of the Shadow/Sin". That I somehow ENJOY

[Sazama]

I to have a Mara. lvl 55 and i had it since pre-launch of this game. plus i'm a beta tester as well. I seen so many changes with this Class and it just keeps getting worse and worse, hell that goes for Jugg class to. What it is, if you do well with this class, There are those that feel its to powerful or unfair and bluh bluh freaking bluh. So they Cry and Gripe and Moan till the devs changes this, and that, and not for the Better neither. So now we have what the Criers want us to be, ( EASY PICKINGS ) and they now can feel big and bad.

 

So save your Legit complaints because the Criers will just cry and your good ideas will be SMASHED b4 your eyes, Just like the Jugg/Mara class has been....

 

Yep the criers are what ruin it for everybody. +1 this.

[Vincire]

I'm playing a Marauder alt now and at the low level brackets (he is currently 33), I'm not experiencing many problems playing the class other than recognizing his "hard" counter classes. I'm not sure how it will shake out at 55 but I'll stick with him since he's a fun character to play with a lot of flash

[chillshock]

If you havent played something else in pvp since 2.8 the mara feels a bit squishy and pvp feels difficult and dangerous.

 

If you have played something else like PT, Jugg or Scoundrel before... mara feels like a big effing killsign.

 

I still hope this is due to me needing to adapt to the way my mara works now.

[LordMatthewS]

I agree with all of this.