Sarafain Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Having to use none would mean that you could just keep going. Making force management far too redundant. From a sniper stand point, minus engineering as I've never played it, there is no Resource/Force management. You go through your rotation without needing to use the basic attack. I didn't mention Mara/Sent as there resource doesn't work the same way. Yes, it's still build resources/spend resources but Assassins, Snipers and BH have a passive regen, Mara/Sent have to charge up their resource. I like the energy resource currently in play forDecep/Infil, and agree energy resource management should be a DPS concern. I was just comparing Asassins/Shadow to other classes where resource management isn't a concern unless they make a major mistake in rotation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarafain Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) I can keep throwing facts at theise people on an endless basis, they won't change their mind anyway. Anyways, I'm pretty sure I was clear enough. If you don't think so, let me know what needs elaboration. It's hard to post facts to oppose anothers view and "be nice". I don't take your posts to be unconstructive, the last could posts were on me for not clairifying it was - in comparison - to other classes we're not as good as opposed to - it's bad - Edited February 18, 2014 by Sarafain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Xinika Posted February 18, 2014 Author Share Posted February 18, 2014 I can keep throwing facts at theise people on an endless basis, they won't change their mind anyway. Anyways, I'm pretty sure I was clear enough. If you don't think so, let me know what needs elaboration. The post I made was directed to the general audience. Everyone should keep in mind how others may respond to your post, even if your point is not necessarily antagonistic, it may come across that way to others. I'm trying to keep this thread progressive. I've seen some disagreements from posters, and when I check why, the substance is lacking beyond just "No" or "Yes". That makes it difficult to scoop anything useful beyond their subjective opinion. (Which could be right or wrong) --------------------------------------------- Something else we might be able to handle in our questions is the debuff/buff tracking issue, specifically in the Madness question (as no matter how this gets organized, Madness seems like it will get an entire question at least). As a side note, as well, it may be prudent to mention the increase to 15 seconds uptime on Dark Protection, as a lot of people have mentioned it. The Dark Protection area was intended to fall under QoL improvements, as I find it not to be a dramatic issue in comparison to some of the more glaring ones. The other issue I've been noticing is Phase Walk's PvE viability, which again, makes it a serious contender for the Wildcard spot. I should also mention, there will be a 'feedback' area, where we address some of the minor issues such as Darkness' QoL or even Resilience's broken state. These will not be as long as the actual questions but just purely feedback related. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ottoattack Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 (edited) Majority of my experience is PvP tanking, I do occasional tanking in PvE as well. I also play deception, but not as much. Darkness: I think the tank is spot on, except harnessed darkness in PvP. I feel there is too much emphasis of having to use it every 12 secs, which is fine in PvE, in PvP this is very restrictive. I always feel there is little room to do anything else, or you can get CCed during last 2-3 secs of it making it fall off. Adding 3 secs so it lasts 15 secs will be nice. I know this is too forgiving for PvE, but if it is not supposed to fall off, then let make it hard to fall off. Madness: I am not an expert in madness but I can tell you that this spec is a complete joke. No burst, no survivability. Heck, even the overall damage is not good. It is also parsing poorly in PvE. The spec needs to be taken to the drawing board ato get redesigned. Deception: The spec performing very well in PvP and very poorly in PvE. IMO the spec could lose a bit of burst in favor of a good chunk of upgrade in sustain. IMO this will make them better in both PvE and PvP. Surging charge, voltaic slash and shock are prime candidates for slight buff and maul and discharge for slight nerf. Some other minor issues: Phase walk viability in PvE outside darkness is limited. Deception has force issues in PvE. Not drastic, but noticeable. Edited February 18, 2014 by Ottoattack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarafain Posted February 18, 2014 Share Posted February 18, 2014 Phase walk is a terrible ablility. Even in PvP you have to place it in a good spot, then you have to have a need to go to that same spot within a minute. Not useless in PvP and it's probably awesome when it actually comes into play but for the most part meh. And the kicker is there's a cast time on it. You're right to say only Darkness PvE gets any use out of the ability, but it's not even the abilities itself but the healer buff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XORDYH Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 I should also mention, there will be a 'feedback' area, where we address some of the minor issues such as Darkness' QoL or even Resilience's broken state. These will not be as long as the actual questions but just purely feedback related. This feedback area should mention the current imbalance between the Deception and Infiltration skill trees (ref. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=713581). Bugs like that should be addressed as a priority as soon as they are revealed, and not require "wasting" one of our questions to draw attention to. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aelanis Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 This feedback area should mention the current imbalance between the Deception and Infiltration skill trees (ref. http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=713581). Bugs like that should be addressed as a priority as soon as they are revealed, and not require "wasting" one of our questions to draw attention to. This. Very much this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Leafy_Bug Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 3 pages in the Shadow thread, 14 pages here. What sorcery is this?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 3 pages in the Shadow thread, 14 pages here. What sorcery is this?? Shadow one links to this one. And its less confusing to stick to 1 thread Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarafain Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 How helpful would it be if Darkness had a talent to lower the CD of Force Cloak, or allowed Blackout apply the 4 stacks of dark protection. I don't know how long PT's damage reduction lasts but Juggs is 20 seconds. An increased duration or a 2nd quick way to get 4 stacks would be a nice QoL change Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maudril Posted February 19, 2014 Share Posted February 19, 2014 3 pages in the Shadow thread, 14 pages here. What sorcery is this?? Assassins are cooler. Especially as far as Balance VS Madness Only thing I like more about a Shadow spec than an Assassin spec is your roundhouse kick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WooduckAUS Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Point is, Madness' is missing that *key* damage, that *key* flavor and that *key* burst. Best way to fix all three? Why not bring back Maul? Those magic words EVERY balance/madness shadow/assassin has been waiting to hear..... BRING BACK MAUL!! /vote +1 Yours truly, Happy Shadow. Now to finish the next 15 pages of this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simmerr Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Those magic words EVERY balance/madness shadow/assassin has been waiting to hear..... BRING BACK MAUL!! /vote +1 Yours truly, Happy Shadow. Now to finish the next 15 pages of this. this this this give me more of a reason to skirt between 10m and 4m during my rotation Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KadenTau Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Am I the only one that can successfully weave in Low Slash for Maul procs without too many force issues? I wasn't aware that was a thing. Is it a loss of DPS to use it? Also shock doesn't always give stacks for surging charge. It should. If it says it does, it isn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keimox Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 One thing about chain-shock. How about change it like if u crit shock chain-shock is autocrit and if don't crit shock then chain-shock is non-crit. Now RNG rolls separately for shock and chain-shock. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Am I the only one that can successfully weave in Low Slash for Maul procs without too many force issues? I wasn't aware that was a thing. Is it a loss of DPS to use it? Also shock doesn't always give stacks for surging charge. It should. If it says it does, it isn't. It costs more to low slash only for a maul proc than that it costs just to maul without proc lol. Never LS only for maul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DarthSpekulatius Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Those magic words EVERY balance/madness shadow/assassin has been waiting to hear..... BRING BACK MAUL!! /vote +1 Yours truly, Happy Shadow. Now to finish the next 15 pages of this. maul wasn't the only thing that got taken away with 2.0 I'm not to crazy about unearthed knowlage but Sharpened Mind was so much more fun then the ripple and better for AOE too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarafain Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Evo the force cost is the same now with the changes. LS 30, Maul with proc 10 to Maul without proc 40. Point still remains though why use low slash just for proc in PvP I'm still not for the making low slash part of the rotation. Another reason is that you can only have 1 Duplicity proc up at a time so if you have a LS Duplicity then you may delay the proc. Having them stack would be WAY to OP for PvP. Shock/Project has a 50% chance per stack of Voltage/Clairvoyance to gain a Static Charge/Shadow Technique. If the stack falls off you're not getting one, and obviously 50/50 you get one with only 1 stack. IMO it's another keep this up buff we could do without. Edited February 20, 2014 by Sarafain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KadenTau Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 It costs more to low slash only for a maul proc than that it costs just to maul without proc lol. Never LS only for maul. Really? I guess I'll reparse and see what I pull. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Evo the force cost is the same now with the changes. LS 30, Maul with proc 10 to Maul without proc 40. Point still remains though why use low slash just for proc in PvP Well even if it is still the same cost.. you're wasting 1 GCD on thin air. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KadenTau Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 I'm still not for the making low slash part of the rotation. Another reason is that you can only have 1 Duplicity proc up at a time so if you have a LS Duplicity then you may delay the proc. Aren't they separate? You can Get a proc -> maul -> LS -> maul again. That's what I do for PvE at least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Evolixe Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Really? I guess I'll reparse and see what I pull. Parse? http://www.torparse.com/a/588678/1/0/Damage+Dealt Not using low slash or spinning kick(spike) at all. And if i'm not mistaken that's the second highest infiltration parse ever done after Mknightrider's. Aren't they separate? You can Get a proc -> maul -> LS -> maul again. That's what I do for PvE at least. You shouldn't. Edited February 20, 2014 by Evolixe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KadenTau Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 Parse? http://www.torparse.com/a/588678/1/0/Damage+Dealt Not using low slash or spinning kick(spike) at all. And if i'm not mistaken that's the second highest infiltration parse ever done after Mknightrider's. You shouldn't. Got it. Low slash: omitted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarafain Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 (edited) Aren't they separate? You can Get a proc -> maul -> LS -> maul again. That's what I do for PvE at least. During fights with increased damage phases I use Low Slashed, Maul and have had that Maul proc duplicity; It's unfortunately starts involving more RNG. 2 things to cause the same buff is a bad design. Evo in your parse are you using full 78's with 30% crit? *Edit - I was looking over the parse and it has you with 84 Shadow Technique attacks. I thought that this has a ICD was 4.5 seconds but I guess it means the 4.5 inlcudes the GCD where you use it. 24 seconds you could have had a proc or 8 more possible procs. Edited February 20, 2014 by Sarafain Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ChroniKill Posted February 20, 2014 Share Posted February 20, 2014 For the DPS specs, why not give phase walk a similar sort of buff to Darkness? Perhaps for Deception add in a 5% crit chance boost and for Madness a 5% power boost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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