They took everything

[Helig]

all byitself Stealth is useless. You need to have some offensive abilities to make Stealth work for your advantage.

I agree with Evo. Stealth provides enormous tactical advantage. Provided you know how to use it. There's a lot more to stealth than "hit first" and "sneak up on someone".

Edited February 17, 2014 by Helig

[Solarenergy]

The knockdown needed no changing. The cause of this is 100% the massive amount of crying from the forums.

 

This. Unfortunately, this always happens with this game. When the forums are overflooded with crying about certain abilities, devs respond with nerf. I really hope they don't do the same thing with assassins.

[Zoom_VI]

I wish they would make that new root on the opener baseline at least, lord knows the opener for dirty fighting is underwhelming enough without the target waltzing away.

[Raansu]

This. Unfortunately, this always happens with this game. When the forums are overflooded with crying about certain abilities, devs respond with nerf. I really hope they don't do the same thing with assassins.

 

Sadly its going to happen eventually.

[Helig]

Sadly its going to happen eventually.

Spike doesn't do (much) damage. I recall BW mentioned in some dev blog that they don't want one skill to do a lot of things at once. Originally (1.2) they nerfed the knockdown and the damage of Hidden Strike, because they didn't want both, strong CC and strong damage on an opener.

 

And now they seem to be trying to divorce different ways of opening on different stealth classes. Sins would open with a low-damage knockdown, then follow up with damage, while Ops would open with damage and follow up with CC... or something.

[Raansu]

Spike doesn't do (much) damage. I recall BW mentioned in some dev blog that they don't want one skill to do a lot of things at once. Originally (1.2) they nerfed the knockdown and the damage of Hidden Strike, because they didn't want both, strong CC and strong damage on an opener.

 

And now they seem to be trying to divorce different ways of opening on different stealth classes. Sins would open with a low-damage knockdown, then follow up with damage, while Ops would open with damage and follow up with CC... or something.

 

Who said it would be spike? With the murder of scrapper we all know they are going to do the same thing to assassins sooner or later.

[Joesixxpack]

Little high, little low.

 

 

And after toying around on my scrapper, I realized despite effectiveness, it just isn't as fun without the KD. Why not just make it so the target automatically gets up at the end of .5 seconds? Seems to me, they only lay there longer due to time it takes them to realize to just let off the movement button then get back on it.

 

Oh well. By the time this goes live I plan to only exist on my slinger as free to play anyway.

 

Any way the wind blows....

 

I agree with the catering to bads and crybabies sentiments. The KD makes dumb and impatient people mad, and placating them is a higher priority than challenging people to learn tactics or otherwise raise their personal bar.

[Smuglebunny]

This is how a game fails. TEXTBOOK.

 

Cater to bads and casuals. Maintain substandard numbers for a while cuz real mmo players go elsewhere and TALK ABOUT IT. Then your bads and casuals leave you for the next best things, your few loyal diehards quit due to no one to play with and a game they have been made to hate over time.

 

GREAT JOB!

 

Bioware/EA: "The company that fails."

 

This is their new motto, post it everywhere.

[Cordorian]

i sense soon people will run the forums because the get globaled by teams of combat sentinels leaping at them and wrecking whole teams appart within seconds, because now that smash will lose its appeal sents/maras will probably try out the other viable tree at bit more.

 

As both a scrapper and concealment operative, i think thats it for me. This nerfs was just one too much (and i gave up on the class so many times and always return). I don't know exactly how the changes will switch the mechanics of fights, but despite being the best healers in pvp, we always lacked burst to really heal through sudden damage (that is why burn the tank actually works in the current arena setting). Now they makes us even worse at keeping a target under fire up. It might have reached a point where the more bursty healer could have a slight edge now, but i we'll have to see. Might focus on my assassin and shadow now for the stealthy fun, but i guess they are next on the list, when calls for nerfs swell up again.

 

Dark times ahead. Sounds like endgame.

[mulzii]

Little high, little low.

 

 

And after toying around on my scrapper, I realized despite effectiveness, it just isn't as fun without the KD. Why not just make it so the target automatically gets up at the end of .5 seconds? Seems to me, they only lay there longer due to time it takes them to realize to just let off the movement button then get back on it.

 

Oh well. By the time this goes live I plan to only exist on my slinger as free to play anyway.

 

correct me if i'm wrong but if the devs were really concerned about the the KD, perhaps they should have down something about the kd grenade, thats a hell of a lot worse than the 1.5 sec kd ops had...

[Helig]

Who said it would be spike? With the murder of scrapper we all know they are going to do the same thing to assassins sooner or later.

Oh please, no need for dramatization. I'm sure your efforts are better spent complaining about Smash.

[Technohic]

correct me if i'm wrong but if the devs were really concerned about the the KD, perhaps they should have down something about the kd grenade, thats a hell of a lot worse than the 1.5 sec kd ops had...

 

Not enough QQ on those.

 

I think that might be the most concerning part about 2.7. It clearly is working at a whim in favor of what is whined about most. Baseless or not. It now sets everything up to believe that if you cry enough, you will get your way.

Edited February 17, 2014 by Technohic

[Solarenergy]

correct me if i'm wrong but if the devs were really concerned about the the KD, perhaps they should have down something about the kd grenade, thats a hell of a lot worse than the 1.5 sec kd ops had...

 

Exactly, it just goes to show their incompetence. All it really comes down to is people massively complaining about an ability. There is no real thought behind the nerfing, no real concern for gameplay, no true intent to make it better for everyone and more balanced. It's all just BW catering to a mass of imbeciles. This has happened time and again with so many patches, and 2.7 will just be the latest one. I don't have much hope left for this game, I just really hope they don't do to assassins the same thing they've done to operatives.

 

It seems to be a war on stealth though, because forums are often flooded with people complaining just having stealth is OP, which is absolutely ridiculous. Yet another example of people not understanding game mechanics and how a class is supposed to work. An assassin or operative without stealth is like a sniper without cover. Different classes have different abilities that are designed to work with that class and be played that way, but I digress. The main issue here is that I'm really sick of all the needless nerfs to classes in response to bad players who don't understand game mechanics crying about it to spineless devs.

[Raansu]

Oh please, no need for dramatization. I'm sure your efforts are better spent complaining about Smash.

 

Dramatization went out the window when BW decided that they are going to remove a keystone ability from scrappers. Like it or not, they are most likely going to do the same thing to assassins as everyone switches back to deceptions or the few scrappers that don't unsub finally give in and level an assassin.

 

The nerfs coming in 2.7 are way too heavy handed and if this is the future of balancing patches....God help you if you survived the nerf this patch because this **** is overkill.

[Sangrar]

Dramatization went out the window when BW decided that they are going to remove a keystone ability from scrappers. Like it or not, they are most likely going to do the same thing to assassins as everyone switches back to deceptions or the few scrappers that don't unsub finally give in and level an assassin.

 

The nerfs coming in 2.7 are way too heavy handed and if this is the future of balancing patches....God help you if you survived the nerf this patch because this **** is overkill.

 

speaking of assassin dps specs is anyone ever going to fix madness assassins spec? any word on that at all?

 

Just wondering, I ask about it and everytime the response is somewhere along the line of "don't do it man!!!"

[foxmob]

Give them nothing, and take from them..... EVERYTHING!

 

lol sooo close to the pirate code: take what you can. give nuthin' back!

[Helig]

Dramatization went out the window when BW decided that they are going to remove a keystone ability from scrappers. Like it or not, they are most likely going to do the same thing to assassins as everyone switches back to deceptions or the few scrappers that don't unsub finally give in and level an assassin.

 

The nerfs coming in 2.7 are way too heavy handed and if this is the future of balancing patches....God help you if you survived the nerf this patch because this **** is overkill.

Initial knockback is not a keystone ability of Scrappers. So it now roots instead of KDs. Yes, it's a nerf, but it's not a critical nerf. I'd be more worried if they just removed the KD and left it without any control factor whatsoever.

 

Fewer hard stuns in the game=good. Smash nerf is overkill. It basically becomes gimped Carnage. This is redesign.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Helig

[Missandei]

...the problem is that there are not much real Scrappers are left anyway.

Just look at this forum. There is basically no DPS operative community at all.

Most of the people who trying to defend the DPS operatives do not play the operative on regular basis.

 

so..

R.I.P DPS operatives.

You will pass lightly and painlessly.

[Raansu]

Initial knockback is not a keystone ability of Scrappers. So it now roots instead of KDs. Yes, it's a nerf, but it's not a critical nerf. I'd be more worried if they just removed the KD and left it without any control factor whatsoever.

 

Fewer hard stuns in the game=good. Smash nerf is overkill. It basically becomes gimped Carnage. This is redesign.

 

Spoken like someone who doesn't play a scrapper.

[Technohic]

Initial knockback is not a keystone ability of Scrappers. So it now roots instead of KDs. Yes, it's a nerf, but it's not a critical nerf. I'd be more worried if they just removed the KD and left it without any control factor whatsoever.

 

Fewer hard stuns in the game=good. Smash nerf is overkill. It basically becomes gimped Carnage. This is redesign.

 

That does effectively give them nothing. So long as someone can react with a knockback (they are for more than just throwing people off the bridge in VS or into the fire in HB you know) or a stun it suddenly becomes worse for the scoundrel who opened up than the person they targeted.

 

I know. they can use that awesome shield probe and face tank. That will work.

[Helig]

Spoken like someone who doesn't play a scrapper.

I play Concealment. Not as main, but I've enjoyed even the nerfed pre-2.6 version. Yes, this will increase kitability (hidden strike=>instant knockback). From solely Scrapper/Concealment point of view, yeah, undeniably a nerf. Still wouldn't call it a "keystone ability nerf". Will definitely impact gameplay, but won't change core. But, like with all other nerfs, bad players will keep complaining, and good players will adapt, just like they did after 1.2.

 

 

The greater picture is a little different though.

 

The fact that I play pretty much every class/spec there is at 55 helps me understand something that the Extra Credits gaming industry/developer blog has mentioned as far as designing game mechanics goes. A mechanic mustn't only be fun on the giving end, but on the receiving end, as well. Hard stun is the lowest form of CC on the fun-meter for both, giver and receiver. Hard stun doesn't give options, it takes away options, and that's why so many players hate this mechanic. A root, on the other hand, permits response - other than the 2-minute CC break cooldown, of course.

 

If that's the direction that BW is going - decreasing the number of hard CC in the game, this isn't a bad thing.

 

Addendum. You seem to be bent on martyring every class that you play. Before, it was Sentinels. Now it's Scoundrels. Playing SWToR must truly be a miserable time for you.

Edited February 18, 2014 by Helig

[Vodrin]

 

Fewer hard stuns in the game=good. Smash nerf is overkill. It basically becomes gimped Carnage. This is redesign.

 

While I agree that reducing the amount of hard CC in the game is good, and that the smash nerf was a bit excessive, smash still does not play much like carnage. You still have to be much more clever with combat/carnage to land your burst while focus/rage can land it's burst much more reliably, even if that burst is considerably lower.

[Shaggggy]

The problem is as soon as a Scoundre/Operative starts combat the victim will stun/knockback, move to a safe distance (ie more than 4m) and hand them their ****. Or, if you are melle, lay waste to them as they try to go toe 2 toe, which is NOT what the class is about

 

Removing the knockdown is gamebreaking for the class!!

[Master-Nala]

The problem is as soon as a Scoundre/Operative starts combat the victim will stun/knockback, move to a safe distance (ie more than 4m) and hand them their ****. Or, if you are melle, lay waste to them as they try to go toe 2 toe, which is NOT what the class is about

 

Removing the knockdown is gamebreaking for the class!!

 

They are taking away Dirty Kick? Tendon Blast?

 

Come on guys, losing one stun the length of a GCD doesn't cripple the class. This is mostly a fun factor loss, not a loss of functionality.

[Cordorian]

There is not a single ability in this game where it is fun to be on the receiving side... if you get perma slowed, it can be just as annoying (me making wanna respec focus), then stunlocked forever. but removing the knockdown and replacing it by a root makes jarring strike not worth picking anymore. I totally agree that there is too much cc flying around, but a class with very little survivability once they are out of stealth, and that can be kited quite needs some way to get a dirty little advantage.

Concealment cannot in realistic circumstances fight in the open. In clean fight you are gonna be target number one and definitely are no asset for your team. So far our safest bet was to pick lonely targets nail them unload the maximum burst potential and hope that after all cc was used we have them down far enough to win with fair means.

This will no longer be possible, since every class has means to immediately respond to the opener and stop our burst right at the onset (especially those classes that we meant to hard counter).

Thus the class will have to fight more in the open, which is not what it naturally was intended to.

 

In this sense it is game breaking for the spec. Especially since nothing was given back to compensate. I would get either some decent CDs or some way of mitigating damage better. But shield probe still is joke, even if will be on a lower CD now, probably will absorb a tad more, it is still the worst defensive CD in game.

 

Concealment Operative always wanted to be less reliant on stealth... in a way we got what we wanted... we are forced in clean fights more... fights we are still no made for.