Commando Changes Coming in 2.7

[ML_DoubleTap]

Daharel already has a hybrid parse that is higher than his best gunnery parse on The Ebon Hawk boards. Same hybrid, it's just that in 2.7 the RNG will be removed and thus the ammo eased tremendously.

 

Yeah, but his hybrid was quite a bit different. He went 33 in Assault for the reduction in Charged Bolts and the lowered cooldown on Vent Heat. He didn't even take Grav Round so he didn't have the more expensive version of that to contend with. Or is the one you're talking about not posted?

[KeyboardNinja]

Yeah, but his hybrid was quite a bit different. He went 33 in Assault for the reduction in Charged Bolts and the lowered cooldown on Vent Heat. He didn't even take Grav Round so he didn't have the more expensive version of that to contend with. Or is the one you're talking about not posted?

 

Oh, good point. I think I didn't post the one he did in the CoF hybrid spec. He has a really old parse that he did in it before assault was buffed and before, uh, gear. But that doesn't count.

[Gyronamics]

Yeah, but his hybrid was quite a bit different. He went 33 in Assault for the reduction in Charged Bolts and the lowered cooldown on Vent Heat. He didn't even take Grav Round so he didn't have the more expensive version of that to contend with. Or is the one you're talking about not posted?

 

CoF and Ionic Accelerator

[cashogy_reborn]

I posted in the Merc thread already, but will post here as well. I am happy with these changes, it appears the devs have actually listened to the feedback we have been giving them.

 

I look forward to testing these changes out.

[stockwizzle]

Well, the hybrid spec is now stupid easy viable, 5k dps here we come.

 

hmmm this spec you have here wont work you have picked up two cylinder specific talents so unless your going to b wasting gcds stance dancing this is a waste of time

[Helmholtzz]

Pipe down people. We will all test out the hybrid and see whether its ammo viable or not. First impression says it might not be viable as you lose the extra ammo regen when you switch to plasma cell.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Pipe down people. We will all test out the hybrid and see whether its ammo viable or not. First impression says it might not be viable as you lose the extra ammo regen when you switch to plasma cell.

 

Just discussing, I don't think anyone is piped up, so no piping down necessary

[cashogy_reborn]

My only knee-jerk concern is that 100% proc chance on CoF. Removing RNG completely is a huge win, but I am just really unsure of how this is going to affect PvE damage output. I would have rather seen something like what Jugg/Guardian got to solve their RNG problems, something that required stacking a couple of Grav Rounds to get CoF to proc.

 

This change basically gives FA a guaranteed 6s cooldown. We'll see how testing goes, but I have a feeling this is going to get a second look.

[ML_DoubleTap]

My only knee-jerk concern is that 100% proc chance on CoF. Removing RNG completely is a huge win, but I am just really unsure of how this is going to affect PvE damage output. I would have rather seen something like what Jugg/Guardian got to solve their RNG problems, something that required stacking a couple of Grav Rounds to get CoF to proc.

 

This change basically gives FA a guaranteed 6s cooldown. We'll see how testing goes, but I have a feeling this is going to get a second look.

 

They updated the internal cooldown to 8s to help combat that. I think that should make things better. Basically 3 GCD fillers between the end of one FA and the beginning of the next rather than the chance to only have 2. The 8s also allows for alacrity talents to be taken without messing up the internal cooldown.

[stockwizzle]

My only knee-jerk concern is that 100% proc chance on CoF. Removing RNG completely is a huge win, but I am just really unsure of how this is going to affect PvE damage output. I would have rather seen something like what Jugg/Guardian got to solve their RNG problems, something that required stacking a couple of Grav Rounds to get CoF to proc.

 

This change basically gives FA a guaranteed 6s cooldown. We'll see how testing goes, but I have a feeling this is going to get a second look.

 

they announced that the ICD for COF is getting extended to 8 sec so that should even things out to not b too overpowered.. and i do like the fact of 100% proc chance especially for pvp the less casting time the better for me.. i have a really good feeling about this since the tech override CD has been lowered we will b able to use it more freely for either survivability or offense.. this should be fun

[cashogy_reborn]

Ah okay I missed that, 8s ICD would be exactly in line with what I just suggested lol (stack 2 gravs after 6s ICD to proc CoF).

 

 

Really can't wait to get to test this. The fact that most of these changes were straight up suggested by us makes me quite happy; our feedback is finally being utilized.

[ML_DoubleTap]

Oh, good point. I think I didn't post the one he did in the CoF hybrid spec. He has a really old parse that he did in it before assault was buffed and before, uh, gear. But that doesn't count.

 

If you happen have his old parse could you link it?

 

Just doing some napkin theory crafting, I'm guessing the rotation would look kinda like this:

 

GR->IR->HiB->FA->HiB*->RP+PG->CB->CB->HiB->GR->FA->CB->HiB?

 

*=only if IA proc on the FA

?=I believe at this point IR would be worn off so you'd have to either reapply before HiB or hope that your Plasma Cell was burning. At that point you've already pushed back the ICD of IA by one GCD because you needed GR before your FA and then CB to proc it. I don't see a way you could keep IA on it's 6s ICD like you can in Assault.

[KeyboardNinja]

If you happen have his old parse could you link it?

 

Just doing some napkin theory crafting, I'm guessing the rotation would look kinda like this:

 

GR->IR->HiB->FA->HiB*->RP+PG->CB->CB->HiB->GR->FA->CB->HiB?

 

*=only if IA proc on the FA

?=I believe at this point IR would be worn off so you'd have to either reapply before HiB or hope that your Plasma Cell was burning. At that point you've already pushed back the ICD of IA by one GCD because you needed GR before your FA and then CB to proc it. I don't see a way you could keep IA on it's 6s ICD like you can in Assault.

 

Found it: http://www.torparse.com/a/525023/3/0/Damage+Dealt

 

He calls it the "Tam hybrid" because it's the spec I made him run during one of our fail ops nights back in, like, 2.2. As I recall, he said that it felt fairly good, but the ammo was tighter than with spamcaster, gunnery or full assault. He also said it was very RNG dependent. I think Kantner's contention is that this spec will become a lot more fluid once Full Auto comes up reliably.

[Gyronamics]

I need to update my complaints list about assault.

 

Things are changing but if it stays as it is then pve is less of an issue since pushback, reliability and damage has changed since last questions.

 

However Assault commando is still and will continue to be horrible in PVP. The same state it has been since the game was released.

 

In a nutshell: interrupts at one end and cleanses at the other. With no utility or defensive buffs from its tree that can be taken seriously. Also DoT which cripples use of CC.

 

Also, interrupt resistant shield in tier 2 medic charges a high price for assault to reach, Gunnery has always had excess non-essential points, for assault to put 6 in medic requires massive sacrifices from the key talents in Gunnery or flat out not taking Assault Plastique.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Gyronamics

[cashogy_reborn]

Assault Command is *NOT* horrible for PvP. In no way shape or form.

 

Interrupt immunity may be out of reach for Assault, but you can get away with it, especially with a 60s cd on TO now.

It is certainly not out of reach for Gunny tho, you just need to be a bit creative and prioritize the bevy of stuff in the Gunny tree.

 

I already have a build in mind for Gunny, and will post it after I can see it in game once this goes to PTS.

Edited February 26, 2014 by cashogy_reborn

[Aieranda]

"Special Munitions will now reduce the cost of High Impact Bolt by 3/6/9 Heat/Ammo while in Armor Piercing Cell."

 

Does this mean the net ammo cost of Grav Round is going up by 3? Currently the skill reduces HIB by 6 and GR by 3, but that text only lists HIB by 9. Is this an omission in the text regarding only what is being updated, or is it the complete new text of the skill?

 

Does that affect anything if so. HIB would be cheaper, and with more Full Autos on a reliable refresh due to CoF change, it seems like we wouldn't need the extra pointless GRs that sometimes came along due to RNG.

 

Theory crafters: thoughts?

[cs_zoltan]

"Special Munitions will now reduce the cost of High Impact Bolt by 3/6/9 Heat/Ammo while in Armor Piercing Cell."

 

Does this mean the net ammo cost of Grav Round is going up by 3? Currently the skill reduces HIB by 6 and GR by 3, but that text only lists HIB by 9. Is this an omission in the text regarding only what is being updated, or is it the complete new text of the skill?

 

Does that affect anything if so. HIB would be cheaper, and with more Full Autos on a reliable refresh due to CoF change, it seems like we wouldn't need the extra pointless GRs that sometimes came along due to RNG.

 

Theory crafters: thoughts?

 

It won't. Devs said if they don't mention a part of a talent/skill/ability than it didn't change

[Gyronamics]

Assault Command is *NOT* horrible for PvP. In no way shape or form.

 

Do you disagree with any of the points I made?

 

What about the chasm of difference betwen the utility of Gunnery's PVP talents and the one for Assault?

 

Stockstrike root is right up there as a top used skill for me in pvp and every one of the buffs to the bread and butter base commando skills in Gunnery is well used.

 

Assault can use 1 stun and has to seriously consider how viable its CC can be when its own dots break it. The snare it has is unreliable and frankly rubbish.

 

I'm skimming of course but Assault has always been a mess stuck between sharing a tree with VGs and it really ought to be sharing half the talents from Gunnery too but isn't.

 

Can you convince me there's a reason to walk into a random wz or a solo ranked queue as assault over the gunnery spec. I've strongly disliked assault in pvp since 2.0 which is hugely ironic considering how much I play it outside pvp.

Edited February 26, 2014 by Gyronamics

[ArchangelLBC]

Yay gunnery buffs!

 

Question: will we finally get a numerical ammo display? Also isn't 8 seconds a tad weird since it isn't synched up with the gcd or is the idea to have it be a 9 second icd that takes into account alacrity? I'm less concerned about the hybrid since if it's a serious contender it will be gone before the patch leaves the pts. They can't so easily fix the sage hybrid.

[Altheran]

It won't. Devs said if they don't mention a part of a talent/skill/ability than it didn't change

 

Be careful with that statement... Last time I said it, on Guardian forum for 2.7 changes, it only ended with Tait contradicting me in the next post, by saying the missing part of description of the talent in question was in fact removed.

[ArchangelLBC]

Be careful with that statement... Last time I said it, on Guardian forum for 2.7 changes, it only ended with Tait contradicting me in the next post, by saying the missing part of description of the talent in question was in fact removed.

 

If you're talking about the threat drop, that's apples and oranges since they quadrupled the cooldown. For once I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that we will continue to have a 16 ammo grav round

[SOULCASTER]

Interesting.

 

There will now be a "7point Tax in the left tree" for all commando builds to get Combat Shields really. Which leaves Assault Commando (Pyro Merc) specs having only 3 points to put in the middle tree. Which you'd have to assume would be 2 in "Steadied Aim" (pushback reduction) and 1 elsewhere. Meaning you can no longer get +9% AIM increase in theory with assault spec commandos.

 

Assault is going to have to POWER stack I guess. Main stat might not be as ideal.

[cashogy_reborn]

Do you disagree with any of the points I made?

 

What about the chasm of difference betwen the utility of Gunnery's PVP talents and the one for Assault?

 

Stockstrike root is right up there as a top used skill for me in pvp and every one of the buffs to the bread and butter base commando skills in Gunnery is well used.

 

Assault can use 1 stun and has to seriously consider how viable its CC can be when its own dots break it. The snare it has is unreliable and frankly rubbish.

 

I'm skimming of course but Assault has always been a mess stuck between sharing a tree with VGs and it really ought to be sharing half the talents from Gunnery too but isn't.

 

Can you convince me there's a reason to walk into a random wz or a solo ranked queue as assault over the gunnery spec. I've strongly disliked assault in pvp since 2.0 which is hugely ironic considering how much I play it outside pvp.

 

Without typing a novel, yes I think that Gunny is better than Assault, but I dont not think Assault is bad.

 

I currently play Gunny in PvP. Nuff said I guess.

 

Interesting.

 

There will now be a "7point Tax in the left tree" for all commando builds to get Combat Shields really. Which leaves Assault Commando (Pyro Merc) specs having only 3 points to put in the middle tree. Which you'd have to assume would be 2 in "Steadied Aim" (pushback reduction) and 1 elsewhere. Meaning you can no longer get +9% AIM increase in theory with assault spec commandos.

 

Assault is going to have to POWER stack I guess. Main stat might not be as ideal.

 

Only 6pts, but I dont think Assault needs that interrupt immunity as much as Gunny does. Also you can reconfigure the standard Gunny spec easily enough to accept the 6pt 'tax'.

 

You would have to give up way too much offensive power to get that interrupt immunity, and with no cd reduction on Reactive Shield for Assault, it has a huge downtime. Not worth it IMO.

Edited February 27, 2014 by cashogy_reborn

[cs_zoltan]

Interesting.

 

There will now be a "7point Tax in the left tree" for all commando builds to get Combat Shields really. Which leaves Assault Commando (Pyro Merc) specs having only 3 points to put in the middle tree. Which you'd have to assume would be 2 in "Steadied Aim" (pushback reduction) and 1 elsewhere. Meaning you can no longer get +9% AIM increase in theory with assault spec commandos.

 

Assault is going to have to POWER stack I guess. Main stat might not be as ideal.

 

*6point. And I personally won't spec into it when playing assault, interrupt is not that bad with assault that i'd drop 3% aim and 6% CB dmg and 6% range crit.

[SOULCASTER]

Yeah 6pt not 7. Sorry for the typo.

 

And the pushback immunity on Charged Bolts/Full auto is pretty important, even for Assault Specs. I think a guaranteed interrupt immunity, even for assault is also extremely important. Especially in rated arenas. Assault/Pyro Commando/Merc is also pretty casty. You rely on casting charged bolts and channeling full auto to get your procs. While you are more mobile with the Fire Dot and Assault Plastique, your real damage potential requires casting still. Which is a flaw I always never agreed with when it comes to assault spec. Assault really should be more mobile than it is. Whats worse about assault spec is that it doesn't have any of the escapes of Gunnery either (larget knockback, stock strike root).

 

This update kind of doesn't do a lot for Assault/Pyro. Would like to see something tweaked in that tree. I always find it amusing when a ''shared'' tree of a class has one advanced class do really well with it and the other is mediocre.

Edited February 27, 2014 by SOULCASTER