Time to brainstorm some questions

[ArchangelLBC]

I will definitely elaborate more.

 

Does the class really need an offensive cooldown? DPS wise it is already competitive with its output, an offensive cooldown is going to push it even farther.

 

A disengage would be a significant change in PvP.

 

Yes. On demand damage is a very important thing for when you need a brief burst of "stuff dies now". Imagine Battle Focus in PVP significantly increasing the likelihood of a DR/HiB crit. Right now you CAN be dangerous. With Battle Focus you WOULD be dangerous. Keep in mind that currently Commando is one of only two advanced classes (the other one being Guardian) without a meaningful offensive cooldown (arguably Combat Focus is much more of an offensive cooldown than Recharge cells, but I'll not contest the point for now).

 

Of course I wouldn't argue with a disengage either. Fact is that both ranged classes have those too in one form or another, and Hold the Line, as much as I love it, isn't really the same thing at all.

 

Fact is that last time they hinted that they had overvalued the off heal capabilities and heavy armor that commandos/mercs have. Ask them if, with that consideration in mind, both an offensive cooldown and a disengage wouldn't both be things they should maybe consider giving the class.

[stockwizzle]

Sounds as good as any, I have some thoughts to sum up and note swapping of PVP and FFA Q:

 

*scribbles*

 

PVE: Gunnery QOL change with energy control by making Cell Charger (8 energy every 6s) function the same as Tactics Vanguard Cell Generator (2 energy every 1.5s) and removing cost on High Impact Bolt so it functions as regen rather than being neutral.

 

PVP: Anti-focus defensive CD/Disengage, quote this: Underline that we do not have this supposedly universal survival button.

 

Free-for-all: QOL changes to Assault with categories for:

 

Subpar Defensive/Utility/QoL Talents:

2s 30% snare Sweltering Heat,

2% dodge and Stealth Scan CD boost Nightvision Scope,

Alacrity which makes the branch worse Weapons Calibrations and Rapid Recharge,

Knockback promoted as a resolve building AOE instead of a useful defensive CD boost like the super Adrenaline Rush cooldown of VG Assault or shield CD, HtL extension, Tenacity CD boost of Gunnery Reflexive Battery,

Possibly excessive RNG of Degauss being only 25% dodge/resist to avoid **** you really want to avoid.

 

Attacks and Talents: Why isn't Plasma Grenade something special for Assault (not buffed and not talented), why does Hail of Bolts have almost pointless buff on burning targets when we can't light that many (MV and HoB is buffed by Gunnery's 35% armour pen) allow proc of Plasma Cell on hit since cost is already prohibitive for spamming?. Why have RNG and ICD on Plasma Cell.

 

Combat: Interrupt vulnerability (medic shield really point expensive to get and full 120s CD on shield anyway), DoT cleansing is almost as crippling as interrupts.

 

i like everything that was being said in this post makes alot of sense and i feel we would get some very nice feedback from these questions.. well done gyro

[AngelFluttershy]

But I did think about PCS and I dunno, it is VERY niche just like every other defensive talent Assault has and as such it's useless most of the time unlike the generic *take less damage* talents in Gunnery. More ammo is always good ofc but when you are stunned or being thrown around you aren't in a position to be spending any either so you will regen anyway.

I take PCS over Electro Shield. With the crapload of CC in this game it can help you out more than a couple hundred damage reflected off of your Reactive Shield.

In terms of PvP, it is a decent skill due to all the CC, but in PvE it's useless most of the time. Allow me to list all the encounters just in DF and DP where PCS may or may not come into play:

 

Dread Fortress

Nefra - Nothing to activate PCS.

Draxus - Only if you have threat on Dismantlers or Guardians which there are only four of each in the whole fight in four different phases (i.e. they're hardly around). Not to mention you don't want to have threat on the Guardians, and you don't want threat on the Dismantlers for more then one knockback or you'll instantly die.

Grob'throk - Overhead Smash every ~30-45 seconds, Hold The Line is used for Pipe Smash so you won't use PCS there.

Zero - Only if you have threat on an Elite add and aren't interrupting/stunning (which you should be), you want to avoid Zero's Anti-Gravity attack.

Brontes - Nothing to activate PCS.

 

Dread Palace

Bestia - If you have threat on the Larva, which would only be every other add spawn and that's if you're on Larva duty.

Tyrans - Nothing to activate PCS.

Calphayus - I think the present phase targeted AOE may activate it? Not sure. Even then that's random target selection and only every ~30 seconds in the phase you spend the least amount of time in.

Raptus - Nothing to activate PCS as you should never be in an AOE or have threat on the boss.

Council - Nothing to activate PCS.

 

Out of concern for PvP, I'd be fine leaving PCS as is only if it swaps places with Nightvision Scope or Electro Shield in the tree. Sweltering Heat, PCS, and Weapon Calibrations are mostly useless/bad for PvE Assault so I'd rather not be forced to take pointless talents really low in the tree in order to progress upward. The only reason points are put into Soldier's Endurance is because it's the lesser of the evils to put points into.

Edited March 27, 2014 by AngelFluttershy

[ArchangelLBC]

A few minor corrections.

 

-Would the final phase on Brontes if you get targeted, and then lifted and thrown back, not activate PCS?

 

-As far as I know the Larvae don't actually CC you in any way.

 

Other than that you're right.

[AngelFluttershy]

A few minor corrections.

 

-Would the final phase on Brontes if you get targeted, and then lifted and thrown back, not activate PCS?

 

-As far as I know the Larvae don't actually CC you in any way.

 

Other than that you're right.

 

-That's true for Brontes, but unless she's hitting you into a wall you're going to be thrown so far back that the 8 extra energy would have been passively regened anyway.

 

-Larva root you when they dig and ambush you from under the ground. That's their version of leap.

Edited March 27, 2014 by AngelFluttershy

[cashogy_reborn]

Here are the draft of the questions, I'll take some feedback and maybe make a few minor changes but they are basically locked in.

 

PvE: Overall, Commando is in a pretty good place in PvE right now, and is at least viable at most levels of content. However, Gunnery is under performing in comparison to the other turret-based ranged DPS classes by a significant, but not enormous, margin. Most often, I see the developers hold up Commando's ability to off-heal as some kind of reasoning as to why it might possible have lower output. The idea of this is absurd, as using global cooldowns on healing abilities rather than DPS in PvE is only going to further reduce DPS output, at the cost of a marginal-at-best benefit to the group. If a class is lacking in its primary role, it will be ruled out in most cases, regardless of what its secondary strengths might be.

 

It is the community's belief that this lack of DPS in Gunnery spec is likely tied to the ammo cost of High Impact Bolt. Several ideas were brainstormed, but it is widely believed that returning HIB to the 0 ammo cost it possessed pre-2.0 would allow Gunnery to compete against the other ranged turret DPS classes. Are the devs aware that Gunnery is lagging behind other ranged turret DPS specs, and have they considered the possible methods of bringing Gunnery up to a place where it is competitive with the other ranged turret DPS specs?

 

PvP: There are many people that believe that Commando is in a terrible place for PvP, especially at a higher level. While I believe that the situation is not nearly as bad as that, it is far from ideal. One of the reasons for this belief is Commando's lack of any real "OH S**T"/"get out of dodge" defensive ability. The recent changes to Sniper/Slinger defensive cooldowns prompted this response from one of the devs:

 

Gang,

 

One of the changes that has generated the most vocal feedback is the change to the Sniper and 'Slingers defensive cooldown, Evasion/Dodge. We firmly believe that these Classes are lacking in a distinct emergency survive button, something that each other Advanced Class has (either via escapes like a Vanish, or more brute force mans like an Undying Rage)

 

It is clear that the design intent is to provide particularly vulnerable classes with means to either quickly extricate themselves from dangerous situations, or to straight up mitigate a crap-ton of damage for a few precious seconds. With this statement in mind, Commando has no such ability. Heavy Armor does not provide anywhere near as significant as an advantage as past devs have claimed, and Commando has a very limited set of tools to escape from sustained pressure. Hold the Line appears to make an attempt to fill that role, but it fails to provide the ability to quickly out-distance opponents who are in hot pursuit.

 

Based on this, it is my belief that Commando would benefit from a 'disengage' type ability. Similar to Gunslinger's 'High Tail It', the idea would be to quickly create distance between the Commando and his/her opponents. A tool such as a disengage would round out Commando's set of survival-based utility nicely, and would provide the class with the "OH S**T" button that it is in clear need of. If you take a look at the PvP leaderboards, it is easy to see that Commando is one of the more difficult Advanced Classes to find success with in a competitive environment.

 

Are the devs aware that Commando is in need of some kind of emergency defensive/disengage ability, and are they planning on addressing that need in the near future?

 

Wildcard: Assault spec is one of my favorite DPS specs to play, but it has been faced with several issues on the Commando side of things since 2.0 was released. First, it lacks any real semblance of group based utility outside of a weak slow. Assault Commando would benefit significantly from the addition of a ranged root. This would go a long way to improving the spec's ability to kite (which it cannot do quite effectively with such a poor slow, and the spec is lacking in non-Resolve-building forms of CC). Just to offer some ideas, I think that Sticky Grenade would be a prime candidate for the addition of this effect. 3s root, breaks on damage after 2s.

 

There is also some pretty weak synergy with several of the class's baseline abilities, particularly Hail of Bolts and Plasma Grenade:

- Plasma Grenade, the only baseline non-proc fire DoT that Commando possesses, gains absolutely no benefit at all from any talents within the Assault tree (a fire based DoT tree).

- Hail of Bolts has a 9% damage increase from hitting a burning target, but outside of Plasma Grenade and tab-dotting (incredibly inefficient way of dealing damage) there is no way to maintain DoTs on multiple targets.

 

In addition, there is also a kind of phantom-internal-cooldown on the ability to proc the Plasma Cell DoT using ranged-based attacks. If you have already proc'd said DoT, you cannot proc it with a ranged-based damage ability for 6s (duration of the DoT). This did not exist pre 2.0, and it currently makes it very difficult to effectively switch targets (you are forced to spend ammo on either Incendiary Round or Explosive Rounds in order to apply a new DoT within that 6s window).

 

The alacrity talents within the class also do not make much sense. Taking any alacrity will disrupt the flow of the internal cooldown on Ionic Accelerator (procs HIB reset). It was mentioned in the Powertech responses that the alacrity in Rapid Recharge will be exchanged for a crit chance increase.

 

 

Are the devs aware of these issues? Since 2.0 Assault has been lacking in terms of baseline synergy and group-oriented utility. What are the dev's plans to address each of these issues?

[DaftVaduhhh]

With the PvP question they're going to throw Concussion Charge and Concussive Round straight at you. With the change to Tech Override they're kinda going to have a point.

 

They're expecting you to use Stockstrike & HotL as Gunnery and Concussion Charge and HotL as Assault. If someone is still tailing you, you chuck down Electro Net and walk away. THEN you still have an instant Concussive Round on CD if you save Tech Override for it (a little trickier for Assault but there's the slow, and a stun).

 

You can argue a rebalance to allow for another disengage but the mechanics are there.

[ArchangelLBC]

Mention the ammo counter at the end =P

 

"btw when the mercs asked you guys said a numerical ammo display shouldn't be an issue. Any word on that?"

 

-That's true for Brontes, but unless she's hitting you into a wall you're going to be thrown so far back that the 8 extra energy would have been passively regened anyway.

 

-Larva root you when they dig and ambush you from under the ground. That's their version of leap.

 

-Fair enough. I do try to keep my back to the wall but things happen. Might not be entirely wasted even so though if you burn ammo big time anticipating getting knocked back.

 

-I actually didn't know that. I never have much occasion to move against those things. That's good to know =)

Edited March 28, 2014 by ArchangelLBC

[cashogy_reborn]

With the PvP question they're going to throw Concussion Charge and Concussive Round straight at you. With the change to Tech Override they're kinda going to have a point.

 

They're expecting you to use Stockstrike & HotL as Gunnery and Concussion Charge and HotL as Assault. If someone is still tailing you, you chuck down Electro Net and walk away. THEN you still have an instant Concussive Round on CD if you save Tech Override for it (a little trickier for Assault but there's the slow, and a stun).

 

You can argue a rebalance to allow for another disengage but the mechanics are there.

 

Another disengage? Are you thick?

[JediMasterSLC]

Another disengage? Are you thick?

 

Yeah but you gotta admit, there's a good chance that's what the devs are gonna say.

[cashogy_reborn]

Yeah but you gotta admit, there's a good chance that's what the devs are gonna say.

 

There's a good chance the devs are fking morons too.... so there's that. Lol

[AMightyKnight]

Mention the ammo counter at the end =P

 

"btw when the mercs asked you guys said a numerical ammo display shouldn't be an issue. Any word on that?" [/Quote]

+1

 

Id add something like 'its better with 2.7 but still not enough' to the first question. Otherwise we ll just get 'yeah maybe but we got you all those awsome changes with 2.7 and we are Monitoring it closely' as an answer.

[Annuminas]

The High Velocity Gas Cylinder should give you 3% accuracy instead of the 3% alacrity which can be even harmful to our rotation.

[Gyronamics]

The High Velocity Gas Cylinder should give you 3% accuracy instead of the 3% alacrity which can be even harmful to our rotation.

 

No it can't. Gunnery needs alacrity.

 

Gunnery in 2.7 has an 8s ICD on CoF which is 0.5s too long for 5GCD and 1.0s short of 6GCD

 

Alacrity won't change the ICD of 8s so you're at 6GCD to reproc. The 3% alacrity reduces the cast time so you get the stock 9s of 6GCD over closer to the 8s of the ICD of CoF.

 

The more alacrity from talents the better for Gunnery.

 

Assault is another matter because the ICD is 6s which is exactly 4GCD, lag and casting gives some leeway but the more alacrity the more often you finish the 4th GCD miliseconds before the 6s ICD and need a 5th GCD to proc.

Edited March 28, 2014 by Gyronamics

[yoomazir]

In the past, Bioware aptempted to add new features to the mando/mercenary class by adding new mechanics or modifying certain skills, the problem is, those modifications were so bad that nobody uses them.

 

I am talking about things like:

-Mortar Salvo/Missile Salvo.

-Concussive Force/Afterburners.

 

You added those modifications with the thought it would benefit us, sadly, it was the contrary, my question is this:

Is it possible that you guys would reconsider retwinking previous modified skills/abilities in order to give us different gameplay mechanics to play with our class.

[AngelFluttershy]

Thanks for posting the questions cash, looks great!

[cashogy_reborn]

Thanks for posting the questions cash, looks great!

 

:cool:

[TheSupaCoopa]

I just got 3 words and they pertain to gunnery....FREE HiB please.

 

Edit: oh and I guess for all u mandos, something to balance the OH advantages of the merc

 

Making HiB free baseline for troopers would be nice.

[odawgg]

7 or maybe 7.5 seconds on CoF ICD would be nice

[ML_DoubleTap]

No it can't. Gunnery needs alacrity.

 

Gunnery in 2.7 has an 8s ICD on CoF which is 0.5s too long for 5GCD and 1.0s short of 6GCD

 

Alacrity won't change the ICD of 8s so you're at 6GCD to reproc. The 3% alacrity reduces the cast time so you get the stock 9s of 6GCD over closer to the 8s of the ICD of CoF.

 

The more alacrity from talents the better for Gunnery.

 

Assault is another matter because the ICD is 6s which is exactly 4GCD, lag and casting gives some leeway but the more alacrity the more often you finish the 4th GCD miliseconds before the 6s ICD and need a 5th GCD to proc.

 

Pretty sure that alacrity will screw up the CDs for HiB and DR though. It takes way too much to reduce the GCDs needed by one so you end up delaying instead. So, the actual time between those two increases rather than decreases with alacrity.

 

note: I could be wrong...but, I'm fairly sure that's the way it works out. I thought Pizza did some PTS testing on adding in a bunch of alacrity.

[Gyronamics]

Pretty sure that alacrity will screw up the CDs for HiB and DR though. It takes way too much to reduce the GCDs needed by one so you end up delaying instead. So, the actual time between those two increases rather than decreases with alacrity.

 

note: I could be wrong...but, I'm fairly sure that's the way it works out. I thought Pizza did some PTS testing on adding in a bunch of alacrity.

 

Alacrity stat is not worth it.

 

Free alacrity from talents is not a bad thing for Arsenal.

[TACeMossie]

Pretty sure that alacrity will screw up the CDs for HiB and DR though. It takes way too much to reduce the GCDs needed by one so you end up delaying instead. So, the actual time between those two increases rather than decreases with alacrity.

 

note: I could be wrong...but, I'm fairly sure that's the way it works out. I thought Pizza did some PTS testing on adding in a bunch of alacrity.

 

You only need enough alacrity to hit 10%, as this adds an extra GCD to the HiB and Demo Round cooldowns without effecting the time of them.

 

Then there is also that hybrid that is gonna be popping up soon where 12.5% alacrity is optimal as it uses Curtain-of-Fire-procced full autos to proc Ionic Accelerator, though that one misses out on the 3% alacrity from Armor Piercing Cell as well as cheap Grav Round/Charged Bolts

[DaftVaduhhh]

Are you thick?

A gentlemen never tells.

 

I fail to see how a knock back that can punt everyone in melee range 20 m is any different in its PvP implementation than a directed roll beyond some extra situational awareness. Combine that with an 'actual' disengage and you're looking at a legitimate balance issue.

 

You can argue successfully that the current combination of control is clunky (as has been done previously on these forums with some success) but when someone tells you that you're posting a weak argument because you want more with no downside, you should probably listen instead of further illustrating that your demands are pretty narrow sighted.

[Zoom_VI]

With the PvP question they're going to throw Concussion Charge and Concussive Round straight at you. With the change to Tech Override they're kinda going to have a point.

 

They're expecting you to use Stockstrike & HotL as Gunnery and Concussion Charge and HotL as Assault. If someone is still tailing you, you chuck down Electro Net and walk away. THEN you still have an instant Concussive Round on CD if you save Tech Override for it (a little trickier for Assault but there's the slow, and a stun).

 

You can argue a rebalance to allow for another disengage but the mechanics are there.

 

And a sniper has a true disengage with their roll, plus a knockback that roots, a instant ranged mezz, and a ranged root. Plus all of that is baseline for the class.