What am I doing wrong (Gunnery rotation)?

[Kacynski]

Hu there,

 

I am trying to get into a good gunnery rotation and pushing higher damage numbers. But I think I am doing something wrong ....

First, the spec I am running is 6/36/4 with one point in First Responder and one point in weapon calibrations. I tried a few variations of this spec with mainly shifting the points around between First Responder and Weapon Calibrations, but that doesn't seem to change anything substantial.

 

First problem I perceive is, I'm not doing enough damage. I am lagging about 300-400 dps behind my Guardian who has the same gear level and that doesn't seem right.

Second problem is my dps decreases steadily the longer the fight goes. I can start with a burst in the mid 3.500s and will stay around 3.000 for a minute but if I do a 5 minute parse I'm happy if I reach 2.800. This seems to tie into the

Third problem, I'm running out of ammo. I can do my rotation just fine for about a minute and then my ammo pool will start to twindle. Around the two minute mark I'm using the ammo reload, but strangle this only helps for a short time. I cannot keep my ammo pool until the reload is off cooldown again and then the parse goes down the drain dps-wise ....

 

Rotation wise I try to use every Full Auto as soon as it proccs. I will use Demolition Round as soon as it is off CD. I use HiB with 5 stacks only.

Usually I will start with: Relic->FA->Grav->Fa->Electro->Demo->Grav->FA

From there it is mostly: Grav-Grav-FA-Demo-Grav-Grav-FA-HiB and so on

I do not use the Tech Override-Plasma Grenade in my rotation, doesn't seem worth the hassle to me on single target ..

If I look at my parses, I can see a rather high percentage of FA (40+%, with Grav at 28+%). From other parses I see a bit lower percentage of FA (mid 30's maybe), but I don't know what I could change?

 

So, what am I doing wrong? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

[Bejarid]

So, what am I doing wrong? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

 

Biggest problem is, clearly, your ammo (mis)management - I'd guess not using Hammer Shot enough, essentially. Recently tweaked my own sequence to make ammo a little less tight, and am repeating: FA > DR > HS > GR > FA > HiB > GR > GR. I, of course, use a GR as part of my opener to ensure that every FA is used with the CoF proc and so that DR gets its boost, too. This sequence is not entirely ammo neutral, so you may have to sneak in a few more uses of HS (double tap it after DR), but when RC is at 20~40s left on its CD, you can drop the HS for an extra GR and get low just as RC comes up again.

 

Now, this works with my spec which is 2/2 Weapon Calibrations for the flat amount of alacrity. I, personally, have found proc alacrity to be far more disruptive to my rotation than the flat, and I'd guess that may be part of your problem - the simple three global sequence between FAs doesn't work when your global is too short, meaning you occasionally need an extra global to proc CoF, which digs further into your ammo than is probably comfortable.

 

Other than those things at which I'm guessing based on the information provided, I think your numbers are probably on target. FA tends to account for roughly 40% of my damage done, with GR right behind it at about 28%. Other Gunnys in my guild have about the same top-end split, skewed by crits.

[Gyronamics]

Gunnery is poor for sustained damage fights with no pauses.

 

Ideally you want to be in Assault for fights where you stick on something for minutes at a time.

 

Gunnery opens with high damage but runs into issues of simply outgoing ammo > regen once the big hitters are all done which then requires a good sprinkling of hammer shots to balance things.

[Khevar]

So, what am I doing wrong? Any tips would be greatly appreciated.

If you're comfortable with analyzing someone else's parses, he's a link to Odawwg's Arsenal parse.

http://www.torparse.com/a/656312

 

The last one is the lucky one (3719), most are between 3500-3600.

 

Here's the log details for the 7th fight:

http://www.torparse.com/a/656312/7/0/Log

 

I've got a little program that translates the Mercenary terminology to Commando. Here is a list of all abilities used (counting from the start of the fight):

 

 

001 00:00.040 Grav Round

002 00:01.207 Nano-Infused Attack Adrenal

003 00:01.490 High Impact Bolt

004 00:02.993 Demolition Round

005 00:04.493 Electro Net

006 00:05.993 Full Auto

007 00:08.920 Grav Round

008 00:10.310 Full Auto

009 00:13.103 Reserve Powercell

010 00:13.187 Plasma Grenade

011 00:14.710 Grav Round

012 00:16.507 High Impact Bolt

013 00:18.007 Grav Round

014 00:19.517 Demolition Round

015 00:21.033 Full Auto

016 00:23.833 Mortar Volley

017 00:26.820 Grav Round

018 00:28.337 Hammer Shot

019 00:29.843 Full Auto

020 00:32.727 High Impact Bolt

021 00:34.523 Demolition Round

022 00:35.920 Grav Round

023 00:37.333 Hammer Shot

024 00:38.827 Full Auto

025 00:41.937 Grav Round

026 00:43.467 Hammer Shot

027 00:44.870 Grav Round

028 00:46.717 Grav Round

029 00:48.213 High Impact Bolt

030 00:49.707 Demolition Round

031 00:51.210 Full Auto

032 00:53.927 Grav Round

033 00:55.437 Grav Round

034 00:56.937 Full Auto

035 00:59.727 Grav Round

036 01:01.330 Grav Round

037 01:02.830 Grav Round

038 01:04.333 High Impact Bolt

039 01:05.823 Demolition Round

040 01:07.343 Full Auto

041 01:10.163 Recharge Cells

042 01:10.320 Grav Round

043 01:11.833 Grav Round

044 01:13.377 Full Auto

045 01:15.943 Grav Round

046 01:17.347 Hammer Shot

047 01:19.340 High Impact Bolt

048 01:20.737 Grav Round

049 01:22.250 Demolition Round

050 01:23.770 Hammer Shot

051 01:25.243 Full Auto

052 01:28.043 Grav Round

053 01:29.563 Grav Round

054 01:31.067 Hammer Shot

055 01:32.560 Full Auto

056 01:35.457 High Impact Bolt

057 01:37.357 Demolition Round

058 01:38.753 Grav Round

059 01:40.270 Electro Net

060 01:41.760 Full Auto

061 01:44.573 Grav Round

062 01:46.063 Grav Round

063 01:47.563 Grav Round

064 01:49.083 Hammer Shot

065 01:50.573 High Impact Bolt

066 01:52.373 Demolition Round

067 01:53.807 Hammer Shot

068 01:55.260 Full Auto

069 01:58.010 Tech Override

070 01:58.213 Grav Round

071 01:59.610 Full Auto

072 02:02.417 Grav Round

073 02:03.923 Hammer Shot

074 02:05.407 Grav Round

075 02:06.917 High Impact Bolt

076 02:08.407 Demolition Round

077 02:09.907 Full Auto

078 02:12.803 Hammer Shot

079 02:14.320 Grav Round

080 02:15.833 Reserve Powercell

081 02:15.920 Plasma Grenade

082 02:17.430 Full Auto

083 02:20.030 Mortar Volley

084 02:22.940 Grav Round

085 02:24.500 High Impact Bolt

086 02:25.957 Demolition Round

087 02:27.340 Full Auto

088 02:30.190 Grav Round

089 02:31.613 Grav Round

090 02:33.187 Hammer Shot

091 02:34.660 Full Auto

092 02:37.550 Hammer Shot

093 02:39.457 High Impact Bolt

094 02:40.853 Grav Round

095 02:42.367 Demolition Round

096 02:43.860 Full Auto

097 02:46.770 Hammer Shot

098 02:48.520 Grav Round

099 02:50.547 Grav Round

100 02:52.087 Full Auto

101 02:54.957 High Impact Bolt

102 02:56.417 Grav Round

103 02:57.843 Demolition Round

104 02:59.337 Grav Round

105 03:00.863 Full Auto

106 03:03.707 Grav Round

107 03:05.210 Grav Round

108 03:06.777 Grav Round

109 03:08.277 Grav Round

110 03:10.087 High Impact Bolt

111 03:10.307 Nano-Infused Attack Adrenal

112 03:11.590 Electro Net

113 03:13.087 Demolition Round

114 03:13.307 Recharge Cells

115 03:14.613 Full Auto

116 03:17.187 Grav Round

117 03:18.603 Full Auto

118 03:21.387 Mortar Volley

119 03:24.317 Hammer Shot

120 03:25.833 Grav Round

121 03:27.263 High Impact Bolt

122 03:28.737 Demolition Round

123 03:30.237 Hammer Shot

124 03:31.740 Full Auto

125 03:34.650 Grav Round

126 03:36.190 Full Auto

127 03:38.960 Hammer Shot

128 03:40.450 Grav Round

129 03:42.337 High Impact Bolt

130 03:43.730 Grav Round

131 03:45.147 Demolition Round

132 03:46.677 Hammer Shot

133 03:48.157 Full Auto

134 03:51.140 Grav Round

135 03:52.530 Grav Round

136 03:54.033 Hammer Shot

137 03:55.537 Grav Round

138 03:57.523 High Impact Bolt

139 03:58.947 Full Auto

140 04:01.737 Grav Round

141 04:03.250 Demolition Round

142 04:04.737 Hammer Shot

143 04:06.157 Full Auto

144 04:08.873 Grav Round

145 04:10.363 Grav Round

146 04:12.457 High Impact Bolt

147 04:13.857 Full Auto

148 04:16.660 Reserve Powercell

149 04:16.663 Plasma Grenade

150 04:18.253 Demolition Round

151 04:19.650 Grav Round

152 04:21.190 Full Auto

153 04:24.157 Mortar Volley

154 04:27.473 High Impact Bolt

155 04:28.970 Grav Round

156 04:30.507 Full Auto

157 04:33.277 Demolition Round

158 04:34.770 Grav Round

159 04:36.177 Hammer Shot

160 04:37.667 Grav Round

161 04:39.087 Full Auto

 

It may help you.

 

If the colors make your eyes bleed () then just copy and paste it into Notepad or something.

[Kacynski]

Thanks a lot guys, there is some good feedback here. I think mostly I have been neglecting Hammershot and that's why I'm running out of ammo. I should need to use it as a filler more. The combat log linked above shows HS at 3.6% that's way more than I expected.

I will also go back to 2 points in Weapon Calibrations, that's where I started before my testing anyway.

[Freyya_]

If you're comfortable with analyzing someone else's parses, he's a link to Odawwg's Arsenal parse.

http://www.torparse.com/a/656312

 

 

is he not hit capped?

also over 50% crit on tracer missile (im assuming thats grav round? with 4pce bonus) on some parses is huge

 

 

not to hijack the thread but im also having low dps issues, mostly 180 gear and i cant break 3k dps on boss fights, waiting to see peoples replies and hopefully fix my issue here than starting my own thread

[Bejarid]

not to hijack the thread but im also having low dps issues, mostly 180 gear and i cant break 3k dps on boss fights, waiting to see peoples replies and hopefully fix my issue here than starting my own thread

 

A log might help, but I feel comfortable saying that dummy DPS is no true indication of boss DPS. I, too, am mostly 180 gear and don't break 3k on boss fights, but am parsing 3.2k on dummy. Movement, cleanses, target swaps - all things that occur in a real encounter and not on a dummy that dig into the rotation and lower overall DPS. As long as your group isn't wiping to enrage timers, your DPS is probably fine.

[venomlash]

is he not hit capped?

 

This is a Mercenary parse, remember. Off-hand attacks have a 30% accuracy penalty as part of the balancing thingy. You'll notice that the only attacks that ever missed in that parse were Rapid Shots, Unload, and Rail Shot (mirrors of Hammer Shot, Full Auto, and HIB respectively), which have both a mainhand and an offhand hit. All the Tech attacks have full accuracy, you'll see.

[Freyya_]

This is a Mercenary parse, remember. Off-hand attacks have a 30% accuracy penalty as part of the balancing thingy. You'll notice that the only attacks that ever missed in that parse were Rapid Shots, Unload, and Rail Shot (mirrors of Hammer Shot, Full Auto, and HIB respectively), which have both a mainhand and an offhand hit. All the Tech attacks have full accuracy, you'll see.

That explains it thank you. I've only been playing for a few months so I guess I'm still new

[Freyya_]

A log might help, but I feel comfortable saying that dummy DPS is no true indication of boss DPS. I, too, am mostly 180 gear and don't break 3k on boss fights, but am parsing 3.2k on dummy. Movement, cleanses, target swaps - all things that occur in a real encounter and not on a dummy that dig into the rotation and lower overall DPS. As long as your group isn't wiping to enrage timers, your DPS is probably fine.

I've done a few parses on the boss dummy and my max is about 2600 for assault. Can't remember gunnery parses. I'll do a few tonight and reply. Is op ok with me posting here or should I start a new thread

[Khevar]

A log might help, but I feel comfortable saying that dummy DPS is no true indication of boss DPS. I, too, am mostly 180 gear and don't break 3k on boss fights, but am parsing 3.2k on dummy. Movement, cleanses, target swaps - all things that occur in a real encounter and not on a dummy that dig into the rotation and lower overall DPS. As long as your group isn't wiping to enrage timers, your DPS is probably fine.

I agree in general, but I believe you're overlooking the primary reason to do a parse is to practice, rather than to expect a translation of ops dummy numbers to real fight numbers.

 

The ability to hit high numbers on the ops dummy generally goes hand-in-hand with the fact that you know your rotation / priority list down cold. When you have the randomness of a real fight, your don't have to think about what to do next, your muscle memory has you covered.

 

It helps you raise your raid awareness when you don't have to think about your buffs, procs and such.

[Bejarid]

I agree in general, but I believe you're overlooking the primary reason to do a parse is to practice, rather than to expect a translation of ops dummy numbers to real fight numbers.

 

I agree with that sentiment, and I've always used dummies for rotational practice - even when I have everything down cold, as you put it; but too often when I've seen people that think they're struggling, they tend to be unfairly comparing their dummy runs with actual raid numbers. I was merely trying to point out that a dummy parse shouldn't be held as gospel as far as true potential, and that real-time raid DPS would vary significantly.

[Freyya_]

I agree in general, but I believe you're overlooking the primary reason to do a parse is to practice, rather than to expect a translation of ops dummy numbers to real fight numbers.

 

ive always understood this, learn it from wow that a dps test on a dummy can never be truly accurate, however, if someones dps is 4k on said dummy and mine is 3k (tried a few parses and dps went up from 2600, im very happy) in nearly all 180 gear, then theres something wrong... besides, is there a boss fight which you can test your dps? a pure tank and spank fight? no adds, no mechanics

[Bejarid]

besides, is there a boss fight which you can test your dps? a pure tank and spank fight? no adds, no mechanics

 

Not really, no. Grob'thok and Nefra (maybe Tyrans) would be the closest, I'd think, but you still have to run from fire and adds (and fire/floor tiles), respectively. At least in ops. And BioWare has done really good, I feel, about keeping flashpoint bosses mechanically involved, too.

 

Also, the 4k+ parsers are likely only linking their best, most RNG-favorable (read: high-crit) parses, and are in full, perfectly optimized 180s - probably some 186s, now, too - rather than "mostly" 180s.

[Freyya_]

 

Also, the 4k+ parsers are likely only linking their best, most RNG-favorable (read: high-crit) parses, and are in full, perfectly optimized 180s - probably some 186s, now, too - rather than "mostly" 180s.

I'm 2 pieces short of full 180. Which shouldn't justify a 1k ps loss. And I doubt some 186 gear because they're old parses. I'll start my own thread soon with a few parses and maybe you guys can analyse them. Thanks for everyone's help

Edited May 20, 2014 by Freyya_

[Gyronamics]

Gunnery is nowhere near 4k max

 

Mercenary Pyro has hiscores of 4k but not Commando Assault because of a bug which gave Mercs an extra 100dps

 

That is fixed next major patch.

 

Leaderboards are garbage if you want normal output. To get on the leaderboard you stack high power then do a few hundred parses til you get a really good run of crits. You also change your talent tree to remove pushback and gain more crit, something you don't do in a raid.

 

So fantasy numbers only on the leaderboard. If you want real numbers you look at raid dps leaderboards. Even then you want to watch that they have not been fluffing their damage with DoT and AOE on things they should not.

 

However you want to be able to hit about 3500 on a dummy using Gunnery in 180s with some practice.

 

Remember that the dummy is simply practice, raid damage will vary hugely depending on what you're allowed to hit and for how long. The hardest fight in the live game is 16m NiM Brontes and 2400 DPS at the end of that is considered good because its lots of target swapping and short bursts. Gunnery by the way is the spec you would take for that fight.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Gyronamics

[Freyya_]

Gunnery is nowhere near 4k max

 

Mercenary Pyro has hiscores of 4k but not Commando Assault because of a bug which gave Mercs an extra 100dps

 

That is fixed next major patch.

 

Leaderboards are garbage if you want normal output. To get on the leaderboard you stack high power then do a few hundred parses til you get a really good run of crits. You also change your talent tree to remove pushback and gain more crit, something you don't do in a raid.

 

So fantasy numbers only on the leaderboard. If you want real numbers you look at raid dps leaderboards. Even then you want to watch that they have not been fluffing their damage with DoT and AOE on things they should not.

 

However you want to be able to hit about 3500 on a dummy using Gunnery in 180s with some practice.

 

Remember that the dummy is simply practice, raid damage will vary hugely depending on what you're allowed to hit and for how long. The hardest fight in the live game is 16m NiM Brontes and 2400 DPS at the end of that is considered good because its lots of target swapping and short bursts. Gunnery by the way is the spec you would take for that fight.

Hey. Firstly I'm not trying to start an argument, just after a logical explanation. So sorry if I came off a bit strong.

I am off topic, which is why i wanted to create a new thread, but I wasn't talking about gunnery, nor was I talking about assault for that matter. I was talking about the 1k dps difference between myself and the highest known parse, asking if I was doing something wrong.

Again, 100 dps because of a bug I understand. Not 1k.

We are also talking about dummy parses not bosses, I understand the difference however again. 1k dps.

And finally if it's all got to do with rng, why is there such a high difference between best and worst. I'll respect to crit and do a few parses tonight. Thanks for your input

[TACeMossie]

Hey. Firstly I'm not trying to start an argument, just after a logical explanation. So sorry if I came off a bit strong.

I am off topic, which is why i wanted to create a new thread, but I wasn't talking about gunnery, nor was I talking about assault for that matter. I was talking about the 1k dps difference between myself and the highest known parse, asking if I was doing something wrong.

Again, 100 dps because of a bug I understand. Not 1k.

We are also talking about dummy parses not bosses, I understand the difference however again. 1k dps.

And finally if it's all got to do with rng, why is there such a high difference between best and worst. I'll respect to crit and do a few parses tonight. Thanks for your input

 

Another thing that can cause a dps loss is comm enhancements vs crafted enhancements - The comm enhancements are 23 less power each! There is also the set bonus, going without that is also a huge DPS loss (if going gunnery, you are better off going with the classic 4-piece bonus than using comm armorings without a set bonus its that good).

 

Without a list of what your gear looks like we cant really help you, so if you link an AMR with what you have alongside a parse well see what we can do

Edited May 20, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Khevar]

ive always understood this, learn it from wow that a dps test on a dummy can never be truly accurate, however, if someones dps is 4k on said dummy and mine is 3k (tried a few parses and dps went up from 2600, im very happy) in nearly all 180 gear, then theres something wrong.

Do you have a parse you could post? It's possible any issues you may be having could have a simple solution.

[Gyronamics]

From the top,

 

Dummy should have armour debuff on it using the dummy armour debuff item

Look to proc HiB every 6s, there are many threads on the mechanics

Use Recharge Cells and Reserve Powercell as often as possible

Don't drop into low regen

 

I logged in and did one parse while typing this and this is it: http://www.torparse.com/a/677810

 

Sure I can roll the dice again and eventually one of those parses will be a 3900 parse and I could post that and say it was nothing to make you feel worse but I have nothing to prove by misrepresenting my parses, I've cleared it all

 

Parse is 4 mins 47s long or 287 seconds. Divide that by 6 and you get 47.8 and my HiB use for that fight was 47.

 

If you can stick on the 6s HiB proc like a machine and control your energy you'll parse as good as anyone.

Edited May 20, 2014 by Gyronamics

[Freyya_]

 

Dummy should have armour debuff on it using the dummy armour debuff item

Look to proc HiB every 6s,

I'm unsure of what this item is.

I've also found the proc chance isn't 100% which makes it a little difficult with 250 ping

 

Thanks

Edited May 21, 2014 by Freyya_

[Khevar]

I'm unsure of what this item is.

I've also found the proc chance isn't 100% which makes it a little difficult with 250 ping

 

Thanks

Since Assault Specialist doesn't have an armor debuff, you can buy an item that applies it to the ops dummy. You can also buy an item that gives the ops dummy 500k, 1000k and 1500k health (so that it can go below 30% hp and get affected by Burnout).

 

They are purchased from a legacy-unlockable droid. I'm not in game right now so I can't look up what it's called, but it is in one of the Legacy-wide unlocks next to the "Ship GTN Terminal" unlock. Once you unlock this droid, he appears in your ship near your cargo hold, then you can buy these items.

 

You equip the item, target the dummy, and activate it.

 

As far as the proc chance goes, if you chain two Charged Bolts in a row, or a Full Auto then Charged Bolts you are practically guaranteed an Ionic Accelerator proc. It ends up looking like this:

 

CB - CB - HiB - <something>

FA - CB - HiB - <something>

CB - CB - HiB - <something>

CB - CB - HiB - <something>

 

The <something> will be Incendiary Round when the DoT runs out (don't clip it), Assault Plastique on CD, Electro Net on CD, Reserve Powercell / Plasma Grenade, or another Charged Bolts.

 

You should be able to hit HiB every 6.3 seconds or less. It is the primary way to keep your ammo high and hardly ever have to use Hammer Shots -- in some cases you may not need it at all.

Edited May 21, 2014 by Khevar

[Freyya_]

Since Assault Specialist doesn't have an armor debuff, you can buy an item that applies it to the ops dummy. You can also buy an item that gives the ops dummy 500k, 1000k and 1500k health (so that it can go below 30% hp and get affected by Burnout).

 

They are purchased from a legacy-unlockable droid. I'm not in game right now so I can't look up what it's called, but it is in one of the Legacy-wide unlocks next to the "Ship GTN Terminal" unlock. Once you unlock this droid, he appears in your ship near your cargo hold, then you can buy these items.

 

You equip the item, target the dummy, and activate it.

 

As far as the proc chance goes, if you chain two Charged Bolts in a row, or a Full Auto then Charged Bolts you are practically guaranteed an Ionic Accelerator proc. It ends up looking like this:

 

CB - CB - HiB - <something>

FA - CB - HiB - <something>

CB - CB - HiB - <something>

CB - CB - HiB - <something>

 

The <something> will be Incendiary Round when the DoT runs out (don't clip it), Assault Plastique on CD, Electro Net on CD, Reserve Powercell / Plasma Grenade, or another Charged Bolts.

 

You should be able to hit HiB every 6.3 seconds or less. It is the primary way to keep your ammo high and hardly ever have to use Hammer Shots -- in some cases you may not need it at all.

hey thanks for your help, no one told me this is how to correctly do parses, burnout, -20% armour and the 100k hp pool really improves your dps.

 

ive also gotten much better at my rotation, trying to time hib more.

 

heres some of my best parses, i didnt know how to upload more than one so i had to copy and paste into one notepad document, i havent adjusted or moved any numbers so its still legit.

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/680362

 

i hope this link works, im not the smartest man when it comes to forums and stuff

[Bejarid]

i hope this link works, im not the smartest man when it comes to forums and stuff

 

Link worked fine.

 

Your APM seems a touch low for Assault, compared to the log Gyronamics linked, so there is still some room to tighten your rotation. But you are consistently hitting ~3.2k, so you're still doing really well.