Getting way more damage in 2.7

[Macroeconomics]

This just goes to show that a Bolster system that tries to adjust for every gear type/level will always have exploit holes in it. By this time the Bolster code is probably a spaghetti-zed lump that even the designer can not fully comprehend. They should toss it and make avaiable pvp gear equal to pve gear. Or convert all pve gear to be equal to Obroan -3 expertise while in a wz. Simple wins. Simple can not be exploited.

 

Or they could continue with the Bolster spaghetti code. Yeah, that's the ticket....

[Toughenough]

make available pvp gear equal to pve gear. Or convert all pve gear to be equal to Obroan -3 expertise while in a wz. Simple wins. Simple can not be exploited.

 

Or they could continue with the Bolster spaghetti code. Yeah, that's the ticket....

 

Sorry can't agree with that. If you are going to make 2 different types of gear (which they have). If a pve'r wants to pvp with the PVE gear then they shouldn't get any buff at all. Like i said before, us PVP'rs can't go into an OPs group with RANKED pvp gear. If a pve;r wants to join us in WZs and compete then they should grind for the pvp gear like we did.

Edited April 14, 2014 by Toughenough

[Dingoo]

I'm assuming this is talk mostly around 55 pvp.

There is a solution to it but Bioware don't want to do it. Plenty people has said before that in 55 pvp bolster should just be removed, period. but Bioware says that's not fair vs the pve people who wishes to try pvp.. really?

Most of you probably remember the old recruit sets? as crappy as they were the concept could be better.

Remove bolster, make a sub entry level set you can either purchase or do a questline for to get (maybe a objective intro to wz's?). this would solve the issue of bolster in the high tier of pvp. Bioware just won't do it.

[Toughenough]

I like how bioware uses the word "fair". If fair is what they want then get rid of the 2 sets of gear and make only one. To get the gear you can either PVP or PVE, but the gear is exactly the same. Done end of story.

 

Puts an end to the bolster, any exploits because of the bolster and NO ONE has better gear then the next guy.

[L-RANDLE]

It's not about being "fair". As much as they try to avoid the situation, PvP gear breaks PvE gear progression. Brute gear is better for PvE than it is for PvP, its about even with elite gear. That gear is good enough to do most OPS on HM.

 

I make no bones about how BW caters to casuals too much, but in this case, PvP gear almost breaks the entire game. It will never work unless they drop all PvE stats from it and remove the artifical bolster cap on EXP.

[TUXs]

It's not about being "fair". As much as they try to avoid the situation, PvP gear breaks PvE gear progression. Brute gear is better for PvE than it is for PvP, its about even with elite gear. That gear is good enough to do most OPS on HM.

 

I make no bones about how BW caters to casuals too much, but in this case, PvP gear almost breaks the entire game. It will never work unless they drop all PvE stats from it and remove the artifical bolster cap on EXP.

 

How would you propose that? If' I'm doing daily missions on Oricon, I wear my PvP set because THAT is the real threat to me, not NPCs that drop aggro after I run a little ways. PvP gear MUST be usable in PvE too, otherwise an NPC could 1-shot you.

 

IMO, they need to remove Expertise entirely from the game and just keep PvE and PvP sets roughly equal. I realize it may encourage some folk to exploit WZ's for semi-decent PvE gear, but it also promotes people doing their daily missions for PvP...something lacking these days.

[L-RANDLE]

How would you propose that? If' I'm doing daily missions on Oricon, I wear my PvP set because THAT is the real threat to me, not NPCs that drop aggro after I run a little ways. PvP gear MUST be usable in PvE too, otherwise an NPC could 1-shot you.

 

IMO, they need to remove Expertise entirely from the game and just keep PvE and PvP sets roughly equal. I realize it may encourage some folk to exploit WZ's for semi-decent PvE gear, but it also promotes people doing their daily missions for PvP...something lacking these days.

 

I proposed that EXP has its own equipment slot like dye mods, only attainable with PvP comms. Over 14 slots add an arbitrary amount of EXP which has nothing to do with bolster mechanics. PvP rewards would need to consist of PvE mods maybe one or two tier below top tier raid gear, in addition to the new EXP modules.

 

 

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=719106

[kennethbell]

My solution:

 

 

Remove bolster in all forms of ranked and non-ranked 55 bracket Warzones ONLY.

 

Have a Tier 0.5 set including weapons (everything) be given by doing an instanced quest line (PVE)

0.5 set, recruit gear, whatever u want to call it, would be at 75% total stats as T1 at lvl 55 but still max out expertise. This recruit gear should be adaptive to level, so that someone who wanted to level purely doing Warzones could as well much easier.

 

Then have all T1 gear except weapons be obtainable by doing the top end PVE. This rate would need to be balanced to be slower then doing WZs to get the gear.

Edited April 14, 2014 by kennethbell

[L-RANDLE]

My solution:

 

 

Remove bolster in all forms of ranked and non-ranked 55 bracket Warzones ONLY.

 

Have a Tier 0.5 set including weapons (everything) be given by doing an instanced quest line (PVE)

0.5 set, recruit gear, whatever u want to call it, would be at 75% total stats as T1 at lvl 55 but still max out expertise. This recruit gear should be adaptive to level, so that someone who wanted to level purely doing Warzones could as well much easier.

 

Then have all T1 gear except weapons be obtainable by doing the top end PVE. This rate would need to be balanced to be slower then doing WZs to get the gear.

How do you fix the issue about people not wearing it? I know a EXP restriction could work, but at the core, you still have an issue of PvP gear having viable PvE stats. This already happened. PvP stat progression could not and should not have PvE stat progression imo.

Edited April 14, 2014 by L-RANDLE

[kennethbell]

How do you fix the issue about people not wearing it? I know a EXP restriction could work, but at the core, you still have an issue of PvP gear having viable PvE stats. This already happened. PvP stat progression could not and should not have PvE stat progression imo.

 

 

2 solutions to that, I'd say pick 1 :

 

Well then use my method above (except bolster removal) however remove all stats from ALL PVP gear except expertise. Have each gear set just have a clear modifier set as either Tank, DPS, or heals and then another modifier based on tier. Then rework the bolster system to merely calculate a set stats based on level of player, tier of gear and set type (DPS, Heals, or tank)..

 

EX: 20 different assassins entering Warzone with full Tier 1 DPS set, all 20 would have the same exact stats.

 

Also with my 0.5 tier set being obtainable and wearable even on a new character, this makes more sense to have a bracketless system which in turn would mean faster ques. If brackets were completely removed, so we could have a lot more WZ popping, I would say have the modifier in a warzone on the gear as far as level always be set to 55. This is something I would like to see added in the future to this solution, the only hard part is working in the abilities and talents not yet obtained. Could turn it into an almost Guild Wars PVP character system, except pple would still need to level to 55 to get that tier 1 and up gear for full potential.

 

 

Second solution:

Using my system above again, with the bolster removal, have a 2018 expertise requirement for queing for Warzones, and you cannot change or modify your gear once in que and while in a WZ. At the same side have any PVE raid/whatever have a max expertise with the same restriction on being able to change or modify gear

Edited April 14, 2014 by kennethbell

[TUXs]

How do you fix the issue about people not wearing it? I know a EXP restriction could work, but at the core, you still have an issue of PvP gear having viable PvE stats. This already happened. PvP stat progression could not and should not have PvE stat progression imo.

 

I still think making Expertise an innate stat is the best solution to this. Bring back a form of "Recruit" gear that gets you to 2018 Expertise, then, also make Expertise an innate stat for all players - a value of 1500 @ lvl 55.

 

This way, no matter what a player is doing, they won't be 1-shot by someone wearing PvP gear over someone not wearing it. Even those who refuse to wear PvP gear get a minimum of 1500 Expertise (open world or in WZs - bonus: add a players Valor level to that 1500 and you have a potential of 1600/2118). Once a players gear Expertise>1500, the higher value is taken.

[kennethbell]

I still think making Expertise an innate stat is the best solution to this. Bring back a form of "Recruit" gear that gets you to 2018 Expertise, then, also make Expertise an innate stat for all players - a value of 1500 @ lvl 55.

 

This way, no matter what a player is doing, they won't be 1-shot by someone wearing PvP gear over someone not wearing it. Even those who refuse to wear PvP gear get a minimum of 1500 Expertise (open world or in WZs - bonus: add a players Valor level to that 1500 and you have a potential of 1600/2118). Once a players gear Expertise>1500, the higher value is taken.

 

That doesnt stop PVP gear from being useful in PVE.

[Zoom_VI]

That doesnt stop PVP gear from being useful in PVE.

 

Yes well I don't want to have to grind a second set of gear just to do dailies.

[kennethbell]

Yes well I don't want to have to grind a second set of gear just to do dailies.

 

you wouldn't . See my posts on previous page

[TUXs]

That doesnt stop PVP gear from being useful in PVE.

 

It shouldn't be useless in PvE...it's harder to get full Oboron/Berserker gear than it is full 72's or 78's which can be bought.

[L-RANDLE]

It shouldn't be useless in PvE...it's harder to get full Oboron/Berserker gear than it is full 72's or 78's which can be bought.

 

Well each has certain requirements, but I think PvE gear is a much more difficult process with lockouts, grouping, and the fact you can't grind anything until you hit 55, but I guess, if you have the coin, meh....

[TUXs]

Well each has certain requirements, but I think PvE gear is a much more difficult process with lockouts, grouping, and the fact you can't grind anything until you hit 55, but I guess, if you have the coin, meh....

I have full sets of both - I stand by my belief that top PvP gear is exponentially more difficult to get. How many full pieces drop in WZ's? How many spare sets do you have from excess comms? When you get the newest TOP TIER PvP armor, do you put the old set on your companion? PvE is 100x's easier to gear for...freaking Oricon drops an entire set of 66's.

[Jadescythe]

I have full sets of both - I stand by my belief that top PvP gear is exponentially more difficult to get. How many full pieces drop in WZ's? How many spare sets do you have from excess comms? When you get the newest TOP TIER PvP armor, do you put the old set on your companion? PvE is 100x's easier to gear for...freaking Oricon drops an entire set of 66's.

 

Well, they don't drop many individual pieces. So you get to grind out 6 pairs of gloves to get the 6 enhancements that only that piece carries. So that's always fun.

 

And the top tier stuff is not craftable at all. You have to raid for it. You can gear up for the raid with credits, however.

[TACeMossie]

It's not about being "fair". As much as they try to avoid the situation, PvP gear breaks PvE gear progression. Brute gear is better for PvE than it is for PvP, its about even with elite gear. That gear is good enough to do most OPS on HM.

 

I make no bones about how BW caters to casuals too much, but in this case, PvP gear almost breaks the entire game. It will never work unless they drop all PvE stats from it and remove the artifical bolster cap on EXP.

 

Its arkanian level, which is basic comms and only just viable for HM SnV/TFB/TC

Though its 'easier' to min max, and the tank option for brutalizer gear has more potential mitigation

 

And the top tier stuff is not craftable at all. You have to raid for it. You can gear up for the raid with credits, however.

 

Well... 2.7 made the top tier stuff pretty much craftable. You miss out on Dread Masters gear, but thats to be expected cause thats nightmare level stuff. For now though, you can craft:

 

Top Tier Mainhand

Top TIer Relics

Top Tier Earpiece

Pretty Much Top Tier Implants

Pretty Much Top Tier Enhancements

Pretty Much Top Tier Mods/Armorings

 

In addition, the set bonus armorings for Arkanian are only slightly weaker than the set bonus pieces for Dread Forged (well, its 29.6% less mainstat, however that equates to 71.442 power times the mainstat modifier) because of how high the stats are going to be on everything else.

 

Hell until dread forged came out, it was better for a commando to use level 50 armorings (Dread Guard) than the 'BiS' Kel Dragon Eliminators armorings because of the set bonus, showing how little the effect of the mainstat in the armorings was.

Edited April 15, 2014 by TACeMossie

[Ghost_Spectre]

Randal struck on idea of making Expertise inherent to the player as a stat if I read what he said correctly. I think that is the answer if they must retain expertise in the game. However, I think the idea of having two sets of gear, one for PvE and one for PvP is ridiculous now. Before you go and dismiss what I say, hear me out.

 

If PvPer's want their own PvP gear, that's fine. Let them earn their gear with the exact same stats as PvE gear through the daily grind of PvP comms. PvP gear would have its own look separate from PvE gear as it should be. This way both sets of gear can be equal across the board. This will allow players to enter either PvE or PvP without any problems of gear imbalance.

 

Of course BW would have to put something in place that will have the same kind of grind for the highest tier of gear in PvP to match the PvE players’ progression so that PvP players do not outpace the PvE players in acquiring their gear.

 

Bolster could then be removed from the game and expertise is now dependent on the player's leveling as their normal stats to which they can reach a maximum level of 2018 or whatever they decide to set it at. Boost for expertise can come in the form of datacrons much like the normal stat datacrons we already have and coming from participating in PvP.

 

As it stands now, with the new PvP gear, I'm done. I'm not going back into the grind for PvP gear and PvE gear as I don't have the time or the patience to do it again. Stat equalization between PvE & PvP should be made so that a player can participate in PvP or PvE on an equal footing. Conversely, expertise as a characteristic stat will help and I believe improve overall game play in PvP and in Open World PvP on either a PvE or PvP server, much like I do when I'm in GW2's World vs World. My ascendant gear works in both worlds and having that in SWTOR may well end the argument of gear imbalance and improve competition. That's what I believe should happen with the complete removal of Bolster from level 55 PvP.

[Cretinus]

I still think making Expertise an innate stat is the best solution to this. Bring back a form of "Recruit" gear that gets you to 2018 Expertise, then, also make Expertise an innate stat for all players - a value of 1500 @ lvl 55.

 

This way, no matter what a player is doing, they won't be 1-shot by someone wearing PvP gear over someone not wearing it. Even those who refuse to wear PvP gear get a minimum of 1500 Expertise (open world or in WZs - bonus: add a players Valor level to that 1500 and you have a potential of 1600/2118). Once a players gear Expertise>1500, the higher value is taken.

 

One of the aims of bolster is to avoid that high end PvE gear > standard PvP gear (for playing PvP, of course). High end PvE gear with 1500 expertise would undermine this.

Edited April 15, 2014 by Cretinus

[Loki_]

If they were to remove bolster from 55 pvp then 78 and 81 MH / OH would always be better than pvp ones by a mile it would always be better to take 68 expertise loss per slot for the gain in force / tech power and primary damage.

 

Please stop with stupid ideas from armchair devs that do not understand what bolster actually does

[kennethbell]

If they were to remove bolster from 55 pvp then 78 and 81 MH / OH would always be better than pvp ones by a mile it would always be better to take 68 expertise loss per slot for the gain in force / tech power and primary damage.

 

Please stop with stupid ideas from armchair devs that do not understand what bolster actually does

 

not if they had a 2018 exp requirement for queing for wzs, and restricted you from changing or modifying gear while in que or a warzone itself

[MotorCityMan]

Healers are no fun again.

[Asheris]

Healers are no fun again.

 

And everyone wonders why is that nobody wants to play one