Class Rep. And Questions

[Ottoattack]

I was not sure if the class rep. will be different for commandos than merc (I like Cashy ). I know that with the exception of the healer, not much has changed, but here are my 2 cents.

 

I will use merc acronyms cuz I do not know the commando ones, so forgive me in advance. I also do not play healer.

 

Surely enough power surge is on the top of the list of questions. It was acknowledged in the class rep question. No action was taken. Cashy brought it on PTS and the devs ignored it.

 

Also, devs did agree that commandos/mercs dps are not doing that hot in PvP, which is factual information based on group ranked leader boards. The only change was the removal of push back from TM and PS. It did improve performance better than I expected, but in the grand scheme things, did not make commando dps anymore competitive. Interrupt is a serious issue. Again, I am looking at power surge CD, but even if it's CD drop to 60 secs instead of 120 (30 for gunnery), would that be enough? I do not think so.

 

PvE wise, I heard that gunnery needs a slight buff. I do not PvE so I am not sure. I know that pyro is top parsing spec.

 

Other minor stuff:

 

proc on unload needs to be more consistent in gunnery.

 

Energy management for gunnery and pyro is not that great, and I do not want devs to waste their time in redesigning energy management.

Edited February 21, 2014 by Ottoattack

[stockwizzle]

i agree and it seems they are saying that the combat team is still trying to work out what to do with us so maybe it is actually a big change/fix that we dont know about yet but if they do lower the cd to tech overide i would like to see a little bit more ammo to work with or atleast a little more forgiving resource system

[cashogy_reborn]

We are going to be getting some kind of changes in 2.7, Musco confirmed it yesterday I believe.

 

I have no idea what to expect.

[TACeMossie]

We are going to be getting some kind of changes in 2.7, Musco confirmed it yesterday I believe.

 

I have no idea what to expect.

 

/crosses fingers

 

please be remove diminishing returns on lower ammo

 

please

 

(also I main a VG but we have energy issues too...)

[BoskiCesiu]

Yesterday I was hit from marauder's aoe sweep for 10500 hp. I am full augmented obroan set (healer) with 32k hp.

 

Today, after two years of paying and playing I closed subscription. I dont want to pay for this s h i t!

Edited February 23, 2014 by BoskiCesiu

[Essence_of_Light]

Yesterday I was hit from marauder's aoe sweep for 10500 hp. I am full augmented obroan set (healer) with 32k hp.

 

Today, after two years of paying and playing I closed subscription. I dont want to pay for this s h i t!

 

Good news though, (for PvP) smash is getting nerfed (about time)!

[BoskiCesiu]

Good news though, (for PvP) smash is getting nerfed (about time)!

 

But commando is still chicken to kill...

[ArchangelLBC]

We are going to be getting some kind of changes in 2.7, Musco confirmed it yesterday I believe.

 

I have no idea what to expect.

 

The most likely thing they are going to do is grant Curtain of Fire a similar proc system to what they're introducing with the Sage DPS specs and have already done for Vigilance. They will also formalize a similar system for Assault which will likely end up being a net nerf to that spec. I would imagine the delays thus far come from the fact that assault gets procs from both Charged Burst and Full Auto so they may be trying to figure out how they want to work with that.

 

They also try to do something to address CM ammo issues, but can't be absolutely sure of that.

 

Part of me wishes they could preserve some of the variation the RNG brings, but most of me just wants to stop having to fish for procs in the hopes of keeping my head above water on ammo management.

[venomlash]

All I want for Passover is for Gunnery's HIB to be free again.

[cashogy_reborn]

All I want for Passover is for Gunnery's HIB to be free again.

 

Ahahahahhahahahahahah

 

If the devs gave us a buff, dayenu

[BoskiCesiu]

Ahahahahhahahahahahah

 

If the devs gave us a buff, dayenu

 

 

I do not believe in it - two years of waiting and still nothing.

Now Sage/sorc got buff, Commando/Merc still last.

Edited February 24, 2014 by BoskiCesiu

[wishihadaname]

Hey guys, don't feel bad. Roll an operative, spec for dps, give it a few warzones at max level, then try your commando again. You will feel a whole lot better.

[Essence_of_Light]

Hey guys, don't feel bad. Roll an operative, spec for dps, give it a few warzones at max level, then try your commando again. You will feel a whole lot better.

 

I actually found Ops DPS easier to play at Warzones (55). Am I weird?

Edited February 25, 2014 by Essence_of_Light

[Aaoogaa]

I actually found Ops DPS easier to play at Warzones (55). Am I weird?

 

No, you're correct it is easier when played right. Go in with a group and wreck people. Nothing worse than a op/scoundrel popping on you when you're at half health and your defensive just dropped. Run solo and cry when other classes use their abilities to deny you your optimal range.

[wishihadaname]

No, you're correct it is easier when played right. Go in with a group and wreck people. Nothing worse than a op/scoundrel popping on you when you're at half health and your defensive just dropped. Run solo and cry when other classes use their abilities to deny you your optimal range.

 

You could say the same for commandos. That said, my commando is close to 1300 solo ranking (not spectacular but something). My operative I don't even dare set foot in ranked with and haven't seen a dps operative do well in ranked ever.

[AMightyKnight]

Mando questions are due less than three weeks from today and we had some time testing the Gunnery changes on the pts.

 

Its cashogys Job and all but we probably should start talking about our questions.

 

I dont do pvp but usability of the class tops everything at this point i guess. Personally id argue for still more changes to Gunnery, maybe less than 8 secs cd on CoF proc or free HiB.

And i would like to hear their excuses as to why Mandos are still on a disadvantge compared to Mers with the Assault Offhand issue and the missing UI ammo display.

Or we could ask them when the Pyro nerf will be Happening

 

Any thoughts?

[TheSupaCoopa]

Duran'del here:

 

It would be a decent(though not super important) question would be the difference between CDs of AS Mandos and AS VGs.

 

"Vanguards get a improved version of Adrenaline Rush, which greatly improved their survivability while under fire. Commandos, however, get a slight damage buff to a weak skill and a CD decrease of said skill while.under fire. Could there be a way to increase the Commando's survivability under fire by replacing this talent?"

Edited March 12, 2014 by TheSupaCoopa

[cashogy_reborn]

Right now I am planning on asking a question about utility for Assault (could really use a ranged root), and better integration of Tech Override into the Combat Medic tree (more counters to interrupts).

 

I will also be asking about the possibility of Commando getting a disengage ability, similar to the Hunter's in WoW.

 

Open to suggestions on PvE related questions, as I know nothing about it.

Edited March 12, 2014 by cashogy_reborn

[ArchangelLBC]

After some testing on the PTS by myself, as well as looking at what Odawgg has done, I think that maybe they should indeed lower the ICD of Curtain of Fire to 7 seconds. Afterall none of the Sage ICDs were changed to account for their procs being guaranteed. I'd coordinate with Odawgg actually for PVE DPS and ask him what he thinks is best.

 

You could also ask about the discrepancy between Commandos and Mercs for things like Assault procs as well as our continued lack of a damned ammo counter. How has this still not been fixed?

 

You could also use the opportunity to bring up the advantage snipers bring. The raid shield is all well and good, but that 35m range actually matters (there are many fights where I don't have to move on my slinger but DO have to move on my commando simply because of the range of the new target). Personally I feel all ranged classes should have 35m range and be immune to pushback, at least for DPS abilities, but sages are the last to really suffer from pushback. Fact is though that they really did overestimate off healing capability, and as a result Snipers have by far the best raid utility in the game, followed closely by sentinels. We have the best off healing but Kolto Bomb doesn't come close to being as good as the sniper shield, even if you spam it.

 

I don't know much about healing. I think there's still an ammo management problem but with Scoundrels about to get nerfed the difference may not be as huge as it was, and frankly with Trauma Probes being usable on the entire raid Commando healing is really REALLY strong at the moment.

 

I dunno, just spit balling atm.

Edited March 12, 2014 by ArchangelLBC

[wishihadaname]

Maybe this is just me, but i'm finding gunnery to be VERY boring on the PTS. Its literally a 4 button rotation now free of RNG, and only occasionally interrupted by a plasma nade or electronet. Of all the dps i've played in this game this has got to be the most boring rotation. Why not spice it up a bit with some more complicated offensive burst combos?

 

Specifically, i'm talking about the integration of some other iconic commando moves in order to build more reliable burst at the cost of ammo. My own idea:

 

-Explosive round builds a charge of a new buff called "Ordinance Calibration". Stacks fall off after 10-15s.

-At 6 stacks (2 stacks per cast of explosive round) your demo round auto crits OR your sticky grenade applies a debuff to the target upon detonation that increases all incoming damage 15%.

And:

-5 stacks of charged barrel can now be used to instant cast a free plasma grenade.

Or:

-5 stacks of static barrier can now be utilitized to initiate an armor lock for 8s using decoys. While your armor is locked you cannot move, cannot break the armor lock, reflect 75% of damage back to attackers, and slow any enemy within 10m by 75%.

 

The idea here is to increase the classes utility as well as to increase the skill cap. Right now its REALLY easy to be good in PVE as a gunnery commando, a bit harder in pvp, overall though the role gets boring. Introducing some situational mechanics that you have to have foresight to build towards would be interesting.

[ArchangelLBC]

Some sort of talented buff in at least one of the trees to Plasma Grenade WOULD be really nice. Mortar Volley too since neither trooper AC has a buff to that. It's such an anomaly of an ability since it's so expensive, has a long cooldown, and isn't buffed at all. Why is it there BW?

[AMightyKnight]

DONT talk about Mortar Volley. After they butchered Orbital Strike its next in line. Dont remind them, give them something else to think about.

 

Explosive Round? I dont think they will revisit this trainwreck after what they tried to do in 2.0. Also Gunnery just hasnt the energy reserves to do anything with ER.

 

Personally i dont think Gunnery is too easy and boring these days. Truth to be told, it was easy to play at some 80% efficiency since launch but on the same time very difficult to master completely. Perfect energy management is a very hard thing to do during ops and to this day Mandos lack the neccessary tool to do it (ui ammo display). IMO the spec is actually harder to play perfectley with the constant cooldown. Before you had a relativley simple piority list based on your energy level to work with. You would utilize a CoF proc if it happened and as soon as your energy allowed for it. But now you have to keep track of the piority list and the hard 8 sec cd and CoF proc. You need to know all times which gcd is happening, when you need to cast your next Grav to proc and how you balance the 'wandering' DemoRound and HiB in this locked setting.

I dont think anyone has found an optimal solution for this yet. And as always, whats looks ok on the dummy is a completely different thing when playing against the boss. Keeping track of gcds for max dps in a fluid enviroment with movement, target switching and damage stops is always a challenge, four buttons or not.

[Gyronamics]

Assault is being carried through PVE by sheer dps and generally that's all you need as a dps. I don't give two nuts for the whining that it's better than X now, it's been worse than most since forever.

 

In PVP it needs quite a lot of things and frankly a bundle question/paragraph would be good.

 

Damage sustainability:

 

Dot protection even if it's "ghost" dots such as dirty fighting has so HiB can still be used since HiB can be a whole third of the damage pie.

 

Interrupt protection shield is still horribly penalising for Assault to reach, requires the loss of 6% ranged crit and 9% aim.

 

Utility:

 

Current snare is pathetic beyond belief, too short and weak to gain advantages with. The 4s Stockstrike root in Gunnery eclipses it by a huge margin as far as being useful goes. Ball carrier? Healer escaping? Defender running to interrupt the cap? Melee harassing you? This is a massive reason to spec Gunnery for PVP.

 

Downright horrible talents for PVP and PVE

 

Nightvision Scope: 2% defence against white damage. 5s less on Stealth Scan. First part is simply trivial, second part imagines that Scan is spammed as a pre-emptive defence. It's not because stealth can see and avoid it and as such is a miserable defence against stealth. Now if it made scans invisible that would be welcome for pvp.

 

Sweltering Heat: 2s of 30% slow. Effect covered previously under the line "pathetic beyond belief". Let me further add that it is an unreliable effect. Firstly it has a non-100% chance to proc on Hammer shots and a 6s internal cooldown on that passive effect, secondly it has a 100% chance to proc on Explosive Round but with a 6s internal cooldown so whatever you do its impossible to sustain since it barely lasts more than 1GCD and wasn't worth the effort in the first place.

 

Better synergy with abilities

 

Assault is meant to be a fire based tree yet it amazingly has no link to Plasma Grenade, instead it has a link to Explosive Round which even talented is rarely used because of the horrible internal CD on the plasma cell proc.

 

Hail of Bolts gains 9% on burning targets yet no abilities in the Assault inventory will set its 5 targets on fire without massive spamming of single target dots.

 

Plasma Cell is affected by RNG and an ICD causing an unreliable proc and unreliable sustainability of the Plasma Cell dot even on a target you've been hitting constantly. A moderate QOL change would be to remove the ICD on the proc and cause it to be constantly sustained as long as the target is constantly being attacked.

 

 

So to shorten it all:

 

DoT Protection

Cast Protection

A substantial, reliable, reasonable CD, snare or root both for self-defence AND utility in wzs.

Better synergy with abilities in connection with its fire theme

Less RNG on Plasma Cell

 

 

And to cap it all off, a complete ending of horrible linked changes between Vanguard and Commando Assault. One is melee, one is a hard caster. Hated every change that happened to Assault due to the VG tree having too much burst in PVP top of the list being Assault Plastique becoming a half moderate burst half dot instead of a killing blow scale burst which matters in pvp. Sage and Shadow Balance have vastly more in common and it actually makes some sense for them.

 

 

Completely separate is this quote:

 

Gang,

 

One of the changes that has generated the most vocal feedback is the change to the Sniper and 'Slingers defensive cooldown, Evasion/Dodge. We firmly believe that these Classes are lacking in a distinct emergency survive button, something that each other Advanced Class has (either via escapes like a Vanish, or more brute force mans like an Undying Rage), however, the way we initially proposed adding via the Force/Tech immunity simply created no counter gameplay at all. Combine this with only a minute cooldown, and it created a situation that we don't feel is the right direction for the Class, especially combined with some duration increasing mechanics that players can achieve elsewhere.

 

To that end, in the next patch that hits PTS, the change to Evasion/Dodge is going to be reverted back to the live behavior. We still want to give these Classes something to fill in this gap, but at this moment it probably won't be in 2.7.

 

Now that was a reply to Slingers/Snipers about their 3s immunity being revoked because as everyone knew, it was BS.

 

Nevertheless read that, quote it and ask what our current "emergency survive button" is meant to be and pre-empting the answer, ask when we are going to get this ability to to get away from combat safely or survive burst damage.

 

Also for the love of doge insist it's not another thing slapped onto our ONE shield which is already stacked with interrupt protection, flames and still on a long cooldown for 2/3 specs.

 

 

 

Probably think of something more later. I emailed some thoughts about assault a while back but they are no longer up to date.

Edited March 13, 2014 by Gyronamics

[cashogy_reborn]

Yeah I am not going to mention Mortar Volley at all, the devs seem to be on a 'nerf AOE' binge and I dont want to bring it to their attention, as it is a decent AOE ability.

 

Plasma Grenade needs some help tho. It does not even get a damage bonus/surge bonus from the talent trees in Assault, despite it being a fire dot and Assault being a fire-dot based tree.

 

Im going to post a thread next week where we can get some more specific question ideas down. Assault is going to be a focus of the questions I think.

Edited March 14, 2014 by cashogy_reborn

[ArchangelLBC]

From a PVE perspective I'm not sure I see the point of focusing on Assault. It's the best ranged spec in the game atm, and if you're worried about calling attention to something, the incredibly broken proc is something you should probably stay away from. I still think Gunnery has problems. Need to see comparisons to other ranged specs perhaps, but right now it still looks to be the lowest parsing ranged DPS spec in the game.

 

Don't let them forget the damned ammo counter though.