Commando/Mercenary Top 3 Answers

[Euthyphro]

But if Assault has higher single target sustained: Gunnery prefered for 5 bosses, Assault prefered for the other 5 bosses.

 

I just want to say that if they do intend us to be in a different spec to optimize toward each boss fight, then they need to implement a dual spec function that allows us to switch on the fly. Otherwise, you're asking dps classes to stop the action between almost every single boss encounter to re-do their talent trees, which is quite annoying (and I know, b/c I do this between gunnery and assault and even within gunnery when I need Decoy), and doubly annoying in timed runs.

 

Otherwise, I'm not sure it's desirable class design to consider that an OK state of affairs.

[ArchangelLBC]

yes? and i never asked for that... like i said i guess you should go read also.. thanks for butting in though

 

No one said you asked for it. Cs was originally responding to the devs where the DEVS said they had bringing the two specs to equal DPS was on their to do list, noting that no in fact they shouldn't do the same DPS because sustained specs should be ahead of burst specs. Then someone quoted cs saying in their opinion the DPS specs should be equal so it's just purely a matter of preference, which is when cs said what you originally quoted saying no one had asked for what cs was talking about even though the devs had specifically said making the specs equal in DPS was on their to do list.

 

So again, maybe you should learn to take your own advice and read before you go quoting people.

 

I just want to say that if they do intend us to be in a different spec to optimize toward each boss fight, then they need to implement a dual spec function that allows us to switch on the fly. Otherwise, you're asking dps classes to stop the action between almost every single boss encounter to re-do their talent trees, which is quite annoying (and I know, b/c I do this between gunnery and assault and even within gunnery when I need Decoy), and doubly annoying in timed runs.

 

Otherwise, I'm not sure it's desirable class design to consider that an OK state of affairs.

 

I think all of us who constantly switch specs to use the optimal one for particular fights would agree that they should implement dual specs. I know I certainly find it annoying. Particularly in Palace since on my slinger I go SS > Hybrid > SS > SS > Hybrid. I'm pretty sure our commando goes Gunnery > Assault > Gunnery for the first three fights and they'd love a dual spec.

 

I think it IS desirable class design to have different fights favor different specs so that there's actually a reason to learn those different specs, or use them. It sucks having a spec that is basically never good on anything, especially if it's your favorite. Ideally the damage is close enough that you can use your preferred spec even if it's suboptimal in one fight. But of course as DPS checks tighten up that becomes much less desirable (or you only get to keep one spec if you're incredibly top 1% good on that spec, would probably do well no matter what, and would still get better results in a more optimal spec).

 

Anyway yeah, Dual Spec please bioware. Thanks.

Edited April 4, 2014 by ArchangelLBC

[cashogy_reborn]

I just want to say that if they do intend us to be in a different spec to optimize toward each boss fight, then they need to implement a dual spec function that allows us to switch on the fly. Otherwise, you're asking dps classes to stop the action between almost every single boss encounter to re-do their talent trees, which is quite annoying (and I know, b/c I do this between gunnery and assault and even within gunnery when I need Decoy), and doubly annoying in timed runs.

 

Otherwise, I'm not sure it's desirable class design to consider that an OK state of affairs.

 

How long does it take you to re-do your talent trees? I think it takes me 30-45 seconds to do it, including placing the 2 combat abilities in the right toolbar slots.

 

Field Respec is basically dual-spec on steroids.

[ArchangelLBC]

How long does it take you to re-do your talent trees? I think it takes me 30-45 seconds to do it, including placing the 2 combat abilities in the right toolbar slots.

 

Field Respec is basically dual-spec on steroids.

 

It's still annoying to have to take that 30-45 seconds out of your time in the middle of a raid, and even then that's only after you've done it long enough. When you first start doing it it's a lot longer. And on some classes the keybinds you want move around a lot more. Instead of changing one or two keybinds you're changing 5 or so, and of course depending on your own keybinds, even other commandos will find themselves moving a lot more than two abilities. And shoot if you switch from a DPS spec to a heal or tank spec? Forget about it. You're basically redoing the most crucial parts of your bars. Compared to just being able to hit a button and instantly your talents and keybinds and even equipment have been changed to the new desired spec?

 

Cash what the hell do you have against QoL improvements? First the ammo counter, then this. If you don't care nothing requires you to comment. Not recognizing the benefits though is just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse.

[Euthyphro]

Agreed with ArchAngel. Yes, respeccing takes less than a minute, but I would prefer not to spend a minute mindlessly respeccing, switching ammo cells, and rearranging my bars between every fight. I didn't threaten to cancel my sub over it, just saying that if the fights continue to reward spec switching than a smoother switching interface would be a huge quality of life improvement.

 

In my ideal world both gunnery and assault would be viable in every fight, perhaps within 100 dps of each other, such that there'd really be no penalty to sticking with one spec that fits your personal playstyle.

[TACeMossie]

How long does it take you to re-do your talent trees? I think it takes me 30-45 seconds to do it, including placing the 2 combat abilities in the right toolbar slots.

 

Field Respec is basically dual-spec on steroids.

 

I dunno about commandos, but i've gotten it down to 15 seconds on my vanguard (including swapping stances around, changing cell and everything.) Lets me open an assault dummy parse with a pulse generator pulse cannon with 3 stacks

[stockwizzle]

It's still annoying to have to take that 30-45 seconds out of your time in the middle of a raid, and even then that's only after you've done it long enough. When you first start doing it it's a lot longer. And on some classes the keybinds you want move around a lot more. Instead of changing one or two keybinds you're changing 5 or so, and of course depending on your own keybinds, even other commandos will find themselves moving a lot more than two abilities. And shoot if you switch from a DPS spec to a heal or tank spec? Forget about it. You're basically redoing the most crucial parts of your bars. Compared to just being able to hit a button and instantly your talents and keybinds and even equipment have been changed to the new desired spec?

 

Cash what the hell do you have against QoL improvements? First the ammo counter, then this. If you don't care nothing requires you to comment. Not recognizing the benefits though is just being obtuse for the sake of being obtuse.

 

 

why do you even care? you dont even main a merc/mando so annoying go to ur slinger forums and talk there

[Gyronamics]

Question answers are mildly enlightening which is all can be expected.

 

So hopes for:

 

More damage for Gunnery

 

Cheaper HiB

 

*something for commando pvp*

 

That ghastly slow in Assault needs to be binned. It is too trivial in every aspect to be a survival or offensive tool. Gunnery stockstrike root for 4s is a survival and offensive tool because it pins leaps and enemy objective players (utility), gives time to get away or to build a burst. It's been underlined that 6s lockout on plasma cell is deliberate and there to stay. The same plasma cell which procs this slow, thus making the slow itself unreliable.

 

The vanguard version is fine and better and reliable since their proc system is not bound to 6s, is part of their rotation and they are in fact a melee with instant attacks which really likes being able to stick to targets they are 4-10m from.

 

What is the use of an unreliable, weak, short slow mostly proc'd by sub optimal attacks to a class which needs LOS and cast time to do 70-80% of their damage. Could it really be buffed so much that players would take it? On top of the huge ask of taking the highly interruptable and cleanseable Assault into PVP instead of the more solid, all round Gunnery option?

 

Oh also AoE buff to Assault -> especially desirable because Assault bonus regen is nil when not focused on single target rotation.

 

Alacrity might be useful in the future by working on ICD, swear I made a thread asking for this a while ago, no response. In the meantime it's unclear what happens to those alacrity points currently in the tree.

 

I dunno about commandos, but i've gotten it down to 15 seconds on my vanguard (including swapping stances around, changing cell and everything.) Lets me open an assault dummy parse with a pulse generator pulse cannon with 3 stacks

 

Although true, I can't see the worth in such an artificial parse. Would never be able to build stacks very shortly before a pull and you can't swap specs in pvp.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Gyronamics

[cs_zoltan]

No one said you asked for it. Cs was originally responding to the devs where the DEVS said they had bringing the two specs to equal DPS was on their to do list, noting that no in fact they shouldn't do the same DPS because sustained specs should be ahead of burst specs. Then someone quoted cs saying in their opinion the DPS specs should be equal so it's just purely a matter of preference, which is when cs said what you originally quoted saying no one had asked for what cs was talking about even though the devs had specifically said making the specs equal in DPS was on their to do list.

 

Thank you, you spared me the trouble to point that out

[Kaos_KidSWTOR]

Thanks for the super answers devs! If I had to make a suggestion on Gunnery/Arsenal ammo/energy management it would be to tie the cost reduction to a current proc or add another 100% proc that is just for reducing the ammo cost. For example, each stack of Charged Barrels/Target Lock reduces the cost of the next High Impact Bolt/Rail Shot by X amount. Another idea, Curtain of Fire/Barrage now also reduces the cost of the next Full Auto/Unload by X amount. If you're adding a new proc maybe each Demolition Round/Heatseeker Missiles has a 100% chance of making the next Grav Round/Tracer missile free, or reduces the cost of the next two Grav Rounds/Tracer Missiles by X amount.

 

As for increasing current defensive cooldowns my first idea would be to look at Reflexive Shield/Energy Rebounder as it's currently very lackluster. There is also the idea of augmenting Adrenaline Rush for Commados, but I'm not sure what that would look like.

 

You have Ammo/Heat issues with Gunnery/Arsenal? Wow. I thought that was impossible?

[Zoom_VI]

You have Ammo/Heat issues with Gunnery/Arsenal? Wow. I thought that was impossible?

 

Gunnery is very easy to get into ammo issues. The main issue isn't with HiB cost imo. Its with cell recharger. Right now you get that 8 ammo every six seconds which sounds fine, but it can also cost you a lot, particularly if it gives you that eight ammo right when you at high regen.

 

Really what they ought to do is make is make it similar to tactic's regen with less ammo but more often, so that ammo regen isn't so blocky.

[venomlash]

Gunnery is very easy to get into ammo issues. The main issue isn't with HiB cost imo. Its with cell recharger. Right now you get that 8 ammo every six seconds which sounds fine, but it can also cost you a lot, particularly if it gives you that eight ammo right when you at high regen.

 

Really what they ought to do is make is make it similar to tactic's regen with less ammo but more often, so that ammo regen isn't so blocky.

 

Entirely this. Cell Charger used to be even dumber; it refunded 1 old ammo (8 new ammo) every time Full Auto or any Round critted, with a 3 second rate limit. Then they changed it to do the ammo regen every 6 seconds regardless of ability crits to match with Tactics's ammo regen. Then when they switched Troopers over from the 12 ammo system to the 100 ammo system, they changed things for Tactics but never did for Gunnery. Why? Nobody knows.

[Bejarid]

Gunnery is very easy to get into ammo issues.

 

Much easier than as Assault, I've found.

 

I agree that HiB really isn't the thing to be pointing fingers at, especially as it's being reduced further in 2.7. I know PTS testers have indicated ammo will still be tight with the now guaranteed CoF proc - which I would have said to be a prime candidate for an ammo cost reduction to FA when it procs. Tweaking Cell Charger would probably help out most.

[AngelFluttershy]

How would this play with Degauss? Would it be only for Gunnery/Combat Medic, or would you create a threat dump that makes you untargetable, DR and 25% defense chance for Assault?

Interesting idea, but Im not sure how that meshes with the current talented effects for Diversion/Chaff Flare.

 

If you made the first 3s of Diversion to have this anti-target effect, and then extend the duration maybe another 6 seconds that applies the secondary effect (Combat Medic could use a talented ability on Diversion).

 

Here's another crazy idea: Combat Medic gets a talent that makes Diversion reset the cooldown of Reactive Shield.

I'd say that Decoy and Degauss would have to be changed if my suggestion was implemented. This would either be into passives or alterations to the talent (like short speed increases or something).

 

Also, I could see activating Diversion giving a buff that every time you're hit within the buff window lowering the cooldown of Reactive shield, but no way it could be instant.

 

I just want to say that if they do intend us to be in a different spec to optimize toward each boss fight, then they need to implement a dual spec function that allows us to switch on the fly. Otherwise, you're asking dps classes to stop the action between almost every single boss encounter to re-do their talent trees, which is quite annoying (and I know, b/c I do this between gunnery and assault and even within gunnery when I need Decoy), and doubly annoying in timed runs.

 

Otherwise, I'm not sure it's desirable class design to consider that an OK state of affairs.

It takes me less than 20 seconds to respec (I have my bars set-up so the gained abilities fall into the correct slots immediately) and I do it while the group is clearing trash so I'm not wasting any time. I see the appeal of dual spec but it's just not necessary, even if you don't have the specs memorized just have it written down and glance at it if you forget anything.

 

Going from DPS to tank/healer I can see that a bit more, but I'm usually not switching roles entirely inside an Ops so the timed pressure of that argument is moot. I'm not trying to knock QoL improvements, it's just that I don't see it high up on the priority list when compared to other things, like Commandos getting an ammo counter on their bar.

 

You have Ammo/Heat issues with Gunnery/Arsenal? Wow. I thought that was impossible?

The previous posters have covered the topic well. Gunnery ammo management is awful at the moment when the player is performing at a higher level due to the burst consumptions of ammo. BioWare either needs to improve baseline ammo generation (like making Cell Charger occur more often like Tactics Vanguards), or add talents that reduce/eliminate energy costs at important points in the rotation (most noticeably on proc'd Full Auto or Grav Round spam).

 

Much easier than as Assault, I've found.

 

I agree that HiB really isn't the thing to be pointing fingers at, especially as it's being reduced further in 2.7. I know PTS testers have indicated ammo will still be tight with the now guaranteed CoF proc - which I would have said to be a prime candidate for an ammo cost reduction to FA when it procs. Tweaking Cell Charger would probably help out most.

I'm in agreement with this idea. HiB isn't an issue due to it's already low cost and I don't think making it free would be that big of an improvement unless it's a change in conjunction with another ammo change (like Cell Charger proccing more often). Typically, Grav Round and Full Auto seem to be the abilities that push ammo into low levels. Demo Round to some extent as well.

[Khevar]

You have Ammo/Heat issues with Gunnery/Arsenal? Wow. I thought that was impossible?

I've noticed you sometimes pop in a thread, make odd statements like the above, someone refutes it, and you never respond. It's possible you're trolling and I've just taken the bait. But on the off-chance you're serious ...

 

Try this before 2.7 drops:

 

1. Spec to Pyro. How many times do you need to use Rapid Shots in your rotation?

2. Spec to Arsenal. How many times do you need to use Rapid Shots in your rotation?

3. For bonus points, put on the old 4-piece set bonus (free Rail Shot) and run Arsenal again.

 

Once you've completed the exercise, come back to this thread and explain to me how impossible it is for Arsenal to have heat problems.

Edited April 4, 2014 by Khevar

[PhatMcMuffins]

Interesting idea, but Im not sure how that meshes with the current talented effects for Diversion/Chaff Flare.

 

If you made the first 3s of Diversion to have this anti-target effect, and then extend the duration maybe another 6 seconds that applies the secondary effect (Combat Medic could use a talented ability on Diversion).

 

Here's another crazy idea: Combat Medic gets a talent that makes Diversion reset the cooldown of Reactive Shield.

 

Combat Medic should get and uninterruptable talent tied to it. This way, we don't need to use our shield in situations where we are not taking damage but a teammate is whilst another opponent is focusing on interrupting us. Just enough to get 1-2 casts off would be amazing.

[Bejarid]

Typically, Grav Round and Full Auto seem to be the abilities that push ammo into low levels. Demo Round to some extent as well.

 

Precisely, as those are our three highest cost rotational abilities. Cell Charger gives eight ammo every six seconds, but in those four globals we can expend as much as 64 ammo (FA - GR - FA - Demo, for example) and passively regen 31.8 ammo (with 0 Alac rating).

 

I'm not saying we need infinite ammo - resource management is a large part of the game in any spec, and should be. But theoretically having roughly a quarter of our resource bar in deficit within the short window of our talented bonus regen seems very punishing compared to most other specs I've played.

[goeblu]

PVE: I don't think gunnery's lackluster sustained dps is because of the cost of HiB. The biggest reason for this is that it is used on once every 15 seconds. I think the easiest way to increase sustained dps for gunnery is to make full auto free with curtain of fire proc. I also agree with changing cell charger to be like vanguards version.

Another option would be do reduce CD of reserve powercell.

 

PVP: As for the survivability question. I think they should make adrenaline rush like assault vanguards. Just give a flat DR during its duration. I think this would help a lot but not solve all of our problems.

 

Wildcard: All the needs to be done with plasma grenade is reduce cost to 16. Another thing that should be tweeked is the explosive round talent. make it so plasma cell activate on all affected targets, like flame sweep/explosive surge is for assault vanguards.

[Khevar]

PVE: I don't think gunnery's lackluster sustained dps is because of the cost of HiB. The biggest reason for this is that it is used on once every 15 seconds. I think the easiest way to increase sustained dps for gunnery is to make full auto free with curtain of fire proc. I also agree with changing cell charger to be like vanguards version.

Another option would be do reduce CD of reserve powercell.

One of the reasons I still took to free HiB as a potential solution is my "pre 2.0" experiences. While running as Gunnery I rarely had to use Hammer Shot. So long as I wasn't unlucky with CoF procs, and used RP and RC as efficiently as possible, I was able to use every hard-hitting ability in my toolbar on CD with a GR filler.

 

I can't speak to the 2.7 changes (I never got around to trying it on the PTS), but some of those who did noted that HS was pretty much required as a part of the filler. A free HiB (even if a 15s CD) would reduce the number of times HS is needed. Not sure if that would be enough, but it's possible.

 

Every time you use a GR instead of a HS you're doing to do ~2000 more damage to the target.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Khevar

[Gyronamics]

One of the reasons I still took to free HiB as a potential solution is my "pre 2.0" experiences. While running as Gunnery I rarely had to use Hammer Shot. So long as I wasn't unlucky with CoF procs, and used RP and RC as efficiently as possible, I was able to use every hard-hitting ability in my toolbar on CD with a GR filler.

 

I can't speak to the 2.7 changes (I never got around to trying it on the PTS), but some of those who did noted that HS was pretty much required as a part of the filler. A free HiB (even if a 15s CD) would reduce the number of times HS is needed. Not sure if that would be enough, but it's possible.

 

Every time you use a GR instead of a HS you're doing to do ~2000 more damage to the target.

 

There are 4 GCD between CoF procs so HS is compulsory for a sustainable output.

 

I'm hearing people say "I want free HiB" when they mean "I want more damage" which isn't such a bad thing to want but free HiB probably isn't how it will happen.

 

It's nothing to do with sustainability, sustainability with the guaranteed proc is on rails now, you do FA then 4 GCD of whatever that ends in a grav round and FA again. If X number of HS are needed to balance regen and spending then that's the deal.

 

There is little challenge in the Gunnery rotation beyond keeping track of how many GCD since you used FA (counting to four) because getting interrupted or forced to move at any point at all does not weaken your ammo position.

 

On the other hand Assault is 6s bursts of spending ammo to regen it at the end with a HiB which if you've played Dirty Fighting (slinger) or Lethality (sniper) is a familiar experience of regen at the end of a rotation. If you get mucked about it gets a bit sketchy with ammo as you might not get to that last regen part but that's why Assault has more frequent safety nets with Recharge Cells and Reserve Powercell to account for that.

 

With the automatic regen of Cell Charger that challenge is removed so if the rotation challenge for Gunnery is knowing how many Hammer Shots you need to get in to balance the books and not cripple your ammo then fair enough.

 

Flattening out the Cell Recharger is much more important for reliability than chasing a free HiB usable every second rotation of 9s which the devs are clearly not keen on. I suspect they think Gunnery regen is already quite generous in its hands free nature.

 

I wouldn't like to see Gunnery made into a clone of Sharpshooter which never needs to check its energy but also can't overdrive its damage output because it has no free fillers, it's just constant ability chains.

Edited April 5, 2014 by Gyronamics

[ShadowMudkip]

Change the cell regen to act like Tactics, fewer cells but more frequently.

[ArchangelLBC]

why do you even care? you dont even main a merc/mando so annoying go to ur slinger forums and talk there

 

Awww did I hurt your widdle feelings? There there it's alright. Maybe I care because I hope for the day when I can go back to maining commando without feeling like my raid group would be much better served with me on gunslinger. Maybe I just continue to hold a special place in my heart for commando because it was my first class and my main through the first several tiers of raiding. Why do you care that I care outside of the fact that you tried to tell someone to learn to read and then someone else had to point out that maybe you should take your own advice.

 

I wouldn't like to see Gunnery made into a clone of Lightning which never needs to check its energy but also can't overdrive its damage output because it has no free fillers, it's just constant ability chains.

 

SS actually can overdrive its damage by throwing in more fillers and balancing that with your ammo bar is nice. It's poor lightning/TK that never even glances at the energy bar but also can't really do much to improve damage.

 

I think we can all agree that cell charger should be tweaked to reflect the vanguard version, and with 2 ammo per GCD it would actually be even easier to adjust that with whatever alacrity does to our GCDs if they get around to that change. Making Full Auto free with curtain of fire is probably a tad too much, but it would simplify our ammo management to the point that we really wouldn't ever have to worry about it. Indeed we'd be pretty ammo positive at that point I would think,

[PhatMcMuffins]

why do you even care? you dont even main a merc/mando so annoying go to ur slinger forums and talk there

 

You're just some die-hard commando (which if that were all, I could respect) that thinks no one could possibly understand this class as well as you. Anyone is entitled to giving their opinion on the state of a class that they do play, even if it isn't their main. They may be wrong, but that's why its called an opinion.

 

Oh and before you call me a tier whatever PvPer who shouldn't give any advice, check my rating. But I'm sure it's rough with all the pros playing on Harbinger. Stop being an elitist in a video game forum

[stockwizzle]

You're just some die-hard commando (which if that were all, I could respect) that thinks no one could possibly understand this class as well as you. Anyone is entitled to giving their opinion on the state of a class that they do play, even if it isn't their main. They may be wrong, but that's why its called an opinion.

 

Oh and before you call me a tier whatever PvPer who shouldn't give any advice, check my rating. But I'm sure it's rough with all the pros playing on Harbinger. Stop being an elitist in a video game forum

 

lol wow you guys must have me in a nut shell.. except all the angel ever asks for and gets mad about in any commando thread is for a damn ammo counter and buff damage.. PLUS he was trying to run for mando rep and failed horribly obviously the rest of the mando pop saw what i see in him but that is enough of ragging on him.. you on the other hand are simply frustrating yeah i read what was said by the devs and you and i was saying that us (the mando community as a whole) were never asking for our turret spec to be on par with dps with our dot spec.. so like i said maybe there was a learn to read issue going on with you..

[stockwizzle]

You're just some die-hard commando (which if that were all, I could respect) that thinks no one could possibly understand this class as well as you. Anyone is entitled to giving their opinion on the state of a class that they do play, even if it isn't their main. They may be wrong, but that's why its called an opinion.

 

Oh and before you call me a tier whatever PvPer who shouldn't give any advice, check my rating. But I'm sure it's rough with all the pros playing on Harbinger. Stop being an elitist in a video game forum

 

PS how can i check your rating when i dont even know your toons name

PPS thanks for calling me elite helps flex my EPEEN lol