ikinai Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Uh oh, the fans have "discredited" SWTOR, what are we going to do?! Dance, that's what. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Buuuuuuuuuuuuut there no longer is such a thing as T-canon and C-canon. There is only Canon and Legends. And SW:TOR falls squarely into the Legends category. Just like the Jedi Academy games, the Thrawn Trilogy, the entire works of Karen Traviss and anything else that is not The Movies or The TV-shows made by Lucas himself. Oh and FYI, the fans don't agree (they never do) and Wookieepedia is not "Official" since it is an open source wiki like wikipedia and anyone can pilfer with it. PS. nothing is DISCREDITED as you say. No more than anything else in the EU. Since C-canon has always meant computer games and T-canon has always meant Tv-shows, the real headline should be "Star Wars Fans "OFFICIALLY" rate Bioware's Star Wars: The Old Republic as C-canon just like all the other SW computer games out there" Of course, that wouldn't be as sensationalist and wouldn't stir up the emotional responses it was meant to Edited May 14, 2014 by OddballEasyEight Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Dance, that's what. Don't you mean Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Don't you mean Good lord no, that's gonna give me nightmares, if I actually slept. Although trooper on stage left was kinda cute, and that is obviously cannon. Cause everyone knows troopers love to dance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 There sure is a lot of people getting their panties in a bunch about a silly old canon. Most pirates use RPG's these days anyway. Role Playing Games? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OddballEasyEight Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Until and unless Starwars.com comes out and labels the Old Republic era as non-canon, I consider it canon. And that's all that needs saying on the matter. Not to be picky, but right now it seems it's the other way around. Until starwars.com comes out and labels ANYTHING as canon, it is part of the Legends (and thus not "canon). The only things that ARE confirmed to be canon are the movies (not sure if those god-awful Ewok movies count), TCW and SW:Rebels plus the books they are releasing soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenPalm Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) [deleted] Edited May 14, 2014 by HiddenPalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Let's all look at this with common sense. SWTOR has nothing to fear to be written off and neglected. Why? The only reason they are making these changes and have made these changes to things is because of the direction of the new movies. Please just see that guys. So everything wouldn't be sloppy and confusing. Right there is the reason they made the changes. It is all for the new movies. So let's just end this now. Edited May 14, 2014 by Sarfux Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZahirS Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Its very likely SWTOR will be elevated to canon because the game is a precedent to the Empire we see in the movies or atleast elements of SWTOR. EU is wiped, but SWTOR will stay as canon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantazm Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The things some people seem to get annoyed about....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenPalm Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Let's all look at this with common sense. SWTOR has nothing to fear to be written off and neglected. Why? The only reason they are making these changes and have made these changes to things is because of the direction of the new movies. Please just see that guys. So everything wouldn't be sloppy and confusing. Right there is the reason they made the changes. It is all for the new movies. So let's just end this now. And now apparently a Wiki run by fans (as in not official by any means, they could call the movies non canon if they want) claim that SWTOR isn't cannon. The new owners of the IP are taking control of it and preparing it for the new direction they intend. In other news, the sky is blue. Details at 11. I think some folks missed the point of this post. This isn't a discussion on what is or not canon. This is a discussion on Wookieepedia's new policy and a deeper look at what Wookieepedia really is. Wookieepedia claims to be a site made by the fans. Yet is not voicing the opinion of the fans but merely repeating what a corporate Disney subsidiary is saying. Someone pointed out that this is a smart business move. But this is a fan site, not a business ... OR IS IT? Also the point of Bioware's business interests being at risk as well. I was alluding that perhaps Bioware should hold a meeting (it probably did already) with its lawyers, marketing team, Bioware's executive board and EA representatives to see if this will effect the lure and market for players to play and invest money in Star Wars: The Old Republic, as Bioware appears to have less pull that the fan website, Wookieepedia, on their EU contribution being canon or not. Not even Disney is saying SWTOR isn't canon officially, though a Disney subsidiary publishing company said at most that SWTOR is "hazy". But Disney's official position is beyond the scope of this thread. Bioware may consider suing Wookieepedia being that it is not even an official Star Wars website, where as SWTOR.com is. But I am asking the question, is it now an official Star Wars website or are they still a site made by fans and controlled by fans? Do writers for the new Star Wars canon still look to the Holocron (now something else), or are they now using Wookieepedia? Is Wookieepedia now under the payroll or are they still representing the perspective of the fans? Are they being honest with the fans? Wookieepedia taking this stance that is not the stance of the fans, makes it lose its legitimacy as a fan site - in my opinion. <-------- That is the point of this thread, and I am curious as to how the fans feel about Wookiepedia's stance. Not if we agree with what is happening to the canon, but with how the fans are being represented. Do you feel like Wookiepedia is representing you the fan? Because it poses itself as it does. Firstly, this is not a reboot, people need to understand that. This is the definition of a reboot: In serial fiction, to reboot means to discard all continuity in an established series in order to recreate its characters, timeline and backstory from the beginning. --Wikipedia While the universe that readers knew is changing, it is not being discarded. Creators of new Star Wars entertainment have full access to the rich content of the Expanded Universe. --StarWars.com Disney/Lucasfilm are deciding not to beholden to EU continuity, but they are not starting from scratch, they are going to draw on the EU as a resource just like TCW did when embellishing on the Clone Wars era. And would we call that a reboot? No, it uses existing characters as they have been portrayed in the EU, worlds as they have been potrayed in the EU etc. etc. it is in line with EU continuity, not completely and it is not bound to it, but they hardly discarded it and trail-blazed a new canon. And I expect Rebels and the new novels will follow the same pattern. An example of an actual reboot would be something like Planet of the Apes, the story is completely different, the characters are completely different, the only similarities are the core concepts, humans, apes etc. As for the rest, you've completely misunderstood Wookieepedia's stance on this, I suggest you read again. Nobody is discarding or discrediting anything, they are just acknowledging that the EU is not part of official canon. Calm down. Again, this isn't a discussion on what is or not canon. This is a discussion on the policy of a website claiming to be a site made by the fans and not a part of Disney's subsidiaries. Here is there stance, if you missed it, directly from their policy on what they deem canon, with SWTOR being "C-canon" which is under "T-canon" - a system not being followed anymore since the corporate acquisition by the way. "All content that was previously considered to be below T-canon is now officially non-canon, unless it is referenced in a new canon work." - http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/WP:CANON They appear to be simply regurgitating the views of corporates under their own context and not the fans, especially the SWTOR community. Which means, we don't really have a fan site anymore. SWTOR gamers laugh at this, calling them nerds which shows the true perspective of the fans and our community. I am pointing out how we now don't have a site we can trust as representing the fan perspective and how Wookieepedia has lost legitimacy in our eyes. My Starwars story is whatver I choose to believe in So a site made by some nerds, and handled by some nerds, which can be edited... by nerds, is claiming SWTOR is bad? Ok boys, shut down the servers, close up the HQ, and sell everything at some Auction in Palo Alto. Some nerds in the Wookie-Wiki think the game is horrible. [/sarcasm] I don't really care about the things they handle as canon. In the SW universe that's canon to me, TOR is still canon while (the animated TV-Series) TCW never existed. So this doesn't bother me at all Until and unless Starwars.com comes out and labels the Old Republic era as non-canon, I consider it canon. And that's all that needs saying on the matter. Uh oh, the fans have "discredited" SWTOR, what are we going to do?! Dance, that's what. Don't you mean It's an outrage. An outrage I tell you. I'm so mad right now, I even shook my fist at the monitor. So mad. Edited May 14, 2014 by HiddenPalm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Andryah Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) I think some folks missed the point of this post. This isn't a discussion on what is or not canon. This is a discussion on Wookieepedia's new policy and a deeper look at what Wookieepedia really is. The point is pointless.. that is the point. Some alleged fansite (which is really nothing more then an open wiki) that can be modified, distorted and destroyed by fans if that's what they want to do.... IS NOT in any way relevant to my enjoyment of actually playing the game. I don't give a crap what some fan sites policy on IP is... it's not relevant to the actual IP itself. Lore dictators need to let it go IMO. Wookieepedia claims to be a site made by the fans. Yet is not voicing the opinion of the fans but merely repeating what a corporate Disney subsidiary is saying. Someone pointed out that this is a smart business move. But this is a fan site, not a business. 1) The IP is owned by Disney. Disney can do anything with it that they want to do. They can even legally file to injunct and prohibit a fan site from even using said IP at any time. And you can't do squat about it. The sooner people get with reality here.. the better your QoL in real life will be as far as SWTOR goes. 2) Fans are not legally entitled to dictate policy as to what is or is not canon in anyones IP. 3) The absurdity here is fans of the SW IP thinking they have any actual say in what is or is-not canon... OR that it even matters. Edited May 14, 2014 by Andryah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 3) The absurdity here is fans of the SW IP thinking they have any actual say in what is or is-not canon... OR that it even matters.this it's all fiction. it's all made up. getting worked up over "how fictiony is my fiction" is beyond ridiculous. it's all fiction. none of it is real. enjoy the universe for what it is and if you want to include/exclude certain portions go right ahead. none of this matters. it's all fantasy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarfux Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 The point is pointless.. that is the point. Some alleged fansite (which is really nothing more then an open wiki) that can be modified, distorted and destroyed by fans if that's what they want to do.... IS NOT in any way relevant to my enjoyment of actually playing the game. I don't give a crap what some fan sites policy on IP is... it's not relevant to the actual IP itself. Lore dictators need to let it go IMO. 1) The IP is owned by Disney. Disney can do anything with it that they want to do. They can even legally file to injunct and prohibit a fan site from even using said IP at any time. And you can't do squat about it. The sooner people get with reality here.. the better your QoL in real life will be as far as SWTOR goes. 2) Fans are not legally entitled to dictate policy as to what is or is not canon in anyones IP. 3) The absurdity here is fans of the SW IP thinking they have any actual say in what is or is-not canon... OR that it even matters. Bingo Andryah. Good points. I just think it's delusional that these people who are in control of wookiepedia think they have a say on what goes on in Star Wars. People need to step back, chill and see it's owned by Disney. They can do with Star Wars what they please. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Aside from the fact that you are still failing to understand Wookieepedia's stance on the matter, what even is your point here? Why should anyone care? Wookieepedia will remain a go-to source on information on the Star Wars universe. The fact that an information site is acknowledging the facts of continuity does not change that. Edited May 14, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Much ado about nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ikinai Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Aside from the fact that you are still failing to understand Wookieepedia's stance on the matter, what even is your point here? Why should anyone care? Wookieepedia will remain a go-to source on information on the Star Wars universe. The fact that an information site is acknowledging the facts of continuity does not change that. Continuity is bad, we prefer disjointed information that lacks logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fantazm Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 some stuff people occasionally give you a hard time around here but you're bang on there as far as I'm concerned. Wookieepedia remains what it always was; a useful open wiki with loads of stuff about SW on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HiddenPalm Posted May 14, 2014 Author Share Posted May 14, 2014 The point is pointless.. that is the point. Some alleged fansite (which is really nothing more then an open wiki) that can be modified, distorted and destroyed by fans if that's what they want to do.... IS NOT in any way relevant to my enjoyment of actually playing the game. I don't give a crap what some fan sites policy on IP is... it's not relevant to the actual IP itself. Lore dictators need to let it go IMO. 1) The IP is owned by Disney. Disney can do anything with it that they want to do. They can even legally file to injunct and prohibit a fan site from even using said IP at any time. And you can't do squat about it. The sooner people get with reality here.. the better your QoL in real life will be as far as SWTOR goes. 2) Fans are not legally entitled to dictate policy as to what is or is not canon in anyones IP. 3) The absurdity here is fans of the SW IP thinking they have any actual say in what is or is-not canon... OR that it even matters. Need more clarity with your points. Are you saying Wookieepedia is owned by Disney? Wikipedia claims to be the owner of that website, and Wookieepedia claims to be fan controlled. Are you saying Wookieepedia can't legally dictate canon? And are you saying Wookieepedia doesn't have say or that it matters? And are you calling Wookieepedia a lore tyrant that needs to let it go? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) Need more clarity with your points. Are you saying Wookieepedia is owned by Disney? Wikipedia claims to be the owner of that website, and Wookieepedia claims to be fan controlled. Are you saying Wookieepedia can't legally dictate canon? And are you saying Wookieepedia doesn't have say or that it matters? And are you calling Wookieepedia a lore tyrant that needs to let it go?Nobody here is even going to consider entering your bat crazy world of tin foil pal. But you might find this helpful. Edited May 14, 2014 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthDymond Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Wookieepedia taking this stance that is not the stance of the fans, makes it lose its legitimacy as a fan site - in my opinion. <-------- That is the point of this thread, and I am curious as to how the fans feel about Wookiepedia's stance. Not if we agree with what is happening to the canon, but with how the fans are being represented. Do you feel like Wookiepedia is representing you the fan? Because it poses itself as it does. They appear to be simply regurgitating the views of corporates under their own context and not the fans, especially the SWTOR community. Which means, we don't really have a fan site anymore. SWTOR gamers laugh at this, calling them nerds which shows the true perspective of the fans and our community. I am pointing out how we now don't have a site we can trust as representing the fan perspective and how Wookieepedia has lost legitimacy in our eyes. "The Fans" do not have a unified consensus, some individual fans are happy the EU is being made non-canon, others are upset, and others are indifferent. Claiming that the collective have a single view is nothing more than rhetoric to try to inflate your own view. And even if the fans did, overall, dislike the Legends/Canon split... that split still happened. Wookieepedia would be remiss if they didn't acknowledge that it happened and reflect it in their articles, the same way they would have been remiss in not including articles on characters from the Holiday Special just because no one likes that. Some fans were outraged when Chewie died in Vector Prime, doesn't mean that Wookieepedia should have just ignored that it happened. A wiki, including a fan-site wiki, is supposed to be a repository of information/facts (in this case "facts" about a fictional universe, but even so) - leaving out a bit of relevant information just because they don't like it doesn't make it a better fan site, it makes it a worse wiki. Omitting information would be going against everything that site is supposed to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irongut Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) I fail to understand why so many "the sky is falling" threads are being posted about this. Lucas never counted anything except the 6 films (and maybe Clone Wars) as canon. He could, and did, change things at whim. Even things that had already been in his films for 20 years and so were definitely canon. Disney is a new owner and have no history of looking after the continuity of a property like Star Wars. They hired J.J. "Lens Flare" Abrams. He's the king of crappy reboots with no plot, terrible acting, lots of explosions and over use of lens flare. Have you seen the abomination that is his Star Trek? Of course they are going to make a reboot. We'll be lucky if they don't **** all over the existing films let alone obscure books and computer games that no Disney executive has ever heard of. At the end of the day nothing has really changed. You can continue to play Star Wars computer games and read the books safe in the knowledge that you never mattered a jot to Lucas and you still don't to Disney. Edited May 14, 2014 by Irongut Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LegoUniverseBC Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Who cares? I consider The Old Republic canon and that's all that matters. Since it doesn't interfere with the movies and is still running. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthTHC Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 (edited) I find entertainment in fans arguing about what's canon, what's not canon, what fan sites are doing, etc. I find less entertainment in that then I find in enjoying the stories... but it's still entertainment. Why do you all allow yourselves to get wrapped around the axle like that? The only people who ever need to care what is canon or isn't canon are the professional writers hired to produce more Star Wars story, and they are going to have the support of Disney to help them understand what is and is not canon. Edited May 14, 2014 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pagy Posted May 14, 2014 Share Posted May 14, 2014 Need more clarity with your points. Are you saying Wookieepedia is owned by Disney? Wikipedia claims to be the owner of that website, and Wookieepedia claims to be fan controlled. Are you saying Wookieepedia can't legally dictate canon? And are you saying Wookieepedia doesn't have say or that it matters? And are you calling Wookieepedia a lore tyrant that needs to let it go?wookiepedia is a fan-moderated resource. if they wish to align with the actual owners of the content (Disney) then that is their right. they control the mission statement of the site, and if fans wish to contribute relevant content associated with that mission, then they are free to do so. Try to add star wars articles to asoiaf wiki and see what happens... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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