The SWTOR appearance customization system is horrid and costing Bioware revenue

[AlienEyeTX]

Except there is no proof whatsoever that what the OP presents as opinion is in any way materially factual to "costing Bioware revenue".

 

It get it.. he does not like to pay to switch mods in appearance. he is entitled to his opinion and feelings, but that's as far as it goes. He simply lacks any analytics data of any kind to support his theory.

 

You can't have the QQ both ways folks... you can't QQ that they money grub everything from players by force AND then QQ that they are leaving revenue on the table by not submitting to your personal will and desire as a player. Pick a bias and stick to it IMO... either they are money grubbers that suck your wallet dry of real money at every opportunity... OR.... they are inept and leaving money on the table. Which is it?... or does it completely depend on your mood for the day or something?

 

To be fair, those things do not have to be mutually exclusive. They could be money-grubbers, but missing opportunities to grub more money. They may be trying to bleed the cash from us, but not be optimizing their opportunities.

 

I don't believe either case is true, but I'm just saying...

[agamemnon-]

Probably "technically difficult" and "require too many resources" for Bioware to make any changes.

[JimG]

You're not really covering any new ground with this topic....basically just rehashing what other people have said before. However, let's start with your premise that the set-up is "costing Bioware revenue". That's just a ridiculous assumption. Everything that's been released as far as the finances of this game indicates that they have made a LOT of money off the CM. Their revenue stream doubled once they launched the F2P hybrid model and the CM. You, personally, might be more likely to spend more money if they did certain things that appealed to you. But you have no evidence supporting any claim that you could set up a better economic model.

 

That being said, the whole dye system is certainly clunky but once those chose to go the dye kit route, they pretty much married themselves to that system. Also, the introduction of adaptive gear, etc. has made certain other gear/customization things obsolete but that was bound to happen anyway.

[DarthTHC]

I've been trying to think of scenarios that make the OP's subject true.

 

If BioWare sold dyes directly rather than in random packs, would that increase revenue? In order to answer "yes", we need to believe there is pent-up demand to purchase dyes for real money instead of ingame currency, for if we take a quick look at the GTN, all dyes (except a rare few I will get to in a moment) are already represented there. The rare few - black/black and white/white - BioWare does sell directly on CM from time to time. It's hard for me to rationalize increased revenue for selling dyes directly.

 

If BioWare made it less expensive or free to change your character's look, would that increase revenue? It might increase the frequency with which people change outfits, sure. But to believe it would increase revenue, we have to believe there is pent-up demand for outfits. If we take a quick look at GTN, there are stacks and stacks and stacks of Cartel Market outfits out there, just waiting to be bought for a pittance of credits. Someone's going to spend real money to obtain those? Doubtful.

 

The one thing that I can come up with is the ultra-rare vehicles. Judging by the asking prices on GTN, assuming people have actually priced to sell, there seems to be significant demand for some of the rare vehicles. BioWare might be able to eke out more revenue by offering some of those for sale directly just as they've done with the ultra-rare dyes. However, that's not appearance customization so it's off topic, right?

 

I guess I'm left to ask the OP: Where exactly do you think BioWare is missing out on revenue or what change do you think they could make to get more? Please be sure to explain the connection between your stated "miss" or change and how BioWare gets more money for doing what you suggest.

Edited February 19, 2014 by DarthTHC

[Cernow]

If BioWare made it less expensive or free to change your character's look, would that increase revenue? It might increase the frequency with which people change outfits, sure. But to believe it would increase revenue, we have to believe there is pent-up demand for outfits. If we take a quick look at GTN, there are stacks and stacks and stacks of Cartel Market outfits out there, just waiting to be bought for a pittance of credits. Someone's going to spend real money to obtain those? Doubtful.

 

Err, where do you think those Cartel Market outfits come from then? Not all of them are from packs bought by subscribers with their monthly complimentary cartel coins. Many of them are from packs bought with ... <drum roll> ..... REAL MONEY, either by subscribers buying extra coins or F2P players buying coins.

 

The one thing that I can come up with is the ultra-rare vehicles. Judging by the asking prices on GTN, assuming people have actually priced to sell, there seems to be significant demand for some of the rare vehicles. BioWare might be able to eke out more revenue by offering some of those for sale directly just as they've done with the ultra-rare dyes. However, that's not appearance customization so it's off topic, right?

 

And how many Cartel Packs and Hypercrates do you think people had to buy in order to gain those super rare speeders? Far more than can be explained by subscribers spending only their monthly complimentary coins. Again, it's ..... <drum roll> ..... REAL MONEY.

[DarthTHC]

Err, where do you think those Cartel Market outfits come from then? Not all of them are from packs bought by subscribers with their monthly complimentary cartel coins. Many of them are from packs bought with ... <drum roll> ..... REAL MONEY, either by subscribers buying extra coins or F2P players buying coins.

 

And how many Cartel Packs and Hypercrates do you think people had to buy in order to gain those super rare speeders? Far more than can be explained by subscribers spending only their monthly complimentary coins. Again, it's ..... <drum roll> ..... REAL MONEY.

 

I understand and agree that all these things come from real money transactions.

 

The OP's point seems to be that if BioWare changed the appearance system in some way, they would get more revenue. That's my question - what's that change and how does it tie to more revenue?

[PlasmaJohn]

The OP's point seems to be that if BioWare changed the appearance system in some way, they would get more revenue. That's my question - what's that change and how does it tie to more revenue?

Supply and demand.

 

If changing outfits weren't so expensive (just did this, 520k + 7 Mk-9 augment kits + cost of new outfit and dye kits) demand would go up. Higher demand would encourage people to add more supply which translates to higher sales of gamble packs and direct purchase sets.

[DarthTHC]

Supply and demand.

 

If changing outfits weren't so expensive (just did this, 520k + 7 Mk-9 augment kits + cost of new outfit and dye kits) demand would go up. Higher demand would encourage people to add more supply which translates to higher sales of gamble packs and direct purchase sets.

 

So instead of people spending 1,000,000 on an outfit and 500k to swap mods into it, they'll spend 2,000,000 or more on just the outfit and that will prompt people who are interested in converting cash into credits to buy more cartel packs?

 

Plausible, I suppose.

[PlasmaJohn]

If we had an appearance tab I would be all over buying multiple looks for my characters. Once I get a look I like I tend to stick with it especially once I start augmenting.

[illgot]

Dyes do not need to be sold via specific colour.

 

GW2 sells regular dye packs which are random colours and special special dye packs you can only get in the cash shop which have special effects like glows and textures (also random from the special colours).

 

Every dye pack in GW2 is random and they probably have thousands of colours that can show up.

 

So the market for the rare dyes is pretty high.

Edited February 19, 2014 by illgot

[NoFishing]

You can't have the QQ both ways folks... you can't QQ that they money grub everything from players by force AND then QQ that they are leaving revenue on the table by not submitting to your personal will and desire as a player. Pick a bias and stick to it IMO... either they are money grubbers that suck your wallet dry of real money at every opportunity... OR.... they are inept and leaving money on the table. Which is it?... or does it completely depend on your mood for the day or something?

 

You mean that I'm not allowed to have different opinions about different parts of the game? I'm not allowed to think $18 is way too much to pay for a mount, but would pay $10 for a dye if only it were reusable? Or that Bioware shouldn't charge for the hide head slot option, but charging for XP boosts is fine?

 

It's a forum...we are allowed to express opinions about the game both positive and negative. Those opinions don't have to make sense to you, be supported by data that would be impossible for us to access, or even be consistently on one side or the other.

[Heal-To-Full]

The current system is largely hardwired into the game's obsolete engine... As drastic change as to LotRO style might be excessive.

 

You only need to augment your raiding and PvP gear. There's no point augmenting gear for RP purposes. You don't augment gear while leveling either, unless you're really wealthy and want to show it off.

Most people either raid or seriously PvP, so it's pretty much down to 1 fully augmented set, 2 for some of us.

 

The expense of switching mods and augs does, though, make me think twice before buying new custom wearables on CM and GTN. Sure it may be cheap, but it's always +200k per item if I'm to switch 78s+mk9 in.

 

I don't feel the pain as much as some because I have a lot of alts and don't feel the need to change my looks more often than I switch alts.

[Andryah]

You mean that I'm not allowed to have different opinions about different parts of the game? I'm not allowed to think $18 is way too much to pay for a mount, but would pay $10 for a dye if only it were reusable? Or that Bioware shouldn't charge for the hide head slot option, but charging for XP boosts is fine?

 

It's a forum...we are allowed to express opinions about the game both positive and negative. Those opinions don't have to make sense to you, be supported by data that would be impossible for us to access, or even be consistently on one side or the other.

 

You are correct, you are allowed to pull any opinion out of any dark place you like. Does not make if valid of course.

 

Pitching diametrically opposing views about the game and the dev team just to prosecute ones frustrations with a game is however QQing out of both sides of one's noodle box. It's hypocrisy. But again, hypocrisy is not against the forum rules, nor is pointing it out.

[CosmicKat]

You are correct, you are allowed to pull any opinion out of any dark place you like. Does not make if valid of course.

 

Pitching diametrically opposing views about the game and the dev team just to prosecute ones frustrations with a game is however QQing out of both sides of one's noodle box. It's hypocrisy. But again, hypocrisy is not against the forum rules, nor is pointing it out.

 

And if anyone knows hypocrisy...

[Excise]

Totally agree with the appearance tab thing. It is a common request.

 

I do not understand why a company with a business model that involves selling you multiple armour sets... would make it so impractical to have multiple armour sets.

[Whifi]

I'd love an appearance tab. I used to switch outfits on the fly in LotRO, would do so here.

 

I'd have bought the cold weather gear from the CM if we had this just to wear it on Ilum or Hoth and then switch back to my Jedi robes. While that would be the extent of doing it on my Jedi, my trooper would appreciate alternate tabs even more. Out on the field? Standard outfit. Cold planet? Cold weather styled trooper gear. On the fleet or in Coruscant? casual gear. Jungle planet? Green dyed, jungle themed outtfit, and so on.

 

Full support here!

[RowanThursday]

I can only assume the thinking is that, with the mod system, we have to spend more on cartel coins on the quality of life unlocks in order to survive the grind to *get* the credits for as many mods, armour modules, enhancements, etc for multiple outfits, than we would spend on multiple outfits at the cartel market if we could just equip them.

 

That seems... unlikely, to say the least.

 

Either that or it's an ideological hang-over from the days when "social clothing" was non-adaptive, and they don't actually *want* it to be practical for Jenny the Trooper's bikini and exotic silk set to be kitted out as effective at resisting and increasing damage in combat as her heavy duty Havoc Squad body armour.

 

The latter, though-- no, that's wishful thinking that they'd actually have a thought out, if still objectionably obstructive, reason.

[NoFishing]

You are correct, you are allowed to pull any opinion out of any dark place you like. Does not make if valid of course.……….…

 

So, what is your statistically accurate, metrics-derived opinion of the relationship between the release of new armor styles to the cartel market and the in-game cost of utilizing those looks on our characters? Or are you just here to QQ about people expressing opinions that you deem invalid?

[Damask_Rose]

I understand and agree that all these things come from real money transactions.

 

The OP's point seems to be that if BioWare changed the appearance system in some way, they would get more revenue. That's my question - what's that change and how does it tie to more revenue?

 

They could charge CC for appearance tabs as individual unlocks or as account unlocks. They could have more than one appearance tab per character available. Then they could add an appearance tab for companions too. That would be direct revenue from appearance tabs.

 

By making it a one button click to change your look there would be a much larger incentive to open up armor sets in collections. (If you aren't familiar with how appearance tabs work, the armor you are wearing has the stats, armor in the tabs is just the look.) This would be an indirect source of revenue.

 

By making it a one button click to change your look there would be a much larger incentive to acquire armor. More packs would sell to people who want to take the gamble to get the hard to get breastplate they want, and more packs would sell to people who resell on the GTN since the demand for armor would be higher. This would be another indirect source of revenue.

 

Increasing the demand for diverse armor looks would also increase the amount of armor sold directly from the CM. Again, yet another indirect source of revenue.

 

To sum it up, they could potentially make hundreds of thousands directly from appearance tabs and at the same time make more money from increased collections unlocks, pack sales and armor sales.

[Jeweledleah]

honestly? I think one of the ways they could increase their revenue is by offering ALL existing cartel market dyes for direct purchase. not in gambling packs - direct purchase. just price them according to rarity, keep them one time use only.

 

I'm pretty darn sure that they will see people using that feature at least as much as people use recustomization kiosk.

[CosmicKat]

honestly? I think one of the ways they could increase their revenue is by offering ALL existing cartel market dyes for direct purchase. not in gambling packs - direct purchase. just price them according to rarity, keep them one time use only.

 

I'm pretty darn sure that they will see people using that feature at least as much as people use recustomization kiosk.

 

IMO they could make more money, and incur less of the wrath of the playerbase by abandoning all gambling bags, allowing direct purchase of everything, and by drastically reducing all CC's costs to at most 10% of current costs.

 

Selling more for less never works though. I mean, if it did, every city on the world would have a McDonald's in it, and that's just crazy talk.

[Tahana]

/shrug. I like current system. I like it that I can create a look and keep said look for a character all through their leveling process. I like the fact that I can mix and match mods to get the exact stats I want instead of having to wear a single monolithic piece of armor. I like it that I'm not constrained by gear armor type to get the stats I like.

 

that said... ability to reuse dyes and appearance tab would be a nice ADDITION to a current system. I wouldn't want what we have replaced, personally, but having more options is generally lovely.

 

I'm with you, I like the current system. It is so much better than other stat adjustment systems that I've dealt with.

[agamemnon-]

IMO they could make more money, and incur less of the wrath of the playerbase by abandoning all gambling bags, allowing direct purchase of everything, and by drastically reducing all CC's costs to at most 10% of current costs.

 

Selling more for less never works though. I mean, if it did, every city on the world would have a McDonald's in it, and that's just crazy talk.

 

IMHO, game developers in general drastically underestimate the revenue that would make by just selling items and not relying on gambling boxes. Players will happily fork over money for decent clothing options not hidden behind RNG.

[TheOuroborus]

We've all been asking for an Appearance Tab since pre-launch. Hey, but Starfighter.

[Excise]

I'd have bought the cold weather gear from the CM if we had this just to wear it on Ilum or Hoth and then switch back to my Jedi robes. While that would be the extent of doing it on my Jedi, my trooper would appreciate alternate tabs even more. Out on the field? Standard outfit. Cold planet? Cold weather styled trooper gear. On the fleet or in Coruscant? casual gear. Jungle planet? Green dyed, jungle themed outtfit, and so on.

 

Good example. I can't imagine buying the Cold Weather gear that I'd, essentially, have to wear all the time or none of the time. Great for Ilum and Hoth... but having to use it on Tatooine also? Crazy.