Commando Changes Coming in 2.7

[cs_zoltan]

Yeah its going to come down to play style and opinion for sure. And thats a great thing. The game would be boring if everyone played 1 spec the same way. While Energy Shield interrupt immunity has a STUPID long cooldown, 15 seconds of burst dmg in say a rated arena could be all the difference.

 

I'm not really going to de-rail this thread, but I think assault needs things more like its VG/PT counterparts. Like Stockstrike proc'ing plasma cell, and allowing it to reset the cooldown of railshot as well. Things like that would not only be fair (since its a shared tree), but give an alternative way to get your procs and damage out, without having to cast (on a spec that is SUPPOSED to be mobile).

 

I also wouldn't mind losing that 2% alacrity box in the right tree in favor of the 8% stock strike damage (that VG and PT has) as well, if they were to make the above change.

 

I hate to be the one again, but Reactive Shield is only 12sec for Mandos.

Also I wouldn't really like to get bonuses for Stock Strike (not to mention losing the 2% alacrity for my healer), they shouldn't encourage melee play with a ranged class. Melee escape ability like with Gunnery? Sure! Melee ability for purely dps? Pls don't.

[Aaoogaa]

I posted this in the merc thread, but figured it's worth bringing up here:

 

I like most of the changes, but I'm actually not sure what I think about the change to Curtain of Fire. I certainly welcome a change from the original 45% (if it ever actually was that, many times it feels like a much lower chance), but I'm not sure about 100%. Doesn't that remove all RNG from the spec?

 

If my timing is correct wouldn't that reduce the entire rotation to nothing more than the following?

GR -> FA -> DR -> GR -> FA -> HIB -> GR -> FA -> GR -> return to beginning

 

I'd have to try it tomorrow when PTS launches, but it seems like this might make the already super-simple commando rotation even simpler. It feels like the complete lack of RNG might make the spec too boring.

 

No, there is still the CoF cooldown so it will not proc EVERY GR. If you want more RNG then only put two points in that way you can be happy and those of us that think it's a good change will put in 3 points. This change allows our damage to be a little more front loaded and reliable with smaller crit hits from FA...trading a little burst for more reliable front loaded damage. Which is exactly what the class needs in PVP. I still think GR and CB should be instants leaving FA to be our only main ability that requires standing still to fire, but at least we are starting to see positive changes that will actually help the class rather than more gimmicks. Less grav round spam required to get a proc...everyone should be for this. Now lets just hope they don't screw up the PTR build again and base our numbers on a broken mechanic and then nerf it when it goes live effectively double nerfing us again.

[Aaoogaa]

1.2 truly was the darkest day in Commando/Merc history....

It was the darkest day in this games history. Caused many large guilds and some of the best players to leave and never look back. Edited February 27, 2014 by Aaoogaa

[LtBombshell]

So wait- does Special Munitions now ONLY reduce the cost of HiB by 3/6/9 or do we get that in addition to the already existent reducing the casting cost of GR by 3?

[Gyronamics]

So wait- does Special Munitions now ONLY reduce the cost of HiB by 3/6/9 or do we get that in addition to the already existent reducing the casting cost of GR by 3?

 

Every part of SM is the same except the HIB cost.

[MillionsKNives]

No, there is still the CoF cooldown so it will not proc EVERY GR.

 

Where did I say that it did? In fact that entire rotation is built around the CoF cooldown.

 

If you want more RNG then only put two points in that way you can be happy and those of us that think it's a good change will put in 3 points.

 

Let's try to be constructive here.

 

This change allows our damage to be a little more front loaded and reliable with smaller crit hits from FA...trading a little burst for more reliable front loaded damage. Which is exactly what the class needs in PVP. I still think GR and CB should be instants leaving FA to be our only main ability that requires standing still to fire, but at least we are starting to see positive changes that will actually help the class rather than more gimmicks.

 

I'd like to see something like this. Instant GR and CB would be a great change, but unfortunately I don't ever see that happening.

 

Less grav round spam required to get a proc...everyone should be for this.

 

No matter their stance on RNG for this spec, I'm sure most can agree that as it stands it procs far too infrequently, and causes too many issues.

Edited February 27, 2014 by MillionsKNives

[BoskiCesiu]

How about some interrupt protection for Commando healers?

 

I see that devs are blind and deaf to the main problem commando.

 

The time comes that you will not see any commando with PVP combat medic

[Gyronamics]

I see that devs are blind and deaf to the main problem commando.

 

The time comes that you will not see any commando with PVP combat medic

 

How interesting.

 

I'm seeing increasing numbers of commando/merc healers.

 

Will see even more with the nerf on scoundrel/operative free spam heals.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Where did I say that it did? In fact that entire rotation is built around the CoF cooldown.

 

You did it wrong though...

 

The ICD is 8sec you only have two globals between each FA,

GR -> FA -> DR -> GR -> FA -> HIB -> GR -> FA -> GR -> return to beginning

 

FA takes ~3s the two globals after put you at 6...you can't proc it again that fast.

[MillionsKNives]

You did it wrong though...

 

The ICD is 8sec you only have two globals between each FA,

GR -> FA -> DR -> GR -> FA -> HIB -> GR -> FA -> GR -> return to beginning

 

FA takes ~3s the two globals after put you at 6...you can't proc it again that fast.

 

That probably had something to do with Eric posting the change to the cooldown 2 hours after my post. Just a guess.

[stockwizzle]

You did it wrong though...

 

The ICD is 8sec you only have two globals between each FA,

GR -> FA -> DR -> GR -> FA -> HIB -> GR -> FA -> GR -> return to beginning

 

FA takes ~3s the two globals after put you at 6...you can't proc it again that fast.

 

do you believe that will be the highest burst to be able to get say a healer down as fast as possible or would it be something different?

[ML_DoubleTap]

That probably had something to do with Eric posting the change to the cooldown 2 hours after my post. Just a guess.

 

Fair enough, didn't know when the original quote was from. It's odd that you reiterated that it was built around CoF though without mentioning it was wrong based on new info

[ArchangelLBC]

Fair enough, didn't know when the original quote was from. It's odd that you reiterated that it was built around CoF though without mentioning it was wrong based on new info

 

It's still built around CoF. The number one priority is to proc CoF ASAP while fitting everything in between. That bit hasn't changed. We just have what amounts to two more GCDs to fit in, which pleases me quite a bit.

 

Probably start with

 

GR > DR > EN > RP+PG > FA > GR > FA > GR > HiB > DR > GR > FA

 

That's a rough attempt at an opener. I think it still needs to be played with. We could probably afford getting out the first HiB earlier, not entirely sure. Simply interchanging the HiB above with RP+PG, putting HiB in that last GR and effectively delaying the following FA is possible, but I just don't know.

 

There are several constraints to the rotation, but they will be very much based on FA. To borrow what KBN has done several times, particularly shadow tanking and hybrid slinger, or Odawgg with Pyro. So in the middle of a fight things will look like

 

GR (Proccing CoF) > GCD1 > GCD2 > GCD3 > GCD4 > GCD5 > GR (proccing CoF)

 

Now of course two of those GCDs will belong to FA, so you must use it no later than GCD4. Beyond that, you can place it pretty much where you want it. We will also continue to want to use DR and HiB as close to on CD as possible, especially now that HiB is going to be ammo neutral. Properly floating FA in those 4 GCDs is going to be necessary since we're essentially looking at a 6 GCD rotation, which lasts 9 seconds, meanwhile DR and HiB have 15s cooldowns. Ultimately I think that means we're going to have decisions to make at points in our rotation about what to delay when.

 

For example if you use DR > HiB for GCDs 1 and 2, then the earliest you can use DR again is in GCD 5 of the next rotation. So then you either use HiB on CD, or use GR to proc CoF ASAP and then use HiB in GCD1 of the following rotation. For that reason alone we may want to deliberately separate HiB and DR in PVE rotations (I understand of course that in PVP you want them together for the high burst).

 

For example. Let's say again that we put DR in GCD1. It's next use is in GCD5 of the following rotation. It's next use is in GCD3 of the following rotation and then it cycles back to GCD1 the rotation after next. As we saw above we'll want to separate DR and HiB. I suggest putting the first HiB in GCD3, and then it basically will follow in the same cycle as above.

 

So we'd have GR (proc) > DR > GCD2 > HiB > FA > GR (proc) > GCD1 > GCD2 > GCD3 > GCD4 > DR > GR (proc) > HiB > GCD2 > GCD3 > GCD4 > GCD5 > GR > FA > DR > GCD4 > HiB > GR (Restarts the whole cycle).

 

So with that information we're going to want to plan our opening accordingly so as to begin as we mean to go on.

 

Anyway I've spent enough time on this for one post, but that's how we'll want the rotation to work out. Everything else is about making a max DPS opener, and making sure we can keep the rotation Ammo neutral.

[ML_DoubleTap]

I don't think the priorities are gonna change much, there just won't be as much fishing. You're still going to give priority to DR and HiB I think, even if it means delaying FA.

 

I'm thinking the opener more along the lines of,

GR>DR>HiB>FA>EN>GR>FA>PG>GR>DR>HiB>GR>FA

 

Might need another GCD in there before DR to account for alacrity.

[ML_DoubleTap]

do you believe that will be the highest burst to be able to get say a healer down as fast as possible or would it be something different?

 

With all cooldowns available I think you'd want to do GR>DR>HiB>FA>EN>GR>FA

[odawgg]

I don't think the priorities are gonna change much, there just won't be as much fishing. You're still going to give priority to DR and HiB I think, even if it means delaying FA.

 

Not so sure about that, I mean we'll see when we get to try, but I think they will be prioritized over FA but not over procing CoF.

 

Edit: I think it will become more of a set rotation like Pyro is

Edited March 1, 2014 by odawgg

[Brewkrew]

Only 6pts, but I dont think Assault needs that interrupt immunity as much as Gunny does. Also you can reconfigure the standard Gunny spec easily enough to accept the 6pt 'tax'.

 

 

What are you thinking of giving up to get this out of curiosity?

[cashogy_reborn]

What are you thinking of giving up to get this out of curiosity?

 

Losing both points of 'Decoy' (the absorb isnt all that helpful outside of a very isolated 1v1), and only taking 1 point in Charged Barrier

[ML_DoubleTap]

Not so sure about that, I mean we'll see when we get to try, but I think they will be prioritized over FA but not over procing CoF.

 

This is what I've been coming up with. It seems to line up well to proc CoF while keeping DR/HiB on cooldown, but it can cause you to wait a couple GCDs to actually cast FA if DR/HiB are up.

 

You can get a situation like this:

 

GR(CoF)->FA->GCD->GCD->GCD->GR(CoF)->DR->HiB->FA->GCD->GR(CoF)->FA

 

DR and HiB will come off cooldown right after a CoF proc and I'm thinking it will be better to use them before FA because you'll still get the same amount of FA, they'll just be closer together at times. As long as you proc CoF on cooldown you should be able to catch up and ultimately have the same amount of FA. If you push back HiB and DR you'll end up without the optimal amount.

 

...man I want to get on and try it!

[Brewkrew]

Losing both points of 'Decoy' (the absorb isnt all that helpful outside of a very isolated 1v1), and only taking 1 point in Charged Barrier

 

Thanks. Makes sense.

[Petvin]

Anyone else feeling that the increase to the COF proc cd with 2 sec is a bit needless? Edited March 1, 2014 by Petvin

[ArchangelLBC]

This is what I've been coming up with. It seems to line up well to proc CoF while keeping DR/HiB on cooldown, but it can cause you to wait a couple GCDs to actually cast FA if DR/HiB are up.

 

You can get a situation like this:

 

GR(CoF)->FA->GCD->GCD->GCD->GR(CoF)->DR->HiB->FA->GCD->GR(CoF)->FA

 

DR and HiB will come off cooldown right after a CoF proc and I'm thinking it will be better to use them before FA because you'll still get the same amount of FA, they'll just be closer together at times. As long as you proc CoF on cooldown you should be able to catch up and ultimately have the same amount of FA. If you push back HiB and DR you'll end up without the optimal amount.

 

...man I want to get on and try it!

 

If you use DR and HiB back to back, especially in the first two GCDs, then on the next time they come off cooldown you're going to be forced to either delay HiB or delay the CoF proc.

 

If you delay HiB you are essentially now in the rotation I recommended above because DR and HiB will now be separated by one GCD, and will be able to rotate through GCDs 1, 3, and 5 of the 6 GCD cycle. If you delay CoF then you extend the essential cooldown of FA to 10.5 seconds. As you say the new first priority is to proc CoF as close to on CD as you can (which effectively means every 6 GCDs). So just accept it from the beginning and separate them in the opening. Delaying HiB by 1 GCD in the opening (with the option of giving the first one 4 stacks of charged barrel instead of 2), will not make a big difference in the end. After that you'll always be able to proc CoF as close to on cooldown as possible, use DR and HiB exactly on cooldown.

 

One interesting thought: With TO, GR will grant the proc at the beginning of a GCD rather than at the beginning. That means if you use it in the opening you could conceivably go:

 

TO+GR (proc) > DR > HiB > FA > GR (proc).

 

But that just leads to delaying it at a later time /shrug.

[odawgg]

This is what I've been coming up with. It seems to line up well to proc CoF while keeping DR/HiB on cooldown, but it can cause you to wait a couple GCDs to actually cast FA if DR/HiB are up.

 

You can get a situation like this:

 

GR(CoF)->FA->GCD->GCD->GCD->GR(CoF)->DR->HiB->FA->GCD->GR(CoF)->FA

 

DR and HiB will come off cooldown right after a CoF proc and I'm thinking it will be better to use them before FA because you'll still get the same amount of FA, they'll just be closer together at times. As long as you proc CoF on cooldown you should be able to catch up and ultimately have the same amount of FA. If you push back HiB and DR you'll end up without the optimal amount.

 

...man I want to get on and try it!

 

Yeah it will pretty much be this rinse and repeat, kinda boring but I'm excited too haha. I think some alacrity is going to be good (just a thought) maybe even as many as 3 enhancements...leaving 4 for acc and 3 for surge...bringing that 6th GCD closer to 8s.

[OHARRIIS]

Loving the Gunnery changes for FA and the ability to spec into the shield immunity now but it feels as if commando Gunnery is still going to have the same age old problems since launch which is the "shut-down" or "lock-down" problems we run into as a "front-line caster class". I use the terminology loosely because frankly commando is a bit of a mixed bag to what our specific role is.

 

 

Some tweaks and possible additions that I believe would help a lot (PS these are my opinions so if you disagree strongly or feel like having a **** fit over it either keep it to yourself or reply respectfully).

 

-Grav Round/Charged Bolts be redesigned into a cast down attack rather than a wind up attack (a perfect example being force lightning) that still has the same cast time and cost. The redesign would give us more uptime on targets alowing us to combat close range players despite interruption because we'd be doing damage until the point of interruption (PVP/PVE) *More PVP oriented change*

 

-Possibly a passive dot called "Gravity warp" or "Splinter Rounds" that gives us uptime on targets when were being interrupted, stunned or forced to run away. (More for PVE to have uptime on the boss while we are constantly stunned or force to move, prefect example being Grob'thok during pipe smash phase in HM DF, also would help combat stealth classes as long as the dot is uncleasable by stealth classes) *Gunnery specific change only*

 

 

-A disengage for keeping distance between us and classes that have instant leaps, force sprint, stealth, yanks and rolls to get to us (ie. melee). I don't know why this wasn't already put into the game at launch there really is no excuse for it. Hold the line does not count towards this mainly out of the fact we can be stunned the second we pop the cool-down and try to run away, negating the entire purpose of it. (Not saying it always happens but a smart player would take the opportunity of it to prevent a commando from escaping)

 

 

Cons to the tweaks that I can think of (feel free to chime in on cons not trying to make the class OP, trying to bring it more in line with other classes):

 

- Tech Override will be shifted to a mainly defensive role ie. instant two self heal casts with the one exception being plasma grenade for dps.

 

 

- The added dot might be a little dps heavy but frankly given the state or marauder and sniper dps I seriously doubt it considering gunnery still has to worry about its artificial ceiling ammo management system. The class is also seems leaps behind in dps in parsing. (Gunnery spec specifically but parses tend to be close enough to real bosses that you can get a general idea where the class' dps is and there is no real reason for why a class should be parsing much lower than other classes on a stationary target doing no damage and not interrupting rotation)

 

*Note* - My opinion on the tweaks may differ once 2.7 changes actually make it live but as it stands commando dps is still somewhat behind from my POV.

[Gyronamics]

-Possibly a passive dot called "Gravity warp" or "Splinter Rounds" that gives us uptime on targets when were being interrupted, stunned or forced to run away. (More for PVE to have uptime on the boss while we are constantly stunned or force to move, prefect example being Grob'thok during pipe smash phase in HM DF, also would help combat stealth classes as long as the dot is uncleasable by stealth classes) *Gunnery specific change only*

 

*Note* - My opinion on the tweaks may differ once 2.7 changes actually make it live but as it stands commando dps is still somewhat behind from my POV.

 

Yellow : Use Hold The Line which Gunnery gets an extra long version of.

 

Red : behind what? Commando has always since game release been competitive at PVE DPS. Assault is capable of topping the meter vs any other class while Gunnery is still not the worst thing you could bring to a raid especially since it gives the necessary armour debuff that Assault (and many other classes) need to do their best.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Gyronamics