[Video] Vengeance PvP

[Nightkin]

New movie Juggerbeast part 2 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paysPcR8pm0

 

 

 

Link to my post in the pvp forums http://www.swtor.com/community

 

/showthread.php?p=7209514#post7209514

 

Direct link to movie : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHH-eqRHezE

 

I would appreciate some helpful feedback on how to improve with this spec and this class, and what better place to come and ask for such things then here at the juggernaut mecka?

Edited March 2, 2014 by Nightkin

[Andrew_Past]

In PVP, you need to use ravage as soon as you use charge, if you have ravage up. This is to take maximum benefit of unstoppable and vindicator. After that, you should be using shatter and impale on cool down. Shatter should be priority over impale unless you expect the target to die from impale -> vicious throw -> force scream. This is because, on average, shatter will do more damage than impale, and if the target can't die soon, you'll need to use shatter anyways, and the sooner you shatter, the more damage it will do. Edited February 16, 2014 by Andrew_Past

[Luckeyduckey]

In PVP, you need to use ravage as soon as you use charge, if you have ravage up. This is to take maximum benefit of unstoppable and vindicator. After that, you should be using shatter and impale on cool down. Shatter should be priority over shatter unless you expect the target to die from impale -> vicious throw -> force scream. This is because, on average, shatter will do more damage than impale, and if the target can't die soon, you'll need to use shatter anyways, and the sooner you shatter, the more damage it will do.

 

You mean Shatter over impale, not shatter . And yeah, always use Ravage asap, otherwise you're going to get CC'd. Not even about the damage, really.

[Andrew_Past]

You mean Shatter over impale, not shatter . And yeah, always use Ravage asap, otherwise you're going to get CC'd. Not even about the damage, really.

 

lol, nice catch. GG not proof reading.

[Nightkin]

Hmm ok, i was under the impression that i should always impale-ravage-shatter-force scream- dat phat execute throw and then ravage again but maybe that was just the pve guide deluding me? Edited February 16, 2014 by Nightkin

[Andrew_Past]

Hmm ok, i was under the impression that i should always impale-ravage-shatter-force scream- dat phat execute throw and then ravage again but maybe that was just the pve guide deluding me?

 

Correct. In PVP, you want to get off as many full ravages as possible. This means using ravage while you are under the protection of unstoppable. Also, shatter is a higher priority than impale, unless the target is almost dead. Shatter does more damage than impale, albeit over time.

[Nightkin]

Correct. In PVP, you want to get off as many full ravages as possible. This means using ravage while you are under the protection of unstoppable. Also, shatter is a higher priority than impale, unless the target is almost dead. Shatter does more damage than impale, albeit over time.

I guess i havent been paying attention, shatter seems to crit around 5k and impale for 8k, the dots never really seemed to tick for very much so i assumed impale was better. But there you go, assuming stuff is bad and makes you a baddie if you dont listen to people x)

[Nightkin]

Link to my post in the pvp forums http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=7209514#post7209514

 

Direct link to movie : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gHH-eqRHezE

 

I would appreciate some helpful feedback on how to improve with this spec and this class, and what better place to come and ask for such things then here at the juggernaut mecka?

 

Updated for the new video, juggerbeast part 2!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paysPcR8pm0

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=722647

[Cempa]

Updated for the new video, juggerbeast part 2!

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paysPcR8pm0

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=722647

 

Have you played Carnage? Could you compare both for your play style?

[Tevzz]

Have you played Carnage? Could you compare both for your play style?

 

I play both and here's the short..VERY short summary.

 

Carnage: Hectic but efficient when you have gotten used to it

 

Vengeance: Gameplay is much much MUCH calmer than Carnage, at the sacrifice of Burst and mobility. Much better passive survivability and taunts make it quite useful too. It can be quite a pain in the *** when there's that Veng Jugg that just won't get off you.

Edited February 27, 2014 by Tevzz

[Cempa]

I play both and here's the short..VERY short summary.

 

Carnage: Hectic but efficient when you have gotten used to it

 

Vengeance: Gameplay is much much MUCH calmer than Carnage, at the sacrifice of Burst and mobility. Much better passive survivability and taunts make it quite useful too. It can be quite a pain in the *** when there's that Veng Jugg that just won't get off you.

 

Sounds like you know your stuff thanks...I think many here -myself included- would appreciate your guide on how to maximize Vengeance mitigation during PvP.

 

For example how do you use Enrage Defense? Do you plan ahead and pop Enduring Pain then Rage or not? The heal is 30% if you have a full rage bar. (that is 1.5%HP every sec if used on CD). How do you maximize Unstoppable up time? 20% dmg mitigation for 4sec translates to about 5% flat mitigation if you keep it up every 15sec.

[Tevzz]

Sounds like you know your stuff thanks...I think many here -myself included- would appreciate your guide on how to maximize Vengeance mitigation during PvP.

 

For example how do you use Enrage Defense? Do you plan ahead and pop Enduring Pain then Rage or not? The heal is 30% if you have a full rage bar. (that is 1.5%HP every sec if used on CD). How do you maximize Unstoppable up time? 20% dmg mitigation for 4sec translates to about 5% flat mitigation if you keep it up every 15sec.

 

I usually use Enraged Defense when being dotted or am getting focused or opened on by a stealthier (helps kill off 15% of their initial burst). Popping Enraged Defense when dotted is quite useful since you know that even if you stop getting attacked you'll still heal. I have to mention that it eats much more Rage than it looks. That's why I take Unyielding because popping Enraged Defense while stunned is quite helpful, and it gets 4 free rage from that stun! Usually when I pop Enraged Defense my DPS output drops unless I have Enrage and Sundering Assault, but then again, it has its ups and downs.

 

I usually pop Endure Pain then my medpack, then Intercede. I usually do this when I'm getting focused hardcore, since the HP gain is quite huge. The point of popping the medpack after Endure pain is to basically benefit from the fact that you have more Total HP, and thus get the medpack to heal you for more, same logic with intercede: 8% healing=more HP healed when you have more Total HP.

 

Now...try to ABUSE Intercede. It heals you, gets you out of melee range and reduces the dmg your allies take less damage. Due to the fact that you can leap to an ally way back, means that you can releap at an enemy! So basically, to maximize your Unstoppable uptime, feel free to Intercede->Force Charge back to the enemy, this heals you a bit and allows you to get that awesome immunity much more often. Another possible way is to try and strafe sideways away from your enemy until you can Charge back a them. But if they realize what you're trying to do, they probably won't let you. SO Intercede-.Charge is much more efficient for that.

 

A spec I sometimes run is this:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrRZcrrMbMsRrscz.3

 

It's a hybrid and you have 50% dmg reduction in full Obroan and in Soresu Form obviously...it's amazing in defensive terms, but lacks Unstoppable :S If you have a healer and you guard him and he heals you, it can work. But overall, I still prefer Full Vengeance by far. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask, I'll help as much as I can.

Edited March 2, 2014 by Tevzz

[Nightkin]

Questions ~

Hello! Im sorry i missed the posts in this thread but it seems you got some excellent answers from Tevzz! I consider myself somewhat of a newbie to the juggernaut as a class so i benefit from his words of wisdom aswell

[Nightkin]

Edited first post with the latest movie i posted, Juggerbeast part 2.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=paysPcR8pm0

[AssajiStarseed]

I usually use Enraged Defense when being dotted or am getting focused or opened on by a stealthier (helps kill off 15% of their initial burst). Popping Enraged Defense when dotted is quite useful since you know that even if you stop getting attacked you'll still heal. I have to mention that it eats much more Rage than it looks. That's why I take Unyielding because popping Enraged Defense while stunned is quite helpful, and it gets 4 free rage from that stun! Usually when I pop Enraged Defense my DPS output drops unless I have Enrage and Sundering Assault, but then again, it has its ups and downs.

 

I usually pop Endure Pain then my medpack, then Intercede. I usually do this when I'm getting focused hardcore, since the HP gain is quite huge. The point of popping the medpack after Endure pain is to basically benefit from the fact that you have more Total HP, and thus get the medpack to heal you for more, same logic with intercede: 8% healing=more HP healed when you have more Total HP.

 

Now...try to ABUSE Intercede. It heals you, gets you out of melee range and reduces the dmg your allies take less damage. Due to the fact that you can leap to an ally way back, means that you can releap at an enemy! So basically, to maximize your Unstoppable uptime, feel free to Intercede->Force Charge back to the enemy, this heals you a bit and allows you to get that awesome immunity much more often. Another possible way is to try and strafe sideways away from your enemy until you can Charge back a them. But if they realize what you're trying to do, they probably won't let you. SO Intercede-.Charge is much more efficient for that.

 

A spec I sometimes run is this:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrRZcrrMbMsRrscz.3

 

It's a hybrid and you have 50% dmg reduction in full Obroan and in Soresu Form obviously...it's amazing in defensive terms, but lacks Unstoppable :S If you have a healer and you guard him and he heals you, it can work. But overall, I still prefer Full Vengeance by far. If you have anymore questions feel free to ask, I'll help as much as I can.

 

Tev can you post your full veng spec? Also what's this everyone saying about 46 blues being bis and so on? If anyone could elaborate on this.

Edited March 3, 2014 by AssajiStarseed

[Nightkin]

46 blue mods for offhand (generator) gives a bonus that is comparable or stronger then obroan. But its "being investigated" by BW so it might very well be changed back to obroan for BiS. Dont use 46 mods for mainhand, your white dmg plummets and gets horribly bad. Only dps sorcs and healers benefit from using 46's in both main and offhand as far as i know.

 

I strongly suggest this spec for full veng http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZcRrRMMcRrfczZcM0z.3

The strong point is the extra 7,5% crit for vicious throw, wich is your big hitter and it gets refreshed quite a lot in veng spec.

[AssajiStarseed]

Hmm alright, thanks Night, do you use any 46 blues?

[Nightkin]

Hmm alright, thanks Night, do you use any 46 blues?

Yes in my offhand generator, since i dont have Obroan on my jug yet.

 

I just realised my linked spec is wrong, i dont take Battle Cry from rage spec at all x(

Edited March 3, 2014 by Nightkin

[Tevzz]

Tev can you post your full veng spec? Also what's this everyone saying about 46 blues being bis and so on? If anyone could elaborate on this.

 

There goes my Full DPS spec:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MZcRrRrMcRrfczZf00z.3

 

Some people might say that taking more accuracy is better, but at 92% I find that I'm perfectly fine. I also took Pooled Hatred and ditched Enraged Sunder because with the new Changes Rage Management is significantly easier, and Pooled Hatred stacks are acquired much faster than you think, and you'll pretty much only spend them on Impale so a dmg boost to that is always welcome. I went all the way up to Brutality in the rage tree for the reason that a 7.5% crit change on Vicious Throw is quite considerable, especially seeing how you can use it before execute phase! The 6% Force Crit Chance applies to DoTs also...and just with the class buffs and my standard gear I'm at around 24-25% crit, so that brings my DoT crit chance to 30-31%, which is quite decent.

 

Many people use this tree because its tankier:

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RMoZcGrRrMcRrfcz.3

 

I personally find it not that worth it seeing how you barely gain any dmg reduction.

 

The next one, on the other hand, which I use sometimes, is completely different. In Soresu form you have 50% dmg reduction as well as the ability to guard...you do lose Unstoppable, but with a decent healer, you can easily replace a tank and you'll have much more DMG output.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrRZcrrMbMcRrfcz.3

[CJSBOSOX]

The next one, on the other hand, which I use sometimes, is completely different. In Soresu form you have 50% dmg reduction as well as the ability to guard...you do lose Unstoppable, but with a decent healer, you can easily replace a tank and you'll have much more DMG output.

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101RrRZcrrMbMcRrfcz.3

 

Do you run this wearing DPS or Tank gear?

[Tevzz]

Do you run this wearing DPS or Tank gear?

 

Full DPS gear and I still ding 50% dmg reduction. I mean I lose 12% dmg on all melee attacks and 6% on force dmg (that's what Shien form basically grants you with single saber mastery, along with the movement speed and Rage Refunding) but meh, a 15% increase in dmg reduction along with the ability to guard makes up for that. Although I usually don't play this spec without knowing before-hand that good healers are lurking around the warzones. Unstoppable is a big factor in Vengeance, as without it we're quite easy to kite, so I usually prefer to go full Vengeance nevertheless.

Edited March 4, 2014 by Tevzz

[BlobbMonster]

46 blue mods for offhand (generator) gives a bonus that is comparable or stronger then obroan. But its "being investigated" by BW so it might very well be changed back to obroan for BiS. Dont use 46 mods for mainhand, your white dmg plummets and gets horribly bad. Only dps sorcs and healers benefit from using 46's in both main and offhand as far as i know.

 

I strongly suggest this spec for full veng http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#101MMZcRrRMMcRrfczZcM0z.3

The strong point is the extra 7,5% crit for vicious throw, wich is your big hitter and it gets refreshed quite a lot in veng spec.

 

What mods do you use in MH?

[Nightkin]

What mods do you use in MH?

the 69/63/61 combo, but for 2.7 that wont be viable anymore.

[darksidefi]

I never understood the point of these videos. Not trying to be confrontational here but I mean, it's obvious you're running with a dedicated healer so you're just leaping from target to target, recklessly wading through AoE and generally just pressing buttons and watching numbers pop up. It's just moving pictures with a soundtrack.

 

Again, I'm not attacking this youtuber specifically. Just in general, I've never seen a skill play worth mentioning in any of these mashup videos. Can someone explain to me what the point is? If it's for newer players to learn rotations or see other players in action, they'd be better served going on twitch and watching some ranked footage on there where you can see the losses as well as the wins and be able to analyze what the person did right or wrong.

 

Just my two cents. As far as these types of videos go, I guess yours is a good one? I gave it a thumbs up.

Edited March 8, 2014 by darksidefi

[Nightkin]

I never understood the point of these videos. Not trying to be confrontational here but I mean, it's obvious you're running with a dedicated healer so you're just leaping from target to target, recklessly wading through AoE and generally just pressing buttons and watching numbers pop up. It's just moving pictures with a soundtrack.

 

Again, I'm not attacking this youtuber specifically. Just in general, I've never seen a skill play worth mentioning in any of these mashup videos. Can someone explain to me what the point is? If it's for newer players to learn rotations or see other players in action, they'd be better served going on twitch and watching some ranked footage on there where you can see the losses as well as the wins and be able to analyze what the person did right or wrong.

 

Just my two cents. As far as these types of videos go, I guess yours is a good one? I gave it a thumbs up.

 

To glorify my persona ofc you jealous little...&%¤#

/joke but tbh, i find it really fun to make them. Up to you if you wanna watch them or not. And, for me it was an important step in my pvp skill development, to see what tricks you can use. And when to use them, why use them, against what? Positioning, taunts? For a new player any such video is a wealth of information, as long as the video isnt of someone with really subpar skill...