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PvP Tank gearing question


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Background:- I've been pvping on my carnage marauder for good a long while now, whilst it is great fun to push out big numbers in damage it is very often frustrating to die in a matter of seconds as a pure dps class with limited survivability waiting for the force filed to come down to get back into the action in a huttball or hypergate or voidstar etc hence why I've recently leveled up my tank guardian for the purpose of pvping, I've had great fun getting into the thick of it, taunting everyone and taking a shed load of damage whilst dishing some out, albeit very small amounts in comparison to my mara, I completely get that it should be a lot lower as a compromise to surviving a beating that my mara wouldn't have a hope in hell of surviving.

I also play a sorc healer and a Commando healer quite extensively so I completely understand the NEED to gear a tank in mitigation gear such as defense/absorb augments instead of raw hit-points as they... nearly wrote a whole explanation as to why mitigation is better than raw health which I think is unnecessary here..

I've read up on these forums quite a bit on gearing my guard recently which has answered a few of my questions such as:

Is it better to stack defence or absorb stats? - much to my suprise people are saying stack fortitude (makes sense when people explain) many player Vs player attacks ignore defence/shield so stacking avoidance is pointless in favour of raw health (much better explanations excist) this is much to my suprise after playing a tank in another big mmo seeing 'bloked' 'parried' etc was much more desirable than soaking up some damage.

Seondary to that people are saying Defence is a better stat for a guard than shield, why would that be please?

 

Question:- Best relic to use as a tank?

I've got a complete set of Orboran gear now bar one relic as I can't decide which is best to use either, Fortunate Redoubt(think this one is a cert) so, it's between reactive warding or shield amplifiation, what does the community thinks is the best please?

also is the shield granted by the reatctive warding proc seperate to the normal guardian shield? in effect giving the player two shileds or is it tied into the standard shiled (thinking of equipping this to my marauder also as an extra survivability tool, only if it's a seperate shield granted by the relic)

 

Secondary Question :- I'm using a shield generator whilst in Soresu stance (tank), I was thinking of grinding out a second set of gear for if I feel like switching to shien stance(dps) which got me thinking if a tech generator is really any better than my shiled generator, as my shield generator gives x% shiled chance is there any benefit to equipping a tech generator instead, i.e. do the stat increases gained by a tech generator outweigh the x% shiled chane gained with the shield gen? seems at a glance without any number crunching to me that a shield gen is a better item to use even as a dps player. - thoughts please.

 

Thanks in advance for any constructive replies, regards, Steve.

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Background:- I've been pvping on my carnage marauder for good a long while now, whilst it is great fun to push out big numbers in damage it is very often frustrating to die in a matter of seconds as a pure dps class with limited survivability waiting for the force filed to come down to get back into the action in a huttball or hypergate or voidstar etc hence why I've recently leveled up my tank guardian for the purpose of pvping, I've had great fun getting into the thick of it, taunting everyone and taking a shed load of damage whilst dishing some out, albeit very small amounts in comparison to my mara, I completely get that it should be a lot lower as a compromise to surviving a beating that my mara wouldn't have a hope in hell of surviving.

I also play a sorc healer and a Commando healer quite extensively so I completely understand the NEED to gear a tank in mitigation gear such as defense/absorb augments instead of raw hit-points as they... nearly wrote a whole explanation as to why mitigation is better than raw health which I think is unnecessary here..

I've read up on these forums quite a bit on gearing my guard recently which has answered a few of my questions such as:

Is it better to stack defence or absorb stats? - much to my suprise people are saying stack fortitude (makes sense when people explain) many player Vs player attacks ignore defence/shield so stacking avoidance is pointless in favour of raw health (much better explanations excist) this is much to my suprise after playing a tank in another big mmo seeing 'bloked' 'parried' etc was much more desirable than soaking up some damage.

Seondary to that people are saying Defence is a better stat for a guard than shield, why would that be please?

 

Question:- Best relic to use as a tank?

I've got a complete set of Orboran gear now bar one relic as I can't decide which is best to use either, Fortunate Redoubt(think this one is a cert) so, it's between reactive warding or shield amplifiation, what does the community thinks is the best please?

also is the shield granted by the reatctive warding proc seperate to the normal guardian shield? in effect giving the player two shileds or is it tied into the standard shiled (thinking of equipping this to my marauder also as an extra survivability tool, only if it's a seperate shield granted by the relic)

 

Secondary Question :- I'm using a shield generator whilst in Soresu stance (tank), I was thinking of grinding out a second set of gear for if I feel like switching to shien stance(dps) which got me thinking if a tech generator is really any better than my shiled generator, as my shield generator gives x% shiled chance is there any benefit to equipping a tech generator instead, i.e. do the stat increases gained by a tech generator outweigh the x% shiled chane gained with the shield gen? seems at a glance without any number crunching to me that a shield gen is a better item to use even as a dps player. - thoughts please.

 

Thanks in advance for any constructive replies, regards, Steve.

 

Focus/Tech generators have Force/Tech power which increase damage from Force/Tech attacks. Some DPS use a shield so they can alternate and not feel as much of a hit, but the survivability increase of the shield WHILE in DPS stance is so low it's better to use a generator/Focus unless you plan on constantly stance dancing.

 

As for Relics, the BIS PVP relics are reactive warding and Shield amplification, NOT fortunate redoubt unlike PVE. In PVE, majority of attacks are defendable and Fortunate Redoubt adds a larger stat budget. IN PVP, Most attacks are NOT defendable whereas most attacks that don't crit are shieldable, so the SA is better, but not by much. Personally I'd go with a DPS relic in the secondary slot, mit stats really are bad in PVP nowadays with the way stats break down, with defense not factoring for F/T and Shield not factoring for crits, it's really not worth it to stack mit IN PVP.

 

The Devs are working to remedy this but for now it's the truth.

 

The Reactive Warding is amazing for PVP though. Flat mitigation to everything, AWWWWWEEESOME.

Edited by GrandLordMenace
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A high endurance tank makes little sense in PVP, yes there is a call for a tank that will be 40-45k in pvp. He is called a target and will melt fast. A true tank would want to mitigate damage and make it easier for the healer to keep t hem up. It should not be a challenge to keep a tank healed.
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A high endurance tank makes little sense in PVP, yes there is a call for a tank that will be 40-45k in pvp. He is called a target and will melt fast. A true tank would want to mitigate damage and make it easier for the healer to keep t hem up. It should not be a challenge to keep a tank healed.

 

TTK of full mitigation tank @7k dps average PvP distribution - 11.5 seconds

TTK of full endurance tank @7k dps average PvP distribution - 13.5 seconds

 

7k dps average PvP distribution post mitigation vs mitigation tank: 3014.69 dps

7k dps average PvP distribution post mitigation vs endurance tank: 3122.21 dps

 

See the problem? You take 3.56% more damage by going for max endurance, but in return you get 21.7% more health. This is even more obvious vs classes that are heavy on internal/elemental (these calculations assumed 15% internal/elemental damage, but Vanguards/Powertechs for example are 50-65% elemental damage which ignores all mitigation), where that 3.56% more damage could be as low as 1%. Also sages completely ignore the defense stat.

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A high endurance tank makes little sense in PVP, yes there is a call for a tank that will be 40-45k in pvp. He is called a target and will melt fast. A true tank would want to mitigate damage and make it easier for the healer to keep t hem up. It should not be a challenge to keep a tank healed.

 

You are significantly missing the point. MOST of that mitigation has VERY LITTLE effect. This isn't PVP where mitigation is king, most of what you are hit by in PVP laughs at damage. LAUGHS.

 

The only things that matter in PVP tanks are having a shield, having DR, and having a health pool. If mitigation were the epic kaboom bomb you seem to think it is, Shadow Tanks would be BIS with the mit statpool in PVP, which they aren't, since kinetic ward is cut through like a piece of wet tissue by crits...

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I am not missing the point. I just said, purely thinking of a tank as just high endurance was not my goal, nor should it be the goal of most tanks. There should be a balance between mitigation and endurance. By having the augments more focused on mitigation not fortitude, your ability to stay alive should not be hampered at all. Edited by Tirhakah
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I am not missing the point. I just said, purely thinking of a tank as just high endurance was not my goal, nor should it be the goal of most tanks. There should be a balance between mitigation and endurance. By having the augments more focused on mitigation not fortitude, your ability to stay alive should not be hampered at all.

 

There is a balance though... You aren't using DPS mods/enhancements :p

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I had heard absorb is functional in PVP, that it is the only mitigation stat that works in PVP. Cany anyone confirm?

 

I played a tank in the old days (launch to 2.0) then switched to DPS. In the old days it was just "get moar HP"...

 

It sounds like it is till true.

 

--Me

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I had heard absorb is functional in PVP, that it is the only mitigation stat that works in PVP. Cany anyone confirm?

 

I played a tank in the old days (launch to 2.0) then switched to DPS. In the old days it was just "get moar HP"...

 

It sounds like it is till true.

 

--Me

 

The thing is absorb works off of shield, and shield defends against everything but crits and DOT's. Because crits and DoT's are well quite common, I'd go with endurance for PVP at least.

 

For PVE I'd go with KBN's graphs. His graphs in PVP are also quite functional, especially since on TEH there are relatively few DoT classes besides madness sorc.

Edited by GrandLordMenace
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