Saber Reflect needs a buff!

[Alec_Fortescue]

Capped damage is a joke. I want to reflect at least 80% of the powerful attack back to the enemy. Sniper hits me for like 8k with his crit and I can only reflect it as 4k? pls

[Manweth]

Capped damage is a joke. I want to reflect at least 80% of the powerful attack back to the enemy. Sniper hits me for like 8k with his crit and I can only reflect it as 4k? pls

 

PvE problem required it to be redesigned back in 2.0 PTS.

 

Because Guardians were taking down OPS bosses single handedly with reflection of heavy damage attacks.

 

PvP wise, it was not funny either. There was a video of 3 snipers and 1 merc killing themselves on a reflect shield. It was really really overpowered.

[Alec_Fortescue]

PvE problem required it to be redesigned back in 2.0 PTS.

 

Because Guardians were taking down OPS bosses single handedly with reflection of heavy damage attacks.

 

PvP wise, it was not funny either. There was a video of 3 snipers and 1 merc killing themselves on a reflect shield. It was really really overpowered.

 

Cuz they were stoopid.

 

But from overpowered it went to moderate, instead of good, defensive/offensive 1 minute long cooldown that's very situational. Reflect should also protect you from knockbacks.

Edited March 21, 2014 by Alec_Fortescue

[drummerinthesun]

Cuz they were stoopid.

 

But from overpowered it went to moderate, instead of good, defensive/offensive 1 minute long cooldown that's very situational. Reflect should also protect you from knockbacks.

 

Why don't you stop cluttering the forum with QQ posts and, "We should have all of the good things from other specs for Guards/Juggs." There can't be Win buttons in a game that needs balance. We don't need homogenized classes. We need something unique, and we're in a pretty good spot right now. We don't have nearly the problems as some other classes and specs, and that's why many of them are getting changes in 2.7. They fixed us and operatives. Let them spend the time they need to on the other classes now.

[xMaranathax]

Considering that Guardians, for being Heavy Armor wearers, are very squishy and don't have a lot of DCDs, I agree with the OP.

 

Everyone whined about Saber Reflect when it first came out, mostly the snipers. The problem was that they didn't give enough time to learn to play. Period.

 

Most snipers sit back and click their abilities and watch their target's health. It's a known fact. Due to their lack of battle awareness, they scream and holler and want a nerf.

 

I think that if you are stupid enough to continue attacking a target that reflects 100% of your damage back, then you deserve to die. Besides, whats the timer on it, like 3 seconds?

[jack__]

Considering that Guardians, for being Heavy Armor wearers, are very squishy and don't have a lot of DCDs, I agree with the OP.

 

Everyone whined about Saber Reflect when it first came out, mostly the snipers. The problem was that they didn't give enough time to learn to play. Period.

 

Most snipers sit back and click their abilities and watch their target's health. It's a known fact. Due to their lack of battle awareness, they scream and holler and want a nerf.

 

I think that if you are stupid enough to continue attacking a target that reflects 100% of your damage back, then you deserve to die. Besides, whats the timer on it, like 3 seconds?

 

A guardian has 4 dcd's, which is more than every other class in the game with the exception of sentinels. And even though heavy armour might not seem like too much, the difference is still there (why do you think people go 'Sorc Hunting' whenever they are trying to get a big hit). And all of the guardian dcd's with the exception of reflect are very general purpose, and reflects uses are broad as well.

[Aelanis]

Considering that Guardians, for being Heavy Armor wearers, are very squishy and don't have a lot of DCDs, I agree with the OP.

 

Everyone whined about Saber Reflect when it first came out, mostly the snipers. The problem was that they didn't give enough time to learn to play. Period.

 

Most snipers sit back and click their abilities and watch their target's health. It's a known fact. Due to their lack of battle awareness, they scream and holler and want a nerf.

 

I think that if you are stupid enough to continue attacking a target that reflects 100% of your damage back, then you deserve to die. Besides, whats the timer on it, like 3 seconds?

 

Speaking as a Shadow Tank, I watched Guardians get an ability much like my own, previously very unique, Resilience. It works on almost as many things, builds a ton of threat in PVE as a tank, and deals damage back to the attacker, building even more threat. It has the same cooldown and duration as Resilience, between tank specs and dps specs, and tank specs get even more out of it through talents. I've watched my suite of cooldowns change and adapt, though never getting strictly better, and yet we, both Shadows and Vanguards, have watched Guardians DCD suite expand and improve.

 

From a tank's perspective, we've each got a DR cooldown, a 'healing' cooldown, and a Defense chance cooldown. Respectively, they are: Battle Readiness (Shadow), Warding Call (Guardian), and Reactive Shield (Vanguard); Battle Readiness (again)(Shadow), Focused Defense (Guardian), and Adrenaline Rush (Vanguard); and Deflection (Shadow), Saber Ward (Guardian), and Riot Gas (Vanguard). On top of this, Shadows get Resilience and Guardians get Enure (which used to take the place of Focused Defense for the most part) and Saber Reflect. In every instance, the Guardian's cooldown timers are competitive with the other two classes, and the effects of the abilities are mostly in line with the others, if not vastly better.

 

Battle Readiness is the best among the DR abilities by a small margin, and Warding Call is the worst by about as small a margin. Back when Enure was the go-to "heal" for Guardians, things were fairly balanced. On demand 30% extra hp that lasted for 15 seconds vs 15% heal + extra heals vs rapid heals while below 30%. With the Focused Defense changes, neither of the other two compare any more: it heals an excessively large portion of your health at a very nice rate (read: nearly instantly when under heavy fire). Saber Ward is mechanically the strongest among the Defense chance cooldowns, even with its longer cooldown timer, as it grants additional F/T DR and 100% Defense chance for the first two seconds. Deflection only gives the Defense chance, and Riot Gas is an immobile accuracy debuff with a smaller effect than the others, even if it does have half the cooldown. Saber Reflect and Resilience are nearly interchangeable, except that the former generates a ton of threat and deals damage back, and then Guardians additionally have Enure over every other tank.

 

From a tanking perspective, I see you asking for the tank with the, now hands down (thanks to Focused Defense changes), DCD suite to get a buff to one of its DCDs. I find that completely ridiculous, as much as I love Saber Reflect on my Guardian. It's quite strong enough as it is.

[Vid-szhite]

Let this thread die, people. Nobody with any sense thinks saber reflect needs a buff.

[venomlash]

Saber Reflect is fine as is. Heck, it's a pretty gnarly little number!

 

My Guardian and Jugg are still lowbies, so this is my major impression of the ability:

Going through HM Hammer Station as a healer, we get to a pull where three strong adds will spawn in. I'm expecting to have to do some serious burst heals because those adds hit pretty hard and can be hard for the tank to pick up...oh wait, Guardian tank just went in, popped Saber Reflect, and the adds went full trollbait and killed themselves against him. Seriously, it's killer-diller in PvE especially when the adds come a-knocking.

[Alec_Fortescue]

it needs a buff and to reflect more damage.

[Aelanis]

it needs a buff and to reflect more damage.

 

Under what misguided premises do you believe that this already amazing ability needs a buff? Do you think Guardian tanks need to be able to pop Ops bosses for 20k+ damage?

[Vid-szhite]

it needs a buff and to reflect more damage.

 

No it doesn't. They tried having it do uncapped damage and guardians were killing NiM bosses on their own by reflecting their attacks. It's perfectly fine as-is.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Vid-szhite

[Andrew_Past]

Under what misguided premises do you believe that this already amazing ability needs a buff? Do you think Guardian tanks need to be able to pop Ops bosses for 20k+ damage?

 

He's looking at it from a PVP perspective.

 

Tbh, I think Reflect is great as it is. I would just make sure that the damage cap scales with gear somehow (if it doesn't already.)

Edited April 12, 2014 by Andrew_Past

[Sybriah]

By buff, you mean nerf. As Jugs shouldn't have this ability in the first place. Yes, lets give Jugs more of what Assassins have.

[Sybriah]

Under what misguided premises do you believe that this already amazing ability needs a buff? Do you think Guardian tanks need to be able to pop Ops bosses for 20k+ damage?

 

Guardian and Jug players are generally the worst...so this shouldn't be surprising.

[TACeMossie]

No it doesn't. They tried having it do uncapped damage and guardians were killing NiM bosses on their own by reflecting their attacks. It's perfectly fine as-is.

 

Lemme guess. 2 Guardian tanks, 10 guardian Dps. the DPS alternate taunt + saber reflects and the boss ends up doing ridiculously more damage to themself instead of to the DPS who taunted it.

[GrandLordMenace]

Imagine this in TFB:

 

Guardian Saber Reflects doom for 2 billion damage.

 

all 3 dread guard die.

 

Saber Reflect Sunder's The End attack.

 

Boss has 10 percent knocked off of it's health

 

The list goes onward.

 

While the cap is a TAD low (it's only 4.6k), the ability is powerful enough as is. If it gave SOME AOE DR I wouldn't complain but TBH guardians have so many CDs and **** now that we're probably the easiest to heal DPS in this entire game.

 

Y'know what I see when I see a sorc in PVP (Come to ebon hawk, each imperial premade has around 2-4 sorcs, it's HILARIOUS, and they end up just being Vigi freekills (Not so much in 2.7 but the amount of bad sorcs is hilarious so it doesn't matter anyway.)

[Vid-szhite]

Guardian and Jug players are generally the worst...so this shouldn't be surprising.

 

As a Jugg main...

 

...

 

yeah. =/

 

90% of Juggernauts I see are effing derps. You find good ones here and there, but my god, it boggles the mind at how so many could be so clueless. By far the worst of them are tank specced. Never use anything but Vicious Slash and Assault, and then they PvP and don't guard or taunt, as if their massive HP pool is reason enough to exist. Oy.

Edited April 12, 2014 by Vid-szhite

[Andrew_Past]

As a Jugg main...

 

...

 

yeah. =/

 

90% of Juggernauts I see are effing derps. You find good ones here and there, but my god, it boggles the mind at how so many could be so clueless. By far the worst of them are tank specced. They PvP in Soresu and don't guard or taunt, as if their massive HP pool is reason enough to exist. Oy.

That's not as bad as this sin tank I've seen in multiple games using nothing but his pull and spam his saber AOE.

[Alec_Fortescue]

Dont make it uncapped then but let me reflect 5k instead of 3k of that sniper's heavy hitter. '

[jack__]

Dont make it uncapped then but let me reflect 5k instead of 3k of that sniper's heavy hitter. '

 

Or you could just attack them to kill them like every other class in the game.

[Aelanis]

Dont make it uncapped then but let me reflect 5k instead of 3k of that sniper's heavy hitter. '

 

It's a defensive cooldown, not an offensive cooldown. Look at how much damage it can prevent (, and you can see that it's strong enough as is (lol Terminate).

[Alec_Fortescue]

It's a defensive cooldown, not an offensive cooldown. Look at how much damage it can prevent (, and you can see that it's strong enough as is (lol Terminate).

 

It's something inbetween and the ancient Indian saying was: "If something is made to do everything then it's made to suck."

[GrandLordMenace]

Dont make it uncapped then but let me reflect 5k instead of 3k of that sniper's heavy hitter. '

 

News flash: It reflects 4.6 I can pull out PVE combat logs where I reflect things that are doing around 80k damage negated to 4.6 which is then reflected.

[Aelanis]

It's something inbetween and the ancient Indian saying was: "If something is made to do everything then it's made to suck."

 

It's kinda amazing as a short term defensive cooldown, just not perfect, and it then gets to be mildly offensive. No ability should be absolutely perfect, and on just about every class I play I wish I had saber reflect. You should be happy you have such an amazing ability.