My respec costs 36550 credits now

[Dalak]

This is why BioWare put in companions...

[Sukbaliak]

This is why BioWare put in companions...

 

Companions don't amount to anything in a PvP and or Operations spec. I guess if you spec pure PvE, stay out of PvP and if you spec pure PvP stay out of Operations?

[alienstalker]

I don't see what your complaining about. 36,550 credits is not that outrageous.

 

Plus the player economy has not formed yet, so just give it time.

[Dalak]

Companions don't amount to anything in a PvP and or Operations spec. I guess if you spec pure PvE, stay out of PvP and if you spec pure PvP stay out of Operations?

 

You can level in PvE with Companion. You can heal in PvP and you can heal operations. Simples...

[deserttfoxx]

Your pet can compensate for your spec, i dont know waht the first pet is for the smuggler, but a lto fo the reason for bounty hunters having no problems leveling as healer is because they get mako first, then blizz, healer then tank it makes a difference.

 

But yeah the game should have dual spec, as respecs are expensive and most of the time people only have 2 specs.

[Doomsaga]

I would rather take a healer who has learned there character in and out and knows how to heal appropriately, than get someone that is healing simply because their character supports it.

 

 

For example, in that other MMO, I had a heroic where we needed a healer. Eventually a shaman comes in. He told us to hang on while he respeced. We never finished that heroic. He thought putting down his healing totem was how shamans healed.

 

Another example were priests shielding warriors (negated damage which in turn meant warriors couldn't build rage and therefore threat appropriately)

 

if your soloing your not learning how to heal a group so whats your point

[MaxiO]

I would rather take a healer who has learned there character in and out and knows how to heal appropriately, than get someone that is healing simply because their character supports it.

 

By learning their character in and out, do you mean 'how to press the 3 or 4 buttons that heal me'?

 

For example, in that other MMO, I had a heroic where we needed a healer. Eventually a shaman comes in. He told us to hang on while he respeced. We never finished that heroic. He thought putting down his healing totem was how shamans healed.

 

This is an argument against grouping with bad players, not against cheap respecs or DS.

 

Another example were [sic] priests shielding warriors (negated damage which in turn meant warriors couldn't build rage and therefore threat appropriately)

 

A warrior who had threat management issues in WoW because of a priest doing more than just spamming flash heal was a bad warrior indeed.

 

But I digress. You come across as just a little bit clueless about what makes a good healer. The most important trait in a healer is that they enjoy playing. With exorbitant respec costs, this trait can very quickly vanish from the list of a healer's merits.

 

Anyhoo, hasn't DS already been confirmed?

[TheHoodedFang]

Permanent choices are more fun.

 

^ This.

 

Dual spec is absolutely not needed, in fact it would prove to be detrimental to the design of the game. Bioware wants you to play alts, allowing you to spec two roles at any one time would significantly hamper that goal.

 

Respec costs raise each time for a reason, logic is fun.

Edited December 24, 2011 by TheHoodedFang

[Cutiecat]

I can't wait to see LF1M TANK all over the place but I can't tank because there's no dual spec in game and I am not about to sacrifice a PvP spec for PvE permanently or at great cost.

[trimw]

This is a ROLE playing game. Not a ROLES playing game. If you want to be a healer then make a healer. If you want to be strictly damage then make a strictly damage class. In my opinion you shouldn't be able to respecialize at all. Permanent choices are more fun.

 

Then why is PVP in the game? and why does one of the loading screens talk about how to respec?

[Morsexy]

This is a foregone conclusion that there will be dual spec, otherwise they would have designed trees with talents that serve two roles and likely would be over powered.

 

This system likely has decay and or a cap on the cost, it's tough to tell but for instance vanilla wow had 50 gold respecs max cost. With the way credits are, I think it's roughly that 1000 credits equals 1 gold in that game, just with far more ways to "easily" acquire gold. Who is surprised when that is near the ratio (minus 1 power)of copper to gold in WoW though totally irrelevant now.

 

That implies inflation but its a little too early to tell, meaning that 50-100k respec which seems insane now in 2 months becomes just a minor hindrance the way it should In a dual spec system.

[salamanderx]

If you want to be a healer roll a healer, if you dont want to be a healer roll something else.

 

What is so complicated here? Why do people want everything in one class??

[Virance]

I would rather take a healer who has learned there character in and out and knows how to heal appropriately, than get someone that is healing simply because their character supports it.

 

 

For example, in that other MMO, I had a heroic where we needed a healer. Eventually a shaman comes in. He told us to hang on while he respeced. We never finished that heroic. He thought putting down his healing totem was how shamans healed.

 

Another example were priests shielding warriors (negated damage which in turn meant warriors couldn't build rage and therefore threat appropriately)

 

...because anecdotal evidence of your own poor experiences totally validates your doctrine that SWTOR should not include popular accessibility features found in other leading MMORPG's (not just the big one).

 

Here's an anecdote. I tank, in every MMO... it's what I do. I love it. My wife heals, in every MMO. It's what she does. She loves it.

 

We are currently leveling a Jugg/Sorc duo - we are both DPS spec. We don't need to 'learn' to tank/heal - and when it comes to practicing the mechanics of the spec we can very easily do that in the content designed for it - literally everything before hard modes. I promise you neither of us will be a primary contributing factor to a wipe on sub-50 content.

 

We have not tanked/healed anything in this game yet. Nothing that actually called for a 'real' tank or healer though. Why? Because leveling/questing is the one time we actually get to use/enjoy our DPS specs. If we cannot switch back and forth for a reasonable price, we'll just level DPS and respec to heals/tank end-game.

 

The problem is this causes the exact thing you seem to want to prevent. We'll be level 50's looking to start tanking/healing with absolutely zero experience with the tanking/healing talent trees.

 

With dual spec, or at least reasonably priced respecs we would have been switching to our 'proper' roles for all group content and learning the specs as we level - exactly what you desire.

 

"healing" while questing doesn't teach you the spec... healing flashpoints and 4 person heroic quests and battlegrounds while leveling does. Making that an arduous, expensive process only decreases the amount of people who will bother 'learning' as they go.

[krisslanza]

I honestly dislike the idea of "duel" or "respecs". Just pick a spec and stick with it. I can understand you getting some free ones, so you can tweak it or something, but if you have to change your spec more often you change clothes... you probably are doing something wrong.

 

Sure, you might need a different spec for a different group, but just make an alt or something. It may not be as "fun", but it's got to be more fun then sinking all your creds into constant respecs right?

[DeathHenk]

Yes ppl permanent choices are fun. But im not dedicating my life here. I want to play my character just like you only that I want the freedom to help my friends healing when we are short on a healer as I am normally a dps.

And with a dual spec people are less forced to choose to stick with a spec. Heck with dual spec they are encouraged to test different talent trees, even if its from the same tree. With the current cost to respec people are less willing to test around with their specs because its expensive. But with dual spec they can have a spec they know that works and one they use to fill in the class role needed for the group or test new builds.

 

Keeping the respec cost penalty also worries me that people who want to do pvp and pve are set up with a hard choice. Because they are forced to play a certain spec unless they pay the penalty to respec. For example, tanks are not able to play pvp as efficiently as they should when they would have a different spec for pvp. It will lead to people making the focus on one side of the game, will it be dps, tank or healing. However all of these 3 class roles are needed, but when making a choice on spec, especially the tanks, you look if you can play how you want to play the game. A tank in pvp is a nono unless he takes pvp talents with the pve spec. Healing has the same story, but dps is punished much less in fulfilling their role as a damage dealer. The choice on dps is often easily made. And consequently it would be a disaster to starve of tanks and healers...

 

I sincerely hope bioware does implement dual spec into the game so we can be more versatile and helpful to others, because that's where it is about.

Edited December 24, 2011 by DeathHenk

[Aerrus]

The amount of whine on the general discussion forums are sky high. I feel for you spoon fed WoW babies. Please continue... As for the topic at hand, choose a damn spec, you know cost to respec goes up and its for a reason, for you to stick to one. You play this as if its wow and you are still in that mindset

[MaxiO]

It's rather sad that the majority of posts against cheap respecs/dual specs come from a section of the 'community' whose entire argument consists of insulting anyone whose opinion differs from their own.

 

I hope this isn't indicative of the kind of people who'll be playing TOR long-term.

 

And to the poor soul above me:

 

Even BW would admit that WoW is the the yardstick when it comes to MMO's. 'Borrowing' the features that WoW got right is sound business sense. But I'm sure they'll leave out dual-spec after reading all about your disdain for people who (THE HORROR!) played and enjoyed a game that doesn't make you foam at the mouth.

[ScartStorm]

As for the topic at hand, choose a damn spec, you know cost to respec goes up and its for a reason, for you to stick to one. You play this as if its wow and you are still in that mindset

 

You have only yourself to blame if you sit 30 minutes with three guys in a party and can't find a tank or a healer. Remember that, when it happens.

[MaxiO]

You have only yourself to blame if you sit 30 minutes with three guys in a party and can't find a tank or a healer. Remember that, when it happens.

 

Also, considering the inflexibility of his viewpoint, if the healer you spend 30 minutes looking for decides to quit your FP halfway through, it's probably not because he's a "noob healer".

 

But I suspect this may fall upon deaf ears (blind eyes? idk).

[Ravzar]

The amount of whine on the general discussion forums are sky high. I feel for you spoon fed WoW babies. Please continue... As for the topic at hand, choose a damn spec, you know cost to respec goes up and its for a reason, for you to stick to one. You play this as if its wow and you are still in that mindset

 

Having high respec costs makes some classes useless if they want to play differently in pvp than they do in pvp. For sentinels we now have to go watchman and can't use our burst spec if we want to do level 50 pve as well as pvp. Lower capped respec costs would make everyone happy.

[Colias]

I think the amount of people on here siding AGAINST dual spec / reasonably priced respec just shows you that there are a ton of people playing this game who come from outside of the MMO community, and have no idea what they are doing in a game like this.

 

Having absurd respec costs just discourages people from experimenting with the game. "Maybe I would tank better if I move my points from Talent A over to Talent B? Well, why bother testing it out though? It's just going to cost me 36k credits to try it, and then if it's bad, I'll have to respec back, which will then cost me 38k." Unless people on here are actually arguing FOR cookie cutter builds, so no one has to put any thought into their talent build at all (which is less diversity, you crazy diversity arguing people).

 

And dual spec isn't just for people who want to tank and heal on one character. Have you even thought about PvP? A lot of times, your optimal talent build for PvE environments and PvP environments are different.

 

Let's say I made the decision I want to play a tanky Guardian. But I want to PvP and PvE. Here are my options:

 

1.) Have a completely PvE oriented talent build, which isn't very good for PvP

2.) Have a completely PvP oriented talent build, which isn't very good for PvE

3.) Have a hybrid build, which isn't as good as it could be for PvE or PvP

4.) Reroll a new character just so I can have a good PvP build and good PvE build (this is an absurd option, and I can't believe people actually are suggesting replay the same class and story all the way back up to level 50 just to have a different spec. I would rather roll a brand new class if I had that kind of time)

 

And I'm not even saying I want to be able to flip back and forth between tanky or dps guardian! I want to be tanky either way - but I'm forced to shoot myself in the foot one way or the other in terms of optimal talent builds for PvP or PvE.

 

Hopefully, one of the other posts in this forum will be correct, and by time we get to max level, a cap of like 50k on respec cost will seem insignificant.

Edited December 24, 2011 by Colias

[trimw]

I think the amount of people on here siding AGAINST dual spec / reasonably priced respec just shows you that there are a ton of people playing this game who come from outside of the MMO community, and have no idea what they are doing in a game like this.

 

Having absurd respec costs just discourages people from experimenting with the game. "Maybe I would tank better if I move my points from Talent A over to Talent B? Well, why bother testing it out though? It's just going to cost me 36k credits to try it, and then if it's bad, I'll have to respec back, which will then cost me 38k." Unless people on here are actually arguing FOR cookie cutter builds, so no one has to put any thought into their talent build at all (which is less diversity, you crazy diversity arguing people).

 

And dual spec isn't just for people who want to tank and heal on one character. Have you even thought about PvP? A lot of times, your optimal talent build for PvE environments and PvP environments are different.

 

Let's say I made the decision I want to play a tanky Guardian. But I want to PvP and PvE. Here are my options:

 

1.) Have a completely PvE oriented talent build, which isn't very good for PvP

2.) Have a completely PvP oriented talent build, which isn't very good for PvE

3.) Have a hybrid build, which isn't as good as it could be for PvE or PvP

4.) Reroll a new character just so I can have a good PvP build and good PvE build (this is an absurd option)

 

And I'm not even saying I want to be able to flip back and forth between tanky or dps guardian! I want to be tanky either way - but I'm forced to shoot myself in the foot one way or the other in terms of optimal talent builds for PvP or PvE.

 

Hopefully, one of the other posts in this forum will be correct, and by time we get to max level, a cap of like 50k on respec cost will seem insignificant.

 

I keep making the same arguments you do, but everyone who is anti respec caps just ignores the point entirely and has a huge whinge. I want someone to come forward and try and make a valid argument against cheap respects from a PvP perspective, so far i've seen none.

 

We need to be able to respec often for PvP, its part of how it works. Constantly trying out slightly different builds and counters. Its what makes mmo pvp fun. If you don't allow us to do that then EVERYONE WILL HAVE THE EXACT SAME BUILD because they will be to scared to respec.

[tyronechicken]

I'm pretty sure they don't want to copy wow, but another option to dualspec or something similar would be cool

[Boomsyn]

i dont need dual spec, but i also dont need it to cost 98800 credits at level 50 to respec! i mean... really? a hundred thousand?!

[RSCNyx]

Okay, here's the thing.

 

Let's say that you're about to do a TOR raid. You have 10 people gathered, ready to zerg the hell out of some evil Sith/Jedi guy weilding fifty quad-bladed lightsabers, he's tough as balls, and he wants to kill you.

 

Then, BOTH a tank and a healer say they have to go due to them soiling theirselves. You're down two essential classes.

 

Without a duel-spec system, the night could very well be over if no one else can step into that role. No one kills anything, no one wins anything, you just...do it another night, hopefully.

 

With a duel-spec system, one of the DPS could be like, "Yo, I can tank this guy" and another can be, "I have a healing offspec!", switch, and then you're already good to go! You just gotta replace two DPS which are...everywhere.

 

It's a matter of convienence. It's not convienent having no price cap on respecs, because it WILL get to a point where you simply just won't be able to afford it if someone needs you to change.

 

Also a matter of convienence, being able to summon party members. That'd be nice.

Edited December 24, 2011 by RSCNyx