Comparing healers in an operation

[drummerinthesun]

I'd imagine that it's relatively easy to compare Merc/Operative healing combos using parsec/torparse utilities, but I find it much harder to determine if a sorc healer is pulling their weight due to the heavy use of static barrier. Is there a way to get an hps out of that based on how many times they use it? I know it prevents more damage than one of their heals, and it should be 100% effective hps since they don't usually bubble people that are at 100% health. I admit to being a raid leader with minimal healing experience other than leveling. I understand all the tanking and most of the usual dps specs in much greater detail. Can anyone lend a hand?

[Darth_Dreselus]

AFAIK:

 

Bubble = 3.27 * [0.14(WP) + 0.17(FP) + 0.17(P)] + 0.164(7085)

or

(3.27*HealingBonus)+(0.164*7085)

 

Should be around 7k in BiS gear

 

Check their logs, mainly for tanks as their bubbles will mostly be effective, the bubble on the Sorc is mostly to slowly regenerate health from Consumption and it is hard to say if a bubble on DPS will be effective. You can also ask the cohealer on just how taxed they felt.

 

It is very hard to compare healers though, especially if they are given assignments (tank and raid healer).

[theBEARthatCARES]

Ask the other healer what they think, should be easy to tell for them.

[slafko]

Ask the tanks how many mini heart-attacks they've had during the fight.

[Vid-szhite]

Ask the tanks how many mini heart-attacks they've had during the fight.

 

I'm a Jugg tank, so I rarely have mini-heart attacks. I have so many anti-heart-attack buttons to press. Instead, I measure a healer by how often I have to pop a cooldown.

 

"Oh looks like I have to pop a cooldown to let the healer catch up. Well, that's what they're there for." <The healers seem typical.>

 

"Oh **** I have no more cooldowns!! Heal please!" <The healers are overworked or inexperienced>

 

"I haven't used my cooldowns in a while. The healers must be really good!" <I'll commend the healers verbally.>

[Hockaday]

I generally put Sorc bubble around 6.5k. That being said, with or without the bubble, a sorc's hps should be able to compete with other healers; from what I've been reading.

[Darth_Dreselus]

I generally put Sorc bubble around 6.5k. That being said, with or without the bubble, a sorc's hps should be able to compete with other healers; from what I've been reading.

 

I really wish there was a way to plug the value of your bonus healing to parsers. I just look at times activated and multiply by that number. It can generally be assumed to be effective but I am using it to get the hot on myself which may mean it wasn't popped. Still it's something.

 

Honestly Mando's and Scoundrels should have more eHPS than Sages when looking at parser numbers which exclude Armour, but about the same when included. At least that is what I am seeing in NM DF runs with a Sco.

Edited March 30, 2014 by Darth_Dreselus

[Orderken]

I generally put Sorc bubble around 6.5k. That being said, with or without the bubble, a sorc's hps should be able to compete with other healers; from what I've been reading.

 

A couple of thoughts.

 

First, post-2.6, no Sorcerer or Operative can compete with a talented Mercenary. Kolto Shell is OP.

 

Second, on most fights, 15-25% of a talented Sorcerer's EHPS will come from Static Barrier. If a meter shows a Sorcerer tied with the other healer, in fact the Sorcerer has more EHPS by a significant margin.

[Orderken]

Bubble = 3.27 * [0.14(WP) + 0.17(FP) + 0.17(P)] + 0.164(7085)

or

(3.27*HealingBonus)+(0.164*7085)

 

Should be around 7k in BiS gear

 

That's about right, and fine for the purposes of this thread. In BIS 78s for a Sorcerer (i.e., with zero Critical from gear), Static Barrier absorbs about 6750 before relic procs.

 

The formula for the amount that can be absorbed by a Static Barrier is:

(3.27 * Bonus Healing + 0.164 * 11180) * (1 + x * 0.05), where x is the number of skill points allocated to Lightning Barrier|Telekinetic Defense. The figure 11180 in the formula is for a level 55 healer.

 

A Sorcerer healer should have 2 points in this skill, increasing the amount absorbed by Static Barrier by 10%.

Edited April 23, 2014 by Orderken

[Vagosei]

I'd imagine that it's relatively easy to compare Merc/Operative healing combos using parsec/torparse utilities, but I find it much harder to determine if a sorc healer is pulling their weight due to the heavy use of static barrier. Is there a way to get an hps out of that based on how many times they use it? I know it prevents more damage than one of their heals, and it should be 100% effective hps since they don't usually bubble people that are at 100% health. I admit to being a raid leader with minimal healing experience other than leveling. I understand all the tanking and most of the usual dps specs in much greater detail. Can anyone lend a hand?

 

Considering myself as a good sorc healer I only use the bubble under 10k health myself or just at the start and only on the tanks. Parses are only good for personal use and to make rotation better. I can pull up to 4k HPS no problem but can't sustain it. If any class healer can maintain even 2.8k hps or higher. Positioning of dps and tanks in a raid can make or break the healer's. Combo of 2 or more different types of healer are almost necessary with the 16 man's. But to judge any healer during an operation is flat out ludicrous. Due to each type of healer's that have their strong points and weaknesses. The guilds that run together with the same groups will always perform better as a raid group. And can't leave the tanks out...if they do their Job well...All healer's HPS will be low...which is what you want anyway. Pulling their weight is a subject to the the whole raid group..not just one.

[mikebevo]

I'm a healer, the only thing I use to judge myself is if we win, then I did my job. If we wipe, I didn't do my job. I don't care what anyone else did, I could have done a better job or we would have won is my motto.

 

Parse for healers is a joke. I can throw out some absurb numbers in HPS. What does that mean? Nothing. When I look at logs from NiM Operations (only time I really look at them) I look at HPS, eHPS, Deaths, my dps and damage received. I usually compare these numbers to other healers I know and to other ones in the raid. Each fight is different so I don't get hung up on getting outhealed by a sage or commando in one or two fights, because I know in one of the upcoming fights where we are more spread out or moving I will pull higher numbers on my sawbones.

 

Even though I blame myself for every wipe, jacklking is completely correct. Healer is only as good as their group. Groups that stand in fire, don’t use defensive cooldowns, don’t cleanse themselves when they have the ability, ignore mechanics, and don’t use aggro dumps can make any healer look bad depending on the content.

[DarthSpekulatius]

Considering myself as a good sorc healer I only use the bubble under 10k health myself or just at the start and only on the tanks. Parses are only good for personal use and to make rotation better. I can pull up to 4k HPS no problem but can't sustain it. If any class healer can maintain even 2.8k hps or higher. Positioning of dps and tanks in a raid can make or break the healer's. Combo of 2 or more different types of healer are almost necessary with the 16 man's. But to judge any healer during an operation is flat out ludicrous. Due to each type of healer's that have their strong points and weaknesses. The guilds that run together with the same groups will always perform better as a raid group. And can't leave the tanks out...if they do their Job well...All healer's HPS will be low...which is what you want anyway. Pulling their weight is a subject to the the whole raid group..not just one.

just to give another example of why EHPS and especially HPS cannot be trusted to judge a Healer

I did this a while back just for the Giggles

of course my co-healer a sage would have been much better suited for doing the raid heal and I've left him with the majority of the Tank heal making it much more work for him then if I had played seriously.

 

also I did this with my mando

and even though the EHPS are lower by a huge margin my Co-healer actually had a lot less to do because I healed when needed and did DPS when there was only small maintenance necessary instead of soaking up all the splash damage to boost EHPS

 

I don't agree on how you use the Bubble though, the tanks should get one on CD it's incredibly effective

for example against Tyrans I always Bubble the active tank and those with a DOT, if I do that the Bubble can easily be 25% of my EHPS (I'm rarely playing Sage though)

 

a better way to judge healers is the question did someone die without him or someone else taking to much unnecessary Damage and how well they manage their Resource while concentrating on healing alone (without throwing offdps).

[Vagosei]

just to give another example of why EHPS and especially HPS cannot be trusted to judge a Healer

I did this a while back just for the Giggles

of course my co-healer a sage would have been much better suited for doing the raid heal and I've left him with the majority of the Tank heal making it much more work for him then if I had played seriously.

 

also I did this with my mando

and even though the EHPS are lower by a huge margin my Co-healer actually had a lot less to do because I healed when needed and did DPS when there was only small maintenance necessary instead of soaking up all the splash damage to boost EHPS

 

I don't agree on how you use the Bubble though, the tanks should get one on CD it's incredibly effective

for example against Tyrans I always Bubble the active tank and those with a DOT, if I do that the Bubble can easily be 25% of my EHPS (I'm rarely playing Sage though)

 

a better way to judge healers is the question did someone die without him or someone else taking to much unnecessary Damage and how well they manage their Resource while concentrating on healing alone (without throwing offdps).

 

All boss fights require different strategies...my whole point is to not use HPS during a operation only on a dummy for personal rotation only. I will bubble a tank the entire time if necessary though. Too many will try to use Hps during a raid..As for why I Have no idea why. I don't play much anymore but I do get on and read the forum once in a while...Sometimes I just scratch my head.But the way I look at it..if I can help someone with information then why not.

Edited April 24, 2014 by Vagosei

[Kadjunga]

Easiest way is just to talk to the other healer (healers) and see what they think. Since they have already done this a few times before, then it's very easy to notice if you are under a lot more strain to keep everyone alive. That is... assuming that not a lot more stupid is being done at that attempt.

 

hps, ehps, absorbed... they mean jack **** if you still wipe. You can not use those to compare healers ever. Those stats are there only for ePeen stroking.

Edited April 26, 2014 by Kadjunga

[atschai]

There is this handy Spreadsheet by Mae to calculate HPS done by Force Armor.

For me, it accounts for about 15%-25% of my EHPS. If you add 20% to a sage/sorcs EHPS you are about right.

[JouerTue]

while i mainly use a commando, i know sage healing in HM ops.

 

i think as everything else it's just a matter of knowing the fight..bubbling just after a big hit can be recorded eHPS ,but is not as effective as bubbling before, since you risk to fall behind or be forced to an unsustained burst.

 

i think about the barrier as the other HoTs..and i knew it absorbed about 8k even without the math..

 

as in a lot of things virtue stays in mid :-)

[Letsjet]

Does the Op's cloaking screen and revive companion battle rez make up for being being a Merc but ahead of a Sorc in HM Ops?

[Maldorans]

Healers in my opinion are pretty balanced. They each offer great, but different, utility and in the end it comes down to who's pressing the buttons behind the screen.

 

I play an OP, my raid group wouldn't leave without me. The other is a Sorc. We only do 8man HM as we don't have bigger numbers, but we've completed 5/5 DF and 4/5 DP HM

[WooduckAUS]

I normally mando heal with a scoundrel healer beside me. For a reference point we would both average around 4k-4.2k ehps on nefra in nim. This has been fairly consistent. If i drop below 4k, then my partners heals will be slightly higher to compensate. seems that the incoming damage for that fight requires around 8-8.5k ehps.

 

For ***** and giggles, i've been healing on my sage of late for something different. Same fight, same group, same scoundrel healer beside me.

 

Scoundrel ended the fight with 3.5k ehps and i with 3.1 ehps on my sage. Pretty sure the incoming damage didn't drop that significantly, i assume the variance was simply from my sages bubble and the 100% effectiveness of it. My guess in this fight, based on previous healing numbers, my bubble would have allowed for at least 1k ehps maybe more given the scoundrels heals were a lot lower than the 4k effective state previously. Had it counted in parsec, we may have seen my sage as high as 4.5k ehps.....

 

On another note, running parsec while healing pvp, i noticed around a 20% difference between the in game heal total at the end of the match and the parsec info. I assume this is from the bubble not counting in parsec either....

 

I think you can compare ehps numbers between healers in the op they are currently running but have to keep in mind the class differences. Some fights are better suited to certain healers. I know if i'm working my *** off and the other healer has a lower than usual ehps number, then i'll be sending him a whisper to pick his game up. At the end of the day, as long as you clear the boss and no one dies, it was a good pull. If you keep on wiping, then parsec is an effective tool to isolate where the problem maybe.... heals, dps, tanks.....

[Metalenceladus]

A couple of thoughts.

 

First, post-2.6, no Sorcerer or Operative can compete with a talented Mercenary. Kolto Shell is OP.

 

Second, on most fights, 15-25% of a talented Sorcerer's EHPS will come from Static Barrier. If a meter shows a Sorcerer tied with the other healer, in fact the Sorcerer has more EHPS by a significant margin.

 

I have to agree. I run one of each healing class, and my Mercenary out heals them all. Not only is Kolto Shell OP, but Kolto Missile combined with supercharged gas gives out raid wide armor buff and residual HOT's that hit the entire population in the puddle. 16 man OPS should have at least 1 Merc healer, though 2 is epic.

[theblaznee]

I have healed as every type and with every type.. The only measure I have is if I feel relaxed with the other healer.. I have healed with bad healers, and even simple fights can get unnecessarily hard to heal with a bad healer.. Another annoying thing when playing with a bad healer, is that they NEVER seem to cleanse stuff that can be cleansed.

 

Healing with a Sage is fine, as long as they know how to play the class properly (as with any class).. I have healed with number ***** Sages, and they tend to very quickly struggle with force and me having to heal them up after they stand there trying to NS themselves up again.. All healers can shoot themselves in the foot with poor energy management, but Sages do take the biggest hit imo..

[Osxoba]

I have healed as every type and with every type.. The only measure I have is if I feel relaxed with the other healer.. I have healed with bad healers, and even simple fights can get unnecessarily hard to heal with a bad healer.. Another annoying thing when playing with a bad healer, is that they NEVER seem to cleanse stuff that can be cleansed.

 

Healing with a Sage is fine, as long as they know how to play the class properly (as with any class).. I have healed with number ***** Sages, and they tend to very quickly struggle with force and me having to heal them up after they stand there trying to NS themselves up again.. All healers can shoot themselves in the foot with poor energy management, but Sages do take the biggest hit imo..

 

Then that sage needs to learn to play their class, because no sage should struggle with force issues while healing.